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What sort of Gaborik will we be getting next season?

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Old
06-18-2011, 11:17 PM
  #51
Glen Teflon Sather
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skrimpy View Post
I just don't understand. A lot of responses are like this. If he is the game breaker he is supposed to be, his play shouldn't depend on what kind of center he has. Else he is just an average Ranger. Underperforming and overpaid. Calling it now. NYR will have the same Gabby they had last year.
Bingo!! I'm down with you on your opinion of maryjane! Overrated, underperforming, with a bloated contract. Like brad richards is going to make such a big difference in maryjane's game if he's signed.

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06-18-2011, 11:32 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
Maryanne, hilarious when the guy is far and away our most talented forward.

OH BUT HE'S SOFT.

Being hard really helped Prust put the puck in the net, didn't it.
Yes, skippy. Maryjane is far and away our most talented finisher/goal scorer. Are u happy now that I agree with you on that? But that's not really saying a lot since we don't have any decent goal scorers on our team. If you look at maryjane's record with us since numbnuts savior gave him that ridiculous contract, you'll see that the majority of goals he has scored with us(65 goals?) have been bunched together and when he doesn't score(which has been far too often the past two yrs), he is a liability because he brings absaolutely nothing else to the table.
Bringing up brandon prust by comparison as someone who plays hard and leaves it on the ice all the time but doesn't score many goals is like comparing apples to oranges-one guy is an elite goal scorer(supposedly?) and the other guy is a 4th liner.

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06-18-2011, 11:35 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by 3Four3 View Post
Still not the type to play all 82 games during the regular season.
Got that right. The earth will spin the other way on it's axis before maryjane plays in 82 games in a season.

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06-18-2011, 11:36 PM
  #54
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Two thIngs, 1. Didnt he score 44 goals and 85 points with crap in 09 and doesnt he like to carry the puck

Also sorry if you saw this when its like 3 letters. Tried posting from my iPod, didnt work

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06-18-2011, 11:37 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4th Line Grinder View Post
Bingo!! I'm down with you on your opinion of maryjane! Overrated, underperforming, with a bloated contract. Like brad richards is going to make such a big difference in maryjane's game if he's signed.
I think stepanformayor re-registered as 4th Line Grinder.

He isn't overrated. A 40-goal scorer (last time I checked) is not overrated.

Under-performing: Last season, yes. But, you can't ignore the 1st season he had, either. We'll just have to wait and see if he returns to form.

Bloated Contract: I think if Gaborik returns to 09-10 form, his contract is definitely not bloated; however, the 10-11 Gaborik does have a bloated contact.

Brad Richards is the number 1 center that Gaborik could use to help him get some time and space, and can dish him the puck. He can put the biscuit in the basket if given time and space and if he has a good playmaker to give him the puck. I'm not sure why you would think that Richards wouldn't help Gaborik.

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06-18-2011, 11:45 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by xxxZENxxx View Post
I doesn't matter if he is soft, folks. Aren't most elite scorers soft? Duh. Did Pavel Bure rough it up every night or avoid contact? To me, calling Gabby soft is just silly. Duh! We pay him to score, not slam people into the boards.

Get Gabby an elite player to play with and his production should recover. Prospal was playing at a high level 2 yrs ago and filled in fairly well, but last year Gaborik had nobody. Give the guy a break.
Double Duh!! Putting maryjanes name on the same thread with pavel bure is so thoroughly ridiculous and outrageous that its beyond the realm of sanity. Maryjane couldn't carry pavel bure's jockstrap even after the 4 knee surgeries. Pavel bure was one of the most explosive and physically gifted goal scorers to ever play hockey. You should stick to something you know chief!!

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06-18-2011, 11:45 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 68MGQR10 View Post
Brad Richards is the number 1 center that Gaborik could use to help him get some time and space, and can dish him the puck. He can put the biscuit in the basket if given time and space and if he has a good playmaker to give him the puck. I'm not sure why you would think that Richards wouldn't help Gaborik.
Problem with the Rangers since the lockout is they have not had two players that either excel at playmaking or goal scoring.

With Jagr, we had Straka and Nylander. Those two weren't bad but we could have done better. Sad thing is Sather sought that remedy in Drury and Gomez.

Now, we have Gaborik...and that's it.

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06-18-2011, 11:51 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by 3Four3 View Post
Problem with the Rangers since the lockout is they have not had two players that either excel at playmaking or goal scoring.

With Jagr, we had Straka and Nylander. Those two weren't bad but we could have done better. Sad thing is Sather sought that remedy in Drury and Gomez.

Now, we have Gaborik...and that's it.
Well, if we sign Richards, I think we'll have one of each player:

Gaborik = Sniper.

Richards = Playmaker.

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06-18-2011, 11:57 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 68MGQR10 View Post
Well, if we sign Richards, I think we'll have one of each player:

Gaborik = Sniper.

Richards = Playmaker.
I know. My post was more of a concurrence with you.

I'm all for rejecting getting Richards if some team is willing to depart with some "heavy artillery" for some "spare parts," but we know that isn't going to happen. We could always draft a player like that but in order to do so, we'd have to sink like a rock in the standings this season.

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06-18-2011, 11:57 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 68MGQR10 View Post
I think stepanformayor re-registered as 4th Line Grinder.

He isn't overrated. A 40-goal scorer (last time I checked) is not overrated.

Under-performing: Last season, yes. But, you can't ignore the 1st season he had, either. We'll just have to wait and see if he returns to form.

Bloated Contract: I think if Gaborik returns to 09-10 form, his contract is definitely not bloated; however, the 10-11 Gaborik does have a bloated contact.

Brad Richards is the number 1 center that Gaborik could use to help him get some time and space, and can dish him the puck. He can put the biscuit in the basket if given time and space and if he has a good playmaker to give him the puck. I'm not sure why you would think that Richards wouldn't help Gaborik.
Its not that I don't think brad richards wouldn't help maryjanes game, it's just this: where do you draw the line on these insane contracts that savior hands out to free agents? Brad richards is a nice player but he does not play the type of game that creates time and space for his wings. He is definitely not worth another bloated contract of 7-8 mil a year, trust me.
Any way you slice it, maryjanes contract at 7.5 mil a year is bloated! He has scored 40+ goals once in his career so don't be surprised if he doesn't reach that # again.

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06-19-2011, 12:02 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 68MGQR10 View Post
Well, if we sign Richards, I think we'll have one of each player:

Gaborik = Sniper.

Richards = Playmaker.
Capital idea! Let's tie up 15 mil in two soft players so we can say, we now have a sniper and a playmaker! Wow!

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06-19-2011, 12:09 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by 4th Line Grinder View Post
Its not that I don't think brad richards wouldn't help maryjanes game, it's just this: where do you draw the line on these insane contracts that savior hands out to free agents? Brad richards is a nice player but he does not play the type of game that creates time and space for his wings. He is definitely not worth another bloated contract of 7-8 mil a year, trust me.
Any way you slice it, maryjanes contract at 7.5 mil a year is bloated! He has scored 40+ goals once in his career so don't be surprised if he doesn't reach that # again.
Gaborik has scored 42 goals twice in his career.

Richards and Gaborik on the same line will force the defense to focus on both instead of double teaming one, so, in theory, it should create time and space.

Richards (number one center) + free agency = overpayment.

No matter how you slice it, players that enter free agency will be overpaid and the GM must decide who they really need to overpay to get said players.

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06-19-2011, 12:09 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by 4th Line Grinder View Post
Bingo!! I'm down with you on your opinion of maryjane! Overrated, underperforming, with a bloated contract. Like brad richards is going to make such a big difference in maryjane's game if he's signed.

Man how quickly do some people forget what Gaborik done for us last season. He practically carried the team offensively (he scored around 20% of our goals - doubt anyone had a higher % of team's goals). We were in the hunt for playoffs until last day of the season thanks mainly to Hank's goaltending, stingy D and Gaborik carrying the offensive load. Without Gaborik putting up numbers he did we most likely draft in top-10.

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06-19-2011, 12:13 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by 4th Line Grinder View Post
Capital idea! Let's tie up 15 mil in two soft players so we can say, we now have a sniper and a playmaker! Wow!
Not every player will be a Prust or Callahan. You need talent to balance out the grit.

Like someone else said earlier, most talented players are not very gritty and overly physical (the exception being Ovechkin).

The sniper and playmaker will help you score goals to win games, just like the grinders will put their bodies on the line to help win games. Balance is needed.

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06-19-2011, 12:34 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
Being hard really helped Prust put the puck in the net, didn't it.
His hard work and determination certainly did.

He willed the puck in the net 13 times thus season just by out working the opponent.

Imagine how many goals Gaborik could score if he had half the drive a guy like Prust does.

Skill can only get you so far.

I hope he's very motivated next season.

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06-19-2011, 01:09 AM
  #66
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it depends. if i were torts i would tell gaborik to do whatever he needs to to score and not to worry about defense. if he does this i feel like gaborik will be successful but i doubt torts lets him loose

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06-19-2011, 01:19 AM
  #67
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Gaborik is not really the kind of player whose production is dependent upon having a set-up man, center or otherwise. His numbers won't be greatly improved by having a "legit" playmaker on his line; his production depends on his health, his compete level and his, perhaps fragile, confidence level. I think Gaborik lacked confidence and, either independently because he's just not that kind of player, or as a result of his lack of confidence, lacked heart as well last season, at least part of the time.

I'm not convinced it was all because it was just a down-year and he lost confidence and that he'll bounce back. I'm certainly not buying the injury excuses. I do think confidence was a factor, and I'm sure an elite level player like Gaborik will be able to regain his confidence, which hopefully will help his numbers. I'm not sure Gaborik will ever have as much heart as we'd like, however. I think his first season here resulted from a combination of factors such as being motivated to make a good first impression on his fans/teammates/coaching staff, being happy/excited to play in a new city/system, Eastern conferences goalies and defensemen not yet being as familiar with him (his production dropped off second half of the season - people said he was out of gas from carrying the offense but perhaps teams figured him out some?), etc. I'm really not convinced we'll ever see AS good of a season out of Gaborik again.

However, he's still a highly talented (which we lack) albeit overpaid finisher and my prediction for next season (and his average year in NY) is:

70-75 games
32-38 goals
33-38 assists
65-76 points

And not a lot of intangibles. He'll probably hit 80+ points again at some point and he'll probably have another really disappointing season somewhere in there as well, either due to few games played or just poor performance. I think on average we're looking at a 30-35 goal 70 point player, who unfortunately, doesn't really do much else... which is a little disappointing for 7.5M a year.

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06-19-2011, 01:27 AM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
His hard work and determination certainly did.

He willed the puck in the net 13 times thus season just by out working the opponent.

Imagine how many goals Gaborik could score if he had half the drive a guy like Prust does.

Skill can only get you so far.

I hope he's very motivated next season.
Exactly. Prust is ALL heart. Gaborik almost seems to think you don't need heart when you have skill. If Gaborik had Prust's heart he'd be a 100 point player.

Gaborik scored 22 goals and 48 points in 62 games last season, at a 7.5M cap hit.

Prust scored 13 goals and 29 points in 82 games last season, at a .8M cap hit.

At a glance, you'd say well Gaborik played 20 less games than Prust, but Gaborik actually played 1,121 minutes total last season while Prust played 1,132 minutes... only 11 more minutes in 20 more games. More over, Prust played 138 minutes short-handed, while Gaborik played only 14 total minutes of PK.

Essentially, Prust and Gaborik played almost the exact same number of minutes last season, with Prust seeing significantly less time per game and significantly less time in scoring situations and with linemates intended to increase his numbers. At less than 1/9 of Gaborik's salary, Prust scored 9 less goals with a lot less talent and a ton more heart. Gaborik needs to step it up. It's all on him, not who he plays on a line with.

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06-19-2011, 01:39 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Zetterqvist24 View Post
Exactly. Prust is ALL heart. Gaborik almost seems to think you don't need heart when you have skill. If Gaborik had Prust's heart he'd be a 100 point player.
Gaborik did have a bad case of the injury bug this season: What was it, shoulder, knee and groin?

That still doesn't excuse him entirely, but let's be honest, Gaborik has proven that he can score 80+ points in a season. Will Prust ever come close to that?

And we had "heart" and "grit" in our short playoff existence this season. I think the majority would agree that we still need that skill factor. Also, we need a competent power play; not one that is one of the best in the league, then goes to being one of the worst in the league, to being somewhere in the middle.

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06-19-2011, 02:12 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by 3Four3 View Post
Gaborik did have a bad case of the injury bug this season: What was it, shoulder, knee and groin?

That still doesn't excuse him entirely, but let's be honest, Gaborik has proven that he can score 80+ points in a season. Will Prust ever come close to that?

And we had "heart" and "grit" in our short playoff existence this season. I think the majority would agree that we still need that skill factor. Also, we need a competent power play; not one that is one of the best in the league, then goes to being one of the worst in the league, to being somewhere in the middle.
Why are heart and skill mutually exclusive? Of course Prust will never come close to 80 points; if that's all you can say after reading my post you clearly missed the point. Heart isn't about being the toughest guy on the team and playing LIKE Brandon Prust.

Heart is about leaving it all on the ice every shift and not making weak perimeter plays and skating to the bench with your head down as the other team clears the puck within four feet of your reach without you even swiping at it. Heart is actually driving to the net hard or taking a shift where you just WANT the puck on your stick. Maybe heart has the wrong connotation, but I'm not trying to say Gaborik needs to play physical, gritty hockey to win my confidence, I'm saying his game lacks intensity and he can seem to NOT want the puck too often for my taste.

And I did say I think he'll probably hit 80 again at some point, but proving you CAN hit that mark and proving you're a reliable 80 point player are two different things and Gaborik has only proven the former.

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06-19-2011, 02:50 AM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
His hard work and determination certainly did.

He willed the puck in the net 13 times thus season just by out working the opponent.

Imagine how many goals Gaborik could score if he had half the drive a guy like Prust does.

Skill can only get you so far.

I hope he's very motivated next season.
He scored 13 goals. Which is fantastic for him.

If Gabby scored 13 goals we would be crucifying him. Are you serious?

If I had to, I'd take a floating 40 goal scoring Gabby over a 10 goal Prust to make a team. And I ****ing love Prust.

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06-19-2011, 02:53 AM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zetterqvist24 View Post
Exactly. Prust is ALL heart. Gaborik almost seems to think you don't need heart when you have skill. If Gaborik had Prust's heart he'd be a 100 point player.

Gaborik scored 22 goals and 48 points in 62 games last season, at a 7.5M cap hit.

Prust scored 13 goals and 29 points in 82 games last season, at a .8M cap hit.

At a glance, you'd say well Gaborik played 20 less games than Prust, but Gaborik actually played 1,121 minutes total last season while Prust played 1,132 minutes... only 11 more minutes in 20 more games. More over, Prust played 138 minutes short-handed, while Gaborik played only 14 total minutes of PK.

Essentially, Prust and Gaborik played almost the exact same number of minutes last season, with Prust seeing significantly less time per game and significantly less time in scoring situations and with linemates intended to increase his numbers. At less than 1/9 of Gaborik's salary, Prust scored 9 less goals with a lot less talent and a ton more heart. Gaborik needs to step it up. It's all on him, not who he plays on a line with.
It's all on him? Are we ignoring that Vinny Prospal scored 60 points feeding the puck to Gabby? And they meshed very well in Gabby's first year?

People hold Gaborik to a standard he can't fulfill. Playing with someone who complements him he'll score his 80+ points. But no, let's not give our elite sniper good guys to play with.

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06-19-2011, 04:55 AM
  #73
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you can have guys like Prust on the team because of all the intangibles they bring...Gaborik is paid to do one job, a job to create scoring chances and score goals in the net...He does nothing else very well...Therefore if he does not do his only job and gets hurt over every hit.

Well, that would make him soft.

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06-19-2011, 10:00 AM
  #74
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If he puts up 86 points a year I don't give a crap if he cries on the bench after every time he's hit.

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06-19-2011, 10:04 AM
  #75
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It better be the 2009-10 Gaborik. The 10-11 Gaborik looked like he lost 10 miles off his fastball. He couldn't beat average defenseman one on one. Couldn't go around then. He lost a gear. He looked like he was hurt but he says he wasn't.

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