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Some potential Flyers trades (need some feedback)

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Old
06-17-2011, 12:54 AM
  #1
Fulton44*
 
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Some potential Flyers trades (need some feedback)

I am working on a very detailed and full Flyers offseason plan. I have some trades ideas that I would like to run by the group for feedback. What I am looking for is if the consensus feels the value in the deal is fair for both sides, or if the Flyers should give up more or get more, not if people like the deals. I would appreciate the help and feedback.


Dan Carcillo
Philly gets - 110th overall pick (4th round)

LA gets - Dan Carcillo

LA was rumored to be interest in Carcillo last fall and you have the Murray/Hexy/Lombardi connection there. Ryan Hollweg went for a fifth round pick a couple of years ago, and Carcillo at his worst is a better player than him, so we should be able to get a fourth for him.


Kris Versteeg
Philly gets - 33rd overall pick (2nd round)

Florida gets - Kris Versteeg

Dale Tallon is the GM in Florida and the same guy who traded for him in Chicago. Florida needs players with salaries just to work their way up to the cap floor.
The Flyers essentially "rent Versteeg" from Toronto for the 86th pick (3rd round) with the 33rd pick basically replacing pick 25 that they gave up.

Philly gets - Nic Bergfors

Florida gets - Kris Versteeg

Flyers get a young player who could easily score 20+ goals for them at a fraction of the cost of Versteeg, where as Florida would likely prefer a more established player and someone that Tallon is comfortable with.

Philly gets - 38th overall pick

Columbus gets - Kris Versteeg

Lots of chatter about these teams talking, Holmgren and Howson have dealt before, and the same rules to getting 33 from Florida apply here for the Flyers.


Matt Carle
Philly gets - 28th overall pick, conditional pick in 2013

San Jose gets - Matt Carle

San Jose didn't trade Matt Carle because they didn't like him, but to get a stud offensive defensemen in Dan Boyle. San Jose is going to need a defensemen or two this offseason, and they are familiar with Matt Carle and what he can provide to a team. The Flyers get a much needed first round pick, albeit a late one, and they would receive a third round pick in 2013 if Carle re-signs with San Jose. If Tomas Kaberle can get the Leafs a really good prospect, (Colborne) a late first round pick, and a conditional pick based on him re-signing, as a pure rental player, Carle should be able to get the Flyers a first and a conditional pick with an entire year left on his deal.


Sergei Bobrovsky
Philly gets - Brett MaClean/Mikkel Boedker, 51st overall pick (2nd round)

Phoenix gets - Sergei Bobrovsky

We can debate for days whether or not the Flyers should trade Bobrovsky, obviously I am one of those people who feels if Bryzgalov is here long term he should be. So, let's focus on the value on what is a possible destination for him.

Phoenix will need to replace Bryzgalov, and with their uncertain franchise status beyond this coming season, won't likely be an attractive destination for free agents.

From our perspective we get a cheap young winger with big upside who should get a spot in the top 9 this coming season, and we get a second round pick which we have none of.

Philly gets - Martin Hanzal

Phoenix gets - Sergei Bobrovsky

Hanzal is just now coming into his own, has the size and two-way ability the Flyers could use in their top 9, and can play either center or wing. I personally think Hanzal is just scratching the surface of his talent at 24 and is going to be a beast of a two-way forward in this league really soon.


Again, any feedback, thoughts, etc on the value of these deals would be appreciated.

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06-17-2011, 12:58 AM
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I hope you brought some KY Jelly cuz your ass is about to get ravaged....



Especially on those Bobrovsky trades.

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06-17-2011, 01:01 AM
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I hope you brought some KY Jelly cuz your ass is about to get ravaged....



Especially on those Bobrovsky trades.
Gross

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06-17-2011, 01:09 AM
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Originally Posted by PycckuuRocket10 View Post
I hope you brought some KY Jelly cuz your ass is about to get ravaged....



Especially on those Bobrovsky trades.
That's why I am asking. Although I am far more interested in feedback on the value/trades of Carcillo, Carle, and Versteeg. Bobrovsky is so overrated by most Flyers fans it's not even funny. Not sure about the first Bob trade since both Boedker and MaClean are for the most part unproven at the NHL level, but I can tell you right now we would be lucky to get Hanzal for Bob.

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06-17-2011, 01:09 AM
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I feel like we SHOULD be able to get more for just about all of them. Hopefully

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06-17-2011, 01:18 AM
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Originally Posted by sobrien View Post
I feel like we SHOULD be able to get more for just about all of them. Hopefully
We NEED to dump some salary (with a signed Bryzgalov) so I am trying to keep that in mind with potential trades of Carle and Versteeg.

Carcillo isn't a salary dump so we get what we can get for him. I'd like to think we can get a third round pick for him, but he is coming off of a bad season and I have a feeling that his reputation around the league isn't very good.

Bobrovsky is a tough one to figure out. Just last summer he was an undrafted free agent. He surprised in camp, won a job, played lights out for about two months, and then was up and down the rest of the way, ending the season on a very low note. trying to assess his value isn't easy. He wouldn't be a salary dump, that's for sure, but he isn't a sure thing for a team at a very important position and he will need some time to develop. Could we get the 20th overall pick AND MaClean or Boedker from Phoenix, I thought about it but that seems like a little bit too much.

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06-17-2011, 01:20 AM
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Carcillo is an RFA this year is he not? I'd assume his value is pretty non existent as we have no intentions of signing him

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06-17-2011, 01:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fulton44 View Post

Kris Versteeg
Philly gets - 33rd overall pick (2nd round)

Florida gets - Kris Versteeg

I'd rather have a 2012 2nd personally

Philly gets - Nic Bergfors

Florida gets - Kris Versteeg

This is a downgrade and I guess its a cap move but why not just get picks instead?

Philly gets - 38th overall pick

Columbus gets - Kris Versteeg

Again I'd rather have a 2012 2nd as well as a prospect if we are getting CLB's pick rather then FLA

Matt Carle
Philly gets - 28th overall pick, conditional pick in 2013

San Jose gets - Matt Carle

2012 First straight up


Sergei Bobrovsky
Philly gets - Brett MaClean/Mikkel Boedker, 51st overall pick (2nd round)

Phoenix gets - Sergei Bobrovsky

I like this deal actually

Philly gets - Martin Hanzal

Phoenix gets - Sergei Bobrovsky

I'd rather the 1st deal


Again, any feedback, thoughts, etc on the value of these deals would be appreciated.
Done

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06-17-2011, 01:30 AM
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They are better then the ones that tuckerr is proposing on the trade board.

My God

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06-17-2011, 02:12 AM
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Bob isn't worth that much. People really seem to forget how little STAR goalies have gone for in trades, a goalie with one season under his belt isn't going to get those kinds of deals in return

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06-17-2011, 02:33 AM
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Trade wise, Bob isn't worth much right now, but with a year or two of 25-30 games and consistent coaching, he becomes more valuable in a trade market, although I'd rather just hang on to him and allow him to take over in the 4-6 year window that we seem to be speculating Bryz will be around. Hopefully we get ourselves into a position in the final year of Bryz contract where Bob can challenge for the starting role.

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06-17-2011, 02:35 AM
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You wont get Hanzal for Bobrovsky

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06-17-2011, 02:53 AM
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I don't see Carle or Versteeg getting traded. And Bob's only getting traded if we sign a top notch goalie because he cap is too high to only play a select few games.

Carcillo should be able to fetch more than 4th rounder. The guy is one of the best pests in the league but he was held back on our team. A 2nd rounder is not out of the question for him. But, I hope it is to a western conference team.

Bobrosky I don't see us getting much for him. Maybe a solid prospect/2nd round pick. Goalies don't have much value. Then again maybe Thomas raised the goalie value for this off season after his playoff performance.

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06-17-2011, 03:34 AM
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Rather than have to quote and make multiple posts I will just respond to a few thins here in one post.

First off, thanks for the feedback guys, I appreciate it.

Palepwnr
I get the interest in draft picks in 2012 since it is supposed to be a really good draft.
That being said, and it's just my opinion, the Flyers don't have time to be waiting an extra year to get some quality draft picks. The farm system for the Flyers is one of the worst in the league and needs some serious help. You hope Holmgren can kill two birds with one stone and get move some salary AND get some decent picks and/or prospects back right now.

To the two people talking about Bobrovsky's value
First of all, is there a more debated and disagreed upon player on the Flyers than Bob? Some people think he is going to be an elite goalie that we shouldn't trade, and others don't think he is worth a second round pick and a forward prospect.
I agree that we probably wouldn't get Hanzal for Bob, that being said, a second round pick and Boedker or MaClean, I absolutely think from a value standpoint is feasible.

Flountown
Bob isn't getting 25-30 games to develop with Bryzgalov here, that's the thing. Bryzgalov plays 60+ games a year and if he comes here he will as well. Bob gets 15-20 starts MAX if he remains here and I don't see that being condusive to his development or to improve his trade value. It also isn't realistic to think that we should just hold onto Bob for 4-6 years as a backup and wait for him to take over.

Flyersfan187
Serious question here, if Versteeg and Carle aren't getting traded, who is? Salary needs to go, bro.
On Carcillo, I don't think there is any chance we get a second for him, but I was thinking that we should probably get a third for him.

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06-17-2011, 06:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fulton44 View Post
I am working on a very detailed and full Flyers offseason plan. I have some trades ideas that I would like to run by the group for feedback. What I am looking for is if the consensus feels the value in the deal is fair for both sides, or if the Flyers should give up more or get more, not if people like the deals. I would appreciate the help and feedback.


Dan Carcillo
Philly gets - 110th overall pick (4th round)

LA gets - Dan Carcillo

LA was rumored to be interest in Carcillo last fall and you have the Murray/Hexy/Lombardi connection there. Ryan Hollweg went for a fifth round pick a couple of years ago, and Carcillo at his worst is a better player than him, so we should be able to get a fourth for him.


Kris Versteeg
Philly gets - 33rd overall pick (2nd round)

Florida gets - Kris Versteeg

Dale Tallon is the GM in Florida and the same guy who traded for him in Chicago. Florida needs players with salaries just to work their way up to the cap floor.
The Flyers essentially "rent Versteeg" from Toronto for the 86th pick (3rd round) with the 33rd pick basically replacing pick 25 that they gave up.

Philly gets - Nic Bergfors

Florida gets - Kris Versteeg

Flyers get a young player who could easily score 20+ goals for them at a fraction of the cost of Versteeg, where as Florida would likely prefer a more established player and someone that Tallon is comfortable with.

Philly gets - 38th overall pick

Columbus gets - Kris Versteeg

Lots of chatter about these teams talking, Holmgren and Howson have dealt before, and the same rules to getting 33 from Florida apply here for the Flyers.


Matt Carle
Philly gets - 28th overall pick, conditional pick in 2013

San Jose gets - Matt Carle

San Jose didn't trade Matt Carle because they didn't like him, but to get a stud offensive defensemen in Dan Boyle. San Jose is going to need a defensemen or two this offseason, and they are familiar with Matt Carle and what he can provide to a team. The Flyers get a much needed first round pick, albeit a late one, and they would receive a third round pick in 2013 if Carle re-signs with San Jose. If Tomas Kaberle can get the Leafs a really good prospect, (Colborne) a late first round pick, and a conditional pick based on him re-signing, as a pure rental player, Carle should be able to get the Flyers a first and a conditional pick with an entire year left on his deal.


Sergei Bobrovsky
Philly gets - Brett MaClean/Mikkel Boedker, 51st overall pick (2nd round)

Phoenix gets - Sergei Bobrovsky

We can debate for days whether or not the Flyers should trade Bobrovsky, obviously I am one of those people who feels if Bryzgalov is here long term he should be. So, let's focus on the value on what is a possible destination for him.

Phoenix will need to replace Bryzgalov, and with their uncertain franchise status beyond this coming season, won't likely be an attractive destination for free agents.

From our perspective we get a cheap young winger with big upside who should get a spot in the top 9 this coming season, and we get a second round pick which we have none of.

Philly gets - Martin Hanzal

Phoenix gets - Sergei Bobrovsky

Hanzal is just now coming into his own, has the size and two-way ability the Flyers could use in their top 9, and can play either center or wing. I personally think Hanzal is just scratching the surface of his talent at 24 and is going to be a beast of a two-way forward in this league really soon.


Again, any feedback, thoughts, etc on the value of these deals would be appreciated.
Carillo:

Yes, I'd send him to LA for fourth rounder. I would otherwise let him walk. I would imagine that LA would approach this deal cautiously, it is well known that Carcillo is a target for the refs.

Versteeg I:

I feel that we need to at least let him recover from surgery, give him a full camp, and maybe 20 games to turn it around this year. A second rounder for Versteeg feels like we are getting bent over. It will depend on if he can start to produce next season or not.

Versteeg II:

I would do this but only if Versteeg proves to be ineffective once again. I could see this being done before the all-star break to free up space for potential deadline deals but not before the season starts.

Third Versteeg Deal:

See Versteeg I - same dance different partner. I see this as a last resort trade to free up space possibly at the deadline.

Carle:

Yes, I would do this and I think other teams like the Wings or possibly the Leafs would be interested also. I would sell Matt Carle to the lowest first rounder I could find.

Bobrovsky deals:

I don't think PHX would do any of them. Certainly not the Hanzal one. I think other potential buyers for Bobrovsky might be Colorado?

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06-17-2011, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Fulton44 View Post
We NEED to dump some salary (with a signed Bryzgalov) so I am trying to keep that in mind with potential trades of Carle and Versteeg.

Carcillo isn't a salary dump so we get what we can get for him. I'd like to think we can get a third round pick for him, but he is coming off of a bad season and I have a feeling that his reputation around the league isn't very good.

Bobrovsky is a tough one to figure out. Just last summer he was an undrafted free agent. He surprised in camp, won a job, played lights out for about two months, and then was up and down the rest of the way, ending the season on a very low note. trying to assess his value isn't easy. He wouldn't be a salary dump, that's for sure, but he isn't a sure thing for a team at a very important position and he will need some time to develop. Could we get the 20th overall pick AND MaClean or Boedker from Phoenix, I thought about it but that seems like a little bit too much.
The deals aren't bad, although I think we could get more for Versteeg than a second, if we package him with Carcillo, who is attactive and affordable to a lot of teams.

I don't know if Bob has enough value to get someone as good as Hanzal or a 1st rd pick, frankly. The Flyers have tried to get Boedker off Phx several times, I would consider that a coup. Phx also wanted to get Carcillo back, so a combo deal might be had there.

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06-17-2011, 10:26 AM
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What about dumping salary by trading Vertseeg for picks and picking up Scottie Upshall via FA.

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06-17-2011, 10:46 AM
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i doubt we get a 1st for Carle

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06-17-2011, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fulton44 View Post
I am working on a very detailed and full Flyers offseason plan. I have some trades ideas that I would like to run by the group for feedback. What I am looking for is if the consensus feels the value in the deal is fair for both sides, or if the Flyers should give up more or get more, not if people like the deals. I would appreciate the help and feedback.


Dan Carcillo
Philly gets - 110th overall pick (4th round)

LA gets - Dan Carcillo

LA was rumored to be interest in Carcillo last fall and you have the Murray/Hexy/Lombardi connection there. Ryan Hollweg went for a fifth round pick a couple of years ago, and Carcillo at his worst is a better player than him, so we should be able to get a fourth for him.

Your not getting a fourth round pick for the rights to Carcillo. His RFA rights are worthless, especially considering everyone knows we most likely won't sign him


Kris Versteeg
Philly gets - 33rd overall pick (2nd round)

Florida gets - Kris Versteeg

Dale Tallon is the GM in Florida and the same guy who traded for him in Chicago. Florida needs players with salaries just to work their way up to the cap floor.
The Flyers essentially "rent Versteeg" from Toronto for the 86th pick (3rd round) with the 33rd pick basically replacing pick 25 that they gave up.
I guess i wouldn't mind, it's fair value, but Id rather get a 2012 2nd + 4th/5th 2011.

Philly gets - Nic Bergfors

Florida gets - Kris Versteeg

Flyers get a young player who could easily score 20+ goals for them at a fraction of the cost of Versteeg, where as Florida would likely prefer a more established player and someone that Tallon is comfortable with.
Not a chance. Bergfors sucks, theres a reason hes on his like 3rd tean in 2 years

Philly gets - 38th overall pick

Columbus gets - Kris Versteeg

Lots of chatter about these teams talking, Holmgren and Howson have dealt before, and the same rules to getting 33 from Florida apply here for the Flyers.
Like stated before, rather have a 2012 2nd.

Matt Carle
Philly gets - 28th overall pick, conditional pick in 2013

San Jose gets - Matt Carle

San Jose didn't trade Matt Carle because they didn't like him, but to get a stud offensive defensemen in Dan Boyle. San Jose is going to need a defensemen or two this offseason, and they are familiar with Matt Carle and what he can provide to a team. The Flyers get a much needed first round pick, albeit a late one, and they would receive a third round pick in 2013 if Carle re-signs with San Jose. If Tomas Kaberle can get the Leafs a really good prospect, (Colborne) a late first round pick, and a conditional pick based on him re-signing, as a pure rental player, Carle should be able to get the Flyers a first and a conditional pick with an entire year left on his deal.

Done, but it's more likely we get a 2nd and possibly a decent prospect. Dont think SJ does this.

Sergei Bobrovsky
Philly gets - Brett MaClean/Mikkel Boedker, 51st overall pick (2nd round)

Phoenix gets - Sergei Bobrovsky

We can debate for days whether or not the Flyers should trade Bobrovsky, obviously I am one of those people who feels if Bryzgalov is here long term he should be. So, let's focus on the value on what is a possible destination for him.

Phoenix will need to replace Bryzgalov, and with their uncertain franchise status beyond this coming season, won't likely be an attractive destination for free agents.

From our perspective we get a cheap young winger with big upside who should get a spot in the top 9 this coming season, and we get a second round pick which we have none of.

I doubt BOB gets you that return


Philly gets - Martin Hanzal

Phoenix gets - Sergei Bobrovsky

Hanzal is just now coming into his own, has the size and two-way ability the Flyers could use in their top 9, and can play either center or wing. I personally think Hanzal is just scratching the surface of his talent at 24 and is going to be a beast of a two-way forward in this league really soon.

Don't like Hanzal, but I doubt Phoenix trades him for BOB
Again, any feedback, thoughts, etc on the value of these deals would be appreciated.
thoughts in red and bold

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06-17-2011, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fulton44 View Post
Rather than have to quote and make multiple posts I will just respond to a few thins here in one post.

First off, thanks for the feedback guys, I appreciate it.

Palepwnr
I get the interest in draft picks in 2012 since it is supposed to be a really good draft.
That being said, and it's just my opinion, the Flyers don't have time to be waiting an extra year to get some quality draft picks. The farm system for the Flyers is one of the worst in the league and needs some serious help. You hope Holmgren can kill two birds with one stone and get move some salary AND get some decent picks and/or prospects back right now.
2011 draft is supposed to be the worst in years, 2012 is supposed to be one of the if not the best in years. I think we can wait a year.

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06-17-2011, 12:46 PM
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2011 draft is supposed to be the worst in years, 2012 is supposed to be one of the if not the best in years. I think we can wait a year.
^^This, if we are trading assets for draft picks it makes sense to get the best possible asset back. Adirondack is going to suck regardless of what gets picked this year and frankly I could care less. No one out of this draft barring we move into the top 5 and even argue the top 3 is going to jump into an NHL role right away. If we can get picks for next year especially 1st and 2nd rounders they should do it.

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06-17-2011, 01:04 PM
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1. Trading BOB is not a smart move!

Now he is unproven and only showing his talent and his problems in the Playoffs.
So right now his value is low. But if he plays a good backup role next season you can trade him at the deadline to a team who search a future no1 and want him to sign for long. You can get a veteran back for your playoff run.
Or if he earns the no1 spot, you can resign him and trade away your expensive no1 Goalie.


2. Kris Versteeg must go. But pls not Bergfors! Before aquiring him i will take a 2nd and Dadonov or only Dadonov.

3. Carle: We never get a 1st for him. Take a 2nd and 3rd, so you get much needed prospects for the future!

4. Carcillo: If we get a 3rd i will very pleased. But i doubt it. I think we should try a 4th and a 5th.

just my two cents

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06-17-2011, 08:59 PM
  #23
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Just saw this on twitter from @***********

*********** Hockey Break
The Philadelphia Flyers will be trading players next week for cap issues, Flyers want to keep Carter. Carle, Coburn and Versteeg are options

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06-17-2011, 10:30 PM
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Just saw this on twitter from @***********

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The Philadelphia Flyers will be trading players next week for cap issues, Flyers want to keep Carter. Carle, Coburn and Versteeg are options
Ugh, I'd be pissed if they traded Coburn over Carle.

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06-17-2011, 10:36 PM
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Ugh, I'd be pissed if they traded Coburn over Carle.
Me too. For the most part Coburn is pretty solid on D which is what we need more of, but Carle on the other hand..

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