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The cap is suppose to be 64mill for next season

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Old
06-20-2011, 04:25 PM
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
I find it odd that folks are bringing up dumping Spacek in this thread. The cap going up to 64m just makes Spacek's salary a more reasonable portion of the budget, no? And means that Wiz (or whichever other UFA you'd pursue to replace Spacek) will get paid more? Doesn't it make sense that UFA salaries will be the first to get in line with inflation, followed by RFA's, and existing contracts will be increasingly affordable? If anything, this news should make one rethink how much of an albatross some of these contracts really are.
Because some team will need to reach the cap floor.

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06-20-2011, 04:34 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by bcv View Post
Because some team will need to reach the cap floor.
If that really becomes an issue (I doubt it will, but that's another argument), then Gomez is definitely available to cure all that ails those teams who underspent! I just don't feel the need to cut loose a serviceable defenseman who's contract just got more affordable.

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06-20-2011, 04:40 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
If that really becomes an issue (I doubt it will, but that's another argument), then Gomez is definitely available to cure all that ails those teams who underspent! I just don't feel the need to cut loose a serviceable defenseman who's contract just got more affordable.
Just not at the expense of losing Wisniewski, please.

3.8M for Spacek who contributes 20ish points per year or
4.8M for Wisniewski who contributes 40+ points per year and is no worse defensively.

I'd rather lose the extra mil in Cap space to keep Wisniewski and find a way to dump Spacek.

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Old
06-20-2011, 04:41 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
If that really becomes an issue (I doubt it will, but that's another argument), then Gomez is definitely available to cure all that ails those teams who underspent! I just don't feel the need to cut loose a serviceable defenseman who's contract just got more affordable.
And the d-men that fans dream of signing (Ehrhoff, Hejda, Bieksa, Pitkanen) just became more affordable perhaps to their respective teams. Prices could go up for UFA's not re-signed because the market becomes smaller as more d-men just stay at home?

It's too late in the day for me to think about this.

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06-20-2011, 04:54 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by JGRB View Post
Just not at the expense of losing Wisniewski, please.

3.8M for Spacek who contributes 20ish points per year or
4.8M for Wisniewski who contributes 40+ points per year and is no worse defensively.

I'd rather lose the extra mil in Cap space to keep Wisniewski and find a way to dump Spacek.
Well, I respectfully disagree with that bit.

There's also the issue of Spacek only having one year left, compared to younger options almost certainly requiring multi-year commitments. Spacek's contract ending at the same time that Price, Subban and Eller need to be re-signed is pretty perfect for the Habs.

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Old
06-21-2011, 06:20 AM
  #56
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This wishful thinking about unloading Spacek or Gomez amuses me. GMs don't have to trade for other teams' white elephants to reach the cap floor. They can tender offer sheets to RFAs or even give their best young players raises to extend their contracts past the age at which they would become UFAs.

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06-21-2011, 07:45 AM
  #57
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A contract idea for Markov

The problem with Markov is that he is injury prone and a liability - whatever the doctor says, he has not played much in the last 2 years. But we want him back with Montreal and with no other team.

Gauthier is has to take a chance.

But let us say he gives Markov 2M for 4 to 5 years - that is security for Markov and he stays in Montreal.
Markov gets injured again and his career is over, he does not hurt the team so much.

2 M is not enough, then if Markov play 60+ games, let big bonus come in, add 3M and if he gets 50 point + add bonus to the high level he plays.

The idea is if Markov plays he gets the all-star salary he deserves but if he is hurt again some security is provided.

Is this feasible or make any cap sense?

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06-21-2011, 07:51 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by MalcomOdd View Post
The problem with Markov is that he is injury prone and a liability - whatever the doctor says, he has not played much in the last 2 years. But we want him back with Montreal and with no other team.

Gauthier is has to take a chance.

But let us say he gives Markov 2M for 4 to 5 years - that is security for Markov and he stays in Montreal.
Markov gets injured again and his career is over, he does not hurt the team so much.

2 M is not enough, then if Markov play 60+ games, let big bonus come in, add 3M and if he gets 50 point + add bonus to the high level he plays.

The idea is if Markov plays he gets the all-star salary he deserves but if he is hurt again some security is provided.

Is this feasible or make any cap sense?

Even with the injuries, Markov is worth at least $5 million on the open market... probably closer to 6.

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Old
06-21-2011, 07:51 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MalcomOdd View Post
The problem with Markov is that he is injury prone and a liability - whatever the doctor says, he has not played much in the last 2 years. But we want him back with Montreal and with no other team.

Gauthier is has to take a chance.

But let us say he gives Markov 2M for 4 to 5 years - that is security for Markov and he stays in Montreal.
Markov gets injured again and his career is over, he does not hurt the team so much.

2 M is not enough, then if Markov play 60+ games, let big bonus come in, add 3M and if he gets 50 point + add bonus to the high level he plays.

The idea is if Markov plays he gets the all-star salary he deserves but if he is hurt again some security is provided.

Is this feasible or make any cap sense?
Don't get me wrong I like the idea and think it's fair but Markov will get offers on the open market for 5-6 million 3-6 seasons from teams willing to take the risk.

No way he signs here for a 2M + Bonus deal. I'd understand 4-4.5 mil + 1.5-2 in bonuses, even then I think he declines, but 2M would never fly.

Also I don't know the rules on players + bonus contracts.

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06-21-2011, 08:06 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by neofury View Post
Don't get me wrong I like the idea and think it's fair but Markov will get offers on the open market for 5-6 million 3-6 seasons from teams willing to take the risk.

No way he signs here for a 2M + Bonus deal. I'd understand 4-4.5 mil + 1.5-2 in bonuses, even then I think he declines, but 2M would never fly.

Also I don't know the rules on players + bonus contracts.
Pretty sure only ELC's and over 35 contracts can have bonuses.

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Old
06-21-2011, 08:15 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MalcomOdd View Post
The problem with Markov is that he is injury prone and a liability - whatever the doctor says, he has not played much in the last 2 years. But we want him back with Montreal and with no other team.

Gauthier is has to take a chance.

But let us say he gives Markov 2M for 4 to 5 years - that is security for Markov and he stays in Montreal.
Markov gets injured again and his career is over, he does not hurt the team so much.

2 M is not enough, then if Markov play 60+ games, let big bonus come in, add 3M and if he gets 50 point + add bonus to the high level he plays.

The idea is if Markov plays he gets the all-star salary he deserves but if he is hurt again some security is provided.

Is this feasible or make any cap sense?
Probably doesn't make sense for the Habs plus I don't think you can have bonuses on anything but 1 year deals. It has to be for a player having missed more than a certain number of games(Markov qualifies) or be 35+.

They could do 1 year at 2 mil plus 4-5 mil in bonuses, but from a cap standpoint it wouldn't make any sense as because it's the last year of the CBA, all bonuses count against the cap, so no cap savings even if he missed 75 games to injury.

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06-21-2011, 08:16 AM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Perrah View Post
Pretty sure only ELC's and over 35 contracts can have bonuses.
I think players having missed more than x amount of games due to injury can also have bonus laden contracts but only for 1 year.

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06-21-2011, 08:21 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
This wishful thinking about unloading Spacek or Gomez amuses me. GMs don't have to trade for other teams' white elephants to reach the cap floor. They can tender offer sheets to RFAs or even give their best young players raises to extend their contracts past the age at which they would become UFAs.
It makes no sense for a team like say, Florida to go after RFA's with offer sheets, their 2012 1st could be a lottery pick.

I can see them extending some of their young players, but those guys usually don't cost a fortune on the cap or already have contracts(does not impact the cap in 2011).

Sure they can go after major UFA's but the top 10-15 guys won't sign with Florida because they have other options(contenders). A lot of other UFA's would not only want big money but also term. By trading for a Spacek the Panthers can get to the cap floor, add a quality vet that won't corrupt their kids plus have a deal that expires next June so they don't get commited saalary long term.

Gomez this year is not an option, but next summer he could be a good fit with 10 mil in salary but 14.6 mil in cap taken up, especially if he can rebound to the 60 point range.

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Old
06-21-2011, 08:30 AM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
I think players having missed more than x amount of games due to injury can also have bonus laden contracts but only for 1 year.
You're close...

The three circumstances that allow for performance bonuses are entry level contracts, 35+ vets and players with over 400 games experience who spent 100 days on the IR in the last year of their contract. The bonus contracts for injured players can only be one year in length.

Markov could technically sign a bonus-laden one year deal with the Habs under the CBA. I'm pretty sure that won't happen. He'll probably want to net a longer, more secure term with the team.

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06-21-2011, 08:36 AM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LyleOdelein View Post
You're close...

The three circumstances that allow for performance bonuses are entry level contracts, 35+ vets and players with over 400 games experience who spent 100 days on the IR in the last year of their contract. The bonus contracts for injured players can only be one year in length.

Markov could technically sign a bonus-laden one year deal with the Habs under the CBA. I'm pretty sure that won't happen. He'll probably want to net a longer, more secure term with the team.
Thanks LyleOdelein, we can always count on you when the going gets tough!

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06-21-2011, 09:56 AM
  #66
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Some teams like Florida will have a hard time reaching the cap FLOOR.

Gauthier is probably trying or should try to trade them a guy like Spacek + Pouliot for some picks.

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Old
06-21-2011, 10:47 AM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
This wishful thinking about unloading Spacek or Gomez amuses me. GMs don't have to trade for other teams' white elephants to reach the cap floor. They can tender offer sheets to RFAs or even give their best young players raises to extend their contracts past the age at which they would become UFAs.
Let's have a little fun game shall we, it's called : (drum roll)

-FILL IN THE FLORIDA ROSTER to 48 MILLION!!!-

Tentative present lineup

F- Booth 4,250
F- Olesz 3,125
F- Weiss 3,100
F- Dadonov 0,875
F- Skille 0,825
F- Timmins 0,761
D- Kulikov 1,325
D- Weaver 0,900
D- Ellerby 0,787
D- Garrison 0,575
G- Clemmenson 1,200
BUYOUT 0,467

An 11 player roster of...... 18 million. With 30 million to fill in on 12 players, for an average of 2,5 mil to the cap for each player added.

Oh wait, it gets better.

There RFAs include : Steve Bernier (oh yeah, biiiiig payday there), Nicklas Bergfors (ok), Shawn Matthias, Michal Repik, Byron Bitz, Mike Santorelli.

Yup definetly, they should give them all 1,5 million $ raises. That'll make sense.

Wait it gets even better. Next season, there biggest ticket (future) is to be re-signed, so they can't sign that many players long term on the market either, if they want to limit spendings. Short term solutions will be brought in, and Spacek fills that mold perfectly. Mostly marginal players sign one year deals on the market, so considering the RFAs they already have to include, the players they'll get through trades and FA will have to cost a lot, and not be signed for too long. Both Gomez and Spacek fit the mold.

Not saying it will happen, but the arguments are valid, and the possbility is there.

And that's another thing. Limiting spending vs the cap floor. Gomez represents a rare opportunity for them to spend less than the cap floor

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Old
06-21-2011, 12:46 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
Let's have a little fun game shall we, it's called : (drum roll)

-FILL IN THE FLORIDA ROSTER to 48 MILLION!!!-

Tentative present lineup

F- Booth 4,250
F- Olesz 3,125
F- Weiss 3,100
F- Dadonov 0,875
F- Skille 0,825
F- Timmins 0,761
D- Kulikov 1,325
D- Weaver 0,900
D- Ellerby 0,787
D- Garrison 0,575
G- Clemmenson 1,200
BUYOUT 0,467

An 11 player roster of...... 18 million. With 30 million to fill in on 12 players, for an average of 2,5 mil to the cap for each player added.
I think that a team like Florida might actually end up using guys like Gudbranson and whoever they take first this year to help cushion the blow of getting to the cap floor. From what I understand, deferred salary counts against a team's cap hit in the year they play, even though the actual cash gets paid out after the bonuses are met (I could be wrong, reading the CBA is so dry I haven't done it in awhile).

If my memory serves me right, Florida could sign Gudbranson as a top 3 pick with a ton of bonuses, then have him play the year with with his 3M+ cap hit with bonuses to help them get to the floor. They would only have to worry about paying that full amount if he won the Calder, scored x amount of points and met all the other conditions. They could do the same with Landeskog or whoever they get this year and a couple other prospects like Oberg and Markstrom (if he's healthy).

30M is a lot of coin to make up but I can see teams taking advantage of rarely met bonuses on ELC deals as part of their plan to get over the floor in a less costly manner in the future.

As I said I could be wrong on this, are there any cap-sleuths that know this for sure?

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Old
06-21-2011, 12:53 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by LyleOdelein View Post
You're close...

The three circumstances that allow for performance bonuses are entry level contracts, 35+ vets and players with over 400 games experience who spent 100 days on the IR in the last year of their contract. The bonus contracts for injured players can only be one year in length.

Markov could technically sign a bonus-laden one year deal with the Habs under the CBA. I'm pretty sure that won't happen. He'll probably want to net a longer, more secure term with the team.
It would make no sense for the Habs to do that because the cap hit would be bonuses included as next year is a CBA year.

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Old
06-21-2011, 01:00 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
It would make no sense for the Habs to do that because the cap hit would be bonuses included as next year is a CBA year.
I was just laying out the circumstances that allow for performance bonuses. I meant to say that it was technically possible but that I don't think there is any way that PG would consider lowballing Markov in that manner.

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Old
06-21-2011, 04:23 PM
  #71
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Guys, was last years cap at 58M? And now, up to 64M? Wow, that's a huge jump....Wiz and Markov should both be with the Habs now...

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Old
06-21-2011, 04:35 PM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
This wishful thinking about unloading Spacek or Gomez amuses me. GMs don't have to trade for other teams' white elephants to reach the cap floor. They can tender offer sheets to RFAs or even give their best young players raises to extend their contracts past the age at which they would become UFAs.
Spacek is the ideal kind of player for a team trying to reach the floor, I'm not sure what you're talking about. I agree about Gomez, but Spacek is the exact kind of player teams like Florida should target. Not too expensive, only one year left, and they can ship him out at the deadline for younger assets.

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Old
06-21-2011, 05:51 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by MalcomOdd View Post
But let us say he gives Markov 2M for 4 to 5 years
That's just insulting. It's like your boss walked up to you at work and told you "So yea you've been getting sick days a lot lately. I'll give you 20k a year but I'll keep you around for 5 years.

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Old
06-23-2011, 06:24 PM
  #74
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NHLPA, NHL announce team payroll range for 2011-12
Thursday, 23.06.2011 / 6:59 PM / News
canadiens.com
PRESS RELEASE

NEW YORK/TORONTO (June 23, 2011) -- The National Hockey League and the National Hockey League Players’ Association announced today that the Team Payroll Range established for the 2011 League Year, pursuant to the Collective Bargaining Agreement, provides for a Lower Limit of $48.3 million, an Adjusted Midpoint of $56.3 million and an Upper Limit of $64.3 million.

http://canadiens.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=566933

Edit: Can a mod change the tread title since it's now official? Thanks.


Last edited by SB164: 06-23-2011 at 06:30 PM.
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Old
06-23-2011, 06:26 PM
  #75
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Yup, 64.3 Yikes. Might help us one way or another.

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