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Craig Button - 2009 & 2010 Draft Do Over

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Old
06-21-2011, 10:13 PM
  #51
Roulin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxpac View Post
Too many posters here are laughing at Button's picks because they are not figuring out that he is doing longterm projections and not immediate impact. If Gudbransson is down to 13th or Seguin is over Hall maybe it's because he feels that some players have stalled in their development.
You might have wanted to read that one over before posting. Taylor Hall, stalled in his development? Taylor Hall? I highly recommend you catch one of his games next season, he's a treat to watch.

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06-21-2011, 10:17 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Em Ancien View Post
Yes, and Mike Millbury had an NHL job. HAD.

I didn't even watch the Canadian prospect show, just what he said in That's Hockey made me want to shut it off.

There's also a thread on the main boards, pretty much everyone is bashing the guy for being a moron.

He [the poster] never said Tinordi was a huge difference maker. He said he made some hits that sometimes changed the momentum of the game, and that he was a good Dman at the end of the year. Or maybe he actually said that, I'd have to go check back.

Craig Button was head scout for the stars for 8 full years under Bob Gainey. You have no leg to stand on and his morning turd knows more about scouting than all of you haters combined.

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06-21-2011, 10:23 PM
  #53
Russian Warrior
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I didn't know HFBoards Thugs knew better than an ex GM...

You guys are harsh on Tinordi.

He's going to be an important player for us and will log big minutes. Maybe he's not an offensive dynamo, but at 6'7'' he's extremely mobile for his size. He's still only 210 lbs, he needs time to fill out and when he does, he'll be scary.

He's going to complement Subban perfectly down the road.

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06-21-2011, 10:23 PM
  #54
Melvin Udall
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Originally Posted by larrypacman8167 View Post
where can i read the article???

The PO is referring to a show on TSN - However - there is an article on the TSN website (link below) - be sure to click on the years 2009 ans 2010 in order to see Button's revised draft lists!


http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=369620





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06-21-2011, 10:29 PM
  #55
Em Ancien
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Nilan View Post
Craig Button was head scout for the stars for 8 full years under Bob Gainey. You have no leg to stand on and his morning turd knows more about scouting than all of you haters combined.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russian Warrior View Post
I didn't know HFBoards Thugs knew better than an ex GM...

You guys are harsh on Tinordi.

He's going to be an important player for us and will log big minutes. Maybe he's not an offensive dynamo, but at 6'7'' he's extremely mobile for his size. He's still only 210 lbs, he needs time to fill out and when he does, he'll be scary.

He's going to complement Subban perfectly down the road.
Guy advised JFJ to trade for Raycroft and released Marty St-Louis from the Flames.

Guy sure knows what he's doing. Mind-boggling how hasn't got another front office job, amirite?

I'll give him props for being head scout during some solid drafts draft picks for the Stars, though. (His record is actually pretty bad, barring a few good picks actually)

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06-21-2011, 10:32 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Em Ancien View Post
Guy advised JFJ to trade for Raycroft and released Marty St-Louis from the Flames.

Guy sure knows what he's doing. Mind-boggling how hasn't got another front office job, amirite?
And did you ever get a front office job?

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06-21-2011, 10:33 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Russian Warrior View Post
I didn't know HFBoards Thugs knew better than an ex GM...
I didn't know being an ex GM meant unquestionable powers of scouting and logic until death...

At this point, it's more accurate to say we're talking about a media personality questioning the decisions of current GM's. I think it's a safe bet that Doug Armstrong, Chuck Fletcher and Don Maloney are not looking at Button's list and wishing they had drafted Tinordi over Schwartz, Granlund or Gormley.

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Old
06-21-2011, 10:34 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Russian Warrior View Post
And did you ever get a front office job?
Nope, but my dad wasn't in the business either.

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06-21-2011, 10:40 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Em Ancien View Post
Guy advised JFJ to trade for Raycroft and released Marty St-Louis from the Flames.

Guy sure knows what he's doing. Mind-boggling how hasn't got another front office job, amirite?#
Largely irrelevant. Anyone who's draftees were directly responsible for a cup win knows what he's talking about. 20 years in the NHL as a amateur scout/head scout/GM/pro scout >>> any opinion you may have ever held in your life.

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06-21-2011, 10:42 PM
  #60
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Everybody is entitled to their opinion.....except that when you write about Tinordi offensive side of his game, you do have a tendancy to wonder what the heck he's talking about....

Problem is that usually the re-do draft are based on actual results when Button is still making projections as if the draft just happened. We still have no idea how Tinordi will end up developing....but you can't move him past Gudbranson....and you just freakin can't not have Skinner better than Johansen...Unless people sees it as another projection and not an actual re-do draft....

But projection or not, people should stop talking about Tinordi's offensive game. At best, he'll have a great first pass.

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06-21-2011, 10:42 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Little Nilan View Post
Largely irrelevant. Anyone who's draftees were directly responsible for a cup win knows what he's talking about. 20 years in the NHL as a amateur scout/head scout/GM/pro scout >>> any opinion you may have ever held in your life.


You're funny.

I wish my dad would get me a job in the NHL. Then my opinion would be better than everyone's on anything.

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06-21-2011, 10:43 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
I didn't know being an ex GM meant unquestionable powers of scouting and logic until death...

At this point, it's more accurate to say we're talking about a media personality questioning the decisions of current GM's. I think it's a safe bet that Doug Armstrong, Chuck Fletcher and Don Maloney are not looking at Button's list and wishing they had drafted Tinordi over Schwartz, Granlund or Gormley.
What people are doing is moving away from the bashing of a member of the Canadiens by people who don't follow him, to pointing out someone with credentials believes he has all the tools to be an impact player. There is nothing wrong with pointing that out.

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Old
06-21-2011, 10:43 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
I didn't know being an ex GM meant unquestionable powers of scouting and logic until death...

At this point, it's more accurate to say we're talking about a media personality questioning the decisions of current GM's. I think it's a safe bet that Doug Armstrong, Chuck Fletcher and Don Maloney are not looking at Button's list and wishing they had drafted Tinordi over Schwartz, Granlund or Gormley.
How do you know Tinordi will not be more valuable down the road, let's say, in about 5 years? You don't.

Button is only making a longterm projection and in his opinion a 6'7'' defenseman that is mobile, great defensively and can log 25+ minutes is more valuable to him than whatever he thinks Schwartz and cie. can bring to their respective team.

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Old
06-21-2011, 10:45 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Nilan View Post
Largely irrelevant. Anyone who's draftees were directly responsible for a cup win knows what he's talking about. 20 years in the NHL as a amateur scout/head scout/GM/pro scout >>> any opinion you may have ever held in your life.
The problem here is that tons of people might have been able to do the job....just that they didn't know the right people especially in that field. Not saying Button is incompetent, but we have seen and do know people who stayed in that business with not a whole lot of track record.

I think that you have to acknowledge Button's opinion based on what you're saying....but I wouldn't totally disregard our board members' opinions solely because they happened to not have known the right people, to not have been at the right place at the right time or just because while they are good at it, still decided to make their living in another field of work.

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06-21-2011, 10:46 PM
  #65
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Tavares third, that's gold. Tavares is easily 1st. Button is a buffoon.

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06-21-2011, 10:48 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Little Nilan View Post
What people are doing is moving away from the bashing of a member of the Canadiens by people who don't follow him, to pointing out someone with credentials believes he has all the tools to be an impact player. There is nothing wrong with pointing that out.
How are people bashing Tinordi? Just because people aren't expecting Pronger or Chara doesn't mean it's bashing.

And yes, some of us do follow prospects. You can go check the prospect thread for people giving reports and whatnot.

But hey, bashing the people questionning a person's credentials who were so-called bashing a Habs prospect sure makes you right.

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06-21-2011, 10:49 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by RE-HABS View Post
Great to see the hype is there on Tinordi from the experts, and not false hope as many skeptics here would think!
Between the fact that Tinordi's type of player only becomes a heavy minute-muncher if he's 1-got puck skills Tinordi doesn't seem to be developing or 2-gets babysat by a PMD, and Corey Pronman's comment, I'm going to have to say enthusiasm may be premature. For a #22 pick, he's really what you'd expect, but... I still think it was unwise to trade two picks to draft a player of this type. Hopefully Timmins thinks Tinordi can develop those vital puck skills, and hopefully he's right.

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06-21-2011, 10:51 PM
  #68
Little Nilan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
The problem here is that tons of people might have been able to do the job....just that they didn't know the right people especially in that field. Not saying Button is incompetent, but we have seen and do know people who stayed in that business with not a whole lot of track record.
He does have a track record though. Knowing the right people is a reality in every aspect of life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
I think that you have to acknowledge Button's opinion based on what you're saying....but I wouldn't totally disregard our board members' opinions solely because they happened to not have known the right people, to not have been at the right place at the right time or just because while they are good at it, still decided to make their living in another field of work.
I wouldn't disregard all of our board members opinions either: you're a perfect example. If you have to be explained all the nuances of Buttons success/media personnality/etc, then your opinion isn't worth any amount of time.

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06-21-2011, 10:54 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Little Nilan View Post
What people are doing is moving away from the bashing of a member of the Canadiens by people who don't follow him, to pointing out someone with credentials believes he has all the tools to be an impact player. There is nothing wrong with pointing that out.
The other problem with your argument is also that you could have 100 more professionnals with credentials who might have totally another type of response. Tinordi's progression could still go some different ways. While I TOTALLY believe this kid will be an NHL'er (no doubt on my mind), I'm still not sure how dominant he'll be. There's still some possibilities that we're talking about a better skater Hal Gill here. Not that it will be disastrous, but clearly not what Craig's list is implying. What's disastrous for me if that indeed happens, is that we paid too much of a price to have that kind of d-man in our system. You would have a Merrill and something else if we would not have moved. But Tinordi in himself is not a bad pick...moving up and paying the price, that needs to be determined.

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06-21-2011, 10:57 PM
  #70
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All I know is you're wasting your time bashing another man while that man is making money.

At least, if you're taking your time to go on a message board, say something positive. Or else, do something more productive of your life, Time is money.

I should be a ****ing Pastor. SWAG

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06-21-2011, 10:58 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Russian Warrior View Post
How do you know Tinordi will not be more valuable down the road, let's say, in about 5 years? You don't.

Button is only making a longterm projection and in his opinion a 6'7'' defenseman that is mobile, great defensively and can log 25+ minutes is more valuable to him than whatever he thinks Schwartz and cie. can bring to their respective team.
Nobody knows for certain who will be more valuable in 5 years.

What is known, is that Schwartz was taken at #14 in the actual draft, and Tinordi was taken at #22. Tinordi moved to a new level, where he showed the same as before the draft, a lot of untapped potential. Schwartz also moved to a new level, a higher level actually, and absolutely dominated that level. He showed that he is too good for college hockey.

And now, with this year of new information, Button has decided that Tinordi actually should have been taken at #8, and Schwartz should still have been taken at #14? With that logic, I really don't care that Button once held a position of power in the hockey world.

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06-21-2011, 11:01 PM
  #72
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Looking at the 2010 redraft, St.Louis always find these gems
Too bad their head scout left tho
-Oshie
-Berglund
-Eller
-Tarasenko

to name a few

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06-21-2011, 11:01 PM
  #73
Little Nilan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
The other problem with your argument is also that you could have 100 more professionnals with credentials who might have totally another type of response. Tinordi's progression could still go some different ways. While I TOTALLY believe this kid will be an NHL'er (no doubt on my mind), I'm still not sure how dominant he'll be. There's still some possibilities that we're talking about a better skater Hal Gill here. Not that it will be disastrous, but clearly not what Craig's list is implying. What's disastrous for me if that indeed happens, is that we paid too much of a price to have that kind of d-man in our system. You would have a Merrill and something else if we would not have moved. But Tinordi in himself is not a bad pick...moving up and paying the price, that needs to be determined.
I don't believe that first part of your posts counters anything I've said. I would agree with you and I wouldn't call any of those scouts ass clowns if they believed Tinordi was the worst player of that draft, that would be his educated opinion. Outside of the highest draft positions or the strongest drafts (think 2003), I don't see how a draft can be compatible with player by player comparisons unless your team is dropping the ball year after year. We know this isn't the case with Timmins. 29 teams could do the same exercise with PK Subban.

The question isn't wether a better skating Hall Gill (which would be an outstanding pick considering what late first rounders usually become) is better than what a Merrill would be, but what kind of value that pick will bring us. I'm sure the decision to move up the draft was carefully weighted by the scouting staff. Maybe if a Subban was on Timmins' list that move isn't done, or another one acquiring another 2nd rounder would've been in the works. I'm not a fan of trading picks, not when you have a strong scouting staff, but a 25+min is one of the most valuable commidities in the league, if that's his upper limit. Anyways, good points as always WS.

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Old
06-21-2011, 11:26 PM
  #74
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Definitely raised my eyebrow when he had Evander Kane re-drafted 7th in 2009. After Duchene, he would be my #2. Give him a center and he will dominate. I would LOVE him on a line with Pleks and Cammy.

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06-21-2011, 11:42 PM
  #75
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To me, he's a project and a decent gamble. People laughed hard when the Isles picked Chara, I mean... these big guys can go either way. At least Tinordi has his dad to give him some sound advice.

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