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Travis Hamonic or Luke Schenn in the Future?

View Poll Results: Who would you want in the Future?
Luke Schenn 126 59.15%
Travis Hamonic 87 40.85%
Voters: 213. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
06-21-2011, 06:10 PM
  #26
RedBaronIndian
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Originally Posted by Nathan311 View Post
With 2 not very established players it is a stronger argument than using giveaways as the only example...
Using only giveways is weak and flimsy. As is draft position

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06-21-2011, 06:16 PM
  #27
REALTALK81
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I would have to say Schenn. Hamonic is a good young 2 way dman but Schenn is a beast who's offense is getting better.

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06-21-2011, 06:27 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Voodoo Child View Post
And let's also not forget that they're the same age. Hamonic had a good year, but that doesn't mean he's better than a guy the same age who has accomplished a lot more.

Hamonic had a full minute more of PPTOI, and 34 seconds less SHTOI. He plays easier minutes than Schenn and gets more opportunities to score.

As for people saying shutdown guys are more common, blech. What's more common? A guy with top-5 in the NHL shutdown potential (He's already top-20 easily) and 35 point upside (Schenn) or 35-50 point two-way guys (Hamonic)?
You act as if Schenn is a lot better defensively which he isn't. I think he is currently a little bit better defensively because he is stronger, but I think Hamonic will be just as good once he gets that strength. Both will be very good in the future though, and it is far to early to tell who will be better of the 2.

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06-21-2011, 06:43 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by REALTALK81 View Post
I would have to say Schenn. Hamonic is a good young 2 way dman but Schenn is a beast who's offense is getting better.
I see it the exact opposite, Schenn is a good young 1way dmen. Where Hamonic is a beast whos 2waygame is only going to get better.

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06-21-2011, 06:44 PM
  #30
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I think Hamonic is already better with more room to grow, so I'd take him for the future rather easily..

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06-21-2011, 07:00 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by REALTALK81 View Post
I would have to say Schenn. Hamonic is a good young 2 way dman but Schenn is a beast who's offense is getting better.
And Hamonic won't get better?

And I like how Hamonic getting more PP time is his fault. He's a real ******* for being better offensively and getting that PP time. Anyway, it is in part due to so many injuries on defense.

I take Hamonic. As I said in the re do the 2008 draft thread and the 9 page thread comparing the two in the prospects thread, the difference defensively isn't much and Hamonic brings much more offensively.

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06-21-2011, 07:02 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Doug Height View Post
This has been done already.

Leafs fans flipped out for even putting Hamonic on the same poll as Schenn, and then invaded the Isles board and trolled the hell out of it.
As well they should have.

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06-21-2011, 07:15 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by WangMustGo View Post
You act as if Schenn is a lot better defensively which he isn't. I think he is currently a little bit better defensively because he is stronger, but I think Hamonic will be just as good once he gets that strength. Both will be very good in the future though, and it is far to early to tell who will be better of the 2.
He's got a long way to go. IIRC, Phil Kessel of all people outmuscled him and scored a goal because of it earlier this season.

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06-21-2011, 07:21 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Falcons93 View Post
He's got a long way to go. IIRC, Phil Kessel of all people outmuscled him and scored a goal because of it earlier this season.
Ouch.

Even though Schenn is going to win this thread, it's bogus. It was inspired by a 'Re-do the 2008 draft' thread that said nothing about the future but rather the now, in which Schenn is superior in one and most likely in both.

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06-21-2011, 07:22 PM
  #35
Doug Height
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As well they should have.
Sure, buddy.

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06-21-2011, 10:03 PM
  #36
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Still Schenn, same as last time.

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06-21-2011, 10:25 PM
  #37
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even if im an Isles fan, I have to say Hamonic will be almost surely better than Schenn in the future

this is no knock on Schenn, it's because Hamonic could potentially be a top-5 D-Man in the league in 3-5 years while Schenn will never be more than a good shut-down guy

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06-21-2011, 10:39 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Streit Power View Post
even if im an Isles fan, I have to say Hamonic will be almost surely better than Schenn in the future

this is no knock on Schenn, it's because Hamonic could potentially be a top-5 D-Man in the league in 3-5 years while Schenn will never be more than a good shut-down guy
Overrating him much? Top 5 in the League? Over who?

Doughty
Myers
Keith
Seabrook
Schenn
Staal
Chara
Weber
Suter
Subban
Pietrangelo
Bogosian
Burns

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06-21-2011, 10:43 PM
  #39
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schenn being compared to hamonic is kind of sad lol.

if schenn wasn't in the leafs this poll wouldn't even exist. underrated by haters

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06-21-2011, 10:58 PM
  #40
Kevin27nyi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vezna View Post
schenn being compared to hamonic is kind of sad lol.

if schenn wasn't in the leafs this poll wouldn't even exist. underrated by haters
Yep, this is clearly about how bad Schenn is and not how good Hamonic is.

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06-21-2011, 11:02 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Lehner View Post
I love this post, dont even consider that Hamonic had 20 less GP then Schenn.

Hits:
Schenn 3.07 p/g
Hamonic 1.9 p/g

Giveaways:
Schenn 1.16 p/g
Hamonic 0.81 p/g

Takeaways:
[U]Schenn 0.46 p/g
Hamonic 0.73 p/g

Blocked shots:
Schenn 2.05 p/g
Hamonic 1.9 p/g

Also didn't add any real stats:

Goals:
Schenn 0.06 p/g
Hamonic 0.08 p/g

Assists:
Schenn 0.21 p/g
Hamonic 0.34 p/g

Points:
Schenn 0.27 p/g
Hamonic 0.42 p/g

TOI:
Schenn 22:22
Hamonic 21:34

+/-:
Schenn -7
Hamonic +4

And lets not forget this was Hamonic's rookie season.
So you think its rediculous that he uses those stats, then you come back using points to compare a stay at home, play against the top pairing with very little PP time to a 2 way, powerplay playing defenseman?

You wouldn't happen to be bias, would you?

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06-21-2011, 11:03 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vezna View Post
schenn being compared to hamonic is kind of sad lol.

if schenn wasn't in the leafs this poll wouldn't even exist. underrated by haters
Or maybe a lot of people just think Hamonic is really good? Schenn being compared to Hamonic is absolutely not a knock on Schenn. They both looked very impressive this season. What exactly is so horrible about comparing them?

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06-21-2011, 11:09 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoHoundsGo View Post
So you think its rediculous that he uses those stats, then you come back using points to compare a stay at home, play against the top pairing with very little PP time to a 2 way, powerplay playing defenseman?

You wouldn't happen to be bias, would you?
So we should ignore offensive stats because Schenn isn't good offensively?

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06-21-2011, 11:14 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Classyhabsfan View Post
So we should ignore offensive stats because Schenn isn't good offensively?
26 points isn't bad. Especially since he has stated at the end of the season he is working and developing his offensive game with his coaches... If you think he is tapped out now being 21 years old with his kind of work-ethic.... well then you're wrong and just being stupid. Just look at the improvements he made from last season to this season mostly with moving and passing the puck, HUGE difference and was the leafs best defensemen this season. Who's to say he won't come back again next season and improve just as much if not more?

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06-21-2011, 11:18 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Classyhabsfan View Post
So we should ignore offensive stats because Schenn isn't good offensively?
That's not what he's saying.

Lehner is calling basically every defensive stat that Schenn is good in ridiculous, then points out a bunch of offensive stats and call it legit.

It's fine to use offensive stats, but don't disregard the other stats.

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06-21-2011, 11:20 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Classyhabsfan View Post
So we should ignore offensive stats because Schenn isn't good offensively?
So should we ignore that Schenn plays less on the PP?

I am pointing out that if you are going to call someone out, then at least don't follow it up with choosy stats, leaving out important information. I don't mind if you want to say Hamonic is better, but provide the context. And also, don't discount the things Schenn does do well.

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06-21-2011, 11:22 PM
  #47
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I'm slightly leaning towards Schenn, but either player would be great.

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06-21-2011, 11:26 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Nathan311 View Post
Hits: Schenn 251 (1st) Hamonic 118 (54th) Huge discrepancy, this easily goes to Schenn. That said, hitting is not the end all and be all of defensemen. Giveaways: Schenn 95 (1st) Hamonic 50 (49th) Obviously up there in Hamonics favor by a great deal. On the other side, joining Schenn in the top 10? Doughty, Seabrook, Burns, and Keith... Takeaways: Schenn 38 (23rd) Hamonic 45 (13th) Fairly close here, with Hamonic getting the nod. Could go either way. Blocked shots: Schenn 168 (12th) Hamonic 118 (74th) Big gap in Schenn's favor. So overall, Hamonic has slightly more takeaways and a lot less giveaways, while being vastly less physical and not blocking nearly as many shots.
i dont know how many games schenn played but hamonic played around 60 so i dont know if this is fair or not...

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06-21-2011, 11:34 PM
  #49
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Both played top pair mins against the same kind of competition and hamonic had a plus 4 compared to schenns minus 7 on a worse team and hamonic is better offensively so ill go with hamonic

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06-21-2011, 11:39 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kulemon View Post
26 points isn't bad. Especially since he has stated at the end of the season he is working and developing his offensive game with his coaches... If you think he is tapped out now being 21 years old with his kind of work-ethic.... well then you're wrong and just being stupid. Just look at the improvements he made from last season to this season mostly with moving and passing the puck, HUGE difference and was the leafs best defensemen this season. Who's to say he won't come back again next season and improve just as much if not more?
You're putting words in my mouth. I didn't say he had tapped out offensively or anything of the sort. As of right now, Schenn isn't good offensively. Do you disagree?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueRanger View Post
That's not what he's saying.

Lehner is calling basically every defensive stat that Schenn is good in ridiculous, then points out a bunch of offensive stats and call it legit.

It's fine to use offensive stats, but don't disregard the other stats.
Of course its ridiculous when you dont take into account that Hamonic played 20 games less than Schenn. Stats like total takeaways, Hits and blocked shots becomes meaningless when you ignore the fact that Hamonic played 20 less games.. The stats Lehner posted are much better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoHoundsGo View Post
So should we ignore that Schenn plays less on the PP?

I am pointing out that if you are going to call someone out, then at least don't follow it up with choosy stats, leaving out important information. I don't mind if you want to say Hamonic is better, but provide the context. And also, don't discount the things Schenn does do well.
Hamonic had 4 points on the PP this year playing 1.59 a game. Schenn had 0 points on the PP playing 0.59 a game.. PP time didn't have much effect on their total amount of points. I dont see anything wrong with the Stats Lehner posted, and they provide much more context than the stats he quoted. The only thing he didn't consider was PP time, which wouldn't have changed very much.

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