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Nashville elects Salary Arbitration on Shea Weber

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06-18-2011, 05:44 PM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UniversalRemonster View Post
The fact that Weber has a new agent is not good for Nashville. It simply means that they disagreed and/or his previous agent lacks experience to get Weber the contract he wants. Weber may want to remain in Nashville but if it looks like Nashville doesn't want to pay what he is worth, he is going make it to UFA or be traded somewhere before that.
Your logic seems more like wishful thinking than anything grounded in rational thought. There's a myriad of reasons why someone would change representation in the midst of their first significant negotiation, and most of these reasons would have little consequence to the Preds actually signing Weber. I agree that it might represent bad news for Nashville. But, realistically speaking, it's most likely to be a non-story than the beginning of the end of Nashville and Weber.

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06-18-2011, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
Now everything points to the opposite-- Changing agents, Poile saying nothing is impending, Preds having to file for arbitration out of fear, which is a major bargaining chip for Weber's camp.
Talk me through this bargaining chip you are speaking of. I'm not as confident it's as major as you seem to think.

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06-18-2011, 07:18 PM
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i don't see this as good or bad just a necessary sidestep for management. given the change in representation and the reality of getting them up to speed and getting a contract before the deadline, management is just trying to extend the negotiating period that they have with said client. as the story sezs they are just protecting their exclusive negotiating rights. we don't know but i suspect something akin to lebron james and that he is expecting more pieces to be put around him in order to make the team more of a contender. not just their word that they will try to get some more O obviously, but something substantive FA market(which as the godfather said previously, is moving slow). .....so anything new on Rads????


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06-18-2011, 11:24 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UniversalRemonster View Post
The fact that Weber has a new agent is not good for Nashville. It simply means that they disagreed and/or his previous agent lacks experience to get Weber the contract he wants. Weber may want to remain in Nashville but if it looks like Nashville doesn't want to pay what he is worth, he is going make it to UFA or be traded somewhere before that.
Really? Meehan is inexperienced??



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Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
I don't see how this could be taken as good news.

People have been trying to say for a year+ that the Weber signing will be a breeze and it's just a matter of time. Now everything points to the opposite-- Changing agents, Poile saying nothing is impending, Preds having to file for arbitration out of fear, which is a major bargaining chip for Weber's camp.

In the end it might be "neutral news", but as for now, I don't see how this can be good news on the Weber contract front. This is a fear-based moved.

As for the theory that Meehan didn't want to get a lower-value contract-- I don't think that's the case. He could have easily negotiated a 30M+ contract (on the low-end), and now he has ZERO. So I don't think Weber dumped Meehan because he wanted commission on a couple more million.
so then why, oh pessimistic one, do you think he dumped him? Do you really think it was because he thought Meehan couldnt get him a BIG enough deal?

I am interested in what you think the motivation was

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06-20-2011, 09:43 PM
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Webs just gave himself a raise at Meehan's expense. Whatever the commission was going to be, you can now be sure that it is lower with the new agent. Not just on the $40M+ life of the contract (where he likely saves under $1M but might save $2M tops) but on endorsement deals where the savings could be much higher.

I think the Preds are building up to the SOTU where we see new deals for Webs and Suter and the two of them are modelling new jerseys.

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06-21-2011, 07:04 AM
  #31
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I think the Preds are building up to the SOTU where we see new deals for Webs and Suter and the two of them are modelling new jerseys.
When is that?

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06-21-2011, 09:13 AM
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july 13 or 14

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06-21-2011, 10:18 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by token grinder View Post
july 13 or 14
And I will be in Washington, D.C. for a training conference. Drat!!!


Someone MUST text me with the picture of the new one, PLEASE!!

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06-21-2011, 10:23 AM
  #34
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I don't buy all of these "keep it secret until x..." things. They know that the fanbase is sitting on the edge of a cliff waiting, and I think they also know that every day that Weber goes unsigned, a bruising perception grows.

I also think you guys are crazy if you think that they're going to unveil some triple signing with Weber, Suter and Rinne. It's not even in the best interests of Suter and Rinne...what if they go on to have career years, next season?

It's fun to think about, all of this, but it's also highly unlikely.

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06-21-2011, 10:29 AM
  #35
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I agree in that I don't see the team holding off on an announcement just so that it can be at the SkOTU. Using that forum to announce the new captain is one thing, but to announce a long term deal with your star player, maybe even a couple of your star players? I doubt it.

You do have a point, barry, in saying that Suter and Rinne could have career years next year, and that signing a deal right now could be a bad idea. To counter, they could also end up hurt next year. I don't think we will see them all three signed this summer, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Suter extended. I think Rinne holds out until next year.

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06-21-2011, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barrytrotzsneck View Post
I don't buy all of these "keep it secret until x..." things. They know that the fanbase is sitting on the edge of a cliff waiting, and I think they also know that every day that Weber goes unsigned, a bruising perception grows.

I also think you guys are crazy if you think that they're going to unveil some triple signing with Weber, Suter and Rinne. It's not even in the best interests of Suter and Rinne...what if they go on to have career years, next season?

It's fun to think about, all of this, but it's also highly unlikely.
are you kidding me?

I think that if offered large dollar, multi year extensions, Rinne and Suter would be absolute fools not to sign.

Both players could sign deals right now that will secure their financial future for life. Sure maybe if they have awesome seasons they could wring out an extra 4 or 5 million over the life of a contract but at the same time they are an injury away from having nothing or considerably less.

Rinne especially would be an idiot not to sign for 5yrs/25mil if poile offers it... goalies fortunes change so rapidly these days as we have seen in multiple places.

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06-21-2011, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
are you kidding me?

I think that if offered large dollar, multi year extensions, Rinne and Suter would be absolute fools not to sign.

Both players could sign deals right now that will secure their financial future for life. Sure maybe if they have awesome seasons they could wring out an extra 4 or 5 million over the life of a contract but at the same time they are an injury away from having nothing or considerably less.

Rinne especially would be an idiot not to sign for 5yrs/25mil if poile offers it... goalies fortunes change so rapidly these days as we have seen in multiple places.
How often does it happen? Not very, and there's a reason for it.

I think Rinne is much, MUCH more likely to sign an extension this summer, but it would be closer to training camp if it happens. Suter will likely come down to the wire.

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06-21-2011, 10:59 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barrytrotzsneck View Post
I don't buy all of these "keep it secret until x..." things. They know that the fanbase is sitting on the edge of a cliff waiting, and I think they also know that every day that Weber goes unsigned, a bruising perception grows.

I also think you guys are crazy if you think that they're going to unveil some triple signing with Weber, Suter and Rinne. It's not even in the best interests of Suter and Rinne...what if they go on to have career years, next season?

It's fun to think about, all of this, but it's also highly unlikely.
Disagree, most athletes don't want go into their last year of a contract without an extension.

If Suter and Rinne are not signed this summer, they'll hit FA market next.

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06-21-2011, 11:03 AM
  #39
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Disagree, most athletes don't want go into their last year of a contract without an extension.

If Suter and Rinne are not signed this summer, they'll hit FA market next.
in our history, the only one i can ever remember signing the summer before was Vokoun. Erat, Legwand, Dumont, to use recent examples, all signed in the early spring. I think that's the earliest you see us working on Rinne\Suter.

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06-21-2011, 11:22 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by barrytrotzsneck View Post
in our history, the only one i can ever remember signing the summer before was Vokoun. Erat, Legwand, Dumont, to use recent examples, all signed in the early spring. I think that's the earliest you see us working on Rinne\Suter.
Weren't Erat and Legwand RFA's when they signed?

I think when dealing with RFA's and UFA's the time tables are much different. I think we start negotiating right away with Suter and Rinne. The longer it goes, the harder it will be to re-sign them.

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06-21-2011, 11:24 AM
  #41
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Weren't Erat and Legwand RFA's when they signed?

I think when dealing with RFA's and UFA's the time tables are much different. I think we start negotiating right away with Suter and Rinne. The longer it goes, the harder it will be to re-sign them.
Legwand was UFA for sure, Erat may have had one more year as RFA.

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06-21-2011, 11:25 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
are you kidding me?

I think that if offered large dollar, multi year extensions, Rinne and Suter would be absolute fools not to sign.

Both players could sign deals right now that will secure their financial future for life. Sure maybe if they have awesome seasons they could wring out an extra 4 or 5 million over the life of a contract but at the same time they are an injury away from having nothing or considerably less.

Rinne especially would be an idiot not to sign for 5yrs/25mil if poile offers it... goalies fortunes change so rapidly these days as we have seen in multiple places.
I would agree for Suter because Norris-trophy caliber defense men do not grow on trees; but not for signing Peks to an extension early. Honestly you said it yourself about goalies fortunes changing rapidly. I see the Preds hanging on till the last minute to extend Peks w/ all of the goalies in the pipeline now and Mitch Korn behind the bench mentoring them. Think of the return we could get on Peks if Lindback, Dex, Smith, or whoever is challenging for icetime? As much as I love to watch Peks, I'm not 100% sold that he is in the same air of breath when mentioning Roy, Brodeur, Sawchuk, Glenn Hall, etc. that could command the extension to basically shut out those prospects w/ an early deal. Not Poile's style either...

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06-21-2011, 11:43 AM
  #43
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It's really hard to find consistent goalies and as good as Rinne has been, he hasn't done it long enough in my mind to warrant a big money extension. I want him around and think he's a stud but you have to do it for a period of time and he just hasn't done that yet. Guys like you mentioned Savage are rare entities. There are few goalies I would give big money contracts to at this point in the NHL. I think Vancouver screwed themselves with Luongo. I think a guy like Miller has been pretty good and long enough to warrant a deal. Lundqvist is another. If Price throws a few more seasons like he did this year he'll be in line for one. Rinne should be able to get a good deal but I'd like to see how he plays next year before doling one out.

I agree on your thoughts about Suter too. Guys like him don't grow on trees. He makes the entire team better because of his presence and we've spent a lot of time developing him. It would suck to lose him for nothing so I think we need to get an extension in place ASAP and keep Suter and Weber here a long long time. Knowing we'd have an elite pairing for 8-10 years would be a great thing for the team in the sense we'd have consistency on the back end and it would show the city and the NHL that we are players and not a farm team for other teams.

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06-21-2011, 12:11 PM
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Next season will be very telling of Rinne's future. He's no secret anymore. Goalie coaches across the league will spend hours upon hours watching this guy trying t o find his flaws and weaknesses. If there is something obviously wrong with his game that they notice, he wont be in Vezina contention for long. That is exactly what happened to Steve Mason after his rookie year. I think Rinne will be fine, but he just has to survive 3 months of detail scouting from opponents.

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06-21-2011, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by gopreds9 View Post
Next season will be very telling of Rinne's future. He's no secret anymore. Goalie coaches across the league will spend hours upon hours watching this guy trying t o find his flaws and weaknesses. If there is something obviously wrong with his game that they notice, he wont be in Vezina contention for long. That is exactly what happened to Steve Mason after his rookie year. I think Rinne will be fine, but he just has to survive 3 months of detail scouting from opponents.
I find this somewhat hard to believe given how much folks were talking about Rinne during that very same rookie year. But if you say so...

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06-21-2011, 12:28 PM
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I find this somewhat hard to believe given how much folks were talking about Rinne during that very same rookie year. But if you say so...
right. They found a flaw in Mason's game, which was exposed last year (didn't see enough of him to know what it is, but it happens all the time). His job now is to find out what they exposed and fix it this off-season. Rinne did not have a glaring deficiancy, so he survived. Hopefully that trend continues. They goalies that survive are the enigmas that are balanced and don't have one weak spot (glove, blocker, 5 hole, side-to-side, bad angles, etc.)

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06-21-2011, 12:49 PM
  #47
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right. They found a flaw in Mason's game, which was exposed last year (didn't see enough of him to know what it is, but it happens all the time). His job now is to find out what they exposed and fix it this off-season. Rinne did not have a glaring deficiancy, so he survived. Hopefully that trend continues. They goalies that survive are the enigmas that are balanced and don't have one weak spot (glove, blocker, 5 hole, side-to-side, bad angles, etc.)
High glove, but that was fixed remarkably quickly. In the end, it was actually ego, which caught everybody - himself included - by surprise.

See, Mason was kind of a funny case. He'd spent his entire life basically not being believed in, always being the underdog, and having to triumph above that. It led to something of a maturity beyond his years as he was quite capable of dealing with defeat and setbacks under those circumstances, because, y'know, nobody ever noticed. So he was always prepared to just Keep On Truckin' 'till he made it. When he finally was vindicated by winning the Calder and picking up the Vezina nomination - in a year in which he was smacked down by mononucleosis, for G-d's sake - for once there were no more "next steps", no "now there's this next thing to overcome" - he was pretty much at the top of anything save taking this team to the Cup Finals.

And as a result, we all suddenly discovered that he had absolutely no clue how to deal with recognized success at such a high level. There wasn't anything left to "overcome", and so it went straight to his head and screwed up his self-motivation.

He came to camp the next year out of shape. Seriously. And discovered that things weren't as rosy and eternal as it seemed. And that played absolute hell with the self-confidence he'd been relying on for years and years, and suddenly he's completely lost and not knowing what to do.

The kid needs help, badly. He's still awesome when he's supported, but he thought he'd already arrived and discovered it just ain't so. He's starting to get back to where he was, but is still shaky. Get him fully back on track and learning how to manage success and he truly will be what everyone said he would.

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06-21-2011, 01:16 PM
  #48
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High glove, but that was fixed remarkably quickly. In the end, it was actually ego, which caught everybody - himself included - by surprise.

See, Mason was kind of a funny case. He'd spent his entire life basically not being believed in, always being the underdog, and having to triumph above that. It led to something of a maturity beyond his years as he was quite capable of dealing with defeat and setbacks under those circumstances, because, y'know, nobody ever noticed. So he was always prepared to just Keep On Truckin' 'till he made it. When he finally was vindicated by winning the Calder and picking up the Vezina nomination - in a year in which he was smacked down by mononucleosis, for G-d's sake - for once there were no more "next steps", no "now there's this next thing to overcome" - he was pretty much at the top of anything save taking this team to the Cup Finals.

And as a result, we all suddenly discovered that he had absolutely no clue how to deal with recognized success at such a high level. There wasn't anything left to "overcome", and so it went straight to his head and screwed up his self-motivation.

He came to camp the next year out of shape. Seriously. And discovered that things weren't as rosy and eternal as it seemed. And that played absolute hell with the self-confidence he'd been relying on for years and years, and suddenly he's completely lost and not knowing what to do.

The kid needs help, badly. He's still awesome when he's supported, but he thought he'd already arrived and discovered it just ain't so. He's starting to get back to where he was, but is still shaky. Get him fully back on track and learning how to manage success and he truly will be what everyone said he would.
Sounds almost like what happened to the Cardinals Rick Ankiel...

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06-21-2011, 01:24 PM
  #49
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Sounds almost like what happened to the Cardinals Rick Ankiel...
I wouldn't know. I don't follow baseball at all.

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06-21-2011, 01:47 PM
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Just remember for every Patrick Roy there are many more Steve Penney's out there. Goalies are like field goal kickers. When they are on they are locked in but once they lose their confidence, it's very hard to get back. Tim Thomas is one of those rare exceptions where you saw a guy who was on his way out of Boston only to do what he's done this year. Pretty amazing stuff but there are more failures than success stories like that. I hope Mason regains his form but it may take a while.

Heck, look at Carey Price and what he's been thru in 3 years. You have to have strong mettle to be an NHL level goalie and then to be an elite one, you have to have that much more.

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