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Source says Panthers will take Huberdeau if Nugent Hopkins is gone

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Old
06-16-2011, 10:06 PM
  #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oiler182 View Post
Where did gubranson play last year? Must be a hell of a player to not trade a #1 straight across for him. The only guy on our team I wouldn't do that for is taylor hall and i didn't think gubranson was in the same category as hall.....
He was a top 3 pick last year and improved over the expectations and shows to be a future captain. He shows offensive potential now to go with his defensive ability we already knew about. He will be a hell of a player and just as good as what anyone in this draft becomes. Once again no I wouldnt do your trade offer (which we have a fantasy trade thread for that stuff).

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06-17-2011, 12:48 AM
  #127
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I had a lot of respect for RR... until this thread...

I could not disagree with you more.

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06-17-2011, 02:21 AM
  #128
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Originally Posted by RainingRats View Post
haha, terrible dissection. Take a look at the #1 forward in every draft for the past ten years. They're much more sure things than any other forward taken in the draft. They're pretty much a sure thing. What Skinner and Fowler did this season was impressive but one season doesn't make a player. No, RNH is definitely the best forward in the draft. Pretty much all the scouts agree, some don't but this isn't an exact science.
So if there is a draft completely devoid of talent and the #1 prospect is a Connor Brickley equivalent - you'd trade your soul for him because "the #1 forward in the draft the last 10 years" has been a stud? terrible logic. RNH is a damn good player, but he's not taylor hall, or even what tavares was at this level.

matt duchense is looking pretty good right now at #3 isnt he?

try again.

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Repik and Bergfors will probably not even be on the team. I don't know why you don't understand that. They both need top 6 spots or they're useless. Repik is facing the same situation as Grabner and if he gets waived he'll get picked up. Edmonton wouldn't want both anyway.
I didn't mention Bergfors - because I agree he is of little value. But Repik is still a prospect - and while he may never become a contributor for the Panthers (now or ever) - he is still a young promising player with value.

Part of being a GM is being able to value your assets and get the most out of them. Something you clearly have absolutely no clue about. If Repik isn't in our plans - trade him for something that could be. Whether it be a pick, other prospect or player. But don't just give him away because "he wont be on the roster next year"

Again - terrible.

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Ellerby is a 50/50 shot at being an NHL regular. He's at best a #4 d-man. He can be replaced.
Ellerby has a 100% chance to be an NHL regular - because he is one already. He has a 1-way contract. At 22 years old. He's an NHL regular.

I see Ellerby as a #3-4 defensman. We can sit here and argue it till we're blue in the face - but the fact is - he's another young, valuable asset that you're giving away for nothing.

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I'm not high on Bjugstad. Like MR said, it's subjective. I don't think he has the ability to be a #1 center. I think Shore is much more likely to be our #1 center than NB.
OK - but again - he's a good young prospect. One you're getting $0.20 on the dollar for.

Terrible. Asset. Management.

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Fine, don't look at Olesz and other Panthers. The current regime doesn't matter. It's the simple fact that's it's hard to make it in the NHL. Look at all the first rounds from the past decade. Or look at HF prospect rankings from years past. RNH is more of a sure thing as that dynamic offensive talent than anyone else. We need that desperately.
Agreed - but there's no guarantee RNH turns out to be the best player in the draft. I'm not about to mortgage our entire farm system for a maybe.

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If Howden, Bjugstad, and Gudbranson all make the NHL as regulars it will be amazing. Of the three, I think Bjugstad is the least likely to be an impact player. Feel to disagree. As I said, I like Shore more. We have ridiculous prospect depth.
Irrelevant.

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You have to overpay to get the #1 pick. It has a ton of value. There's a reason why we want to tank badly and win the draft lottery. All of a sudden the #1 pick doesn't have a ton of value? haha
I didn't want to tank - so speak for yourself. And this is why. Unless there's a Crosby/Ovechkin - it's not worth tanking. And this year - there isn't. Next year it may be worth it. Nail Yakupov is...uhhh....pretty good.

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The difference between me and you is that I'm realistic. To get the best player in this draft you have to overpay. I'm overpaying slightly/maybe but it isn't outrageous. I'd rather have RNH than #3 and Bjugstad. Repik, Ellerby, and Bergfors are all replaceable and two of three may not even be on the team at opening night. We could get what for Repik? A third round pick? Maybe, but unlikey. Because precious Bergfors was traded with Rissmiller(no value) for Dvorak and a fifth round pick. So between the two they might be worth a fifth and a fourth, maybe. We have an outrageously deep prospect pool and it will get even deeper this year. Aggressive moves like this make this team more likely to be better sooner.
The difference between you and I is that you would run the team into the ground within 5 years. Our team would have RNH and no farm system or depth to speak of within a few years. My team would have Huberdeau and 5 other quality assets.

And no - your argument isn't a good one just because you say it is. So please stop saying that.

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Glad you're not a hockey analyst, you're awful at it.

i agree - i'm a terrible speaker. would be awful on TV. judging by these last two posts alone - i'd be a much better general manager than you would, that's for damn sure.


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Old
06-17-2011, 05:05 AM
  #129
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@RainingRats; the basic summary of the argument against you is that your simply giving up WAAAAY to much. If we really wanted to acquire the 1st overall, we wouldnt have to give up as much as you are saying.

I think most Panther fans would really like to be able to draft RNH just like you, but the thing is it wouldnt cost Bjugstad and 4 other roster players. Its a huge overpayment.

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06-17-2011, 07:07 AM
  #130
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I understand the desire to be bold at the draft. But, sometimes it is best to be patient and see what player falls to you. Sitting at number 3 is a fine place to be in this draft. Although the Oilers likely take RNH, they could also easily go Larsson. The Avs, who are stacked at center, could go pass on him as well. Maybe, Huberdeau goes first and Larsson second. Who knows?

I also expect that, regardless who goes at 1 and 2, there will be a lot of trade interest in the No. 3 pick, including interest by cap strapped teams. What if the Flyers, for example, offered Carter and Versteeg? Likely won't happen, but the point is that one team's overpayment is another teams cap management.

As is obvious, my advice is to be patient, have exploratory pre-draft conversations with potential trading partners, go on the clock and then either make your pick or trade it.

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06-17-2011, 07:11 AM
  #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brtriad View Post
If I know Tallon, he'll take Couturier twice before he takes Huberdeau.
This ! Thank you for stoping by our board, man !

On Huberdeau, he played center when he was 16... Then got a promotion to the first-line in the playoffs to play WING with Mike Hoffman and Mike Kirkpatrick (SJ regular season scoring-leaders), where he putted on his show !

The next year, he is a winger to Zack Phillips who doesn't project as a center with the pros because he doesn't have the foot-speed. He is still a better center at the junior-level than Huberdeau. That's a red-flag to me, and once again people not seeing that Huberdeau is a winger and will be a winger, it's a big problem !

On RR... Yeah, you lost it there my friend. Just admit you failed and move on... You won't be a GM, but you can still be a great fan !

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06-17-2011, 09:29 AM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Gudbransson4Prez View Post
I had a lot of respect for RR... until this thread...

I could not disagree with you more.
It's fine to disagree with me. I think RNH is going to be a great player. I'm not that high on Bjugstad(hope I'm completely wrong) so I don't think it's a big deal. The SUBJECTIVE evaluation of him is where myself and pretty much everyone else disagree. Odds are, based on history, I'm right about Bjugstad

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Old
06-17-2011, 09:33 AM
  #133
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Originally Posted by RainingRats View Post
It's fine to disagree with me. I think RNH is going to be a great player. I'm not that high on Bjugstad(hope I'm completely wrong) so I don't think it's a big deal. The SUBJECTIVE evaluation of him is where myself and pretty much everyone else disagree. Odds are, based on history, I'm right about Bjugstad
And odds are, based on history, Oilers won't trade their pick and we won't trade up two spots for that kind of package !

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06-17-2011, 09:40 AM
  #134
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Originally Posted by flapanthersfan View Post
So if there is a draft completely devoid of talent and the #1 prospect is a Connor Brickley equivalent - you'd trade your soul for him because "the #1 forward in the draft the last 10 years" has been a stud? terrible logic. RNH is a damn good player, but he's not taylor hall, or even what tavares was at this level.

matt duchense is looking pretty good right now at #3 isnt he?

try again.



I didn't mention Bergfors - because I agree he is of little value. But Repik is still a prospect - and while he may never become a contributor for the Panthers (now or ever) - he is still a young promising player with value.

Part of being a GM is being able to value your assets and get the most out of them. Something you clearly have absolutely no clue about. If Repik isn't in our plans - trade him for something that could be. Whether it be a pick, other prospect or player. But don't just give him away because "he wont be on the roster next year"

Again - terrible.



Ellerby has a 100% chance to be an NHL regular - because he is one already. He has a 1-way contract. At 22 years old. He's an NHL regular.

I see Ellerby as a #3-4 defensman. We can sit here and argue it till we're blue in the face - but the fact is - he's another young, valuable asset that you're giving away for nothing.



OK - but again - he's a good young prospect. One you're getting $0.20 on the dollar for.

Terrible. Asset. Management.



Agreed - but there's no guarantee RNH turns out to be the best player in the draft. I'm not about to mortgage our entire farm system for a maybe.



Irrelevant.



I didn't want to tank - so speak for yourself. And this is why. Unless there's a Crosby/Ovechkin - it's not worth tanking. And this year - there isn't. Next year it may be worth it. Nail Yakupov is...uhhh....pretty good.



The difference between you and I is that you would run the team into the ground within 5 years. Our team would have RNH and no farm system or depth to speak of within a few years. My team would have Huberdeau and 5 other quality assets.

And no - your argument isn't a good one just because you say it is. So please stop saying that.




i agree - i'm a terrible speaker. would be awful on TV. judging by these last two posts alone - i'd be a much better general manager than you would, that's for damn sure.

Your Connor Brickely example makes no sense. Everyone thinks RNH is going to be a stud. You're applying good logic to a self serving example.


I was high on Repik but I think he lacks the confidence and that necessary scoring touch to be effective in the NHL. He's useless outside the top 6.

Again, it isn't terrible asset management. Bergfors is worth more than Repik. That's undeniable.

No, my whole philosophy has been to build through the draft and acquire as many picks and prospects as possible. I created a thread two years ago, (last place is the only way to save this franchise touting how important a top pick is) With our ridiculous prospect depth we're only giving up Bjugstad and Ellerby (who I think a lot of people would agree he could very well not be in the NHL the year after this). We're taking a risk but with risk comes reward.

Keep in mind, Huberdeau may not even be there at #3. So we risk losing out on the top two forwards. We haven't been fortunate to get a guy like Duchene at #3. Heck, we might even trade down if they're both gone when our pick comes up. We missed out last year on one of the two top forwards and I don't want to miss it again. If we don't get high end offensive talent soon we're going to be in for a longer and possibly less successful rebuild. The best way to build a perennial winner is by getting high end offensive talent through draft.

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Old
06-17-2011, 09:41 AM
  #135
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Originally Posted by BabyJagrov View Post
And odds are, based on history, Oilers won't trade their pick and we won't trade up two spots for that kind of package !
Okay. I never said it would happen. I'm just throwing making conversation. Nothing we say here matters.

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06-17-2011, 09:43 AM
  #136
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Originally Posted by jakethesnake23 View Post
@RainingRats; the basic summary of the argument against you is that your simply giving up WAAAAY to much. If we really wanted to acquire the 1st overall, we wouldnt have to give up as much as you are saying.

I think most Panther fans would really like to be able to draft RNH just like you, but the thing is it wouldnt cost Bjugstad and 4 other roster players. Its a huge overpayment.
I think we have to overpay to get the #1 pick. This is maybe/slight overpayment.

Bergfors and Repik are not roster players. Ellerby is barely a roster player.

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06-17-2011, 09:55 AM
  #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RainingRats View Post
I think we have to overpay to get the #1 pick. This is maybe/slight overpayment.

Bergfors and Repik are not roster players. Ellerby is barely a roster player.
Ellerby IS an NHL player, not just barely. He showed improvement from his first season with the Panthers, and once he got acclimated to the game and the system, he was a mainstay on the team. There is absolutely nothing wrong with having Ellerby as a top six Dman on this team.

Your proposal is not "slight" overpayment. There is not that big of a difference between RNH, and the other top forwards in this draft. And there certainly isnt that big of a difference where we would need to include Bjugstad, the 3rd overall, AND more to jump two spots. This team would be better off having Bjugstad, Ellerby, and one of Couturier, Landeskog, or Huberdeau, than just Hopkins. He is not elite enough to warrant such a loss of depth.

And who is to say that Bergfors and/or Repik wont be successful under Dineed, where they will get fair shots to prove their skill. Bringing in a new coach is pretty much the same thing as these players being traded, because now they have to go through the beginning just like any other player on this team.

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06-17-2011, 10:08 AM
  #138
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Originally Posted by pb1300 View Post
Ellerby IS an NHL player, not just barely. He showed improvement from his first season with the Panthers, and once he got acclimated to the game and the system, he was a mainstay on the team. There is absolutely nothing wrong with having Ellerby as a top six Dman on this team.

Your proposal is not "slight" overpayment. There is not that big of a difference between RNH, and the other top forwards in this draft. And there certainly isnt that big of a difference where we would need to include Bjugstad, the 3rd overall, AND more to jump two spots. This team would be better off having Bjugstad, Ellerby, and one of Couturier, Landeskog, or Huberdeau, than just Hopkins. He is not elite enough to warrant such a loss of depth.

And who is to say that Bergfors and/or Repik wont be successful under Dineed, where they will get fair shots to prove their skill. Bringing in a new coach is pretty much the same thing as these players being traded, because now they have to go through the beginning just like any other player on this team.
Player value is completely subjective. I don't know why my opinion is definitely wrong and everyone else is correct. No, I believe RNH has the highest ceiling and is the most likely to achieve it. Hub has more risk. Scouts agree with that.

I want Ellerby to be a top 6 d-man but he hasn't shown enough to be a regular NHL contributor. Like I said, this could be his last shot at playing in the NHL. There were times when he looked ready to make the leap as a d-man and then there were times when he looked completely out of place. He had an awful streak of major turnover after turnover.

There's virtually no chance both Bergfors and Repik are on the team. They need top 6 roles and we're screwed if both of them take up 1/3 of the top 6. One of them could do well but I'm afraid their best days are behind them as Panthers.

The problem with Bergfors is that we'll have to sign him if he wants a chance under Dineen and the problem with Repik is that he'll be in the same situation as Grabner was. We could potentially lose him for nothing if he doesn't make the team.


Last edited by RainingRats: 06-17-2011 at 10:16 AM.
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Old
06-17-2011, 10:21 AM
  #139
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I respect RR for sticking to his guns. I may not agree with his opinion, but a few years from now he may look like a genius. Life is funny that way.

I think both sides of this argument have said all that they wanted to say. The next step in this process involves flaming and infractions which I'm not in the mood for. Let's move along, shall we?

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06-17-2011, 10:37 AM
  #140
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Originally Posted by RainingRats View Post
Player value is completely subjective. I don't know why my opinion is definitely wrong and everyone else is correct. No, I believe RNH has the highest ceiling and is the most likely to achieve it. Hub has more risk. Scouts agree with that.

I want Ellerby to be a top 6 d-man but he hasn't shown enough to be a regular NHL contributor. Like I said, this could be his last shot at playing in the NHL. There were times when he looked ready to make the leap as a d-man and then there were times when he looked completely out of place. He had an awful streak of major turnover after turnover.

There's virtually no chance both Bergfors and Repik are on the team. They need top 6 roles and we're screwed if both of them take up 1/3 of the top 6. One of them could do well but I'm afraid their best days are behind them as Panthers.

The problem with Bergfors is that we'll have to sign him if he wants a chance under Dineen and the problem with Repik is that he'll be in the same situation as Grabner was. We could potentially lose him for nothing if he doesn't make the team.
Yep... And you seems to want Huberdeau and think we could lose on the top-two forwards of this draft, yet most scouts still have Landeskog right behind RNH ! Hey some scouts even have Landeskog for number one.

For Ellerby, it won't be his last shot at the NHL. Man, where is your thinking there ? It will probably be his best (and maybe last) to make it as a Panthers, but his last opportunity in the League ? It is his first one way contract, and his first contract after the entry-level one... Cool down a bit here ! Just because he had a bad stretch in his first big test with the pros doesn't mean he won't be an NHLer. The kid has done everything we asked out of him since being drafted. And with Tallon wanting Keaton in his top-6 next year, I'm pretty sure Ellerby will put a lot of hard-work in the summer to establish himself.

Agree on Repik and Bergfors... But you missed something here, Repik is a RFA too. I want Bergfors to get another chance with us, not so much for Repik.

If we were to trade all those assets you listed for RNH separately, we could get another first-rounder and a boatload of other picks ! And still get a chance at Huberdeau, Couturier or Landeskog... Once again bad assets management ! Like you said, and I agree with you, those aren't vital pieces and may not be a part of the future. But packaging all of them just for the sake of overpaying is wrong.

I know you only brought it for the sake of discussing it ! But when the value is ridiculous, be prepared to handle the flames or to admit you were off. Nobody here is getting on you because you aren't high on Bjugstad, or because your opinion on Ellerby is kind of extreme, or because you want Repik and Bergfors out !

We're getting on you because it's insane to think like that. RNH isn't head-and-shoulders above the competition in his draft-year like previous first overall picks like Stamkos, Tavares or Hall were.

Edit: Didn't saw your post angry, but since I'm not flaming or anything, so I won't delete. Feel free if you don't accept with my opinion.

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06-17-2011, 10:53 AM
  #141
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06-17-2011, 10:54 AM
  #142
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I agree.

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