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Rangers or Islanders

View Poll Results: Who wins the Cup First
Rangers 101 80.80%
Islanders 24 19.20%
Voters: 125. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
06-20-2011, 10:25 AM
  #76
Ruotsalainen29
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Originally Posted by PatientlyWaiting View Post
lol, 1 almost 40 goal scorer, a two time 30 goal scorer, and a 54 point player.

Go ahead, compare that to your team. Let me know where they slot in. They would be three of your best players, enstein.

If you want to argue that you're better, do it with facts.
PAP would be one of our 3 best players?

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06-20-2011, 05:59 PM
  #77
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It's not even close between the Rangers and Islanders.

The Rangers have one of the top 10 best defense in the NHL and will only get better.

Hank.... Nuff said.

The offense scored the 13 most goals in the NHL last year.
This team can contend for a cup next year.

The Isles haven't made the playoffs in 6 years or so and they were not close last year. They have a long way to go to compete for a cup.

The Rangers were ranked 7th on HF and the Isles were 6th so the prospects in the system are basically the same.

This is all on the ice and not even including the differences in ownership, arena and etc.

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06-20-2011, 06:01 PM
  #78
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I am very sure the Islanders won't be around long enough to win another championship.

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06-20-2011, 06:02 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by PatientlyWaiting View Post
lol, 1 almost 40 goal scorer, a two time 30 goal scorer, and a 54 point player.

Go ahead, compare that to your team. Let me know where they slot in. They would be three of your best players, enstein.

If you want to argue that you're better, do it with facts.
JT would be our best center.

PAP would be in the minors(like he was when he was here, surprise surprise). His 54 points really helped you guys tough it into the PO's, huh? Moulson's a nice complementary piece.

Now, would you like to talk defense and goaltending?

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06-20-2011, 11:45 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
Yes, he needs no protection!

I wonder if he would have the same balls if he had Staal - Giradi on the ice with him as oppossed to say Adam McQuaid or Johny Boychuck or better yet, Zdeno Chara...

Listen, you pegged me as a goon lover, I get it...nothing I write will change the rage you have for me.
Forget what I think of you.

We have a fundamental disagreement about the way the game is played and the value of physicality.

Good physical players don't need protection. Marchand does not need protection. Neither do Callahan or Dubinsky. Do you think those two Rangers would play tougher with Boston? I don't know how they could play tougher.

And, yes you are a goon lover. If you make tons of posts that indicate that, it seems idiotic to pretend you are not that. And your accompanying photo and name.

Why not just embrace the truth? Dagoon admits it. He is comfortable with it. You should do the same instead of waffling when called on it.


Last edited by chosen: 06-21-2011 at 04:58 AM.
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06-20-2011, 11:52 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by PatientlyWaiting View Post
lol, 1 almost 40 goal scorer, a two time 30 goal scorer, and a 54 point player.

Go ahead, compare that to your team. Let me know where they slot in. They would be three of your best players, enstein.

If you want to argue that you're better, do it with facts.
You misspelled Einstein, Einstein.

How about you tell us your starting goalie? Ours is Henrik Lundqvist.

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06-20-2011, 11:59 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PatientlyWaiting View Post
lol, 1 almost 40 goal scorer, a two time 30 goal scorer, and a 54 point player.

Go ahead, compare that to your team. Let me know where they slot in. They would be three of your best players, enstein.

If you want to argue that you're better, do it with facts.
Parenteau would hardly see the ice here. That he can score 50 points getting huge minutes doesn't outweigh the fact that's he awful away from the puck and wouldn't fit in our system. There's a reason we let him walk.

I love Moulson. I think he's a player in the Callahan/Dubinsky mold that would fit well here.

Grabner, I'm not yet sold on. I'm not saying that I think he'll prove to be a one year wonder, but I'd like to see more.

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06-21-2011, 12:05 AM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PatientlyWaiting View Post
lol, 1 almost 40 goal scorer, a two time 30 goal scorer, and a 54 point player.

Go ahead, compare that to your team. Let me know where they slot in. They would be three of your best players, enstein.

If you want to argue that you're better, do it with facts.
They have that many points due to the Dom Moore effect -- mediocre players on a God-awful team that produce more than they would on a good team. They aren't useless (well, PAP is useless), but they are nowhere near as good as they are as when they are getting huge minutes due to their former team sucking.

PAP would be in our minor league system still and Moulson would be on our 3rd line scoring about 40 points or so.

Just because your team is God-awful does not mean that your players would perform the same on a better team with better depth. Real life does not work that way. The only one who would get significant ice time here is Tavares. That's it.

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Old
06-21-2011, 12:07 AM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emma Royd View Post
Parenteau would hardly see the ice here. That he can score 50 points getting huge minutes doesn't outweigh the fact that's he awful away from the puck and wouldn't fit in our system. There's a reason we let him walk.

I love Moulson. I think he's a player in the Callahan/Dubinsky mold that would fit well here.

Grabner, I'm not yet sold on. I'm not saying that I think he'll prove to be a one year wonder, but I'd like to see more.
Yep, Moulson is in the Cally/Dubinsky mold. Just a poorer man's version of each of them.

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06-21-2011, 12:54 AM
  #85
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Did someone say that the Islanders are 2 pieces away from contending? What are those two pieces? Wayne Gretzky and a time machine?

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06-21-2011, 05:31 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
They have that many points due to the Dom Moore effect -- mediocre players on a God-awful team that produce more than they would on a good team. They aren't useless (well, PAP is useless), but they are nowhere near as good as they are as when they are getting huge minutes due to their former team sucking.

PAP would be in our minor league system still and Moulson would be on our 3rd line scoring about 40 points or so.

Just because your team is God-awful does not mean that your players would perform the same on a better team with better depth. Real life does not work that way. The only one who would get significant ice time here is Tavares. That's it.
Okposo would definitely get significant time here. Grabner has shown he would deserve significant time here. I think Bailey might prove to be deserving of major time here, going forward.

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06-21-2011, 06:53 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by SomE View Post
Did someone say that the Islanders are 2 pieces away from contending? What are those two pieces? Wayne Gretzky and a time machine?
Wouldn't be enough, but it wouldn't be enough for the Rangers, either.

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06-21-2011, 07:17 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
Forget what I think of you.

We have a fundamental disagreement about the way the game is played and the value of physicality.

Good physical players don't need protection. Marchand does not need protection. Neither do Callahan or Dubinsky. Do you think those two Rangers would play tougher with Boston? I don't know how they could play tougher.

And, yes you are a goon lover. If you make tons of posts that indicate that, it seems idiotic to pretend you are not that. And your accompanying photo and name.

Why not just embrace the truth? Dagoon admits it. He is comfortable with it. You should do the same instead of waffling when called on it.
Not sure if your sight is going but I never denied that I love the boys who can throw them...actually, I prefer them...seemed to work for the Bruins just fine.

I miss Colton Orr, love what he brought to the Rangers...funny how the Islanders just resigned Trevor Gillies but yet you would still see no need to have an answer for that...as long as there are guys like Gillies in the league, then you need an answer...unless you want Prust walking around with one shoulder again but someone like you wouldn't even realize that.

Do you think I care what you think of me...that was a good one....

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06-21-2011, 09:20 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
Not sure if your sight is going but I never denied that I love the boys who can throw them...actually, I prefer them...seemed to work for the Bruins just fine.

I miss Colton Orr, love what he brought to the Rangers...funny how the Islanders just resigned Trevor Gillies but yet you would still see no need to have an answer for that...as long as there are guys like Gillies in the league, then you need an answer...unless you want Prust walking around with one shoulder again but someone like you wouldn't even realize that.

Do you think I care what you think of me...that was a good one....
Ah yes, we need to spend money to counter TREVOR GILLIES. A joke of a player who shouldnt even be in the NHL.

Your logic is as if every other team has an evil goon who will hurt our players unless we have a white knight to save our guys. Actual logic dictates it doesn't work this way.

Gillies is going to throw dirty hits anyway, and is willing to fight anybody. So how does having our own heavyweight "deter" him? Does our "out for the common good" goon fight everybody as the other goons cower in his presence and play nice with everybody? Can our goon be deterred? (Well no right? Because "our guy" wouldn't throw dirty hits, he's just protecting our guys, duh)

And if Gillies' 3 minutes (just checked, 3:04 per game last year) per game somehow overlapped with our skill guys and he went after somebody, guess what? Our heavyweight wouldnt be on the ice. Oh but next time when Gillies takes a shift (maybe in the next period) our guy can slash at his calves until they drop the gloves, then they both go to the box for 5 minutes accomplishing...not much, other than the teams now playing 11 on 11 forwards wise.

Are we really just buying that 5 minutes Gillies is in the box and can't try to hit any of our guys? Because if he wasn't in the box, then what are the odds he would even be out on the ice in the 5 minutes after just taking a shift?


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06-21-2011, 09:30 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by allstar3970 View Post
Ah yes, we need to spend money to counter TREVOR GILLIES. A joke of a player who shouldnt even be in the NHL.

Your logic is as if every other team has an evil goon who will hurt our players unless we have a white knight to save our guys. Actual logic dictates it doesn't work this way.

Gillies is going to throw dirty hits anyway, and is willing to fight anybody. So how does having our own heavyweight "deter" him? Does our "out for the common good" goon fight everybody as the other goons cower in his presence and play nice with everybody? Can our goon be deterred? (Well no right? Because "our guy" wouldn't throw dirty hits, he's just protecting our guys, duh)

And if Gillies' 3 minutes (just checked, 3:04 per game last year) per game somehow overlapped with our skill guys and he went after somebody, guess what? Our heavyweight wouldnt be on the ice. Oh but next time when Gillies takes a shift (maybe in the next period) our guy can slash at his calves until they drop the gloves, then they both go to the box for 5 minutes accomplishing...not much, other than the teams now playing 11 on 11.

Are we really just buying that 5 minutes Gillies is in the box and can't try to hit any of our guys? Because if he wasn't in the box, then what are the odds he would even be out on the ice in the 5 minutes after just taking a shift?
Gillies, Haley, Martin, Hamonic, maybe Konokopa - Islanders
Clarkson, Mair, Fraser, Jay Leach - Devils
Adams, Asham, Cooke, Tangardi, Engelland, Orpil, left off Rupp - Pens
Carcillo, Shelley, Coburn, Hartnell - Flyers

Shall I continue?

you want to outskill everyone, that wont work...u have to have a blend, how many times do I have to say the same ****ing thing.

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06-21-2011, 09:41 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
Gillies, Haley, Martin, Hamonic, maybe Konokopa - Islanders
Clarkson, Mair, Fraser, Jay Leach - Devils
Adams, Asham, Cooke, Tangardi, Engelland, Orpil, left off Rupp - Pens
Carcillo, Shelley, Coburn, Hartnell - Flyers

Shall I continue?

you want to outskill everyone, that wont work...u have to have a blend, how many times do I have to say the same ****ing thing.
aaaaand how many times do I have to respond specifically to your pure goon posts only to have you respond with the mix of grit/skill argument that pretty much nobody is against.

The post i responded to had to do with you romanticizing your love for Colton Orr while referencing Trevor Gillies as a reason to carry a pure heavyweight fighter. Keep moving the goal posts though when you get called out for wanting to see guys who can barely skate take up roster spots.

Yes you have to blend. A guy who can pretty much only fight doesnt need to be part of that blend

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06-21-2011, 10:12 AM
  #92
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aaaaand how many times do I have to respond specifically to your pure goon posts only to have you respond with the mix of grit/skill argument that pretty much nobody is against.

The post i responded to had to do with you romanticizing your love for Colton Orr while referencing Trevor Gillies as a reason to carry a pure heavyweight fighter. Keep moving the goal posts though when you get called out for wanting to see guys who can barely skate take up roster spots.

Yes you have to blend. A guy who can pretty much only fight doesnt need to be part of that blend
I suggestted Bolton or Rupp...I didn't say McIntyre.

You can spin that however you want.

Colton Orr came to the Rangers strictly as a goon, Renney helped him develop into a guy he could trust on the PK and as a guy on the checking line.

Burke turned Orr back into a soley a goon.

I have a soft spot for guys who love being Rangers and who go out and do a very difficult job.

Orr wanted a 3 year 3 million dollar deal from the Rangers..that is a fair deal considering his age and his improvement as a player at the time. We gave Brasher more money and that backfired, Shelley got 1.1 from Flyers.

There are still goons in this league and almost every team in the East has one, yet we are going to roll out Prust to answer the bell because that is what he does, he protects guys who can't protect themselves, even when he has no business fighting the guys that he does. I want to protect Prust from himself. I view him as a valubale piece.

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06-21-2011, 10:13 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
Not sure if your sight is going but I never denied that I love the boys who can throw them...actually, I prefer them...seemed to work for the Bruins just fine.
Uu
I miss Colton Orr, love what he brought to the Rangers...funny how the Islanders just resigned Trevor Gillies but yet you would still see no need to have an answer for that...as long as there are guys like Gillies in the league, then you need an answer...unless you want Prust walking around with one shoulder again but someone like you wouldn't even realize that.

Do you think I care what you think of me...that was a good one....
Yes, we sure have missed what Colton brought to us.

You always do the same thing. You scream for goons. When called on it you fold and take the position that we need grit, which is what everyone else says.

Like the above poster pointed out.

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06-21-2011, 10:18 AM
  #94
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Yes, we sure have missed what Colton brought to us.

You always do the same thing. You scream for goons. When called on it you fold and take the position that we need grit, which is what everyone else says.

Like the above poster pointed out.
You might not miss him because u don't really understand hockey.

I love when two goons collide and throw bombs. Fold that and put it into your pocket.

However, I would like a goon who can play some hockey, like Eric Bolton, Mike Ruup or Shawn Thornton. When Thornton became a free agent in 2007, I told anyone who would listen that we should sign him...people said the same boring **** you are saying today, goons are gone and blah, blah, blah...but Shawn Thornton knows how to play hockey.

When drafting, I prefer a guy like Milan Lucic over a guy like Jussi Joniken...it is rather simple.

I have a stance, I prefer it...you want a bunch of figure skaters on the ice.

I am done...i am tired...u guys win...there are 7-8 guys on this board that all have the same opinion and it is tiring...u win. Have a nice life.

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06-21-2011, 10:21 AM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
I suggestted Bolton or Rupp...I didn't say McIntyre.

You can spin that however you want.

Colton Orr came to the Rangers strictly as a goon, Renney helped him develop into a guy he could trust on the PK and as a guy on the checking line.

Burke turned Orr back into a soley a goon.

I have a soft spot for guys who love being Rangers and who go out and do a very difficult job.

Orr wanted a 3 year 3 million dollar deal from the Rangers..that is a fair deal considering his age and his improvement as a player at the time. We gave Brasher more money and that backfired, Shelley got 1.1 from Flyers.

There are still goons in this league and almost every team in the East has one, yet we are going to roll out Prust to answer the bell because that is what he does, he protects guys who can't protect themselves, even when he has no business fighting the guys that he does. I want to protect Prust from himself. I view him as a valubale piece.
Well that's on Prust to check his ego at the door and realize that he's more than a fighter on this team and stop "answering the bell" all the time.

Again, your logic is that we should have a goon to fight other goons. Rarely are Heavyweight Vs. Heavyweight fights I see because of some heat of the moment protection of another player. It's always them being on the ice at the same time and kind of going "well we might as well, since we're both here and all" I dont think we need to pay a guy $1 million to do that.

you also ignored the part where i asked you justify how we would "deter" a guy like Gillies. Come playoff time those guys become irrelevant because they A) don't play B) Fights rarely happen, especially between "heavyweights"

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06-21-2011, 11:03 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
I suggestted Bolton or Rupp...I didn't say McIntyre.

You can spin that however you want.

Colton Orr came to the Rangers strictly as a goon, Renney helped him develop into a guy he could trust on the PK and as a guy on the checking line.

Burke turned Orr back into a soley a goon.

I have a soft spot for guys who love being Rangers and who go out and do a very difficult job.

Orr wanted a 3 year 3 million dollar deal from the Rangers..that is a fair deal considering his age and his improvement as a player at the time. We gave Brasher more money and that backfired, Shelley got 1.1 from Flyers.

There are still goons in this league and almost every team in the East has one, yet we are going to roll out Prust to answer the bell because that is what he does, he protects guys who can't protect themselves, even when he has no business fighting the guys that he does. I want to protect Prust from himself. I view him as a valubale piece.
Orr was turned back into a goon because he can barely skate and is not a good hockey player. Renney liked him because he worked hard, but nothing he did made him very useful. The great thing was the expectation for him was so low that he would participate in one cycle per game and everybody would be talking about his great "improvement".

Oh yeah and Orr was trusted so much on the ice on the PK...that here's his TOTAL PK ice time per year. (not PER GAME. Per SEASON)

05-06: 14 seconds
06-07: 10 seconds
07-08: 34 seconds.
08-09: 1 minute 20 seconds

so in his last season, he had 80 seconds of SH ice time in 82 games. Yeah, he was "trusted" on the PK.

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06-21-2011, 12:16 PM
  #97
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It's not unrealistic. If Stepan becomes a 75 point center, MDZ a 50 point defenseman and either Kreider or Thomas becomes a 40-goal scorers, the team will win the Cup, maybe more than one.

I am not saying all these things will happen, but it is not impossible.

If one of these fail, the team could always sign or trade for one free agent.


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Win a Cup in the next 3 years? The Stanley Cup? Oh wait, you mean the Kitchener Rangers will win the Memorial Cup in the next 3 years. Gotchya'. I don't follow the OHL, so not sure if that is realistic, but the Rangers winning a Stanley Cup in the next 3 years simply is not realistic. Yeah, I think you are being a homer, which is fine. Nothing wrong with that.

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06-21-2011, 12:43 PM
  #98
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Okposo would definitely get significant time here. Grabner has shown he would deserve significant time here. I think Bailey might prove to be deserving of major time here, going forward.
Okposo and Grabner don't top Callahan or Gaborik on the depth chart. Bailey is at about the same level as Stepan and Anisimov...I think Stepan's better but shares the inconsistency Bailey does and Anisimov isn't as good but has been more consistent.

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06-21-2011, 12:47 PM
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It's not unrealistic. If Stepan becomes a 75 point center, MDZ a 50 point defenseman and either Kreider or Thomas becomes a 40-goal scorers, the team will win the Cup, maybe more than one.

I am not saying all these things will happen, but it is not impossible.

If one of these fail, the team could always sign or trade for one free agent.
I don't think you even need all this to happen. If we sign Richards, Stepan can be a 50 to 60 point center. If MDZ doesn't become a 50 point center, we can put together a package of high draft picks and someone like Anisimov, maybe even with MDZ, for a guy that can contribute offensively on the blueline. After that, I do think Kreider or Thomas have to be significant top 6 players for us to be ready for a cup run in 2 years or so. That would give you: Kreider/Thomas, Richards, Gaborik, Dubinsky, Stepan, Callahan for the top 6 and players like Boyle, Prust, etc. scattered through the bottom 6...a good bottom 6. And the defense would speak for itself, Sauer and McDonagh are only going to get better defensively and Staal and Girardi are already one of the better top defensive pairings in the league IMO. Lundqvist is Lundqvist. All the defense is missing is that offensive guy, and we have the chips to trade for one when we're ready.

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06-21-2011, 01:01 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by Ruotsalainen29 View Post
PAP would be one of our 3 best players?
Would EC be their first line center?

The homer posts in this thread are funny.

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