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Habs don't need 4th line goons...

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Old
06-17-2011, 08:44 AM
  #76
MathMan
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
5'9" skill players also I guess, most of their forwards are small.
Just like the Flyers'. But that never gets any hype.

Skill players are, after all, completely useless, especially in the playoffs. Everyone knows that.

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You know what's boring? When you lose 3-1 in the middle of the 2nd period and the other team is still playing the agressor because nobody on our ******** team can create other a spark other then diving on the ice and hoping for a pp chance, that's boring!
Montreal is extremely aggressive when playing from behind, at least in terms of controlling the puck and, you know, playing hockey. They dominate possession and chances when the other team has a lead, and more than most other teams do, too.

Still couldn't buy a goal, but it wasn't for lack of trying.

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06-17-2011, 09:01 AM
  #77
Joe Cole
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If you cannot tell the difference between big and physical players and goons, well...

It is a clear as day that there is a difference, and people who use the big=goon equation are either not very smart or are just being dishonest in order to advance their view of pond hockey.

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06-17-2011, 09:55 AM
  #78
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Do we really need some guy 6'8'', called something like Mongo, who eats young children for breakfast and wrestles grizzly bears for fun? Keep him chained up on the bench and let him loose when things get rough. "Git 'im, Mongo, git 'im! Ksk, Ksk!". Do we really want that?

I vote yes, for nothing other than entertainment value.

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06-17-2011, 10:00 AM
  #79
Blind Gardien
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Originally Posted by Gros Bill View Post
Do we really need some guy 6'8'', called something like Mongo, who eats young children for breakfast and wrestles grizzly bears for fun? Keep him chained up on the bench and let him loose when things get rough. "Git 'im, Mongo, git 'im! Ksk, Ksk!". Do we really want that?

I vote yes, for nothing other than entertainment value.
If he's chained on the bench most of the time... well, how chained? Could he perchance eat Jacques Martin by mistake during a lengthy enough sitting? I might be inclined to change my vote to a yes as well, if this is a possibility...

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06-17-2011, 10:08 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
If he's chained on the bench most of the time... well, how chained? Could he perchance eat Jacques Martin by mistake during a lengthy enough sitting? I might be inclined to change my vote to a yes as well, if this is a possibility...
Big old metal collar around his neck, that's how chained. Can't eat the coach, though, the coach is the one that feeds him, zaps him with a cattle prod to get him "testy" and releases him as the Bell Centre fills with the cries of "Git 'im, Mongo! Ksk, Ksk". Nope, can't eat the coach, but maybe throw him a journalist once in a while.

*Breaking News* Montréal Canadiens have announced the capture and signing of Vasilyi Mongobashviliachev, from the steppes of Central Asia. A chartered cargo ship has been specially outfitted for him and Mongobashviliachev, age unknown, should arrive in Montréal for the beginning of training camp. A visa was apparently not required. Terms of the agreement were not disclosed, but Mongobashviliachev's signing required the payment of 100 goats and 30 camels. GM Gauthier, in announcing the signing, said "Ouch!".

In other news, famed hockey analyst Bertrand Raymond, has apparently not been seen since leaving his house 10 days ago.


Last edited by Gros Bill: 06-17-2011 at 10:47 AM.
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06-17-2011, 10:37 AM
  #81
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Troy Brouwer, ladies and germs.

6'2, throws a bunch of hits and will fight if need be. No team needs those useless players who just fight to stay in the NHL, they need players who can fight, but still play the game.

Scott Nichol is 5'9 and could beat the **** out of our current team.

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06-17-2011, 10:50 AM
  #82
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Boston won the playoffs because of the hockey guys. Thomas, Bergeron, Brad "the Weasel" Marchand, Jacobs etc. Not because of the 4th line goons.

The Broad Street Bullies of old were winning not (only) because of their goons but mostly because they had top skilled players.

Want a skillless goon built team ?
You are right. But think about it for a moment. Do you think that Bergeron, Ryder, Marchand or Peverly would have done what they did without having backup like McQuaid, Chara or Thornton?

Peverly was a soft player pretty much all his career. But he was bumping into Canucks after the whistle. Same with Bergeron. Bergeron is a puss but he was in the face of Ehrhoff every game. Why? They had backup.

Horton is another good example. Tough kid but never stood out as a fighter. But put him next to Lucic, and he became an angry beast willing to take on anyone.......because Lucic was there to help. Same goes for Krejchi (at least until Pouliot one punch dropped him).

It is hard for me to understand the thought process behind staying a soft team that is willing to be a punching bag in the hopes that we can somehow out-talent a team without being physical. Sorry, that doesnt work in the NHL. Even the Red Wings are finding it difficult to win the Cup without someone like McCarty on the team.

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06-17-2011, 10:52 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
If he's chained on the bench most of the time... well, how chained? Could he perchance eat Jacques Martin by mistake during a lengthy enough sitting? I might be inclined to change my vote to a yes as well, if this is a possibility...

That made me laugh out loud.

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06-17-2011, 11:05 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
And for the record, we do not need goons on this team. Goons like LaRaque are worthless.

Instead, we need tough players that will not hurt the team but still stand up for their teammates like Eager, Konopka or Rupp. And it wouldnt hurt to have a tough DMan on the team like Engelland, McQuaid or Carkner.

Wishful thinking...............
And also for the record, most comments I read are people who don't want Brian McGratton but tough and bigger players that can take of themselves and still play the game. Strangely, some are still bringing the "We don't need goons" while it's not what it's talked about. Not sure what's the point of that but anyway, I guess it's a long summer....

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Originally Posted by SolkaTruesilver View Post
I want everyone to remember that with the Bruins' victory, goons and tough guys will be in high demand in the NHL, expect to pay a Premium on the Pound.

Many teams will probably get heavier and think that's the magical solution. I think it'll favor urs, 'cause if there is a team that know how to handle a big team with a complex, it's the Habs.
You have to wonder where that complex be after winning a Cup......

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06-17-2011, 11:12 AM
  #85
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although UFAs like Matt Bradley & Pascal Dupuis are available, wouldn't it be more cost effective to fill the ranks of your bottom six from within the organization?

Then PG could afford buy out Gomez and the oranization could move onwards and upwards.

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06-17-2011, 11:15 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
5'9" skill players also I guess, most of their forwards are small.
Yes small players included. Nobody ever want those small players to be removed from the face of the earth. But I'd take a gritty, small, but pain in the ass player in Marchand a thousand times before Tom Pyatt.....or even Travis Moen. When people talk about size, it's never about soft size. But a size that a guy will know he has and will use it for different purposes. But it does NOT change the fact that you can't have smaller skilled guys....I wonder where some take that idea....Nobody wants to trade Cammy for John Scott. And I'd take Martin St-Louis ahead of every 6'3'' and up. But it was NEVER about that.

But let's also realize that the majority of those small players have other guys around them that makes them realize their potential.

For the 1000 times....nobody wants size for size. We want size NOW 'cause that's what we're missing. If we'd have a team full of pluggers, we'd have threads about "Size isn't everything, we need skill". I really really don't understand people that tries so hard to diminuish the size factor while one of the greatest news we had this year was the emergence of Pacioretty. Some and a lot of people said that MaxPac's absence was bigger than the Markov one for the playoffs. Is it solely because of his hands? Is it solely because of his hard wrister? Or was his size and desire to play in traffic just a little the reason why? If he's missed that much because of the size he was bringing to the team, why wouldn't you miss 1 or 2 other guys that could bring somewhat of the same package? But no..hey Tom Pyatt is what we need here. Moves his little feet, and is incredible at the PK. To hear some people talk, you'd think he's the only one in the NHL that could do the job he's doing. Which he clearly isn't. But I'm not surprise. The day we accidentally let him go, we'll then hear how it was time to move on. Until then, he's untouchable. People want to move Gomez not knowing what Eller or Desharnais, will bring offensively but FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, do NOT move Tom Pyatt....

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06-17-2011, 11:16 AM
  #87
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I don't see the point in any team (much less ours) revamping the entire roster to look like the Bruins. Not to downplay their Cup win, but they were taken to game 7 by Montreal, Tampa Bay and Vancouver - three teams with a high emphasis on finesse. A bounce or two the other way in one of those games and nobody would even be talking about following the "Bruins' model".

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06-17-2011, 11:20 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by SolkaTruesilver View Post
I want everyone to remember that with the Bruins' victory, goons and tough guys will be in high demand in the NHL, expect to pay a Premium on the Pound.

Many teams will probably get heavier and think that's the magical solution. I think it'll favor urs, 'cause if there is a team that know how to handle a big team with a complex, it's the Habs.
A guy like Zenon Konopka will probably quadruple his salary.

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06-17-2011, 11:49 AM
  #89
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All the Habs need is a decent big, gritty forward on the 4th line + -maybe - an enforcer as 13th forward to play once in a while against big dirty opponents.


Of course a guy like Troy Brouwer would be great to have on a top-two lines.

How come it is so hard for the Habs to get one ? Pittsburg got one from Dallas (Neil) and St-Louis got Stewart from Colorado. Even the Bruins got Horton last off-season.


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06-17-2011, 12:14 PM
  #90
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totally disagree, the bruins had one in Thornton and Chicago had one last year in Eager. You need some protection to keep your players heatly and keep the other team honest, it's pretty much proven fact at this point
I'm sorry but let's look at actual history. I think you mean keeping the players "healthy" not Heatly, although ironically, you might have hit upon something.

Was Horton put out by Rome? Where was the deterrent there? Thornton's presence was clearly there to keep them honest and keep Horton healthy.

Did Minnesota lose Koivu to a slash and did the Rangers lose Gaborik to a cheap shot, both while the deterrent of Boogaard was there? Not buying this.

Did Cooke manage to hit Marc Savard while Thornton was there? How many times was Thornton keeping someone honest while they concussed Bergeron?

I could go on and on and on . . .

Oh, and I don't buy the "instigator" garbage, either. Two minutes to kill is nothing compared to losing a star for months, assuming the deterrent is for real.

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06-17-2011, 01:05 PM
  #91
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We don't need scary 4th liners...

Never mind that Shawn Thornton was one of the turning point of the Bos-Van series.
Wow! If his presence alone took away the scoring powers of the Canucks and kept them at 4 goals in 5 games, we should find more of these wondrous creatures.

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06-17-2011, 01:22 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
You are right. But think about it for a moment. Do you think that Bergeron, Ryder, Marchand or Peverly would have done what they did without having backup like McQuaid, Chara or Thornton?

Peverly was a soft player pretty much all his career. But he was bumping into Canucks after the whistle. Same with Bergeron. Bergeron is a puss but he was in the face of Ehrhoff every game. Why? They had backup.

Horton is another good example. Tough kid but never stood out as a fighter. But put him next to Lucic, and he became an angry beast willing to take on anyone.......because Lucic was there to help. Same goes for Krejchi (at least until Pouliot one punch dropped him).

It is hard for me to understand the thought process behind staying a soft team that is willing to be a punching bag in the hopes that we can somehow out-talent a team without being physical. Sorry, that doesnt work in the NHL. Even the Red Wings are finding it difficult to win the Cup without someone like McCarty on the team.
Bingo!Great post.

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06-17-2011, 01:32 PM
  #93
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Size is such a huge factor for the playoffs. I mean look at Boston they played 3 7 games series, 3 of them and They looked so fresh throughout the entire SCF. When our guys looked totally Gassed in the latter stages of round 1. If we want to go deep in the playoffs we need bigger players. Missing Max Pac was huge. Literally the one guy we could not afford to lose. Now with him comming back this team needs to add to that and get bigger up front. Everyone wants Brooks Laich including me. He would be a perfect fit on the Cammy pleks line. Then move AK to the 3rd line, him and Eller would be two big bodies on third line. Moen and White on the 4th would be ideal, with Probably another hulking body of Engqvist inbetween them. Unfortunatley we will probably only have 2 big bodies in the top 6. Thats not good enough imo but Management has forced that.

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06-17-2011, 02:00 PM
  #94
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Size is such a huge factor for the playoffs. I mean look at Boston they played 3 7 games series, 3 of them and They looked so fresh throughout the entire SCF. When our guys looked totally Gassed in the latter stages of round 1. If we want to go deep in the playoffs we need bigger players. Missing Max Pac was huge. Literally the one guy we could not afford to lose. Now with him comming back this team needs to add to that and get bigger up front. Everyone wants Brooks Laich including me. He would be a perfect fit on the Cammy pleks line. Then move AK to the 3rd line, him and Eller would be two big bodies on third line. Moen and White on the 4th would be ideal, with Probably another hulking body of Engqvist inbetween them. Unfortunatley we will probably only have 2 big bodies in the top 6. Thats not good enough imo but Management has forced that.
Enquist is softer than almost anyone on our current roster.He may be a player,but he's far from the answer to any grit/toughness issues. Size doesn't matter if it's not intimidating

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06-17-2011, 02:13 PM
  #95
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Size is such a huge factor for the playoffs. I mean look at Boston they played 3 7 games series, 3 of them and They looked so fresh throughout the entire SCF. When our guys looked totally Gassed in the latter stages of round 1. If we want to go deep in the playoffs we need bigger players. Missing Max Pac was huge. Literally the one guy we could not afford to lose. Now with him comming back this team needs to add to that and get bigger up front. Everyone wants Brooks Laich including me. He would be a perfect fit on the Cammy pleks line. Then move AK to the 3rd line, him and Eller would be two big bodies on third line. Moen and White on the 4th would be ideal, with Probably another hulking body of Engqvist inbetween them. Unfortunatley we will probably only have 2 big bodies in the top 6. Thats not good enough imo but Management has forced that.
Then why are Boston's top 3 scorers all under 6' and 200lbs...in fact 7 of their top 8 are I believe...your theory makes no sense.

The 5'7" Marchand, 5'11" Bergeron, 5'10" Recchi 5'11" Thomas and 5'11" Krejci all had more juice left than 6'2" Ehrhoff 6'2" Sedin 6'2" Sedin 6'3" Luongo and 6'3" Edler.

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06-17-2011, 02:20 PM
  #96
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Then why are Boston's top 3 scorers all under 6' and 200lbs...in fact 7 of their top 8 are I believe...your theory makes no sense.

The 5'7" Marchand, 5'11" Bergeron, 5'10" Recchi 5'11" Thomas and 5'11" Krejci all had more juice left than 6'2" Ehrhoff 6'2" Sedin 6'2" Sedin 6'3" Luongo and 6'3" Edler.
That's because they play with big guys that create space for them. Period.

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06-17-2011, 02:25 PM
  #97
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I don't see the point in any team (much less ours) revamping the entire roster to look like the Bruins. Not to downplay their Cup win, but they were taken to game 7 by Montreal, Tampa Bay and Vancouver - three teams with a high emphasis on finesse. A bounce or two the other way in one of those games and nobody would even be talking about following the "Bruins' model".
Personnally, I want to follow the model we can to win. Since we can't finish 5 years in a row in last place and based our model in pure skills, we have to go and find other ways. There is still some way to win with skills with not a top 5 pick, Bruins have somewhat prooves it, just like the Ducks or even the Wings did. So our model could be based on draft picks that developed into great players. We have a couple of those guys that fits that profile. But I will always believe you need a mix of players. Not necessarily that can fight and put a hole in Lucic's face. Not my cup of tea to win those "moral victories". Now that the Bruins won, we cannot be the new Bruins when moral victories are enough. We don't need to solely beat the Bruins, again, we are not playing them for the Cup, there are other teams in this league. But I beleive that when a team is mixed as perfectly as they could, when the skills game doesn't work, you can play the grit game and let those ugly goals come. When those D's in front are too big so that you can't always outsmart them with your stick work, well let that big guy work the cornes and outpower that other big guy in front of him etc....I will not believe an organization who believes in being big in the net....big on D....but don't care about it up front. 'Cause if it works for one, it works for another. I was told that you need big guys on D so that they can't crush the oppositioni that comes too close to the net and all....but then I'm told we don't need big guys up front 'cause our skill guys will take advantage of the bigger and slower guys on D.....well, isn't it possible then that the opponent's skill guys could take advantage over OUR bigger d-men? I believe that to be a great team, you need to complement yourself. I don't believe we do.

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06-17-2011, 02:25 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
We don't need scary 4th liners...

Never mind that Shawn Thornton was one of the turning point of the Bos-Van series.
Don't be facetious. There was no single turning point but the Bruins injured a number of important Canucks one by one and eliminated them from the series.

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06-17-2011, 02:28 PM
  #99
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That's because they play with big guys that create space for them. Period.
And they're also still bigger than the...

5'6 Desharnais, 5'9 Cammeleri, 5'7 Gionta, 5'10 Gomez and the 5'10 Pleks.

It's pretty easy to play big when
a) that's your identity and you're told to play on the edge
b) You play with the strongest guy in the league....
c) Horton and Lucic are skating around decking people left and right (legally and illegally).

Who would you rather play? Habs...where you won't get touched...can turn your back to the play without having to worried about getting hit...

or the Bruins where you have to keep your head on a swivel the entire game.

Krecji, Bergeron, Marchand, etc...would play so much differently if they played in Montreal.

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06-17-2011, 02:31 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Then why are Boston's top 3 scorers all under 6' and 200lbs...in fact 7 of their top 8 are I believe...your theory makes no sense.

The 5'7" Marchand, 5'11" Bergeron, 5'10" Recchi 5'11" Thomas and 5'11" Krejci all had more juice left than 6'2" Ehrhoff 6'2" Sedin 6'2" Sedin 6'3" Luongo and 6'3" Edler.
Where do you take your numbers?

Bruins site:
Marchand 5'9''
Bergeron 6'2''
Krejci 6'0''.

But then comes the strength factor. The balance factor, the grit one and all that stuff that makes a 6'0'' play like a 6'3''. And mostly when you oppose them to the Sedin's ballerinas or at the very least that played like ballerinas in the Cup Final.

But then, while your point was to tried to diminuish the size factor (which again I understand to some degree and don't totally dissaproove), I can fire back by mentioning that your post ALSO bashes the skill factor. 'Cause the Sedins are skilled. And that's what Luongo is also suppose to be.

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