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Old
06-20-2011, 10:48 AM
  #26
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LeClair wasn't known for his toughness. Big difference. (Show me the money!)

With backs, it all depends on how much one can endure. I dont see this being a problem with Pronger.
Yeah, I don't even know how to respond to that. Dude was known for going to the front of the net and taking a beating to score dirty goals... he was absolutely known for his toughness. In 4 full seasons in Philly prior to the herniated disc he'd missed a grand total of 6 games playing an absolutely brutal style of hockey for his body.

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06-20-2011, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Viller View Post
LeClair wasn't known for his toughness. Big difference. (Show me the money!)

With backs, it all depends on how much one can endure. I dont see this being a problem with Pronger.
Wow...just wow. As probably my favorite Flyer of all time, I can't even understand how you developed this opinion.

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06-20-2011, 10:55 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viller View Post
LeClair wasn't known for his toughness. Big difference. (Show me the money!)

With backs, it all depends on how much one can endure. I dont see this being a problem with Pronger.
LeClair's biggest asset was his toughness

what are you talking about?

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06-20-2011, 11:20 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viller View Post
LeClair wasn't known for his toughness. Big difference. (Show me the money!)

With backs, it all depends on how much one can endure. I dont see this being a problem with Pronger.
Shown: Not being tough, apparently




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06-20-2011, 11:49 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Well, the real downer is that ideally they don't perform surgery for herniated discs... the fact that they jumped so immediately to that solution suggests this was non-trivial even for such an injury. Though, it may speed up his recovery relative to next season.
Actually, discectomies are pretty common for these guys, from what I've been told. How common they are on athletes I can't say. I read online that herniated discs are rarely operated on, but then my fiance told me she see's multiple people a week coming in for pre and post op for these surgeries.

There is a video somewhere online of the surgeon I'm talking about discussing Pronger's procedure. I watched it a while back, about right after he had surgery, and what I remembered is that he said it was a common procedure but that the risk of herniating another disc increases. However, I'm pretty sure he said its still only like a 5% chance or something like that.

Regardless you never want to see anyone with back problems, but hopefully this isn't something that lingers. I'm thinking that's why the elected for the surgery, and why they didn't hesitate.

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06-20-2011, 11:52 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Protest View Post
Actually, discectomies are pretty common for these guys, from what I've been told. How common they are on athletes I can't say. I read online that herniated discs are rarely operated on, but then my fiance told me she see's multiple people a week coming in for pre and post op for these surgeries.

There is a video somewhere online of the surgeon I'm talking about discussing Pronger's procedure. I watched it a while back, about right after he had surgery, and what I remembered is that he said it was a common procedure but that the risk of herniating another disc increases. However, I'm pretty sure he said its still only like a 5% chance or something like that.

Regardless you never want to see anyone with back problems, but hopefully this isn't something that lingers. I'm thinking that's why the elected for the surgery, and why they didn't hesitate.
Well, sure, but that's a product of where she works... my fiance has worked on an oncology floor forever and she sees leukemia all the time.

In an ideal world, similar to Leighton, I think they try to avoid surgery if possible.

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06-20-2011, 12:15 PM
  #32
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Pronger played 50 regular season games this year. I don't see why 60 next year would be proposterous, he certainly isn't playing more than 70.

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06-20-2011, 12:21 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by trigzter View Post
Pronger played 50 regular season games this year. I don't see why 60 next year would be proposterous, he certainly isn't playing more than 70.
Based on what?

He had "active" injuries last year, largely of the bad luck variety... not sure why last year (unless you think his broken hand will be an issue again?) is all that indicative of the future. Now, the back problem is a cause for concern... but that wasn't why he missed time last year.

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06-20-2011, 12:22 PM
  #34
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Yeah, I don't even know how to respond to that. Dude was known for going to the front of the net and taking a beating to score dirty goals... he was absolutely known for his toughness. In 4 full seasons in Philly prior to the herniated disc he'd missed a grand total of 6 games playing an absolutely brutal style of hockey for his body.
I liked LeClair as much as the next Flyers fan during his years here but I dont know how the first thing that comes up to mind when you think of him is his toughness... The guy was a pure goal scorer and had an awesome shot.

I'm not saying the guy was a fairy, far from it. But it certainly aint the first thing that makes me appreciate him, Pronger on the other hand... the guy DIED on the ice and came back... Whatever, I was misunderstood or didn't explain myself properly, sorry.

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06-20-2011, 12:26 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Viller View Post
I liked LeClair as much as the next Flyers fan during his years here but I dont know how the first thing that comes up to mind when you think of him is his toughness... The guy was a pure goal scorer and had an awesome shot.

I'm not saying the guy was a fairy, far from it. But it certainly aint the first thing that makes me appreciate him, Pronger on the other hand... the guy DIED on the ice and came back... Whatever, I was misunderstood or didn't explain myself properly, sorry.
I don't really think of guys that play with shovels for sticks as being "pure goal scorer[s]". LeClair ground out his goals, and got the majority of his goals in the dirty areas of the ice. That's the definition of being a "tough" hockey player. He certainly had a powerful slapper, but that wasn't where he made his living in the NHL... he made it in a 15 ft radius around the crease.

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06-20-2011, 12:35 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Well, sure, but that's a product of where she works... my fiance has worked on an oncology floor forever and she sees leukemia all the time.

In an ideal world, similar to Leighton, I think they try to avoid surgery if possible.
Obviously they see more of that stuff than we do, but if it really were THAT rare it wouldn't be such a common procedure for her office. So, I don't think the surgery is as big as a red flag as I originally thought.

Each case is different so we don't really know, I mean they could have seen the x-rays and said "that's really bad we need to operate" Or it could have been "You could play with this but it'll bother you, however surgery we stop it from lingering."

I just think from the way she said he was talking about it, and from what I remember him saying in the video, that the surgery doesn't signal some catastrophe. Its just speculation, but I would think we have more reason to believe he'll play close to a full season going forward, rather than consistently missing 20 or 30 some games because of this injury.

A back problem is a back problem, but I think at this point we can be cautiously optimistic.

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06-20-2011, 12:35 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trigzter View Post
Pronger played 50 regular season games this year. I don't see why 60 next year would be proposterous, he certainly isn't playing more than 70.
Huh? Why can't he play more than 70?

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06-20-2011, 12:38 PM
  #38
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Well, if we are a lock for the playoffs he will undoubtedly be sat towards the end of the season...and he is one minor back problem away from missing X amount of games. It doesn't have to be lengthy, but 5 games is a decent amount. Not to mention any other factors that could contribute to him missing games. I don't think he is done, but I also don't expect him to play a full season either.

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06-20-2011, 12:46 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Protest View Post
Obviously they see more of that stuff than we do, but if it really were THAT rare it wouldn't be such a common procedure for her office. So, I don't think the surgery is as big as a red flag as I originally thought.

Each case is different so we don't really know, I mean they could have seen the x-rays and said "that's really bad we need to operate" Or it could have been "You could play with this but it'll bother you, however surgery we stop it from lingering."

I just think from the way she said he was talking about it, and from what I remember him saying in the video, that the surgery doesn't signal some catastrophe. Its just speculation, but I would think we have more reason to believe he'll play close to a full season going forward, rather than consistently missing 20 or 30 some games because of this injury.

A back problem is a back problem, but I think at this point we can be cautiously optimistic.
I mean, back problems are a pretty common thing in life...

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06-20-2011, 12:46 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by trigzter View Post
Well, if we are a lock for the playoffs he will undoubtedly be sat towards the end of the season...and he is one minor back problem away from missing X amount of games. It doesn't have to be lengthy, but 5 games is a decent amount. Not to mention any other factors that could contribute to him missing games. I don't think he is done, but I also don't expect him to play a full season either.
Seeding really really matters in the NHL... you cannot be giving away points and resting guys, it's always too tight to be doing that.

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06-20-2011, 12:54 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
I don't really think of guys that play with shovels for sticks as being "pure goal scorer[s]". LeClair ground out his goals, and got the majority of his goals in the dirty areas of the ice. That's the definition of being a "tough" hockey player. He certainly had a powerful slapper, but that wasn't where he made his living in the NHL... he made it in a 15 ft radius around the crease.
Thats your definition of being a tough hockey player. Not "the" definition...

edit: Opinions are like ass holes, everyone has one. Live with it.

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06-20-2011, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Viller View Post
Thats your definition of being a tough hockey player. Not "the" definition...

edit: Opinions are like ass holes, everyone has one. Live with it.
Who do you think is a tough hockey player?

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06-20-2011, 12:59 PM
  #43
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Well, the Caps might have something to say about the importance of seeding. The number 3,7, and 4 seeds, respectively, have represented the East in the SC the past three years. Healthy teams seem to make it further.

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06-20-2011, 01:04 PM
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Well, the Caps might have something to say about the importance of seeding. The number 3,7, and 4 seeds, respectively, have represented the East in the SC the past three years. Healthy teams seem to make it further.
The Caps are an exception for a host of reasons. Lackluster coaching, immaturity/lack of polish, weak defense without stellar goaltending to compensate, etc. They have an assload of talent but lack heart.

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06-20-2011, 04:01 PM
  #45
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Who do you think is a tough hockey player?
On this team? Toughess id say is Richards and Pronger. Lappy definataly was the toughess player this team has seen in a long long time.

I guess what im saying kinda falls into mental toughness also

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06-20-2011, 04:09 PM
  #46
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On this team? Toughess id say is Richards and Pronger. Lappy definataly was the toughess player this team has seen in a long long time.

I guess what im saying kinda falls into mental toughness also
Not sure how you can say Richards is tough and Leclair wasn't.

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06-20-2011, 04:23 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Viller View Post
Thats your definition of being a tough hockey player. Not "the" definition...

edit: Opinions are like ass holes, everyone has one. Live with it.
So, lemme get this straight... a guy that essentially makes his mark by playing in the 15 ft. area around the net, takes an absolute beating there... and just goes back for more... isn't "tough"?

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06-20-2011, 04:34 PM
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So, lemme get this straight... a guy that essentially makes his mark by playing in the 15 ft. area around the net, takes an absolute beating there... and just goes back for more... isn't "tough"?
Yeah, just going by what I did to the opponents working that area when I played... and then knowing that what the guys at the top level endures is a lot worse, I have the utmost respect for guys like Leclair, Holmström.

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06-20-2011, 04:41 PM
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So, lemme get this straight... a guy that essentially makes his mark by playing in the 15 ft. area around the net, takes an absolute beating there... and just goes back for more... isn't "tough"?
I never said he isn't tough. Going in front of the net is only a really small part of being a tough hockey player to me, it goes much much farther than that, again, to me.

But like I said earlier, mental toughness and physical toughness go hand in hand to me. One is just as important as the other.

edit: I'm kinda mixing in both, wich I shouldn't.

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06-20-2011, 04:42 PM
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Yeah, just going by what I did to the opponents working that area when I played... and then knowing that what the guys at the top level endures is a lot worse, I have the utmost respect for guys like Leclair, Holmström.
**** happens everywhere in hockey, not just corners and in front of the net. Your pretty ignorant if you believe so...

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