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Rangers or Islanders

View Poll Results: Who wins the Cup First
Rangers 101 80.80%
Islanders 24 19.20%
Voters: 125. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
06-16-2011, 02:04 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
Exactly, the playoffs are a completely different animal. The bigger better team wore our the Canucks, rather simple to see.

I watched every minute of the Finals and the Bruins dominated the physical element of the series.

They also used their size to make the Sedins look ordinary.

If anyone thinks the Rangers can compete physically with the Bruins in a 7 game series...need to pass whatever they are smoking because I want some.
So now the Bruins and teams built like the Bruins are the only ones that can win championships/be successful?

I get that its the kind of team you like to watch and would like the Rangers to become, but it's not as simple as applying the template of the last stanley cup winner to a team with an existing core.

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06-16-2011, 02:51 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by allstar3970 View Post
So now the Bruins and teams built like the Bruins are the only ones that can win championships/be successful?

I get that its the kind of team you like to watch and would like the Rangers to become, but it's not as simple as applying the template of the last stanley cup winner to a team with an existing core.
I really did enjoy watching the Bruins in the playoffs, if I could build a team, I would use that blueprint.

Those are not the only teams that would be successful, Detroit can attest to that, however the last 3 cup winners all had big grinders.

This years Bruins..no need to discuss roster.
2010 Hawks...Eager, Bickell, Brouwer, Burish, Big Buff, Ladd, on defense Boyton and Seabrook. Of course not discounting Kane, Toews, Keith.

2009 Pens, Cooke, Kennedy, Adams, our Feds, Godard, Guerin, Kunitz & Talbot, on defense Gill, Orpik and Boucher.

As Chiarelli did, you can use your chips and obtain size.

In 3 simple moves Chiarelli, changed the landscape of his defense. He traded for Boychuk, McQuaid and Seidenberg.

Then he traded an overrated puck moving dman, Wideman and a 1st & 3rd for Nathan Horton and Campbell.

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06-16-2011, 08:43 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
who is our Raffi Torres, our Max Lapierre.
Brandon Prust, Sean Avery

There are no true "grinder/fighter"'s on the Canucks by your definition.

People would take better to your arguments if you didn't use double standards and contradict yourself left and right.

I'm not sure how you can say Ryan callahan isn't a "true" grinder. Same for Dubinsky. They're just top 6 grinders to me. Their playing style is CERTAINLY of the grinding caliber. Just because they aren't pretty bad hockey players doesn't change that.


Last edited by RangerFan10: 06-16-2011 at 08:48 PM.
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06-16-2011, 08:47 PM
  #54
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This thread shouldn't become another "We need toughness Vs. We need scoring thread"


If the post-lockout era has taught us anything, there are many different make-ups to a roster that can make it to the finals. Even a team without a star-studded goalscorer like Edmonton was against Carolina can make it. A team like Detroit is a lot more tougher than people think, but so are the Rangers. Those that think we need scoring and don't need to get tougher will probably overrate our toughness, and Orr Nightmare and those that feel we need more toughness before we can go anywhere will underrate it. The discussion has been had already, it is tired.

Even if the Islanders start spending more money in free agency, they have a lot to put together. They have to hope a lot of guys develop to their potential. Right now, they have a lot of POTENTIAL top 6 guys in their system, and one or two potential top 4 d-men. But there's no one, IMO, that resembles a first pair d-man in their system. Streit is coming off a major injury and he's 34. DP's contract is something they have to deal with sooner than later, and even if the money isn't an issue, the roster spot is. Do you bury him for 10 years or however long is left on that deal? You certainly don't want to buy him out, do you? Yashin's contract is still being paid out...

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06-16-2011, 09:16 PM
  #55
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Dipietro and Yashin. Not much more needs to be said. That franchise is crippled until Mike Milbury's boy is gone from the team.

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06-17-2011, 08:26 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
Brandon Prust, Sean Avery

There are no true "grinder/fighter"'s on the Canucks by your definition.

People would take better to your arguments if you didn't use double standards and contradict yourself left and right.

I'm not sure how you can say Ryan callahan isn't a "true" grinder. Same for Dubinsky. They're just top 6 grinders to me. Their playing style is CERTAINLY of the grinding caliber. Just because they aren't pretty bad hockey players doesn't change that.
Come on guy...Vancouver has Bieska, Alberts, Burrows, Glass, Hansen, Lapierre, Torres, Rome, and a few other guys who play a rough and tumble style.

who said Cally isnt a true grinder? He is the definition of a grinder, but he is 5'10 185 pounds, he is breaking down because he is playing a style of game that is not suited for his style/frame.

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06-17-2011, 08:27 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
This thread shouldn't become another "We need toughness Vs. We need scoring thread"


If the post-lockout era has taught us anything, there are many different make-ups to a roster that can make it to the finals. Even a team without a star-studded goalscorer like Edmonton was against Carolina can make it. A team like Detroit is a lot more tougher than people think, but so are the Rangers. Those that think we need scoring and don't need to get tougher will probably overrate our toughness, and Orr Nightmare and those that feel we need more toughness before we can go anywhere will underrate it. The discussion has been had already, it is tired.

Even if the Islanders start spending more money in free agency, they have a lot to put together. They have to hope a lot of guys develop to their potential. Right now, they have a lot of POTENTIAL top 6 guys in their system, and one or two potential top 4 d-men. But there's no one, IMO, that resembles a first pair d-man in their system. Streit is coming off a major injury and he's 34. DP's contract is something they have to deal with sooner than later, and even if the money isn't an issue, the roster spot is. Do you bury him for 10 years or however long is left on that deal? You certainly don't want to buy him out, do you? Yashin's contract is still being paid out...
Snow also happens to be signing his young core to very cap friendly deals...just look to Okposo and Grabmer.

Your arguements are so weak!

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06-17-2011, 10:59 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
This thread shouldn't become another "We need toughness Vs. We need scoring thread"


If the post-lockout era has taught us anything, there are many different make-ups to a roster that can make it to the finals. Even a team without a star-studded goalscorer like Edmonton was against Carolina can make it. A team like Detroit is a lot more tougher than people think, but so are the Rangers. Those that think we need scoring and don't need to get tougher will probably overrate our toughness, and Orr Nightmare and those that feel we need more toughness before we can go anywhere will underrate it. The discussion has been had already, it is tired.

Even if the Islanders start spending more money in free agency, they have a lot to put together. They have to hope a lot of guys develop to their potential. Right now, they have a lot of POTENTIAL top 6 guys in their system, and one or two potential top 4 d-men. But there's no one, IMO, that resembles a first pair d-man in their system. Streit is coming off a major injury and he's 34. DP's contract is something they have to deal with sooner than later, and even if the money isn't an issue, the roster spot is. Do you bury him for 10 years or however long is left on that deal? You certainly don't want to buy him out, do you? Yashin's contract is still being paid out...
The Islanders don't have " alot to put together" and that's just a rivals way of stating their in denial. The Islanders are building a fine young team, the problem is they need to supplement these guys with proven guys, and that's where the problem arises.

As for the Islanders, they have 3 30 goal scorers (JT missed it by 2 goals, he'll be a 30 goal scorer this season) and 4 20 goal+ scorers. They also have Macdonald, Hamonic and Streit as their top 3.

If they can find a way to sign a top 6 guy (Brooks Laich rings a bell) they can be competitive, more so than the other bottom feeders. The problem will always be in goal, where without a true No. 1, making the playoffs becomes a "maybe" task to a "hard task". It's not that it's not possible, it's just not easy.

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06-17-2011, 12:54 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by PatientlyWaiting View Post
The Islanders don't have " alot to put together" and that's just a rivals way of stating their in denial. The Islanders are building a fine young team, the problem is they need to supplement these guys with proven guys, and that's where the problem arises.

As for the Islanders, they have 3 30 goal scorers (JT missed it by 2 goals, he'll be a 30 goal scorer this season) and 4 20 goal+ scorers. They also have Macdonald, Hamonic and Streit as their top 3.

If they can find a way to sign a top 6 guy (Brooks Laich rings a bell) they can be competitive, more so than the other bottom feeders. The problem will always be in goal, where without a true No. 1, making the playoffs becomes a "maybe" task to a "hard task". It's not that it's not possible, it's just not easy.
The biggest problem with us is that every year we let the robotic man play goal until he breaks down. In the meantime he sinks us a dozen games in, and really challenges our defense to try to cover up his misplays, overplays, or mistakes. Our season the last few years usually starts after he gets his newest knee/hip injury, and then our team has to readjust to playing with the next goalie.

As for who will get a cup first. As stated earlier, if August 1st doesn't go the way the Islanders and their fans want, they won't be in the running to getting any cup anytime soon. If that isn't the case, then I think it's a toss up. Both teams have good up-and-coming prosects. I think the Islanders have the better prospects, but the rangers have the better veterans and goalie situation. I'll pick the Islanders, but it can just as easily be Rangers as well. Just as a matter of which team comes together first.

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06-17-2011, 03:08 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by PatientlyWaiting View Post
The Islanders don't have " alot to put together" and that's just a rivals way of stating their in denial. The Islanders are building a fine young team, the problem is they need to supplement these guys with proven guys, and that's where the problem arises.

As for the Islanders, they have 3 30 goal scorers (JT missed it by 2 goals, he'll be a 30 goal scorer this season) and 4 20 goal+ scorers. They also have Macdonald, Hamonic and Streit as their top 3.

If they can find a way to sign a top 6 guy (Brooks Laich rings a bell) they can be competitive, more so than the other bottom feeders. The problem will always be in goal, where without a true No. 1, making the playoffs becomes a "maybe" task to a "hard task". It's not that it's not possible, it's just not easy.
Who's going to want to sign with the Islanders? Tavares, Streit, Hamonic, etc will run out of town as soon as they reach UFA.

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06-17-2011, 04:43 PM
  #61
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Who's going to want to sign with the Islanders? Tavares, Streit, Hamonic, etc will run out of town as soon as they reach UFA.
Tavares, Hamonic, Nielsen (again) and then Macdonald (again) will sign long term deals like Grabner and Okposo. They sorta like it here
Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
Even if the Islanders start spending more money in free agency, they have a lot to put together. They have to hope a lot of guys develop to their potential. Right now, they have a lot of POTENTIAL top 6 guys in their system, and one or two potential top 4 d-men. But there's no one, IMO, that resembles a first pair d-man in their system. Streit is coming off a major injury and he's 34. DP's contract is something they have to deal with sooner than later, and even if the money isn't an issue, the roster spot is. Do you bury him for 10 years or however long is left on that deal? You certainly don't want to buy him out, do you? Yashin's contract is still being paid out...
They have a lot of potential top 6 guys in Niedereitter, Bailey, Anders Lee, Kiril Kabanov, Kiril Petrov, and Brock Nelson, with Nino being the only one as a top line guy but they have top 6 guys in Grabner, Moulson, Tavares, Nielsen and Okposo.

Streit remains to be seen given that it was a serious injury but he has had no major injury prior to this and hasn't been in the league long so that means he doesn't have a lot of wear and tear. But the Islanders have Hamonic and Macdonald who definitely resemble first pair dmen.

The DP problem is a major problem. They had the lowest payroll in the league last year so the money is an issue and the roster will be after this year with Poulin pushing for a full time starter spot and if Montoya keeps up the great play. But, the DP problem will have to be facing an end soon. There is a really good chance he retires and collects insurance, every year he pushes forward is another year full of knee swelling and more problems and eventually he will face long term (life after hockey) problems. That's not speculation, that is truly an issue he will have to face. But as far as the team goes, Montoya played incredible in his 21 games or so last year. The stats can back that up, he had something along the lines of .924 save percentage and a 2.44 GAA. Although that may be Poulin's stats, it's close to it. And then there's Poulin, who had an incredible first pro year in both the NHL and AHL. With Poulin you just have to wait a year due to him getting more development in.

So that's where the Islanders are at. Waiting for guys like Hamonic and Macdonald to catch there stride on D, with prospects like Donovan and de Haan coming along and waiting for Nino to secure his spot in the top 6 and kicking Parenteau out. And then like I said earlier, waiting for Poulin to come in and take his spot. So after this upcoming year I'd say the Islanders look for the 6th spot with this upcoming year looking at the 7-11th spot. And in the waiting and developing, Garth will lock up the talent such as Tavares, Hamonic, Nielsen and Macdonald.

Current short term problems are the previously noted goaltending/defense problem and injuries. Both overcomable with Montoya and luck.

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06-17-2011, 05:28 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
Come on guy...Vancouver has Bieska, Alberts, Burrows, Glass, Hansen, Lapierre, Torres, Rome, and a few other guys who play a rough and tumble style.

who said Cally isnt a true grinder? He is the definition of a grinder, but he is 5'10 185 pounds, he is breaking down because he is playing a style of game that is not suited for his style/frame.
You did! You said prust is our only true grinder!

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06-17-2011, 05:30 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by kevin27NYI View Post
Tavares, Hamonic, Nielsen (again) and then Macdonald (again) will sign long term deals like Grabner and Okposo. They sorta like it here

They have a lot of potential top 6 guys in Niedereitter, Bailey, Anders Lee, Kiril Kabanov, Kiril Petrov, and Brock Nelson, with Nino being the only one as a top line guy but they have top 6 guys in Grabner, Moulson, Tavares, Nielsen and Okposo.

Streit remains to be seen given that it was a serious injury but he has had no major injury prior to this and hasn't been in the league long so that means he doesn't have a lot of wear and tear. But the Islanders have Hamonic and Macdonald who definitely resemble first pair dmen.

The DP problem is a major problem. They had the lowest payroll in the league last year so the money is an issue and the roster will be after this year with Poulin pushing for a full time starter spot and if Montoya keeps up the great play. But, the DP problem will have to be facing an end soon. There is a really good chance he retires and collects insurance, every year he pushes forward is another year full of knee swelling and more problems and eventually he will face long term (life after hockey) problems. That's not speculation, that is truly an issue he will have to face. But as far as the team goes, Montoya played incredible in his 21 games or so last year. The stats can back that up, he had something along the lines of .924 save percentage and a 2.44 GAA. Although that may be Poulin's stats, it's close to it. And then there's Poulin, who had an incredible first pro year in both the NHL and AHL. With Poulin you just have to wait a year due to him getting more development in.

So that's where the Islanders are at. Waiting for guys like Hamonic and Macdonald to catch there stride on D, with prospects like Donovan and de Haan coming along and waiting for Nino to secure his spot in the top 6 and kicking Parenteau out. And then like I said earlier, waiting for Poulin to come in and take his spot. So after this upcoming year I'd say the Islanders look for the 6th spot with this upcoming year looking at the 7-11th spot. And in the waiting and developing, Garth will lock up the talent such as Tavares, Hamonic, Nielsen and Macdonald.

Current short term problems are the previously noted goaltending/defense problem and injuries. Both overcomable with Montoya and luck.
Hamonic and Macdonald are good 2nd pairing guys on championship teams.

Goaltending is more or less overcome with Paulin long term, IMO. The issue becomes where do you move DiPietro? If he's on the team he's keeping someone off of the roster that's worthy of the spot.

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06-17-2011, 05:35 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
Snow also happens to be signing his young core to very cap friendly deals...just look to Okposo and Grabmer.

Your arguements are so weak!
Not all of us can contradict ourselves on a post to post basis to create the illusion that we're putting together flawless logic and concepts and like we have all the answers that no one else can figure out like you, I apologize.

We're signing our young core to very "cap friendly" deals as well...Staal's cap hit is ~$4 million and he's signed through 2014-15. Girardi at 3.325 is through 2013-14. I have no doubt that Callahan, Dubinsky, Anisimov and Boyle get "cap friendly" deals this off-season similar to what the Islanders have handed out. And I'm not sure why people value Okposo and Grabner, a guy that two teams gave up on before he found success on Long Island, over guys like Dubinsky and Callahan. At worst they are about equal in talent, potential, etc. and yet some guys on this board that root for the Rangers just covet those guys more.

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06-17-2011, 05:39 PM
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It SHOULD be the Rangers. We are closer, have a better goalie, have much better defense, and have equal forward prospects for the most part.

But I have no faith in this organization putting it all together.

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06-17-2011, 05:41 PM
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I think both teams have the potential to be great at the same time. How's that for a cop out lol? The Islanders have one thing in favor over the Rangers, a GM who is saving the cap space for a player to put them over the edge, and that isn't now (no offense Islanders fans).

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my decision is based on the sole fact that the islander organization is a disaster management wise. Charles Wang and Snow have made some big gaffs in the past few years and it doesn't seem to be getting better. As long as their front office is in shambles there is no way they will put a cup contender on the ice.
I don't think Snow has made any gaffs. You're probably thinking of Wang and Millbury.

And DP isn't the big problem people think he is. He can be Reddened they just haven't done it yet. He doesn't have a nmc.

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06-17-2011, 05:45 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by PatientlyWaiting View Post
The Islanders don't have " alot to put together" and that's just a rivals way of stating their in denial. The Islanders are building a fine young team, the problem is they need to supplement these guys with proven guys, and that's where the problem arises.

As for the Islanders, they have 3 30 goal scorers (JT missed it by 2 goals, he'll be a 30 goal scorer this season) and 4 20 goal+ scorers. They also have Macdonald, Hamonic and Streit as their top 3.

If they can find a way to sign a top 6 guy (Brooks Laich rings a bell) they can be competitive, more so than the other bottom feeders. The problem will always be in goal, where without a true No. 1, making the playoffs becomes a "maybe" task to a "hard task". It's not that it's not possible, it's just not easy.
You can sit here and act like there's nothing left to be desired in a top 6 that has Tavares, Grabner, Okposo, Moulson, Bailey and another forward all you want, unless it's Brad Richards to fill out that top 6 no free agent is going to make it the type of top 6 that carries you to much more than a 6, 7 or 8 seed birth into the playoffs and a 2nd round exit. None of those players in my opinion will ever sniff 40 goals. So then it comes down to putting all your eggs in the Neiderreiter basket.

That top 6 is marginally better than what Nashville fielded last season, and Nashville has two of the better if not best defenseman in the league and arguably the best defensive pairing in the game, and a vezina finalist in net.

There's no denying that they are building a fine young team, they're simply a lot less close to building a cup contender than the Rangers are. If the Rangers get Richards this off-season, I'd argue that if they get hot at the end of the year and make one or two good trade deadline acquisitions they could go far next season. It's a stretch to say they'd be cup contenders, but it makes them one of the better teams in the league and finally gives them a roster that can probably compete for an atlantic division title. If you add one player to the Islanders, I don't see that happening.

And lets assume the rangers get Richards. After next season, they'll have a decent amount of cap to play with and they will have Richards, Gaborik, Lundqvist, Staal, Girardi, Stepan, Zuccarello, Boyle, Anisimov, Callahan, McDonagh, Sauer and Dubinsky all locked up under very managable contracts IMO. You'd finally have your $7 million dollar guys be worth the cash. That gives them the flexibility to go out and spend $2.5 million on finishing touch type players like Mikael Samuelsson, Raffi Torres, Tomas Kaberle's, etc.

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06-17-2011, 05:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PatientlyWaiting View Post
The Islanders don't have " alot to put together" and that's just a rivals way of stating their in denial. The Islanders are building a fine young team, the problem is they need to supplement these guys with proven guys, and that's where the problem arises.

As for the Islanders, they have 3 30 goal scorers (JT missed it by 2 goals, he'll be a 30 goal scorer this season) and 4 20 goal+ scorers. They also have Macdonald, Hamonic and Streit as their top 3.

If they can find a way to sign a top 6 guy (Brooks Laich rings a bell) they can be competitive, more so than the other bottom feeders. The problem will always be in goal, where without a true No. 1, making the playoffs becomes a "maybe" task to a "hard task". It's not that it's not possible, it's just not easy.
The Islanders have a metric ton to do before they will ever be contenders.

Your best wingers after Grabner are PAP and Matt Moulson. Not exactly great shakes. One 4th liner (PAP) and a borderline 2nd/3rd liner on a good team (Moulson).

And who will be the goaltender? Captain Crutch?

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06-17-2011, 05:50 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
Come on guy...Vancouver has Bieska, Alberts, Burrows, Glass, Hansen, Lapierre, Torres, Rome, and a few other guys who play a rough and tumble style.

who said Cally isnt a true grinder? He is the definition of a grinder, but he is 5'10 185 pounds, he is breaking down because he is playing a style of game that is not suited for his style/frame.
and you think Callahan is breaking down? What makes you think that? He just had a break out season and it was the first time he played less than 70 games since he established himself here. He might break down down the road, but no, he's not breaking down now. The freshest injury in your mind has nothing to do with playing a physical game either.

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06-17-2011, 05:58 PM
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Dipietro and Yashin. Not much more needs to be said. That franchise is crippled until Mike Milbury's boy is gone from the team.
Typical blind statement.

DP's contract is 4.5M.

When the Isles start pushing the cap ceiling for the deal to impact them, let me know.

Trust me -- they're done pinning their hopes on him as a contributor. Only waiting for the hip to finally give out and pay the insurance.

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06-17-2011, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by cjdv16 View Post
Typical blind statement.

DP's contract is 4.5M.

When the Isles start pushing the cap ceiling for the deal to impact them, let me know.

Trust me -- they're done pinning their hopes on him as a contributor. Only waiting for the hip to finally give out and pay the insurance.
That's a long wait. His hip is 100% it's his knee that's your problem.

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06-17-2011, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by cjdv16 View Post
Typical blind statement.

DP's contract is 4.5M.

When the Isles start pushing the cap ceiling for the deal to impact them, let me know.


Trust me -- they're done pinning their hopes on him as a contributor. Only waiting for the hip to finally give out and pay the insurance.
Too bad Wang won't let them spend near that.

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06-17-2011, 08:15 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
Hamonic and Macdonald are good 2nd pairing guys on championship teams.

Goaltending is more or less overcome with Paulin long term, IMO. The issue becomes where do you move DiPietro? If he's on the team he's keeping someone off of the roster that's worthy of the spot.
Meh, Seidenberg is on the first pairing of a championship team, and don't get me wrong I think he is awesome but I think both Hamonic and MacDonald can be equal or better than him.

Right now we have to hope Dipietro retires. It's sad because he is an excellent person and was a great player but injuries have overcome him. The Islanders kept themselves flexible by only giving Montoya one year, mostly due to prove himself but when Dipietro inevitabely gets injured, Poulin can come up and prove himself in the NHL level and if it is better then Montoya then they let Montoya go and let Poulin take Montoya's spot. And in the mean time try to get DP to retire.
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
The Islanders have a metric ton to do before they will ever be contenders.

Your best wingers after Grabner are PAP and Matt Moulson. Not exactly great shakes. One 4th liner (PAP) and a borderline 2nd/3rd liner on a good team (Moulson).

And who will be the goaltender? Captain Crutch?
Okposo? He's better then Parenteau for sure. He's just not on the top line due to an injury in the beginning of the year and due to chemistry. And what's wrong with Moulson again? Back to back 30 goal seasons and good defensive play is bad? Something to be ashamed of having? A definite second liner and first liner if there is chemistry, which there is. Not every 1st line has to be Ryan-Getslaf-Perry. Parenteau isn't a 4th liner, he's just a 3rd liner/PP specialist that gained chemistry with Tavares and is just a stop gap until Niedereitter is ready next year. And Comeau? 24 goals, 22 assists and 120 hits for a third liner. I think the Islanders are just fine on wing.

Oh, and then I already talked about Poulin, Montoya and Dipeitro above...
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Originally Posted by Duskfamous View Post
Too bad Wang won't let them spend near that.
I'm curious to see what happens if the arena gets passed. He has spent a lot in his first few seasons so I think it's safe to assume he'd spend again with a future.

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06-18-2011, 11:56 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Duskfamous View Post
Too bad Wang won't let them spend near that.
If the arena vote goes Wang's way, he'll need to/will start spending to the cap, he'll want a strong season ticket holder base going into the new arena.

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06-20-2011, 10:21 AM
  #75
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
The Islanders have a metric ton to do before they will ever be contenders.

Your best wingers after Grabner are PAP and Matt Moulson. Not exactly great shakes. One 4th liner (PAP) and a borderline 2nd/3rd liner on a good team (Moulson).

And who will be the goaltender? Captain Crutch?
lol, 1 almost 40 goal scorer, a two time 30 goal scorer, and a 54 point player.

Go ahead, compare that to your team. Let me know where they slot in. They would be three of your best players, enstein.

If you want to argue that you're better, do it with facts.

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