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Howard Eskin of 610 WIP: Front Office Open to Trading Richards or Carter

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Old
06-20-2011, 07:48 AM
  #326
DUHockey9
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Originally Posted by JVR21 View Post
I saw on twitter that Eskin reported the Flyers are telling teams interested in Carle that they must take Versteeg with him.
Trying to set aside my disdain for Eskin for a moment...

I just find that hard to believe. Not many teams can take on over 6.5 million so readily. I guess if we took back a reasonable contract in the 2 million range, it might be easier.

Or at the very least, I should say teams may not be so eager to take on over 6.5 million in trades without exploring the FA route first. (Unless you're Homer, then you LOVE trading for and spending all of your cap space minutes before FA beings!)

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06-20-2011, 08:00 AM
  #327
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Originally Posted by DUHockey9 View Post
Trying to set aside my disdain for Eskin for a moment...

I just find that hard to believe. Not many teams can take on over 6.5 million so readily. I guess if we took back a reasonable contract in the 2 million range, it might be easier.

Or at the very least, I should say teams may not be so eager to take on over 6.5 million in trades without exploring the FA route first. (Unless you're Homer, then you LOVE trading for and spending all of your cap space minutes before FA beings!)
I agree, it makes little to no sense and I think Eskin is just flat out totally full of poop.

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06-20-2011, 09:21 AM
  #328
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
I guess the NHL is a pretty easy league to play in, then.
and I said that where....?

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Old
06-20-2011, 09:24 AM
  #329
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Originally Posted by RJ8812 View Post
and I said that where....?
When you suggested that a "lazy POS" player can put up both the primary and peripheral numbers that Carter does.

Lazy players don't come back from an offseason absolutely jacked.

Lazy players don't show immense improvement in their defensive play.

Lazy players don't improve in little things like winning draws.

There are absolutely flaws to Carter's game, but laziness isn't one of 'em.

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06-20-2011, 09:35 AM
  #330
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Originally Posted by RJ8812 View Post
Carter is a lazy POS, and Cartiephan isnt going to change my opinion about him

if there's any player I want gone on this team before anyone else, it's Carter without question
You then do not have a clue about hockey then do you?!

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06-20-2011, 09:55 AM
  #331
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
When you suggested that a "lazy POS" player can put up both the primary and peripheral numbers that Carter does.

Lazy players don't come back from an offseason absolutely jacked.

Lazy players don't show immense improvement in their defensive play.

Lazy players don't improve in little things like winning draws.

There are absolutely flaws to Carter's game, but laziness isn't one of 'em.
It's the gripe du jour. Carter's strides don't make him look like he is busting his ass so people accuse.

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Old
06-20-2011, 09:59 AM
  #332
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It's the gripe du jour. Carter's strides don't make him look like he is busting his ass so people accuse.
Yea.

I'm meh on Carter as a whole, but do not want to trade him because I recognize how hard it is to replace what he can do.

People just want Carter to be a pure hussle guy like Richards or Powe or something. Instead, he effortlessly skates around and people think he's lazy. Honestly, sometimes he pisses me off to no end and I do think he isn't putting forth enough effort. But whatever, he scores 35 goals. I can deal.

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06-20-2011, 10:16 AM
  #333
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Originally Posted by DUHockey9 View Post
Yea.

I'm meh on Carter as a whole, but do not want to trade him because I recognize how hard it is to replace what he can do.

People just want Carter to be a pure hussle guy like Richards or Powe or something. Instead, he effortlessly skates around and people think he's lazy. Honestly, sometimes he pisses me off to no end and I do think he isn't putting forth enough effort. But whatever, he scores 35 goals. I can deal.
Yep, it's all about style. Part of the reason Richards looks like he's "trying" so hard out there is because he isn't that great of a skater and it shows when he's going from Point A to B. Carter, on the other hand, is a fantastic skater so it appears he isn't working all that hard to get from Point A to B when, in fact, he's probably getting their faster than pretty much any other forward on the team outside of a couple.

Same type of crap we saw with Gagne, who was always criticized for being lazy because he would be "floating" around in the slot and whatnot. Nevermind that he was a shooter and if you're going to score goals as a shooter you need to be floating into space to get your shot off. Same stuff Brett Hull did throughout his entire career. Sometimes moving slowly isn't being lazy... nor is straying away from "play" a bit necessarily lazy if you're looking to be the release valve for a pass and scoring chance when the puck is won.

If Carter was a lazy player he would not have led the forwards on this team in +/-ON/60 in two of the last three seasons. Carter was easily our best all-around forward this past season at even strength. You don't do that if you're a "lazy POS" on a team this talented.

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Old
06-20-2011, 10:18 AM
  #334
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He's streaky and not particularly physical the way we want him to be. However, when on his game and getting involved it's refreshing and he's very productive..so it's not like he's not capable. I don't consider him any more lazy though than any other player that has to grind through an 82 game season. Lazy to me are players like Falloon or Daigle....total DAWGS!

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06-20-2011, 10:22 AM
  #335
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
When you suggested that a "lazy POS" player can put up both the primary and peripheral numbers that Carter does.

Lazy players don't come back from an offseason absolutely jacked.

Lazy players don't show immense improvement in their defensive play.

Lazy players don't improve in little things like winning draws.

There are absolutely flaws to Carter's game, but laziness isn't one of 'em.

so what would you describe his playoff career as?

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Old
06-20-2011, 10:23 AM
  #336
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Originally Posted by RJ8812 View Post
so what would you describe his playoff career as?
Injured?

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Old
06-20-2011, 10:29 AM
  #337
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Originally Posted by DrDoom View Post
He's streaky and not particularly physical the way we want him to be. However, when on his game and getting involved it's refreshing and he's very productive..so it's not like he's not capable. I don't consider him any more lazy though than any other player that has to grind through an 82 game season. Lazy to me are players like Falloon or Daigle....total DAWGS!

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06-20-2011, 10:29 AM
  #338
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Injured?
And the one playoff run he wasn't injured, 2008, his production was equal to his regular season production.

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Old
06-20-2011, 10:30 AM
  #339
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Originally Posted by RJ8812 View Post
so what would you describe his playoff career as?
Go check out Pavel Datsyuk.... is he a "lazy POS"?

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06-20-2011, 10:36 AM
  #340
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Originally Posted by dookie88 View Post
If that's true be prepared for a rather surprising and probably significant UFA signing.

We don't need to trade both.
If Carle and Versteeg together got us a 1st or a high 2nd and good prospect, I'd love to see Leino back and a big, physical 3rd pairing defenseman signed. Don't know if O'Donnell can come back one more time. Even if he does, it might make sense to go with 13 forwards and 8 defensemen again, if possible.

Hartnell-Briere-Leino
Read-Giroux-Carter
JVR-Richards-Nodl
Powe-Betts-Rinaldo
Shelley

Pronger-Gustafsson
Timonen-Coburn
Meszaros-UFA
O'Donnell, Bartulis

Bryzgalov
Bobrovsky


If 8 defensemen can be made to fit under the cap, I would be extremely excited to start the season like that.

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06-20-2011, 10:38 AM
  #341
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Florida may have a tough time hitting the cap floor, and they were rumored to be interested in Versteeg. Perhaps Carle+Versteeg would make some sense going to them. Though if we're trying to package like that, we're not going to get nearly as much value as I thought.

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Old
06-20-2011, 10:39 AM
  #342
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Go check out Pavel Datsyuk.... is he a "lazy POS"?
you're comparing Datsyuk to Carter?

Carter's playoff career is the complete opposite to Datsyuk's

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Old
06-20-2011, 10:45 AM
  #343
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Originally Posted by RJ8812 View Post
you're comparing Datsyuk to Carter?

Carter's playoff career is the complete opposite to Datsyuk's
Hook. Line. Sinker.

Datsyuk's first 42 playoff games: 15 pts (0.36 PPG)

Carter's first 47 playoff games: 21 pts (0.45 PPG)

Carter was also dealing with significant injuries for most of those games.

We could do this exercise with some other players. How about the Sedins?

Henrik Sedin's first 43 playoff games: 20 pts

Daniel Sedin's first 43 playoff games: 18 pts

How about Gagne, who is now known for scoring "big goals?"

Simon Gagne first 41 playoff games: 18 pts

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06-20-2011, 10:50 AM
  #344
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Hook. Line. Sinker.

Datsyuk's first 42 playoff games: 15 pts (0.36 PPG)

Carter's first 47 playoff games: 21 pts (0.45 PPG)

Carter was also dealing with significant injuries for most of those games.

We could do this exercise with some other players. How about the Sedins?

Henrik Sedin's first 43 playoff games: 20 pts

Daniel Sedin's first 43 playoff games: 18 pts

How about Gagne, who is now known for scoring "big goals?"

Simon Gagne first 41 playoff games: 18 pts
Oh ok, so because Datsyuk improved in the playoffs as he got older, Carter will as well? I forgot that every player does that in their career

I didn't know it was that simple

oh and btw, Gagne was never a playoff plerformer with us either, aside from 2 series (TB in 04, BOS in 10), he was usually invisible

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06-20-2011, 10:57 AM
  #345
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Originally Posted by RJ8812 View Post
you're comparing Datsyuk to Carter?

Carter's playoff career is the complete opposite to Datsyuk's
let me guess. You want Ryan Kelser on this team over Jeff Carter.

Carters been injured. the guy has had some bad luck when it comes to injuries. I guess a seperated shoulder, 2 broken feet and a sprained knee ligament arent big deals tho right? he still should be playing at a high level with those type of injuries.
Some people are beyond clueless and are ****ing blinded by hate.

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Old
06-20-2011, 10:59 AM
  #346
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let me guess. You want Ryan Kelser on this team over Jeff Carter.

Carters been injured. the guy has had some bad luck when it comes to injuries. I guess a seperated shoulder, 2 broken feet and a sprained knee ligament arent big deals tho right? he still should be playing at a high level with those type of injuries.
Some people are beyond clueless and a ****ing blinded by hate.
so he's always injured come playoff time?

there's another reason to ship him out

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06-20-2011, 11:01 AM
  #347
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Originally Posted by RJ8812 View Post
Oh ok, so because Datsyuk improved in the playoffs as he got older, Carter will as well? I forgot that every player does that in their career

I didn't know it was that simple

oh and btw, Gagne was never a playoff plerformer with us either, aside from 2 series (TB in 04, BOS in 10), he was usually invisible
Basically it's a matter of if you're a statistics guy or not. (Statistics guys will tell you there is no such thing as NOT being one of them. You can't argue numbers after all.)

If you are...Carter (or anyone) tends to produce at a certain points per game. It is just, flat out, what he is capable of as a player.

Over a large enough sample size, statistics guys believe Carter's playoff numbers will come out right around what his points per game is.

Jester's examples were merely showing other good players who's small playoff sample sizes weren't indicative of their actual ability.

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06-20-2011, 11:03 AM
  #348
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Originally Posted by DUHockey9 View Post
Basically it's a matter of if you're a statistics guy or not. (Statistics guys will tell you there is no such thing as NOT being one of them. You can't argue numbers after all.)

If you are...Carter (or anyone) tends to produce at a certain points per game. It is just, flat out, what he is capable of as a player.

Over a large enough sample size, statistics guys believe Carter's playoff numbers will come out right around what his points per game is.

Jester's examples were merely showing other good players who's small playoff sample sizes weren't indicative of their actual ability.
ya, i know exactly what he was doing

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06-20-2011, 11:03 AM
  #349
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so he's always injured come playoff time?

there's another reason to ship him out
So because the guy has suffered a couple of bad luck injuries you want to ship him out. LOL.
unbelievable.

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06-20-2011, 11:05 AM
  #350
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So because the guy has suffered a couple of bad luck injuries you want to ship him out. LOL.
unbelievable.
so because the guy hasnt performed at all in the playoffs because he's always injured, you want to keep him around because the odds our in our favour for him to turn it around? LOL
unbelievable

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