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Old
06-19-2011, 04:29 PM
  #226
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duskfamous View Post
Girardi for Pavelski is a fair trade, maybe the Sharks add something to sweeten the pot.
If any team was adding to that, it would probably be the Rangers. It's pretty fair straight up, though, so it's a matter of how each team values their players.

I'm not so sure about making that trade, though -- Pavelski is a good player, but I'm not so sure he's the player I want centering my #1 line. He's above average in each aspect of the game, but not elite in any sense. I'd rather break the bank and pay the price for Stastny, as he has put up "elite" level numbers. If the Rangers are trading their #2 defenseman, I think they would either:

a. want an improvement on Girardi back
b. want a player that won't turn redundant -- Pavelski is probably the ceiling for Stepan, now that I think about it.

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06-19-2011, 04:40 PM
  #227
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Rangers are not trading Dan Girardi.

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06-19-2011, 04:47 PM
  #228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Boyle View Post
If any team was adding to that, it would probably be the Rangers. It's pretty fair straight up, though, so it's a matter of how each team values their players.

I'm not so sure about making that trade, though -- Pavelski is a good player, but I'm not so sure he's the player I want centering my #1 line. He's above average in each aspect of the game, but not elite in any sense. I'd rather break the bank and pay the price for Stastny, as he has put up "elite" level numbers. If the Rangers are trading their #2 defenseman, I think they would either:

a. want an improvement on Girardi back
b. want a player that won't turn redundant -- Pavelski is probably the ceiling for Stepan, now that I think about it.
How is Pavelski Stepan's ceiling?

Stepan put up 20 goals, 45 points at 20 years old.

Pavelski at 23 (his second full NHL season) put up 19 goals 40 points.

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06-19-2011, 04:49 PM
  #229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
How is Pavelski Stepan's ceiling?

Stepan put up 20 goals, 45 points ar 20 years old.

Pavelski at 23 (his second full NHL season) put up 19 goals 40 points.
Players have different developmental paths.

Pavelski is coming off a ~.80 PPG season -- I'd say 70ish points over the course of a full season is a realistic celing for Stepan.

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06-19-2011, 04:55 PM
  #230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Boyle View Post
Players have different developmental paths.

Pavelski is coming off a ~.80 PPG season -- I'd say 70ish points over the course of a full season is a realistic celing for Stepan.
Pavelski will also be 27 at the start of the season.

Stepan will be 21.

As a 20 year old rookie Stepan out scored Pavelski in his first two seasons in the NHL at 22 and 23 years old, yet his ceiling is Pavelski?

Stepan's ceiling is a lot higher then that.

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06-19-2011, 04:58 PM
  #231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Pavelski will also be 27 at the start of the season.

Stepan will be 21.

Stepan out scored Pavelski at 22 and 23 years old, yet his ceiling is Pavelski?

Stepan's ceiling is a lot higher then that.
I don't really think Stepan closer to NHL-ready at a younger age than Pavelski gives him a "better ceiling". I guess you could say that Stepan has the potential to be more than what I proposed, but 70 points is more realistic than saying Stepan is going to become a PPG+ center after his first season.

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06-19-2011, 05:03 PM
  #232
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Girardi for Pavelski
Sign Bieksa.

That works for me.

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06-19-2011, 05:13 PM
  #233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Boyle View Post
I don't really think Stepan closer to NHL-ready at a younger age than Pavelski gives him a "better ceiling". I guess you could say that Stepan has the potential to be more than what I proposed, but 70 points is more realistic than saying Stepan is going to become a PPG+ center after his first season.
I think we will have to agree to disagree.

I think age has a lot to do with it.

Pavelski is in his late 20's. He was in his mid-20's when he outscored Stepan who is only in his early 20's.

Stepan could reach 70 points by the time he's 23 which would be his 4th NHL season. Pavelski at 23 was a second year player and only reached 40 points.

Stepan has an all-star caliber, captaincy type ceiling.

I like Pavelski and he can play on my team any day, but Stepan has a higher upside. And id say pretty considerable at that.

But that doesn't mean we shouldn't add a #1 center. But I wouldn't trade any of our core players or top prospects to do it.

Which is why Richards has to be the guy.

Most id pay for a Weiss or Pavelski is a first round pick and a prospect not named Kreider or Erixon.

But only if Richards doesn't sign.

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06-19-2011, 05:18 PM
  #234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Boyle View Post
If any team was adding to that, it would probably be the Rangers. It's pretty fair straight up, though, so it's a matter of how each team values their players.

I'm not so sure about making that trade, though -- Pavelski is a good player, but I'm not so sure he's the player I want centering my #1 line. He's above average in each aspect of the game, but not elite in any sense. I'd rather break the bank and pay the price for Stastny, as he has put up "elite" level numbers. If the Rangers are trading their #2 defenseman, I think they would either:

a. want an improvement on Girardi back
b. want a player that won't turn redundant -- Pavelski is probably the ceiling for Stepan, now that I think about it.
This is exactly why the Sharks sweeten the pot for the Rangers. Defenseman in recent trades are more valued, see Johnson and Goligoski trades.

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06-19-2011, 05:22 PM
  #235
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
I think we will have to agree to disagree.

I think age has a lot to do with it.

Pavelski is in his late 20's. He was in his mid-20's when he outscored Stepan who is only in his early 20's.

Stepan could reach 70 points by the time he's 23 which would be his 4th NHL season. Pavelski at 23 was a second year player and only reached 40 points.

Stepan has an all-star caliber, captaincy type ceiling.

I like Pavelski and he can play on my team any day, but Stepan has a higher upside. And id say pretty considerable at that.

But that doesn't mean we shouldn't add a #1 center. But I wouldn't trade any of our core players or top prospects to do it.

Which is why Richards has to be the guy.

Most id pay for a Weiss or Pavelski is a first round pick and a prospect not named Kreider or Erixon.

But only if Richards doesn't sign.
I think it'd be better if we did both. We get two great centers to build around and I suspect a package for Stastny would be MDZ, 1st and Anisimov. I'd do that and give us a center trio of Richards-Stastny-Stepan.

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06-19-2011, 06:57 PM
  #236
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Pavelski is in the same mold as Bergeron, and he just won The Cup as the #1 center.

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06-19-2011, 08:36 PM
  #237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbop View Post
OK, let's say Brad Richards decides to resign with the Stars. Or The Kings trade for his rights at the draft and sign him before July 1st. Or The Leafs offer him a contract he can't refuse.

What is the Rangers Plan B?

I don't see any offensive free agents that excite me. Tomas Fleischman maybe but that's about it. Anyoine else out there?

So that leaves the trade market.

My initial thought is to inquire about Paul Stasny. He was reportedly available at the trrade deadline last year and he certainly fills the bill of a front line center. He, of course, comes with a stiff price...at least 3 young assets. But the alternative?

And one other thought -- what about Alexander Radulov? Would you trade assets for him? I would based on what I have seen and heard

Other thoughts?
I think the Rangers can obtain him for 2 reasons. Colorado needs more defense and the Rangers have a lot of depth at that position.

Secondly, if Colorado and the Rangers work out a deal where the Av's pick up one or two of our "d" men (depending), they're still in a position to either draft Larsson (and continue building up their defensive core with the additions of E. Johnson, Larsson and ? "d" man from the Rangers) or pick up a high end forward prospect and probable second line Center (who will either play with or play center in between Matt Duchene and Ryan O'reilly).

After all, even if Edmonton selects RN-Hopkins, Colorado could still wind up grabbing a center who will prove to be just as good in the long run (someone like Couturier, Strome, Huberdeau, or Landeskog who is a winger, but still might be the best player in the draft).

Which ever way they go, Colorado still owns the #11 pick where they might find yet another gem(i.e.,McNeil, Morrow, Zibanejad, etc..). So using Stastny as trade bait might make sense especially if his hof dad really pissed off the wrong people in the organization.

***After saying all of this, I'm sure there's maybe close to a 1% chance that any of this comes true, and the Rangers/Av's will have no interest at all in making a deal on draft day.

I thought of another possible deal between the Rangers and the Oilers that would bring Ales Hemsky to NY, but it's nothing more than an idea or food for thought. The Oilers are another team we all know are in need of established and/or up and coming "d" men. They have more than enough young talented forwards to build the team around. Who knows what Slats has up his sleeve. Better be good!

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06-19-2011, 08:58 PM
  #238
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http://www.dispatch.com/live/content...s.html?sid=101

"And then there's Nikita Filatov, who is quickly running out of time to prove his NHL worthiness. If the right offer is made - a fourth-round draft pick, a middling prospect or an aged veteran - Filatov will be sent packing."

I know that the Zherdev thing didn't work (although I liked him) but a 4th rounder and an expendable part for this guy? Worth investigating.

He's still sooo young, and maybe Torts can get something out of him, and having guys like Anisimov and perhaps one of Grachev/Valantenko/Pashnin around can do wonders for him.

It's dangerous and I'm already raising shields for the stewed tomatoes of HFBoards coming my way but discuss.

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06-19-2011, 09:04 PM
  #239
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A 4th rd pick for Filatov is a steal - you can't turn that down, the potential payoff is too much. Why would they do that though?

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06-19-2011, 09:05 PM
  #240
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I would take Filatov for something like Valentenko.....

I REALLY like V-Tenk, but with Kundratek, MDZ and Erixon pushing for spots already, someone needs to be moved. Give Filatov a chance to play in the NHL this season......the Rangers need skill....

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06-19-2011, 09:20 PM
  #241
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Yeah, I was thinking a 4th rounder in this year's draft (the Rangers one, not Calgary's pick) and I'd start with Avery or Weise. I'd prefer to keep Valantenko.

I like Weise but with Wilson, Borque, Grant and maybe even Hagelin (hopefully he makes the big club right away) he is expendable.

I'd like to see Filatov play with Stepan and maybe even Zuc or Hagelin.

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06-19-2011, 09:28 PM
  #242
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No thanks on Filatov.

A few points:

1. I don't think Columbus would be willing to trade him for a 4th rounder -- it seems that is more writer's opinion of the value of Filatov league - wide.

2. IF Columbus was willing to trade him for a 4th rounder, wouldn't that send off red flags in your mind about their opinion of him? With his supposed high end skill, they must be desperate to trade him if they only want a 4th rounder back, and to me, that screams "locker room cancer/primadonna".

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06-19-2011, 09:40 PM
  #243
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duskfamous View Post
I think it'd be better if we did both. We get two great centers to build around and I suspect a package for Stastny would be MDZ, 1st and Anisimov. I'd do that and give us a center trio of Richards-Stastny-Stepan.
Actually, I like this deal except the part where we have to give up a first round pick and I'm still not sure how good (or average) Anisimov is going to be in the next few years.

From what I've read, Tyler Biggs is very underrated and an extreme pain in the ass to play against.

Quote:
"He tangled with several of the U.S. League's top fighters, and in 16 games against older more experienced NCAA players, Biggs finished second in scoring and notched 3 game winners. While his offense is nice, it's his ability to deliver big hits and disrupt opponents that will punch his ticket into the NHL. Biggs is bound for Miami University next season." Brian Burke is probably salivating over this kid. "The ISS ranked him number 8 overall in this year's draft." Could be a steal for the Rangers which, probably hasn't happened since the days of drafting Brian Leetch.
There's also Jurco, Puempel, Phillips, Scheifele, and McNeil if still available. There's more (Rattie, Grimaldi, Namestnikov) and the fact that we wouldn't get a pick until the 3rd round could back fire. We gave Calgary 2 second round picks and really, it seems Sather has had his most success in round 2.

I just don't want to miss out on some real good talent like the infamous 1st round (for Rangers fans anyway) of draft 2003.

We're already sending 2 second rounders to Calgary. IMO, we should keep the first at the very least.

I know you have to give up something to get something. The kind of trade you put on the table would probably make for a good poll.

I'd like to ask the mods if we could have a poll.

Anisimov, DZ, 1st rd pick to Colorado
Paul Stastny to the Rangers

who would or wouldn't make the trade?

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06-19-2011, 09:40 PM
  #244
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Ya know, I could just toss that as a poll on the offseason thread, as I started it.

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06-19-2011, 09:54 PM
  #245
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Boyle View Post
No thanks on Filatov.

A few points:

1. I don't think Columbus would be willing to trade him for a 4th rounder -- it seems that is more writer's opinion of the value of Filatov league - wide.

2. IF Columbus was willing to trade him for a 4th rounder, wouldn't that send off red flags in your mind about their opinion of him? With his supposed high end skill, they must be desperate to trade him if they only want a 4th rounder back, and to me, that screams "locker room cancer/primadonna".
In response to #1 that was my thinking too.

#2 - you don't get a guy with that much skill unless there have been issues. It's a risk/reward proposition. sometimes deals like that work out...if anything, it presents a buying opportunity if you can see through all the negatives. for a 4th rounder/mid prospect, you aren't giving up an NHL player at all, so you are giving up nothing for the potential at something.

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06-19-2011, 09:56 PM
  #246
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Originally Posted by NYRangers16 View Post
In response to #1 that was my thinking too.

#2 - you don't get a guy with that much skill unless there have been issues. It's a risk/reward proposition. sometimes deals like that work out...if anything, it presents a buying opportunity if you can see through all the negatives. for a 4th rounder/mid prospect, you aren't giving up an NHL player at all, so you are giving up nothing for the potential at something.
Honestly, Filatov doesn't impress me. He hasn't played well at the NHL level, and hasn't played to expectations at the AHL level. I see so many excuses made for him, but he's simply too much of a headcase for the Rangers to worry about right now. He's basically Nik Zherdev part two, but Zherdev will probably be the more valuable player at the end of it all.

Does Filatov have potential? Yes, very much so.

Is there a significant chance he doesn't amount to anywhere near what he was touted to be? Again, yes, very much so.

I know it may seem like I'm turning my nose up to talent, when I suggest it myself, but Filatov isn't the way to go.

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06-19-2011, 10:22 PM
  #247
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Originally Posted by NYRangers16 View Post
A 4th rd pick for Filatov is a steal - you can't turn that down, the potential payoff is too much. Why would they do that though?
They did give up Zherdev (went 4th overall) for Tyutin who was a second round pick. IDK, maybe a 4th rounder + someone else?

I think everyone had to love Zherdev at first. What a complete waste of god given skill when I think of that kid. Then he gets tagged with the "just another enigmatic Russian (or Ukraine)" label.

I'm sure the recent pipe incident with his wife didn't help his reputation around the league much.

He is though, the kind of player who keeps me second guessing when people mention Anisimov or Grachev in trade rumors. Anisimov has the puck handling skills, can blast a wrist shot, hustles all over the ice and back checks. You could see he wants to win out there. With Zherdev it wasn't that obvious.

As far as Filatov goes, I don't know much about his game and how badly he wants to bring it to the best league in the world.

I honestly think Anisimov will put up just as many points and eventually more than Zherdev, except he'll do it on a more consistent basis, and minus the "just another lazy Russian with an attitude problem" labeled on his forehead.

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06-19-2011, 10:24 PM
  #248
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Boyle View Post
Honestly, Filatov doesn't impress me. He hasn't played well at the NHL level, and hasn't played to expectations at the AHL level. I see so many excuses made for him, but he's simply too much of a headcase for the Rangers to worry about right now. He's basically Nik Zherdev part two, but Zherdev will probably be the more valuable player at the end of it all.

Does Filatov have potential? Yes, very much so.

Is there a significant chance he doesn't amount to anywhere near what he was touted to be? Again, yes, very much so.

I know it may seem like I'm turning my nose up to talent, when I suggest it myself, but Filatov isn't the way to go.
Okay forget that idea. Yikes! Especially doesn't sound like a "Torts type guy."

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06-19-2011, 10:41 PM
  #249
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duskfamous View Post
I think it'd be better if we did both. We get two great centers to build around and I suspect a package for Stastny would be MDZ, 1st and Anisimov. I'd do that and give us a center trio of Richards-Stastny-Stepan.
I'd much rather have stastny than richards, much younger and way more upside. Thinking we should try for both richards and stastny is way beyond realistic.

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06-19-2011, 10:50 PM
  #250
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gravytrain6t View Post
Okay forget that idea. Yikes! Especially doesn't sound like a "Torts type guy."
The only player I would die to have and would trade for in a heartbeat is Ric Nash. He would look stupendous in a ranger uniform.

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