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What sort of Gaborik will we be getting next season?

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06-19-2011, 09:30 AM
  #76
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
If he puts up 86 points a year I don't give a crap if he cries on the bench after every time he's hit.
But he doesn't and he won't and truthfully, he can't.

He can score 80+ points SOME years. Gaborik isn't a "proven" 80 point per year player though and I'm not sure why everyone wants to act like he is. He had one 86 point season. He's 29. How is that 86 points a year? Between health concerns and compete level, Gaborik is simply not a player who can be relied upon for CONSISTENT 80 point seasons.

I hate to be that guy but expecting anything more than ~60-70 games and ~50-70 points out of Gaborik each year is simply expecting too much. He'll exceed those numbers sometimes, but if you're expecting him to do better annually, prepare to be disappointed.

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It's all on him? Are we ignoring that Vinny Prospal scored 60 points feeding the puck to Gabby? And they meshed very well in Gabby's first year?

People hold Gaborik to a standard he can't fulfill. Playing with someone who complements him he'll score his 80+ points. But no, let's not give our elite sniper good guys to play with.
You're the one holding him to the standard he can't fulfill. He isn't a reliable, consistent or proven 80 points per season player. The fact that he did so well in his first season here with a mix of Dubinsky, Prospal and Christensen proves MY point. It's not about his linemates; it's all on him. It's on his health, obviously, and then it's all on his compete level and his confidence. Gaborik simply didn't BRING it last year. And if anything else were the truth, our coach wouldn't have been keeping him on the bench for nearly entire periods at times. You can say whatever you want to, but it is 100% accurate that if Gaborik played HIS game but with the intensity that Prust brings to his own game, than he would be the consistent 80+ point guy YOU seem to think he realistically is. He obviously has the skill. It's all on him to consistently find that other gear that separates the highly skilled floaters like Zherdev from the highly skilled superstars.


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06-19-2011, 09:37 AM
  #77
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He's always been a streaky guy, but 80+ points is what I expect from him with Brad Richards.

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06-19-2011, 12:34 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Zetterqvist24 View Post
You're the one holding him to the standard he can't fulfill. He isn't a reliable, consistent or proven 80 points per season player. The fact that he did so well in his first season here with a mix of Dubinsky, Prospal and Christensen proves MY point. It's not about his linemates; it's all on him. It's on his health, obviously, and then it's all on his compete level and his confidence. Gaborik simply didn't BRING it last year. And if anything else were the truth, our coach wouldn't have been keeping him on the bench for nearly entire periods at times. You can say whatever you want to, but it is 100% accurate that if Gaborik played HIS game but with the intensity that Prust brings to his own game, than he would be the consistent 80+ point guy YOU seem to think he realistically is. He obviously has the skill. It's all on him to consistently find that other gear that separates the highly skilled floaters like Zherdev from the highly skilled superstars.
I'm sorry, JT benching him does not prove a point. If this team had a consistent offense and consistent powerplay, I'd agree with you, but that's not the case.

When this team only specializes in the dump and chase, playing selfless hockey by passing instead of shooting, making our powerplay look anemic, and playing a system where a slapshot and one timer are foreign concepts on this team, I'm definitely not laying the finger on one of the players.

And heart alone can only get you so far. Islanders played with a lot of heart and a lot of good it did them.

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06-19-2011, 01:25 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by 3Four3 View Post
I'm sorry, JT benching him does not prove a point. If this team had a consistent offense and consistent powerplay, I'd agree with you, but that's not the case.

When this team only specializes in the dump and chase, playing selfless hockey by passing instead of shooting, making our powerplay look anemic, and playing a system where a slapshot and one timer are foreign concepts on this team, I'm definitely not laying the finger on one of the players.

And heart alone can only get you so far. Islanders played with a lot of heart and a lot of good it did them.
Again, what makes heart and skill mutually exclusive? Who is saying anything about "heart alone"? Is his skill going to disappear if he plays a more intense game? Asking Gaborik to play with more heart or intensity or whatever you want to call it isn't like saying "Hey Gabby, can you maybe trade some of your skill away for some heart?"... he HAS the skill to perform much better, but he doesn't play with enough drive a lot of the time. I don't know how anyone can even argue with that concept; Gaborik is simply NOT a hungry, driven player. If he was, he'd be a lot more effective.


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06-19-2011, 01:36 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Zetterqvist24 View Post
How is this not computing for you? Again, what makes heart and skill mutually exclusive? Asking Gaborik to play with more heart or intensity or whatever you want to call it isn't like saying "Hey Gabby, can you maybe trade some of your skill away for some heart?"... he HAS the skill to perform much better, but he doesn't play with enough drive a lot of the time. I don't know how anyone can even argue with that concept; Gaborik is simply NOT a hungry, driven player. If he was, he'd be a lot more effective.
The Rangers had heart against the Capitals but did they finish on those opportunities? If a team is capable of creating offensive chances and sustain offensive pressure whilst not scoring, I don't think it's a question of heart but skill.

Cally wears his heart on his sleeve but if he had more shooting skills, easily could bump his goal stats by at lest 10 goals.

Almost déjà vu while talking with you: Playoffs end, someone praises Prust, and another board member is quick to say we'd still have offensive woes.

I'm not excusing Gaborik for everything but I'm not going to throw him under the bus for everything, or question his drive, especially when he was bogged down with injuries this season.

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06-19-2011, 01:51 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by 3Four3 View Post
The Rangers had heart against the Capitals but did they finish on those opportunities? If a team is capable of creating offensive chances and sustain offensive pressure whilst not scoring, I don't think it's a question of heart but skill.

Cally wears his heart on his sleeve but if he had more shooting skills, easily could bump his goal stats by at lest 10 goals.

Almost déjà vu while talking with you: Playoffs end, someone praises Prust, and another board member is quick to say we'd still have offensive woes.

I'm not excusing Gaborik for everything but I'm not going to throw him under the bus for everything, or question his drive, especially when he was bogged down with injuries this season.
Dude... WHERE am I saying the TEAM needs more heart (which you seem to think means gritty "heart and soul" kinds of players, for some inexplicable reason)? Saying that a SPECIFIC player needs to play with more heart, intensity, drive, urgency, gumption, jam, etc. is NOT the same thing as saying "boy, this team needs more guys like Prust and Cally". Why do you keep trying to drive home the "we need more skilled guys; we have enough heart" argument? I'm not advocating more grit and grind I'm simply stating the FACT that Gaborik needs to step up the intensity with which he plays his SKILL game. And I'm really not buying the injury thing. He played in the WCs immediately after the season ended - where was his drive in the playoffs?

It's a simple fact. If Gaborik worked as hard as Cally does (and no, that doesn't mean playing Cally's style of game, it just means giving 1000% every single shift) he would be more than twice the player he is. If Callahan was as skilled as Gaborik, Cally would put up 75+ points a year.

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06-19-2011, 01:55 PM
  #82
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In the Washington series, Gaborik had a decent amount of scoring opportunities but either shot wide or was stopped. It's not like he wasn't getting chances. He seemed to be a tad snakebit. I believe Torts even commented on his effort being there but just not finishing.

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06-19-2011, 02:12 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Zetterqvist24 View Post
Dude... WHERE am I saying the TEAM needs more heart (which you seem to think means gritty "heart and soul" kinds of players, for some inexplicable reason)? Saying that a SPECIFIC player needs to play with more heart, intensity, drive, urgency, gumption, jam, etc. is NOT the same thing as saying "boy, this team needs more guys like Prust and Cally". Why do you keep trying to drive home the "we need more skilled guys; we have enough heart" argument? I'm not advocating more grit and grind I'm simply stating the FACT that Gaborik needs to step up the intensity with which he plays his SKILL game. And I'm really not buying the injury thing. He played in the WCs immediately after the season ended - where was his drive in the playoffs?

It's a simple fact. If Gaborik worked as hard as Cally does (and no, that doesn't mean playing Cally's style of game, it just means giving 1000% every single shift) he would be more than twice the player he is. If Callahan was as skilled as Gaborik, Cally would put up 75+ points a year.
First, you say if Gaborik played with the same intensity as Prust, that would somehow make him into a better player. Gaborik had and created offensive chances and I don't think him not scoring is a question of heart, and the same goes for everyone else on this team.

The problem I have with you is that you're making it seem that if Gaborik played with a little more gumption, then that would equate to pucks in net, but the Rangers HAVE shown they can go toe-to-toe with other teams but they could not bury one if their life depended on it. The Rangers HAVE shown they can play balls to the wall if need be and it still resulted in being stonewalled.

Heart, intensity, drive...whatever, shouldn't be part of the discussion. SKILL, where the powerplay doesn't fluctuate all season, where dump and chase ARE NOT the only thing this team excels at, fundamentals, such as the slapshot and one-timer, aren't foreign concepts, a consistent offense that doesn't have to score in bunches but at least doesn't have a problem scoring two goals in a game.

I think that's what the Rangers need and skill can rectify it.

Gaborik played in the WC's, so his injuries during the season fall to the wayside?

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06-19-2011, 02:55 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3Four3 View Post
The Rangers had heart against the Capitals but did they finish on those opportunities? If a team is capable of creating offensive chances and sustain offensive pressure whilst not scoring, I don't think it's a question of heart but skill.

Cally wears his heart on his sleeve but if he had more shooting skills, easily could bump his goal stats by at lest 10 goals.

Almost déjà vu while talking with you: Playoffs end, someone praises Prust, and another board member is quick to say we'd still have offensive woes.

I'm not excusing Gaborik for everything but I'm not going to throw him under the bus for everything, or question his drive, especially when he was bogged down with injuries this season.
I wouldn't call Gaborik's season bogged down with injuries. Why is everyone so quick to make up excuses for him?

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06-19-2011, 03:10 PM
  #85
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I wouldn't call Gaborik's season bogged down with injuries. Why is everyone so quick to make up excuses for him?
Seperated shoulder;

Groin;

Concussion, which was diagnosed at that point but is believed he suffered it earlier.

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06-19-2011, 03:29 PM
  #86
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Seperated shoulder;

Groin;

Concussion, which was diagnosed at that point but is believed he suffered it earlier.
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06-19-2011, 03:51 PM
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06-19-2011, 04:02 PM
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06-19-2011, 04:13 PM
  #89
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He played more games than he should have. His game was a mess. Not getting open, not getting shots on goal. And the accuracy of his shots suffered as well.
He cannot be depended on to play big minutes every night. His body will not allow it. And the way this team is built other teams just focus on him and beat him down.
Trade him while he still has value.

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06-19-2011, 04:20 PM
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I'd like to be optimistic but, well, I'll believe it when I see it.

I just don't think he has the mental makeup to be consistently effective. Hopefully his head is in a good place next season.

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06-19-2011, 08:24 PM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruotsalainen29 View Post
In the Washington series, Gaborik had a decent amount of scoring opportunities but either shot wide or was stopped. It's not like he wasn't getting chances. He seemed to be a tad snakebit. I believe Torts even commented on his effort being there but just not finishing.
A tad snakebit? When are some of you hf posters gonna wake up and smell the coffee? Maryjane is just typical of so many eastern european players in that he detests contact, floats on the outside and most importantly, he just doesn't compete and leave it out on the ice every nite. This is a cultural thing with eastern european players, they like to style and profile but almost never get their hands dirty and compete.
I detest players like maryjane and I wish they never signed him. If you watched the stanley cup playoffs, you see what works and what it takes to win. That's why the bruins won the cup and the canucks with all their regular season success and accolades stunk up the place and embarrassed themselves specifically the sedins(and their skill and compete level dwarfs maryjane's by the way) a player like maryjane will never play a whole season and will never compete enough to have any degree of success in the playoffs should we one day make it past the first round.
I say trade him, see if we can dupe some team like atlanta/winnepeg or florida into giving us some decent pieces in return for him.

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06-19-2011, 08:32 PM
  #92
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Capital idea! Let's tie up 15 mil in two soft players so we can say, we now have a sniper and a playmaker! Wow!
Are the Rangers supposed to just stick with "grinders" in their lineup? Honestly, I don't care all too much if my offensive players are perceived as "soft" -- as long as they break games open, and score goals/create goals, why should I care about anything else he does? We're not talking about someone who is a liability -- Gaborik is good defensively for a player who is cosidered an "elite offensive talent". Better than the likes of an Ilya Kovalchuk or an Alex Ovechkin.

Can you be disappointed with Gaborik's production last season? Sure. But to point to those totals being that way due to him being "soft"? No, that is blatantly false.

As for Richards, it's the same. If the guy puts up 80ish points, who cares if he's soft?

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06-19-2011, 08:45 PM
  #93
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A tad snakebit? When are some of you hf posters gonna wake up and smell the coffee? Maryjane is just typical of so many eastern european players in that he detests contact, floats on the outside and most importantly, he just doesn't compete and leave it out on the ice every nite. This is a cultural thing with eastern european players, they like to style and profile but almost never get their hands dirty and compete.
I detest players like maryjane and I wish they never signed him. If you watched the stanley cup playoffs, you see what works and what it takes to win. That's why the bruins won the cup and the canucks with all their regular season success and accolades stunk up the place and embarrassed themselves specifically the sedins(and their skill and compete level dwarfs maryjane's by the way) a player like maryjane will never play a whole season and will never compete enough to have any degree of success in the playoffs should we one day make it past the first round.
I say trade him, see if we can dupe some team like atlanta/winnepeg or florida into giving us some decent pieces in return for him.
Is that you Don Cherry?

We need good young canadian boys like Joe Thornton, Patrick Marleau and Dany Heatley. They always come through in the clutch.

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06-19-2011, 09:06 PM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Boyle View Post
Are the Rangers supposed to just stick with "grinders" in their lineup? Honestly, I don't care all too much if my offensive players are perceived as "soft" -- as long as they break games open, and score goals/create goals, why should I care about anything else he does? We're not talking about someone who is a liability -- Gaborik is good defensively for a player who is cosidered an "elite offensive talent". Better than the likes of an Ilya Kovalchuk or an Alex Ovechkin.

Can you be disappointed with Gaborik's production last season? Sure. But to point to those totals being that way due to him being "soft"? No, that is blatantly false.

As for Richards, it's the same. If the guy puts up 80ish points, who cares if he's soft?
Soft does not work in the playoffs. What part of that don't you understand? The playoffs are a whole different ballgame where physicality, compete level, creating time and space, are all of paramount importance. Why do you think the rangers traded away mike gartner, tony amonte, darren turcotte, james patrick, for steve larmer, brian noonen, stephan matteau, and glen anderson? The answer is that mike keenan perceived those players as being too soft and not gritty and physical enough to win a cup with. Guess he knew what the hell he was doing, right?
You keep maryjane and sign another soft player in brad richards(who by the way has put up over 30 goals only once in his career), you'll be tying up 15 mil in 2 players who aren't nearly gritty enough to compete the the bruins and flyers of the world to name just 2 teams. It's not about being one of 8 teams to make the playoffs, its about making a legit run for a cup!
I rest my case.

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06-19-2011, 09:10 PM
  #95
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Stereotyping players based on where they were born is absolutely ridiculous, but the fact remains that Championship caliber teams are stocked with players who aren't "soft". To clarify, I don't just mean players who shy away from physical contact; I mean players who don't have to mental fortitude to work through difficult situations, to be resilient when asked to do something outside of their comfort zone, and who aren't driven to win with a high compete level.

I don't care where you were born if you have a high compete level, work ethic, and will to win (Krejci, Czech = Yay; Marleau, Canadian = Nay). Gaborik, thus far in his career, has not exhibited those things. Blame it on being "snakebitten" or injured, but there were large stretches of last season (and a good bit of his Wild tenure) where he simply looked disengaged. I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt based on how he produced in 09-10, but it doesn't look good at the present moment.

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06-19-2011, 09:19 PM
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zetterqvist24 View Post
But he doesn't and he won't and truthfully, he can't.

He can score 80+ points SOME years. Gaborik isn't a "proven" 80 point per year player though and I'm not sure why everyone wants to act like he is. He had one 86 point season. He's 29. How is that 86 points a year? Between health concerns and compete level, Gaborik is simply not a player who can be relied upon for CONSISTENT 80 point seasons.

I hate to be that guy but expecting anything more than ~60-70 games and ~50-70 points out of Gaborik each year is simply expecting too much. He'll exceed those numbers sometimes, but if you're expecting him to do better annually, prepare to be disappointed.



You're the one holding him to the standard he can't fulfill. He isn't a reliable, consistent or proven 80 points per season player. The fact that he did so well in his first season here with a mix of Dubinsky, Prospal and Christensen proves MY point. It's not about his linemates; it's all on him. It's on his health, obviously, and then it's all on his compete level and his confidence. Gaborik simply didn't BRING it last year. And if anything else were the truth, our coach wouldn't have been keeping him on the bench for nearly entire periods at times. You can say whatever you want to, but it is 100% accurate that if Gaborik played HIS game but with the intensity that Prust brings to his own game, than he would be the consistent 80+ point guy YOU seem to think he realistically is. He obviously has the skill. It's all on him to consistently find that other gear that separates the highly skilled floaters like Zherdev from the highly skilled superstars.
Some good points here! Maryjane has never been healthy enough in his career to show that he can consistently produce at an elite level. That's really the big issue here. He is 29 yrs old but his body is breaking down and a lot of the vaunted speed he had early in his career with minnesota is flat out gone. Does he have a great shot and quick release? Yes.
The bigger picture is I think his game and willingness to compete has been compromised greatly by his injuries. I don't see it guys with or without brad richards. Hope I end up being wrong!

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06-19-2011, 09:37 PM
  #97
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Some good points here! Maryjane has never been healthy enough in his career to show that he can consistently produce at an elite level. That's really the big issue here. He is 29 yrs old but his body is breaking down and a lot of the vaunted speed he had early in his career with Minnesota is flat out gone. Does he have a great shot and quick release? Yes.
The bigger picture is I think his game and willingness to compete has been compromised greatly by his injuries. I don't see it guys with or without brad richards. Hope I end up being wrong!
Minnesota did not even offer him a contract.
Nobody offered him the money slats gave him.
Another example of bidding against ourselves.

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06-19-2011, 09:44 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by 4th Line Grinder View Post
Soft does not work in the playoffs. What part of that don't you understand? The playoffs are a whole different ballgame where physicality, compete level, creating time and space, are all of paramount importance. Why do you think the rangers traded away mike gartner, tony amonte, darren turcotte, james patrick, for steve larmer, brian noonen, stephan matteau, and glen anderson? The answer is that mike keenan perceived those players as being too soft and not gritty and physical enough to win a cup with. Guess he knew what the hell he was doing, right?
You keep maryjane and sign another soft player in brad richards(who by the way has put up over 30 goals only once in his career), you'll be tying up 15 mil in 2 players who aren't nearly gritty enough to compete the the bruins and flyers of the world to name just 2 teams. It's not about being one of 8 teams to make the playoffs, its about making a legit run for a cup!
I rest my case.
Stop being a hater. If it were up to you, we would be fighting for the eighth spot every single year until Hank's retirement.

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06-19-2011, 10:11 PM
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zetterqvist24 View Post
Again, what makes heart and skill mutually exclusive? Who is saying anything about "heart alone"? Is his skill going to disappear if he plays a more intense game? Asking Gaborik to play with more heart or intensity or whatever you want to call it isn't like saying "Hey Gabby, can you maybe trade some of your skill away for some heart?"... he HAS the skill to perform much better, but he doesn't play with enough drive a lot of the time. I don't know how anyone can even argue with that concept; Gaborik is simply NOT a hungry, driven player. If he was, he'd be a lot more effective.
Wow, a ranger fan who actually gets it about maryjane.and what he is as a player.
I just wish they would send him packing.

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06-19-2011, 10:17 PM
  #100
Glen Teflon Sather
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBlues View Post
He played more games than he should have. His game was a mess. Not getting open, not getting shots on goal. And the accuracy of his shots suffered as well.
He cannot be depended on to play big minutes every night. His body will not allow it. And the way this team is built other teams just focus on him and beat him down.
Trade him while he still has value.
Bravo! Eureka, finally a ranger fan who agrees with me to send that sorry sack of crap maryjane packing! If he plays this year like he did last year, I'll be happy to drive him to the airport

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