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Rangers or Islanders

View Poll Results: Who wins the Cup First
Rangers 101 80.80%
Islanders 24 19.20%
Voters: 125. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
06-21-2011, 01:02 PM
  #101
Beacon
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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
Wouldn't be enough, but it wouldn't be enough for the Rangers, either.
I think a young Gretzky scoring 130-200 points (probably closer to 130 because teams score less now) would be enough for the Rangers. He would turn any two decent wingers (Callahan and Dubinsky) into 40-50 goal scorers because of his amazing passing ability. Gaborik would be scoring 60-70 goals with a young Gretzky. Hell, Prust would score 30-35 goals if he played with a young Gretzky.

A first line of Dubinsky - Gretzky - Gaborik would score over 2 goals per game. They would likely average about as many goals as Lundqvist's GAA. Then the rest of the team would make up the difference.

The Rangers would likely average about 4.5 to 5.0 goals per game, while giving up about 2.3 to 2.4.

They would win the Cup.

The isles? Probably not. Their offense would be terrific, but their defense mediocre and their goaltending lacking. The difference would be that while Gretzky would be creating goals for the Rangers, Lundqvist (as well as Staal & Company) would be preventing goals against.

But on the Isles, defense and goaltending would not hold for four rounds.


Last edited by Beacon: 06-21-2011 at 01:09 PM.
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06-21-2011, 01:03 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
Would EC be their first line center?

The homer posts in this thread are funny.
Excuse me? Where did I say that? The tool of a poster from that joke of a franchise stated that PAP would be one of our 3 best players.

I'm still "Patiently Waiting" for that jagoff to come back in here and defend what he posted.

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06-21-2011, 01:07 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Ruotsalainen29 View Post
Excuse me? Where did I say that? The tool of a poster from that joke of a franchise stated that PAP would be one of our 3 best players.

I'm still "Patiently Waiting" for that jagoff to come back in here and defend what he posted.
PAP put up 53 points on what everyone in this thread says is a much worse team. That would rank him where on the Rangers scoring chart for this past season? The much much better team. I think that would have put him in our top 3 scorers.

We all trying to catch up to your brilliance, please wait.

Edited.

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06-21-2011, 01:12 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
PAP put up 53 points on what everyone in this thread says is a much worse team. That would rank him where on the Rangers scoring chart for this past season? The much much better team. I think that would have put him 1 friggin point behind the team lead.

We all trying to catch up to your brilliance, please wait.
So stat geek, are you really saying PAP, based on his point totals and ice time is a better hockey player than say, Dubi, Cally, Gaborik, Stepan and Anisimov to name a few?

He wouldn't even make the Rangers.

Go back to fantasy hockey or EA because you obviously don't understand the value of hockey players in real life.

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06-21-2011, 01:15 PM
  #105
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Better yet, why don't you make a poll on the main board asking if PAP would be one of our "3 best players" and get back to us.

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06-21-2011, 01:17 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Ruotsalainen29 View Post
So stat geek, are you really saying PAP, based on his point totals and ice time is a better hockey player than say, Dubi, Cally, Gaborik, Stepan and Anisimov to name a few?

He wouldn't even make the Rangers.

Go back to fantasy hockey or EA because you obviously don't understand the value of hockey players in real life.
Ok first of all learn how to use a message board, you have already broken the rules in almost every post you put up so far. Your calling me names and the other posters.

Second PAP was on our team the year before he made the Islanders, so this talk about him being back in our minors is silly. He was a Ranger before he left. I'm pissed that we spent all that time developing this player only to have to Isles grab him. Yeah I have seen him play and he's a determined and talented player, who in my opinion, would have helped the Rangers this season.

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06-21-2011, 01:18 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
Okposo would definitely get significant time here. Grabner has shown he would deserve significant time here. I think Bailey might prove to be deserving of major time here, going forward.
Bailey would be below both Stepan and Anisimov. Solid player, but he's a 2nd/3rd line tweener type. I would love him anchoring our third line for the next decade.

Okposo would be behind a few guys, too, but might slot in right below Callahan if we kept him on the right (3rd line). If we had him on the left, he'd be a great 2nd line left wing for us behind Dubi. I would take either of those two guys in a heartbeat. Much faster than I'd take guys like PAP (would not want him for free) or Moulson (maybe would give a 2nd round pick or so for a solid 3rd liner on a good team like him).

Grabner is such a wild card. I remain unconvinced that he could produce like that on a team with more depth. He is such a limited player (ALL he can do is score goals). Kind of similar to how Ryder was. Someone to follow, though.

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06-21-2011, 01:19 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Ruotsalainen29 View Post
Better yet, why don't you make a poll on the main board asking if PAP would be one of our "3 best players" and get back to us.
Ok lets change it to our 3 most productive players if that makes you feel better. All these guys are better players, on a better team with a better goalie yet the worse player in PAP outscored almost every single one of them.

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06-21-2011, 01:22 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
Ok first of all learn how to use a message board, you have already broken the rules in almost every post you put up so far. Your calling me names and the other posters.

Second PAP was on our team the year before he made the Islanders, so this talk about him being back in our minors is silly. He was a Ranger before he left. I'm pissed that we spent all that time developing this player only to have to Isles grab him. Yeah I have seen him play and he's a determined and talented player, who in my opinion, would have helped the Rangers this season.
Your profile lists video games as one of your interests. I've been on message boards long enough to let moderators do their job.

He was on our team out of necessity (injuries) and we didn't "develop" him as he was basically a career AHLer before we signed him.

Would he have helped us? Possibly. That's not the point. The Islander fan said he would be one of our 3 best players. I was replying to that when you came back with your nonsensical post about EC.

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06-21-2011, 01:24 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
Ok lets change it to our 3 most productive players if that makes you feel better. All these guys are better players, on a better team with a better goalie yet the worse player in PAP outscored almost every single one of them.
NOT THE POINT. He didn't say outscore. He said one of our 3 best players.

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06-21-2011, 01:25 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
I don't think you even need all this to happen. If we sign Richards, Stepan can be a 50 to 60 point center. If MDZ doesn't become a 50 point center, we can put together a package of high draft picks and someone like Anisimov, maybe even with MDZ, for a guy that can contribute offensively on the blueline. After that, I do think Kreider or Thomas have to be significant top 6 players for us to be ready for a cup run in 2 years or so. That would give you: Kreider/Thomas, Richards, Gaborik, Dubinsky, Stepan, Callahan for the top 6 and players like Boyle, Prust, etc. scattered through the bottom 6...a good bottom 6. And the defense would speak for itself, Sauer and McDonagh are only going to get better defensively and Staal and Girardi are already one of the better top defensive pairings in the league IMO. Lundqvist is Lundqvist. All the defense is missing is that offensive guy, and we have the chips to trade for one when we're ready.

Not sure I am this optimistic.

At a minimum, the Rangers will need to add 3 out of 4:

1) 70 point center
2) 35 goal winger
3) 50 point defenseman
4) bruising defenseman as good as Beukeboom. (This and the previous point already assumes that Erixon will be our #5 as a two-way blueliner.)

Thus could be prospects (Thomas, Kreider, Fasth, McIlrath) or rookies/sophomores (Stepan, Anisimov, MDZ) who show a big improvement. Or it could be outside acquisitions (Richards or a trade).

But the rangers are more than one piece away, unless that piece scores 100+ points.

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06-21-2011, 01:27 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Ruotsalainen29 View Post
Your profile lists video games as one of your interests. I've been on message boards long enough to let moderators do their job.

He was on our team out of necessity (injuries) and we didn't "develop" him as he was basically a career AHLer before we signed him.

Would he have helped us? Possibly. That's not the point. The Islander fan said he would be one of our 3 best players. I was replying to that when you came back with your nonsensical post about EC.
Aren't your most productive players your best players? Gonna argue over a play of words? No matter how you want to twist it he outproduced every single player on this team except Duby who was a grand total of 1 point better. These much better players on a much better team who are by most here two moves away from a cup.

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06-21-2011, 01:30 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by RangerEsq View Post
Not sure I am this optimistic.

At a minimum, the Rangers will need to add 3 out of 4:
1) 70 point center - Richards
2) 35 goal winger - Gaborik + Kreider/Thomas/Fasth/outsider?
3) 50 point defenseman - ?
4) bruising defenseman as good as Beukeboom. (This and the previous point already assumes that Erixon will be our #5 as a two-way blueliner.) -Sauer? McIlrath?


Thus could be prospects (Thomas, Kreider, Fasth, McIlrath) or rookies/sophomores (Stepan, Anisimov, MDZ) who show a big improvement. Or it could be outside acquisitions (Richards or a trade).

But the rangers are more than one piece away, unless that piece scores 100+ points.
Of course they're more than one piece away, I'm not saying we aren't. I just think if we get Richards, we're really close.

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06-21-2011, 01:31 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
Aren't your most productive players your best players? Gonna argue over a play of words? No matter how you want to twist it he outproduced every single player on this team except Duby who was a grand total of 1 point better. These much better players on a much better team who are by most here two moves away from a cup.
So? If Stepan was centering Tavares and Moulson getting that ice time he would be scoring at PAPs pace as well, probably more as he is the superior hockey player.

You're the one twisting words. Not me. I simply replied to what he posted.

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06-21-2011, 01:31 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
Aren't your most productive players your best players? Gonna argue over a play of words? No matter how you want to twist it he outproduced every single player on this team except Duby who was a grand total of 1 point better. These much better players on a much better team who are by most here two moves away from a cup.
Parenteau only missed one game. Callahan, only 5 points lower, missed a total of 20 games. Dubinsky missing five...probably would just bump him up a point or two.

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06-21-2011, 01:32 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
PAP put up 53 points on what everyone in this thread says is a much worse team. That would rank him where on the Rangers scoring chart for this past season? The much much better team. I think that would have put him in our top 3 scorers.

We all trying to catch up to your brilliance, please wait.

Edited.
If PAP played a full season for the Rangers, I bet he would've come close to that point total too. That doesn't mean that he's good, or a player that you want anywhere near your lineup if you want to contend.

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06-21-2011, 01:33 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Ruotsalainen29 View Post
NOT THE POINT. He didn't say outscore. He said one of our 3 best players.
I'm sorry what? How does this work?

Name me 3 Rangers who have put up 53 points in any season of their careers.

Gabby
Duby
Wolski <----Mr.Buyout
Drury <-----done
Prospal <-----Not a Ranger in 2 weeks

Did I miss anyone? I see three current Rangers there.

Edit: Forgot Duby

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06-21-2011, 01:34 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
I'm sorry what? How does this work?

Name me 3 Rangers who have put up 53 points in any season of their careers.

Gabby
Wolski <----Mr.Buyout
Drury <-----done
Prospal <-----Not a Ranger in 2 weeks

Did I miss anyone? I see two current Rangers there.

I'm done with the conversation with you as all you see is stats.

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06-21-2011, 01:35 PM
  #119
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I'm done with the conversation with you as all you see is stats.

No it's about production not hype and popularity contests.

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06-21-2011, 01:37 PM
  #120
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No it's about production not hype and popularity contests.
Whatever you say.

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06-21-2011, 02:27 PM
  #121
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Of course they're more than one piece away, I'm not saying we aren't. I just think if we get Richards, we're really close.

I tend to agree - the Rangers would be very good if they signed Brad. Probably good enough to easily make the second round and maybe the third.

But I will stick to my earlier point on Brad:

YES: $7 for 5 years
NO: $7.5+ for 6+ years

The most, the absolute most I would be willing to give him is $7.5 for 5 years or $7 for 6 years. Even that would hurt us in the long term. If we give him more than that, I am convinced it will prevent us from resigning someone like Dubinsky or Staal when they hit UFA around the same time the career of Brad Richards begins to nosedive.

And if he gets $7.5 for 5 years or $7 for 6 years, then he gets no NTC. I would give him a NMC if he were willing to sign for $7 over 5 years because I think he'll still be useful, though overpaid, in his mid-30s.

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06-21-2011, 02:44 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
You might not miss him because u don't really understand hockey.

I love when two goons collide and throw bombs. Fold that and put it into your pocket.

However, I would like a goon who can play some hockey, like Eric Bolton, Mike Ruup or Shawn Thornton. When Thornton became a free agent in 2007, I told anyone who would listen that we should sign him...people said the same boring **** you are saying today, goons are gone and blah, blah, blah...but Shawn Thornton knows how to play hockey.

When drafting, I prefer a guy like Milan Lucic over a guy like Jussi Joniken...it is rather simple.

I have a stance, I prefer it...you want a bunch of figure skaters on the ice.

I am done...i am tired...u guys win...there are 7-8 guys on this board that all have the same opinion and it is tiring...u win. Have a nice life.
When you say that Colton is important and question my hockey knowledge, I am satisfied as to the result of the exchange of opinions.

When you are called on your faulty logic, you retreat and yell pansies at those who disagree with you. It's comical and old.

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06-21-2011, 03:41 PM
  #123
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They have that many points due to the Dom Moore effect -- mediocre players on a God-awful team that produce more than they would on a good team. They aren't useless (well, PAP is useless), but they are nowhere near as good as they are as when they are getting huge minutes due to their former team sucking.

PAP would be in our minor league system still and Moulson would be on our 3rd line scoring about 40 points or so.

Just because your team is God-awful does not mean that your players would perform the same on a better team with better depth. Real life does not work that way. The only one who would get significant ice time here is Tavares. That's it.
You do realize Moore had career bests this season playing with Tampa?

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06-21-2011, 03:57 PM
  #124
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I don't think points matter as much. I'd rather have a good defensively sound team with 2-way forwards. Maybe not as flashy or fun to watch, but they'd win more games and show more heart in the process.

Exhibit A: Boston Bruins 2010-11 Stanley Cup Champions.

Seriously PAP would be our 3rd best player?

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06-21-2011, 03:59 PM
  #125
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You do realize Moore had career bests this season playing with Tampa?
I think Jonathan is implying that Dominic Moore got spoonfed 1st line minutes with the leafs along with Jason Blake.

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