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Should the habs buy anyone out?

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Old
06-17-2011, 12:11 PM
  #26
JimmyDarmody
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldthorpe View Post
Well, we'll see, isn't it? If the Molsons really fear they are going to lose support because they are reluctant to send Gomez to the minor, I'm sure they will act accordingly.

But I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you. I think the Bell Center will again be packed this year, even with Gomez still around.
That's not even the point I'm really making. When the decide to part ways with Gomez, what I care about is how they go about disposing of him. Buying him out should not even be an option for this franchise.

Gomez has his share of blame to take in all of this. He's consistently in poor physical shape, he's timid on the ice, and is the definition of a player going through the motions to collect a paycheck. An eventual AHL demotion is the best fit for both sides if he doesn't un-**** himself, no ifs ands or buts about it.

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06-17-2011, 12:15 PM
  #27
canadiensnation
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Originally Posted by JimCareyPrice View Post
A It eats away at precious cap space like a cancer.
Gomez is basically a cancer to because if he plays with Gio, Gionta doesn't perform as well as he does with Pleks. But if you put Gio with Pleks that means Cammy goes with Gomez but then Cammy won't play well.
No buyouts not worth anything.

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06-17-2011, 12:24 PM
  #28
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For now, the guy I want gone is Spacek. Gainey got him to be a second pairing puck moving D-man who played reliable defence and he has been awful. I have not been for the sending theof a player to the minors to bury the contract as I thought it may hurt morale and the ability to sign players, but the idea of cutting our cap down on Spacek ticks me off, so I would send him down over the buyout because he deserves it in my book, IF , we are first able to sign the Wiz or another UFA D-man that can generate offense.

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06-17-2011, 12:27 PM
  #29
larrypacman8167
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as far as i know we can't buy out Spacek because he was 35+ when he signed his contract

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06-17-2011, 12:27 PM
  #30
JimmyDarmody
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Originally Posted by yianik View Post
For now, the guy I want gone is Spacek. Gainey got him to be a second pairing puck moving D-man who played reliable defence and he has been awful. I have not been for the sending theof a player to the minors to bury the contract as I thought it may hurt morale and the ability to sign players, but the idea of cutting our cap down on Spacek ticks me off, so I would send him down over the buyout because he deserves it in my book, IF , we are first able to sign the Wiz or another UFA D-man that can generate offense.
Because he's on a veteran contract his cap hit still counts against us if he's sent down.

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06-17-2011, 12:28 PM
  #31
Goldthorpe
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Originally Posted by JimmyDarmody View Post
That's not even the point I'm really making. When the decide to part ways with Gomez, what I care about is how they go about disposing of him. Buying him out should not even be an option for this franchise.
And my point is that what you care about isn't really important at all, unless a ******** of people start caring for the same thing as you, and stop going to the games because of this, which I really really doubt will happen for Gomez.
Quote:
Gomez has his share of blame to take in all of this. He's consistently in poor physical shape, he's timid on the ice, and is the definition of a player going through the motions to collect a paycheck.
If it's true, then why oh why are so many habs players harping on how Gomez is important for their team, and how much they like having him around? Why are guys like Latendresse, who were clearly frustrated about his treatment by the organisation, would go out of his way after having been traded to say how much he valued Gomez?

Your assessment isn't based on a realistic analysis of the player, it's based on the outcome you're looking for. Since you already decided that Gomez must go in the AHL, you paint him as someone who clearly "deserve" to go in the AHL. I.e., you're falling for your own hype. Don't worry, you're not the first.
Quote:
An eventual AHL demotion is the best fit for both sides if he doesn't un-**** himself, no ifs ands or buts about it.
An AHL demotion is certainly not "the best fit" for the habs, at least right now. This means losing a buttload of money, and having to sign a guy to do the same job, which if we can actually find him, would also cost a lot of money. It could become the best solution (as stated in my original post), but we're far away from that. The best fit for the habs would be for Gomez to bounce back (which is quite realistic, unless of course you paint him as the worst player possible and a complete basket case, thus again falling for your own dellusion), which would make him way more tradable, or keepable.

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06-17-2011, 08:33 PM
  #32
larrypacman8167
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not this year(spacek=can't buy out)Gomez too expensive + some how players seem to like him but if he has as bad a year he just had buy out priority on top of the list

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06-17-2011, 08:37 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by The Price is Right View Post
With the buy outs starting tomorrow. Who can we afford to buy out?
They should take me out and buy me dinner and then give me season tickets for the rest of the decade.

Realistically, no one needs to be bought out as the bad outweighs the good in that situation. Waving bye to Spacek next year and dealing the Gomer to Bumtruck, Nowhere some time after that is ideal.

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06-17-2011, 09:17 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyDarmody View Post
This is Montreal, where the fans and media can/will find a way to hold the owners accountable should they start basing hockey decisions on what's best for their pockets.

Overcharge us for beer. Fine.
Charge us through the nose for merchandise. Fine.
Mark-up ticket prices season after season. Fine.

But start affecting the on-ice product in favor of saving a buck or two and things will get nasty. I don't think a brand like Molson with business interests extending beyond the rink will be too keen on testing that.
For those disgruntled fans angered by the ownership and refusing to pay for tickets, others will flock to replace them. Toronto has not won a cup in forty four years, have not made the playoffs at all in the last five, and yet they sell out every single game year round. I guarantee they would be far more keen on testing the status quo with Scott Gomez then losing ten to seventeen million dollars. The only conceivable way that happens is if Montreal abruptly stops selling out games consistently for quite some time, and even that it would have to be a similar loss of revenue otherwise they'll just ride it out.

As a fan, I prefer your outlook but from a business perspective. Your ideal is simply poor financial management.

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06-17-2011, 09:41 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Price is Right View Post
With the buy outs starting tomorrow. Who can we afford to buy out?
It would be a mistake to buy out anyone on our current roster. Bury Gomez in the minors? Maybe buy him or anyone out? Big mistake.

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06-17-2011, 10:07 PM
  #36
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Habs would bury Gomez in Hamilton before buying him out, and next year his salary isn't too bad for trade and would help cap basement teams.

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06-17-2011, 11:20 PM
  #37
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buying out players is almost always a stupid idea...

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06-18-2011, 09:23 AM
  #38
yianik
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Originally Posted by JimmyDarmody View Post
Because he's on a veteran contract his cap hit still counts against us if he's sent down.
Darn it. Thanks for correcting.

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06-18-2011, 04:09 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
The Habs problem is not cash, it's cap room...buying Gomez out would take up almost 4 mil against the cap in 12-13 and almost 5 mil in 13-14. Plus it's 1.8 mil for 2 more years after that I think.

Laich and Gomez are not related in any way, Gomez is a center and Laich a winger, we need both for next year as long as Laich is available and at a reasonable price.
Laich can play either LW or C.

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06-18-2011, 05:44 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by NewEraGM View Post
Buying out means paying the player in cap dollars 2 thirds of their remaining salary over the course of twice the amount of years left on their contract. For example, to buy out Gomez, he has around 17 million left on his contract for 3 years. Thats around 2 million dollars off the cap for 6 years!!!!!!!!! And all those 6 years, we will not even be on the team. So its 2 million dollars for nothing....Yes, we save some money until his contract runs out, but then for 3 years after its just wasted...

For Spacek, 3.83 left for 1 year. Buyout would be 2.55 for 2 years...

Not really worth it in any case.

However, if we wait one more year with Gomez, we would only have 10 million left for 2 years. Buyout would be 1.666 for only 4 years now. Still I wouldn't see it happennig.....
Gomez is good trade bait next year. His cost will be much less than his cap hit and teams like Florida, Nashville who have trouble spending up to the cap will want him. We'll trade him for a bag of pucks and be happy about it.

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06-18-2011, 08:48 PM
  #41
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If it is the difference between signing Wiz and not I say trade/buyout/send down spacek. The guy is like brisbois only not one of the "good old boys".

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06-18-2011, 09:59 PM
  #42
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To everyone who thinks Gomez could be trade bait, take your heads out of your a****!
No one will touch him on his current salary. Not this year and not next. Maybe, MAYBE
in his final year but the Habs would have to sweeten the deal. Gomez will remain a Hab
for the rest of his contract unless bought out.

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06-19-2011, 01:18 AM
  #43
keepcalmandbeninja
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In my view buying out is an extreme last resort because due of the systemic nature of salary cap it is absolutely neccessary to maximise and utilize all cap space avail to build + maintain your team. Moreover I was very critical of the Laraque buyout for the above reason 500k cap penalty or whatever is a huge detriment to a team's on ice success...teams should consider ahl dumping...euro loans or a timely long term injury reserve before buying out...sigh...

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06-19-2011, 01:27 AM
  #44
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There was someone that put up an interesting article the other day. It mentioned that there was a period of time where players could be bought out with no penalty against the cap BEFORE the new CBA started. I can't remember the exact term, but I bet that's what the Habs are waiting for. We can buy out Gomez at the end of this year and have it not hit our cap. That will be EXCELLENT.

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06-19-2011, 01:46 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Shadyone33 View Post
There was someone that put up an interesting article the other day. It mentioned that there was a period of time where players could be bought out with no penalty against the cap BEFORE the new CBA started. I can't remember the exact term, but I bet that's what the Habs are waiting for. We can buy out Gomez at the end of this year and have it not hit our cap. That will be EXCELLENT.
On the surface that seems great for the Habs, getting rid of Gomez with no penalty on the cap. When I think about the factors behind it though, I'm not so sure.

If there are compliance buy-outs in the new CBA that means the salary cap along with (probably) the salary floor will be going down.

As one of the highest revenue-teams where there is a gap between high-revenue and low-revenue clubs the Habs have an advantage where they can spend to the salary cap while teams like the Islanders, Panthers, Hurricanes, Blue Jackets, Coyotes, Predators, Stars, etc. cannot. The Habs have more resources to allocate toward signing players than a fair number of teams in the NHL, allowing them to acquire higher quality players (if not at the top, then in terms of depth).

The lower salary cap will put some free agents back into the range of those lower-salary clubs. The top-end always get paid of course, but the bottom-end 2nd liners and top-end 3rd-line players are where the Habs can really stretch their financial muscle (as Gauthier should do this year with the derth of top-end free agent forwards) while other teams have to make do with cheaper options.

With Gauthier probably having a stronger year (he couldn't get much worse), and his contract being structured (i.e. his salary lower than his cap hit for the final 2 seasons) he can really be an attractive trade option for a cash-strapped, quality-strapped team. At worst the Habs should be able to get rid of him for nothing, at best they get an asset or two because of the scarcity of tougher-minute centres.

If the new CBA remains the same as the old CBA, the Habs probably get rid of Gomez while the gap between rich and poor teams widen, allowing the Habs to flex their financial muscle to a greater degree. If the new CBA bring in a lower floor and compliance buy-outs, the rich-poor gap will be smaller and the ability of Montreal to spend to the top won't be as big of an advantage with less to spend.

The best case scenario, I think, is Gomez bounces back, Eller develops into a 2nd-line centre by the end of the year, and the CBA remains the same. The worst case is Gomez becomes a 20-point centre, the cap goes down, and there are no compliance buy-outs. Buying out Gomez with a compliance buy-out is somewhere in between because of the lower salary cap.

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06-19-2011, 02:45 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Goldthorpe View Post
No, they don't.

I understand that (and why) you feel that they should, but this delusion is your own creation. This habit of stating something as fact ("they own us" or "they are so rich, they can put him in the AHL no problem") leads to a false sense of entitlement, and disapointment because of unrealistic expectations.
Oh please. They absolutely owe it to us. If they didn't, there would be no point to sports.

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06-19-2011, 03:33 AM
  #47
keepcalmandbeninja
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In my view buying out is an extreme last resort because due of the systemic nature of salary cap it is absolutely neccessary to maximise and utilize all cap space avail to build + maintain your team. Moreover I was very critical of the Laraque buyout for the above reason 500k cap penalty or whatever is a huge detriment to a team's on ice success...teams should consider ahl dumping...euro loans or a timely long term injury reserve before buying out...sigh...

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Old
06-19-2011, 05:41 AM
  #48
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Laich can play either LW or C.
He's played wing 75% of his time in the NHL, the only reason he played some center is Washington was weak up the middle...his game is much better as a winger.

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06-19-2011, 05:42 AM
  #49
Monctonscout
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Originally Posted by habs_24x View Post
To everyone who thinks Gomez could be trade bait, take your heads out of your a****!
No one will touch him on his current salary. Not this year and not next. Maybe, MAYBE
in his final year but the Habs would have to sweeten the deal. Gomez will remain a Hab
for the rest of his contract unless bought out.
I think hecould be next summer...his salary drops big time, plus hopefully he has a bounce back year.

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06-19-2011, 06:45 AM
  #50
CGG
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Two things on Gomez:

(1) I want to see more time with Maxpac-Gomez-Gionta combo. They did quite well in limited spurts last year.
(2) Check out Gomez's production with and without Markov in the lineup. He'll put up the points as long as Markov is on the team and healthy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
If it is the difference between signing Wiz and not I say trade/buyout/send down spacek. The guy is like brisbois only not one of the "good old boys".
Why did you ignore all of the posts that flat out tell you that they CAN'T buy out Spacek or send him to the minors? 35+ contract. He counts against the cap no matter what you do.

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