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In the never ending saga of concussions (See post #598)

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Old
06-21-2011, 12:50 AM
  #151
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Originally Posted by LadyStanley View Post
Perhaps it's based on the definition of "healed"?

The number of hours/days/weeks/months without symptoms before a player should be cleared to return to play?
Some players never heal mentally. Their psyche is always conscious of the next big hit; that play which will start things all over again. That alone can ruin players, especially the finesse types. You think a guy was hesitant to go through traffic before? Wait until after a concussion. This sort of thing has ruined many players. Krys Kolanos being a great example. He was given all the time in the world to heal but just was never the same.

The article is also misleading. A 2nd or 3rd concussion is more damaging than the first. While you aren't any more 'likely' to get a concussion, the consequences of getting one will be worse. It's like saying you got a concussion by playing hockey so by quitting hockey you will be less likely to get another concussion. We'll file that one under the 'no ****' section.

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06-21-2011, 06:47 AM
  #152
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Originally Posted by LadyStanley View Post
http://blogs.denverpost.com/avs/2011...er-notes/7453/



Perhaps it's based on the definition of "healed"?

The number of hours/days/weeks/months without symptoms before a player should be cleared to return to play?
I would definitely suspect that's the case, LadyStanley. Players are probably able to play and feel no symptoms, though the healing process may not be complete. And thus, a player in that condition could be more susceptible to being concussed again from another blow.

And as XX above said, some concussion injuries just aren't completely healable.

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06-21-2011, 07:25 AM
  #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XX View Post
Some players never heal mentally. Their psyche is always conscious of the next big hit; that play which will start things all over again. That alone can ruin players, especially the finesse types. You think a guy was hesitant to go through traffic before? Wait until after a concussion. This sort of thing has ruined many players. Krys Kolanos being a great example. He was given all the time in the world to heal but just was never the same.

The article is also misleading. A 2nd or 3rd concussion is more damaging than the first. While you aren't any more 'likely' to get a concussion, the consequences of getting one will be worse. It's like saying you got a concussion by playing hockey so by quitting hockey you will be less likely to get another concussion. We'll file that one under the 'no ****' section.


The psyche thing is a bit like the Zednik incident. He was never the same player after recovering from this.

PS: Boston

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06-29-2011, 03:54 PM
  #154
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Kariya blames head shots for shortening his career as he announces his retirement.

Suggests that minimum suspension for a head hit should be 10 games.

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06-29-2011, 03:59 PM
  #155
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before we start taking hitting right out of the game, please NHL, mandate soft pads back into the game. If the hitters are afraid of getting hurt, so bit it...

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06-29-2011, 10:35 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by MoreOrr View Post
However, there seems to be large and growing fanbase that are not satisfied with that answer.
And those fans aren't wrong for feeling that way. But there is no way to take concussions out of this game and still have it be the same game.

So as fans we have a choice...

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06-30-2011, 07:26 AM
  #157
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If the hit is going to be a penalty anyway, then go ahead with the suspension, but if its a legal hit with a shoulder and the guy gets a concussion, sorry, tough s*** ... IMO

can't protect everyone with a certain set of rules, everyones physiology is different

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06-30-2011, 07:39 AM
  #158
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Originally Posted by LadyStanley View Post
Kariya blames head shots for shortening his career as he announces his retirement.
And I blame Kariya for keeping his head down, leading to him getting smoked many times by big hitters.

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07-29-2011, 12:56 AM
  #159
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Bruins Savard unlikely to be ready for training camp. Still has headaches.

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08-02-2011, 11:42 AM
  #160
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I cannot understand the NHL's reluctance to introduce a zero tolerance on hits to the head. Other leagues are taking the proper steps and the NHL needs to do the same.
Quote:
The NFL doesn’t care about intent. It cares only about the harm suffered. If the head shot is deemed dangerous, the offending player is penalized. It doesn’t matter whether he meant to do it. The International Ice Hockey Federation, the U.S. National Collegiate Athletic Association, the Ontario Hockey League and the Quebec Major Junior Hockey League all prohibit any hit to the head regardless of whether it was intentional.

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08-03-2011, 10:20 AM
  #161
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http://www.stltoday.com/sports/hocke...9bb30f31a.html

Blues' Perron still suffering concussion symptoms; won't be ready for training camp/start of season.

(The hit occurred back in November)

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08-14-2011, 03:14 PM
  #162
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"Three sources" are telling XM radio guy that Crosby won't be ready for start of season.

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08-15-2011, 02:44 PM
  #163
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http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=373825
Pens GM says Crosby continuing off season workouts.

Quote:
Amidst rumours that Sidney Crosby's lingering concussion issues may have him still sitting into the start of next season, Pittsburgh Penguins general manager Ray Shero told the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review there's been nothing that has forced their star captain from shutting down his offseason training regimen.

But Shero did say that Crosby has had some recurrence of concussion symptoms.

"There are going to be some symptoms with this injury, but nothing where he's had to shut it down or anything," Shero told the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review on Sunday, adding that he was in contact with Crosby over the weekend.
So, sounds like things are progressing (back to normal).

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08-17-2011, 01:58 AM
  #164
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Another off ice issue impacting players: depression (often post concussion)

http://aol.sportingnews.com/nhl/stor...-winnipeg-jets

Quote:
Depression isn’t a topic that comes up often in NHL dressing rooms. It’s not a topic many players want to publicly take on. Hockey players are notorious for playing through injuries, so sharing that you might not want to compete because you’re depressed is a tough thing to do.

But Rypien’s death drives home the reality that depression exists among NHL players. This isn’t an isolated case.

Dr. Richard Lustberg, a sports psychologist, said an estimate that 12 percent of men in the U.S. deal with depression is probably too conservative. It’s safe to assume at least that much of the NHL player population is dealing with depression on some level. Rypien was far from alone.
...
“It runs statistical,” Lustberg said. “If you look at depression as biochemical, statistically, they have the same conditions everybody else does.”

Factor in the NHL’s issue with concussions, and the possibility of depression increases even more. Like many doctors, Lustberg believes there’s a link between concussions and depression.
...
Hall of Famer Pat LaFontaine said he dealt with depression while recovering from concussions. Bruins center Marc Savard did too.

Edit:
http://www.calgarysun.com/2011/08/17...family-floored
Source saying it was suicide.


Last edited by LadyStanley: 08-17-2011 at 02:08 AM.
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08-18-2011, 10:07 AM
  #165
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Considering the impact of concussions and depresson on the subculture of hockey enforcer/fighter.

Quote:
Buffalo Sabres general manager Darcy Regier, who talked about his sense Wednesday that there was a link to depression, spoke of reading about premature deaths among ex-football players and then thinking of the long list of hockey fighters who died young and/or were diagnosed postmortem with degenerative brain disease.
“I am not an expert but my personal view is I really think there is a relationship,” Mr. Regier said. “You read about problems in football, the dementia, early deaths and all that. To think that’s not going to happen to someone who is in 20 fights a year. …”

...
In a little more than a year, Mr. Rypien and three other current or former NHL fighters died prematurely. Bob Probert died at the age of 45 from a heart attack in July, 2010. Derek Boogaard, 28, died of an accidental overdose of alcohol and oxycodone on May 13, 2011 and Barry Potomski, 38, who played 68 NHL games over three seasons, died of a heart attack 13 days later. Every player except Mr. Potomski was known to have significant off-ice issues, although Mr. Rypien did not have a history of concussions in his NHL playing career.
This is not a recent phenomenon. In 1992, former Toronto Maple Leafs enforcer John Kordic died of a heart attack at the age of 27 after a confrontation with police that was fuelled by cocaine and steroids. Steve Durbano, considered one of the wildest players to ever skate for an NHL team, died of liver cancer at the age of 50 in 2002 after fighting substance-abuse for years. At 73, Reggie Fleming was almost 30 years older than Mr. Probert when he died in 2009 but both men were found to have degenerative brain disease.

Calgary Flames' sports psychologist wonders if Rypien's depression might have stemmed from the trigger of his girl friend dying in a car accident on the way to see him play in juniors.

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08-19-2011, 09:58 PM
  #166
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http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...articlecontent

Quote:
Gord Donnelly, an enforcer who spent 10 years in the NHL, recently told me how he started playing rough. “You play hockey because it's fun. But then you have to evolve into something else if you want to stay in the league. And that's hard, unless you are a really mean guy.”
Article looks at the mindset of a hockey player/enforcer and how they have to change how they approach the game to stay in the game. And how that may impact depression and/or effects of brain damage.

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08-23-2011, 03:12 PM
  #167
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The retirements of Paul Kariya and Dave Scatchard should send a big message to the NHL about concussions.

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08-24-2011, 10:34 PM
  #168
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http://penguins.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=587347&navid=DL|PIT|home

Quote:
Crosby Visits Leading Specialists
Wednesday, 08.24.2011 / 8:48 PM

The latest steps in Sidney Crosby’s recovery from a concussion have been visits to leading specialists around the country to monitor his progress.
Their conclusion is that he will make a full recovery – it just takes time.
Crosby is expected to be back in Pittsburgh in the next few weeks, where he will continue to work toward a return to the ice, although no specific timetable has been set.
...

Crosby, who suffered a concussion in January and missed the rest of the 2010-11 season, made significant progress over the summer and took part in his normal, rigorous off-season workout program – including skating, shooting, stickhandling and off-ice work.
When he got to 90 percent exertion in his workouts, however, he started having some headaches again. At that point, his doctors and trainers altered his workouts accordingly.
He recently has visited specialists in Michigan and Georgia.
I was curious about specialists on sports related concussions and found this program at the University of Michigan. (I don't know if that's where Crosby was assessed.)

http://neurosport.med.umich.edu/

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08-25-2011, 10:47 AM
  #169
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http://www.denverpost.com/avalanche/...377?source=rss

Avs Mueller wearing new helmet and tinted visor, hopes to be cleared at start of training camp.

Quote:
Mueller believes a new one-piece helmet — made by Easton Sports called the S19 Z-Shock — will help him stay healthy. Despite weighing only 325 grams, Easton claims the helmet exceeds minimum safety regulations of NHL helmets by as much as 40 percent. He'll also wear a new tinted visor designed to lower the potentially harmful effects bright lighting can have on concussion victims.
...
After several months when the symptoms failed to subside, Mueller was referred to Dr. Robert Cantu, a Boston University professor of neurosurgery who is a leading authority in sports-related brain injury. In a recent interview, Cantu said that once a concussion has fully healed, patients are no more susceptible to reinjury than anyone else. Mueller said he became better educated about the brain and his condition, and is quick to credit the Avalanche and its fans for staying patient with him.
http://blogs.denverpost.com/avs/2011...che%3A+Blog%29

And Dater's blog with further thoughts.

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08-25-2011, 10:50 AM
  #170
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http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/h...nHerald.com%29

Bruins' Horton ready to return.

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08-25-2011, 12:44 PM
  #171
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I dont understand Meuller's tinted visor - if he genuinely needs that to prevent headaches, isn't he by definition still suffering post-concussion symptoms?

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08-25-2011, 12:56 PM
  #172
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http://penguins.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=587347&navid=DL|PIT|home



I was curious about specialists on sports related concussions and found this program at the University of Michigan. (I don't know if that's where Crosby was assessed.)

http://neurosport.med.umich.edu/
I might be misunderstanding, because I will admit I know little about training regiments regarding concussions (so feel free to inform me ): Because I know so little, I will say my (admittedly) limited viewpoint, how much legalese is being used with Crosby (and legalese for future incidents). It was said he was "shut down" (whatever that means) by sources then his agent (and this article) says about "adjusting regiment accordingly". Forgive me for being dense, but there's a lot of vagueness here, what does this mean? How much do you "adjust accordingly" before it gets the point of "he's back to square one doing ONLY off ice exercises, but because he's still "exercising" he isn't "shut down", but rather "adjusted".

I guess I'm just concerned for Crosby and for future players that this sort of word play and legalese type wording is going to be used in future concussion situations-it (IMO) is putting the business ahead of the players health, and I don't think that's right.

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08-25-2011, 01:06 PM
  #173
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It means he's still not right, and nobody really knows how not-right that is, or when it will go away.

Here's hoping he gets right, regardless of the timetable!

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08-25-2011, 01:08 PM
  #174
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I might be misunderstanding, because I will admit I know little about training regiments regarding concussions (so feel free to inform me ): Because I know so little, I will say my (admittedly) limited viewpoint, how much legalese is being used with Crosby (and legalese for future incidents). It was said he was "shut down" (whatever that means) by sources then his agent (and this article) says about "adjusting regiment accordingly". Forgive me for being dense, but there's a lot of vagueness here, what does this mean? How much do you "adjust accordingly" before it gets the point of "he's back to square one doing ONLY off ice exercises, but because he's still "exercising" he isn't "shut down", but rather "adjusted".

I guess I'm just concerned for Crosby and for future players that this sort of word play and legalese type wording is going to be used in future concussion situations-it (IMO) is putting the business ahead of the players health, and I don't think that's right.

I'm not an expert either, but my layman's knowledge suggests that players are slowly allowed to train in 'exertion' increments. They start with light skating, alone, no contact. Their off-ice training is also carefully monitored. This is only allowed after they have no symptoms doing minimal, every day activities. If standing up makes you dizzy, or you get headaches, you won't be allowed to start exercise and training. Each time more activity is introduced, the player has to remain symptom-free. If symptoms reappear, they ratchet them down again. I believe what they were saying about Crosby is that he was very close to being allowed to skate and train at full throttle for a pro hockey player when he suffered his most recent setback. (We only get the 90% figure as a way to relate how close he was, but the full regimen isn't detailed).

Of course, in addition to reported symptoms by players, a neurologist would do assessments at each stage for motor, sensory and autonomic functions.

That link from the U of Michigan has some good educational content for those interested.

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08-25-2011, 01:23 PM
  #175
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It means he's still not right, and nobody really knows how not-right that is, or when it will go away.

Here's hoping he gets right, regardless of the timetable!

There are headaches and then there are migraines. Sensory disturbances (harsh light, too much light) can be triggers for migraines in the susceptible population, among other known triggers which can vary by the individual.




It's hard to know if it's the concussion or if he was a migraineur prior to the concussion. If light levels are the only thing that cause problems, and this can be mitigated with a visor (and sunglasses when he's outside), his doctors may have cleared him. However, like you, I would wonder if this is a good idea depending on his history and might seek a second or third opinion. There is something neurogenic going on.

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