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06-18-2011, 08:51 PM
  #176
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Originally Posted by iamitter View Post
Thomas is a RW. He is also still tiny - let the kid go back to the OHL and bulk up some more.

Let's also not sign Rupp and keep Boyle on the 4th line, please.

I'm not sure how you see a cup contender there, unless this is in the future and all of those players reached their max potential already. There's a LOT of question marks in that line up.
Really? I see a cup contender.

This team could easily score more goals then the Bruins did this past year.
The defense may be a little bit weaker but still strong nonetheless.

You can realistically get 80 goals put of line 1, 65 out of line 2, 60 goals out of 3rd line and at least 20 out of the 4th line.

That's 225 goals from the offense alone. If you get 30 goals from the defense which is extremely realistic, you can see a 255 goal season which is 3 less than Vancouver scored this year and 11 more than the Bruins.

If Lundqvist plays the way he played this year the proposed lineup could a least make it to the ECF, IMO.

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06-18-2011, 08:53 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by tomobson View Post
thx for clearing that up. i've read so much cap lingo the past day that i just can't keep it all down.
Btw, the 68.5 cap is the summer cap not the LTIR rule. The Rangers cant exceed the summer cap even if a player is going on LTIR. Once he is placed there, it levels out.

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06-18-2011, 08:58 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
In the salary cap age, every team has question marks.
A third of that team is completely unproven or only slightly proven rookies. Yes, every team has question marks, but for that team to be a cup contender you're asking half of the players to have career years and everyone to be healthy all season long. I just don't see that happening.

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06-18-2011, 09:03 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by Chester 88 View Post
Really? I see a cup contender.

This team could easily score more goals then the Bruins did this past year.
The defense may be a little bit weaker but still strong nonetheless.

You can realistically get 80 goals put of line 1, 65 out of line 2, 60 goals out of 3rd line and at least 20 out of the 4th line.

That's 225 goals from the offense alone. If you get 30 goals from the defense which is extremely realistic, you can see a 255 goal season which is 3 less than Vancouver scored this year and 11 more than the Bruins.

If Lundqvist plays the way he played this year the proposed lineup could a least make it to the ECF, IMO.
We'll see a 255 goal season from that lineup only if we're playing with Luongo in net and 8-9 goal games


No, but seriously, I can see us reach the ECF with that lineup maybe the year after this one. I'd like to see next year first whether Gaborik returns to form and how our rookies actually perform over an entire year. I can see a cup run in 2-3 years. I think it's pretty unlikely next year unless Thomas turns into another MSL.

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06-18-2011, 09:04 PM
  #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamitter View Post
A third of that team is completely unproven or only slightly proven rookies. Yes, every team has question marks, but for that team to be a cup contender you're asking half of the players to have career years and everyone to be healthy all season long. I just don't see that happening.
You can't see Dubinsky and Callahan scoring 25 each?

You can't see Gaborik scoring 40 again with Richards on his line?

You can't see Anisimov and Stepan scoring 20?

You can't see Brian Boyle scoring 15 goals?

You can't see the defense combining for 30 goals? That is an average of 5 goals per 6 players on D.

You can't see Lundqvist posting at least 35 W and a G.A.A of 2.30?

All extremely realistic scenarios and if all of them happen you already have a playoff team.

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06-18-2011, 09:05 PM
  #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamitter View Post
A third of that team is completely unproven or only slightly proven rookies. Yes, every team has question marks, but for that team to be a cup contender you're asking half of the players to have career years and everyone to be healthy all season long. I just don't see that happening.
He's got one rookie in his top 12 forwards and one rookie in his six defenseman (who, by every account is NHL ready).

I doubt Sauer, McD, or Stepan are going to take a step backward. They were all pretty steady.

Boston won the cup with a multitude of lunch pail players, a huge D, and a great goalie. Anything can happen. I'm not saying that lineup wins us a Cup or anything like that, but it's fielding a better bunch than quite a few other teams.

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06-18-2011, 09:08 PM
  #182
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Why is Stepan on the LW instead of Boyle, and why is CT on the top line?

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06-18-2011, 09:10 PM
  #183
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That lineup is highly unrealistic -- Thomas and Stepan are out of position, and I doubt there is enough cap space available to sign three of Mike Rupp, Jagr, AND Brad Richards. You can't toss players out of position willy nilly like that.

And making a bold prediction such as Thomas putting up 60 points as a 5'9, 19 year old rookie is pretty ill-advised unless you extensively studied his game.

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06-18-2011, 09:11 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by iamitter View Post
We'll see a 255 goal season from that lineup only if we're playing with Luongo in net and 8-9 goal games


No, but seriously, I can see us reach the ECF with that lineup maybe the year after this one. I'd like to see next year first whether Gaborik returns to form and how our rookies actually perform over an entire year. I can see a cup run in 2-3 years. I think it's pretty unlikely next year unless Thomas turns into another MSL.
I see your point. I'm trying to be optimistic but that roster can realistically put up 255goals.

Thomas (15) Richards (20) Gaborik (45)=80
Dubinsky (25) Anisimov (20) Jagr (20)=65
Stepan (20) Boyle (15) Callahan (25)=60
Prust (10) Rupp (5) Avery (5)=20

Staal (10) Girardi (5)=15
McDonagh (3) Sauer (2)=5
Erixon (5) Del Zotto (5)=10

Total of 255.

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06-18-2011, 09:13 PM
  #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
He's got one rookie in his top 12 forwards and one rookie in his six defenseman (who, by every account is NHL ready).

I doubt Sauer, McD, or Stepan are going to take a step backward. They were all pretty steady.

Boston won the cup with a multitude of lunch pail players, a huge D, and a great goalie. Anything can happen. I'm not saying that lineup wins us a Cup or anything like that, but it's fielding a better bunch than quite a few other teams.
MDZ hasn't proven he can actually be responsible defensively. Sauer and McD can have sophomore slumps. Maybe Stepan will too - who knows?

In any case, like I said before, our top LW spot is open because Thomas won't play there. If we fill that with a 60-70 point player and either Thomas or Kreider really show up soon, Dubinsky/AA/Callahan/Stepan all take steps forward (in offense). Now in D, if MDZ improves defensively, McD, Sauer, Staal, Girardi stay constant or improve marginally and Erixon proves himself here, then yes, I can see us contending for a cup.

As it stands, I don't think we're ready next year.

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06-18-2011, 09:15 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
Why is Stepan on the LW instead of Boyle, and why is CT on the top line?
You can interchange them, Boyle is just a better FO guy. CT on the top line because if he had so many goals over in the O, and has good speed and he can keep up with Richards and Gabby, then play him there. The Oilers never put Hall on the 3rd line and Tampa never put Stammer on the 3rd line either. They put them on the 1st line and let them adjust. If this guy is going to be the go-to guy of the future, let him play top minutes and get used to it early on. I mean sure start him lower on the 3rd line just to settle him in, but I can see him on the 1st line by the final months of the season.

All of this, of course depending on whether or not he makes the cut. If he doesnt Zuc can take his spot on the team, just not at top LW. This is just my opinion, however. Not saying this is the team going into the fall just saying the way I would want it.

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06-18-2011, 09:18 PM
  #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chester 88 View Post
I see your point. I'm trying to be optimistic but that roster can realistically put up 255goals.

Thomas (15) Richards (20) Gaborik (45)=80
Dubinsky (25) Anisimov (20) Jagr (20)=65
Stepan (20) Boyle (15) Callahan (25)=60
Prust (10) Rupp (5) Avery (5)=20

Staal (10) Girardi (5)=15
McDonagh (3) Sauer (2)=5
Erixon (5) Del Zotto (5)=10

Total of 255.
I understand how you came to it, but part of my point stems from the fact that if we get a legit first line and they get first line points, they're also going to be the ones getting first line minutes. Everyone else's production on the stat sheet may decline even though they didn't decline as players simply due to the fact that they get less ice time.

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06-18-2011, 09:19 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by Chester 88 View Post
You can interchange them, Boyle is just a better FO guy. CT on the top line because if he had so many goals over in the O, and has good speed and he can keep up with Richards and Gabby, then play him there. The Oilers never put Hall on the 3rd line and Tampa never put Stammer on the 3rd line either. They put them on the 1st line and let them adjust. If this guy is going to be the go-to guy of the future, let him play top minutes and get used to it early on. I mean sure start him lower on the 3rd line just to settle him in, but I can see him on the 1st line by the final months of the season.
Has Thomas ever been asked to play on LW though?

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06-18-2011, 09:23 PM
  #189
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Originally Posted by iamitter View Post
Has Thomas ever been asked to play on LW though?
The whole LW and RW thing is absolute crap.

Take it from someone who plays the game on a regular basis, it is barely an adjustment at all. Dubi went from C to LW and had no problem with it. Moving from Center to wing is more of an adjustment because of the positioning.

Moving from right to left wing is hardly an adjustment at all, take my word for it.

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06-18-2011, 09:27 PM
  #190
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Comparing Thomas to Stamkos and Hall? Jeez, man, we're talking about a recent 2nd round pick here, who has never played professional hockey.

Those two players got immediate 1st line ice time because they were drafted 1st overall to be the franchise players of current last place teams. Look at what happened with Tyler Seguin. I doubt Thomas even makes the roster, let alone putting up 0.75 PPG on the top line.

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06-18-2011, 09:27 PM
  #191
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Originally Posted by Chester 88 View Post
Btw, the 68.5 cap is the summer cap not the LTIR rule. The Rangers cant exceed the summer cap even if a player is going on LTIR. Once he is placed there, it levels out.
Are you sure about that? I thought LTIR didn't start until the official cap kicks in when the season starts. The Rangers are going to run into problems because even though they have the summer cap to spend up to, that is negated by the Redden contract and now Drury's 7 million is gonna take away from what they can spend because he will count until the season starts as well.

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06-18-2011, 09:33 PM
  #192
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Originally Posted by Chester 88 View Post
The whole LW and RW thing is absolute crap.

Take it from someone who plays the game on a regular basis, it is barely an adjustment at all. Dubi went from C to LW and had no problem with it. Moving from Center to wing is more of an adjustment because of the positioning.

Moving from right to left wing is hardly an adjustment at all, take my word for it.
Honestly, it's nice that you play hockey, but whatever league you play in is not comparable to NHL hockey.

You can't just toss players wherever you want to. Certain players may be better at switching wings, but Thomas could easily falter there. I mean, look at what happened to Kovalchuk when he was switched to RW.

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06-18-2011, 09:36 PM
  #193
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Originally Posted by NYRFAN218 View Post
Are you sure about that? I thought LTIR didn't start until the official cap kicks in when the season starts. The Rangers are going to run into problems because even though they have the summer cap to spend up to, that is negated by the Redden contract and now Drury's 7 million is gonna take away from what they can spend because he will count until the season starts as well.
The LTIR starts in October when Drury is placed there. Teams are allowed to spend 10% over the salary cap in the summer. If next season's cap is 62.2 million, the Rangers can spend up to 68.5 million during the summer, which includes Drury and Redden's cap hits. When the season starts, their combined 13.505 million is removed from the cap (Redden to Connecticut, Drury to LTIR). The cap goes down to 62.2 million and the Rangers would have like 6.5 million in cap space IF they spend exactly to the 68.5 limit.

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06-18-2011, 09:38 PM
  #194
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Originally Posted by Brian Boyle View Post
Honestly, it's nice that you play hockey, but whatever league you play in is not comparable to NHL hockey.

You can't just toss players wherever you want to. Certain players may be better at switching wings, but Thomas could easily falter there. I mean, look at what happened to Kovalchuk when he was switched to RW.
I understand that. Really, I do. The switch cant be all that hard. The positioning is the same but you are just on the other end of the ice. I'm sure its a little more complicated at the NHL level :: but it doesnt seem like a difficult thing to do.

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06-18-2011, 09:41 PM
  #195
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Originally Posted by Chester 88 View Post
The LTIR starts in October when Drury is placed there. Teams are allowed to spend 10% over the salary cap in the summer. If next season's cap is 62.2 million, the Rangers can spend up to 68.5 million during the summer, which includes Drury and Redden's cap hits. When the season starts, their combined 13.505 million is removed from the cap (Redden to Connecticut, Drury to LTIR). The cap goes down to 62.2 million and the Rangers would have like 6.5 million in cap space IF they spend exactly to the 68.5 limit.
Yeah but what I'm saying is they won't be able to spend that 6.5 million or whatever it is until after the season starts because you can't get rid of Drury's contract until then.

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06-18-2011, 09:42 PM
  #196
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Originally Posted by Chester 88 View Post
The LTIR starts in October when Drury is placed there. Teams are allowed to spend 10% over the salary cap in the summer. If next season's cap is 62.2 million, the Rangers can spend up to 68.5 million during the summer, which includes Drury and Redden's cap hits. When the season starts, their combined 13.505 million is removed from the cap (Redden to Connecticut, Drury to LTIR). The cap goes down to 62.2 million and the Rangers would have like 6.5 million in cap space IF they spend exactly to the 68.5 limit.
I actually have a question on this last bit for any cap experts here. I've heard the term "spend exactly to the cap" tossed about here - how precisely close do we have to get? Do we have to structure our contracts so that we exactly fit with 0 cap space? Can it go to a mil under or so?

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06-18-2011, 09:43 PM
  #197
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Yeah but what I'm saying is they won't be able to spend that 6.5 million or whatever it is until after the season starts because you can't get rid of Drury's contract until then.
We use that 7.05 mil on people like Erixon and a few late vets maybe on the lines of Prospal/Fedetenko. If not, we always can trade for another player to fill that space - or not.

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06-18-2011, 09:43 PM
  #198
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Originally Posted by Brian Boyle View Post
Comparing Thomas to Stamkos and Hall? Jeez, man, we're talking about a recent 2nd round pick here, who has never played professional hockey.

Those two players got immediate 1st line ice time because they were drafted 1st overall to be the franchise players of current last place teams. Look at what happened with Tyler Seguin. I doubt Thomas even makes the roster, let alone putting up 0.75 PPG on the top line.
The comparison is because Stamkos and Hall each put up 100 points in their final OHL season. Thomas had 100pts this year and if he turned pro this year, would be near the same level statistics wise. Whether or not he handles NHL play the same way Hall and Stamkos did, is a different ball game. Besides, what has he left to prove in the OHL? He won't getting any better by tearing up the competition on a nightly basis as a 20 year old.

I also think Thomas would be a top 5 pick if he were entering this year's draft.

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06-18-2011, 09:46 PM
  #199
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Originally Posted by iamitter View Post
We use that 7.05 mil on people like Erixon and a few late vets maybe on the lines of Prospal/Fedetenko. If not, we always can trade for another player to fill that space - or not.
Pretty much what we'd have to do. A positive that comes out of this is there shouldn't be any salary cap issues when acquiring players at the deadline if we want to.

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06-18-2011, 09:47 PM
  #200
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Yeah but what I'm saying is they won't be able to spend that 6.5 million or whatever it is until after the season starts because you can't get rid of Drury's contract until then.
The money would have already been spent in the offseason because of the summer cap. They cannot exceed it, therefore are prevented from spending more. If this were to happen in October, the Rangers would be permitted to spend that 7 million to replace Drury. But now in the summer it is already spent on someone else. So that cap space comes in after Drury is placed on the LTIR. They would then no longer have to replace him because they already did in the offseason. They begin the season as if Drury and Redden arent even there and have like 7 mil in cap space because they were unable to spend more in the summer.

In a simpler aspect, if the Rangers spend to or under the summer cap, they will be in good shape come opening night, and not have to worry about Redden and Drury.

Hope that helped.

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