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Rangers are without a plan coming into the draft

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Old
06-22-2011, 05:33 AM
  #101
haohmaru
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Originally Posted by n8 View Post
I suppose the title of the thread is entirely misleading as well. Should be...
Which sounds like they didn't have a plan last year either.

The thread title should really be: Clark discusses the upcoming draft.

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06-22-2011, 05:57 AM
  #102
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They already had their draft: Erixon.

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06-22-2011, 07:08 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by ThisYearsModel View Post
How about trading this year's #1 for a #1 next year, when the draft is stocked.
I'd be all for that. I just don't think any other team would be. Maybe Calgary or Florida? We'd have to add. Maybe Boyle + 1st 2011 for 1st 2012?

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06-22-2011, 07:10 AM
  #104
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And yeah, Erixon is our "pick" this year. Like last year (I think?) Ottawa traded their first for Rundblad. We basically traded our 2 2nd's for a 1st and "selected" Erixon. Erixon would probably go top 10 in this draft.

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06-22-2011, 07:47 AM
  #105
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This is a situation where you just pick the best player available when you're on the clock, even if it's a goaltender in our case. The players we draft now probably wont see garden ice for another 2 or 3 seasons anyway.

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06-22-2011, 07:50 AM
  #106
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Erixon was our "first round move" and a vg one!

They should package the 1st round pick with a player, prospect in
a trade for Iginla or another scorer.

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06-22-2011, 08:03 AM
  #107
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I have to say that when scouts are more interested in someone like Biggs because he throws big hits, rather than any other skills he may have, it really turns me off to picking him in the 1st round.

Guy sounds like a prototypical 2nd-3rd round pick, not someone you take in the middle of the first round, even in a weak draft

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06-22-2011, 08:09 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by RangerEsq View Post
He is not overrated. He, along with Sather, did an excellent job drafting, but they knew that this team cannot afford to wind up with nothing, so they did not go high-risk, high-return until swinging for MDZ, Kreider, McIlrath.


Normally, 20% of second rounders make the NHL. Since the lockout, from 2005 to 2008, the Rangers drafted Sauer, Anisimov, Lafleur, Stepan. 75% of them are NHLers. At least one of Thomas and Werek (maybe both) will also become NHLers.

In the first round, about 1/3 become regular NHLers. The Rangers drafted Staal, Sanguinetti, Cherepanov, MDZ, Kreider and McIlrath.

Cherry died, but probably would've made it. McIlrath is too early to tell.

Staal, MDZ and almost definitely Kreider are/will be NHLers. And Sanguinetti was turned into Fasth and Erixon.

Rangers have been significantly better at choosing players than the rest of the league, not to mention prospect acquisitions like Boyle, Girardi, Erixon, McDonagh and Valentenko.

The Rangers may not have gotten any big-time players except Marc Staal, but they did get a tremendous number of excellent NHLers.
"Excellent job drafting" "Significantly better at choosing players than the rest of the league"

This is the hyperbolic ********* that Im talking about. If these things were true over the last 5 years, the team wouldnt be scratching and clawing for a playoff spot every season, or needing Brad Richards to be that elite savior.

The truth is that Gordie Clark has been good. He hasnt completely **** the bed in the draft positions hes been presented with, and I guess that looks "excellent" to most fans who have watched this franchise basically completely ignore/or make massive mistakes in the draft from about 1992-2005. Just because its much better than those appauling years, does not mean its been excellent.

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06-22-2011, 08:42 AM
  #109
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It has gotten to the point that I really trust Gordie and almost want them to go off the board for a pick, because they tend to turn out really well, ala Stepan. I think drafting a pure goal scorer like Puempel who has questions surrounding him could be a great shot to take with our organizational depth at #15.

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06-22-2011, 08:43 AM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
"Excellent job drafting" "Significantly better at choosing players than the rest of the league"

This is the hyperbolic ********* that Im talking about. If these things were true over the last 5 years, the team wouldnt be scratching and clawing for a playoff spot every season, or needing Brad Richards to be that elite savior.

The truth is that Gordie Clark has been good. He hasnt completely **** the bed in the draft positions hes been presented with, and I guess that looks "excellent" to most fans who have watched this franchise basically completely ignore/or make massive mistakes in the draft from about 1992-2005. Just because its much better than those appauling years, does not mean its been excellent.
No, the Rangers have been one of the better teams at drafting for the past 5 years. You have to consider the later rounds, which the Rangers have more success than most teams. They haven't had a high pick to draft an elite player, and what elite player has even been around when the Rangers drafted? You could say Giroux, obviously, but that's about it. Just because the Rangers haven't been abb;e to draft an elite player means nothing, they have drafted several solid players, and that's all any team needs. If you have solid prospects like the Rangers do, you could always trade them for established elite talent.

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06-22-2011, 08:56 AM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
I have to say that when scouts are more interested in someone like Biggs because he throws big hits, rather than any other skills he may have, it really turns me off to picking him in the 1st round.

Guy sounds like a prototypical 2nd-3rd round pick, not someone you take in the middle of the first round, even in a weak draft
Completely agreed. I don't mind taking a guy in part because of attitude, toughness and compete level, but he's got to have skill too.

So, if there's someone with possible true first line upside available at 15, then take him. If, however, we truly, honestly believe that Biggs is the best available when we get to 15, then for the love of all that's holy trade down or out of the 1st round. DON'T pick Biggs there. (If you can get him later on, I have no problem with the pick.)

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Originally Posted by DatsyukSOGoal View Post
No, the Rangers have been one of the better teams at drafting for the past 5 years. You have to consider the later rounds, which the Rangers have more success than most teams. They haven't had a high pick to draft an elite player, and what elite player has even been around when the Rangers drafted? You could say Giroux, obviously, but that's about it. Just because the Rangers haven't been abb;e to draft an elite player means nothing, they have drafted several solid players, and that's all any team needs. If you have solid prospects like the Rangers do, you could always trade them for established elite talent.
Which is why, for the umpteenth time, we should have been sellers at the deadline for at least two of the last three years. Clark has been quite good where he's drafted. Imagine what he could have done with a 4th-8th overall pick or two...

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06-22-2011, 09:01 AM
  #112
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I liked some of our later round snags like Grachev and Horak but I am too wanting more from our picks in 06-10.

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06-22-2011, 09:09 AM
  #113
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Biggs is definately a Torts' kind of player. Malone is a good comparison, so is Lucic. A hulk who hits like a train, is a mean SOB, can play the front of the goalie on the PP, and pot 20 goals a season. He might be gone before the Rangers pick however.

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06-22-2011, 09:14 AM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
Which is why, for the umpteenth time, we should have been sellers at the deadline for at least two of the last three years. Clark has been quite good where he's drafted. Imagine what he could have done with a 4th-8th overall pick or two...
And, for the umpteenth time, it's completely foolish to believe that a team competing for a playoff spot every year until the last day of the season are going to be sellers at the deadline. In the fantasy land where you live, maybe the 2-3 home games that generate ~2 million revenue/per game is something you flippantly throw away on getting a higher draft pick. In the real world, that doesn't happen - especially a big market like this one.

I don't entirely disagree with your idea, but it's not going to happen. Could you imagine Toronto being tied for a playoff spot and selling at the trade deadline? Those fans would burn the city to the ground.

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06-22-2011, 09:38 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
I have to say that when scouts are more interested in someone like Biggs because he throws big hits, rather than any other skills he may have, it really turns me off to picking him in the 1st round.

Guy sounds like a prototypical 2nd-3rd round pick, not someone you take in the middle of the first round, even in a weak draft
Completely agree, Lev. Here are two scouts' opinions:

Quote:
Red line report scout, Max Giese, had this to say about Biggs. "He's right up there (at the top of the USHL list) and could be the best choice of this bunch to be a good pro," Giese told B2011DW. "He's a fast, mean, physical in-your-face guy with some leadership qualities. If there's a knock on him it's that he doesn't have the real skills or finesse to his game, and he doesn't always bring that competitiveness on every shift. The consistency is not always there"(Bruins DW).

NHL Central Scouting’s Jack Barzee also gave his opinions on Biggs. “Biggs is another young player who has taken on the job as leader of his team, and does most of their fighting when they have to fight, if not all of it,” Central Scouting’s Jack Barzee told NHL.com. “I think the responsibility for standing up for teammates has taken a little away from his offensive finish … wearing that ‘C’ and doing those things. My gut feeling is that he’s on an uphill path”(Peters).
http://forum.canucks.com/blog/361/en...g-62-200-usdp/
Do we really want a player who most scouts say has little offensive ability with the 15th pick in the draft? I don't see how it is any different than picking McIlrath with the 10th. I want upside, not a 3rd line grinder.

Would love if they could trade the pick for a pick next year, but that is quite unlikely. Trading down and getting a 2nd would be nice if they don't like who is there at their pick.

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06-22-2011, 09:42 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by bogans View Post
It has gotten to the point that I really trust Gordie and almost want them to go off the board for a pick, because they tend to turn out really well, ala Stepan. I think drafting a pure goal scorer like Puempel who has questions surrounding him could be a great shot to take with our organizational depth at #15.
Completely agree, unless Clark feels that there is something about the kid that might lead to him not developing. Otherwise, go with the pure goal-scorer and take a chance that he will be a 1st or 2nd line guy that puts the puck in the net. Puempel stats are good, but some don't realize that he was hurt too. His stats would have been even better.

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06-22-2011, 10:13 AM
  #117
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Completely agree, unless Clark feels that there is something about the kid that might lead to him not developing. Otherwise, go with the pure goal-scorer and take a chance that he will be a 1st or 2nd line guy that puts the puck in the net. Puempel stats are good, but some don't realize that he was hurt too. His stats would have been even better.
I'm in agreement as well. Of course, the McIlrath pick was a WTF moment for most of us here, but I trust the way Gordie and his staff are piecing together this team. We have tons of organizational depth at defense. If there was ever a time when that pick was going to be made, it was last year. If Gordie truly thought that there was even a 10% chance that McIlrath becomes a Weber-esque player, then the risk made sense to a degree.

Our picks have consistently turned into quality NHL players. There's not many teams that can boast that. Now that we're stocked on depth, Clark appears to be taking chances, in hopes of us landing that elusive elite talent without the luxury of top picks. McIlrath and Thomas were those risky picks last year, and I expect another this year, except on the offensive side of the puck in the 1st round.

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Old
06-22-2011, 10:16 AM
  #118
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I'm not big into Biggs either.

In this type of draft if you can get a guy who slips, great. Take him.

If you can get a team who's jonesing over a kid at 15 and you can flip the pick for a lower 1 and a 2, or 2 seconds or someone who can help out the team now - go for it.

If you want to go "off the board" to get a risk/reward type forward you wont think will be there at 104, grab him.

Im not set in stone on any of these kids out of the top 10 ranks to be honest. If a kids character and skill set looks promising, even if its on a hunch - trade 15 and take him later. If theres a few guys on Clarkies list that he really likes in the 10-20 ranks and hes on the board, grab him. Otherwise im cool with anything that happens really.

Especially when you picked up a 1st round guy already in Erixon. That makes this all easier. Im not saying you should simply give a way the pick, but keep assessing as the pick gets closer. If theres one draft im ok with trading a pick (for the right price) or getting creative its this one.


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06-22-2011, 10:35 AM
  #119
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Yeah exactly, we traded to 2nd rounders, one of which was Bobby Sanguinetti for Tim Erixon. I'm happy with that. I truly believe Clark has known this draft was going to be poor and they've been quietly been trying to exit this draft. Slats has dealt away 5 picks to get out of this draft, two 2nds, a 3rd, 6th, and 7th round picks, that's not a coincidence. He had a heads up knowing the picks weren't going anywhere. Great scouting by Clark and Gorton.

I say keep the #15 and get as good of a player as you can with it.

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06-22-2011, 10:44 AM
  #120
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06-22-2011, 10:55 AM
  #121
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To link youtube videos, don't put the whole URL between the tags. You only need the video code after the = sign. In this case, that is: CWILhrSzw5o

You can quote this post to see exactly how I did it.


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06-22-2011, 11:01 AM
  #122
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Biggs is definately a Torts' kind of player. Malone is a good comparison, so is Lucic. A hulk who hits like a train, is a mean SOB, can play the front of the goalie on the PP, and pot 20 goals a season. He might be gone before the Rangers pick however.
I have the same impression as well. That Torts would love to have this kid on his team. Even if he lacks a little in the skill department compared to some of the others who might be around Biggs sounds like a player who will go through a wall for his team.

There's another dimension as well--at least a major reason for drafting McIlrath last year was the 'physical' aspect of his game. The idea that you have a guy who can take a regular shift and who is miserable to play against. We sometimes talk here about the need to replace no-talent fighters with guys who can handle themselves, protect teammates and earn their share of ice time. If Biggs can turn out anywhere close to Lucic--then he'll be a very good pick.

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06-22-2011, 11:07 AM
  #123
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To link youtube videos, don't put the whole URL between the tags. You only need the video code after the = sign. In this case, that is: CWILhrSzw5o

You can quote this post to see exactly how I did it.

herp derp...thanks buddy.

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06-22-2011, 11:10 AM
  #124
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I have the same impression as well. That Torts would love to have this kid on his team. Even if he lacks a little in the skill department compared to some of the others who might be around Biggs sounds like a player who will go through a wall for his team.

There's another dimension as well--at least a major reason for drafting McIlrath last year was the 'physical' aspect of his game. The idea that you have a guy who can take a regular shift and who is miserable to play against. We sometimes talk here about the need to replace no-talent fighters with guys who can handle themselves, protect teammates and earn their share of ice time. If Biggs can turn out anywhere close to Lucic--then he'll be a very good pick.
The question with Biggs is offensive upside. You know that he'll hit, fight, stand up for his teammates, be a rah-rah guy in the room etc. What you don't know if his hands will ever catch up to the rest of what he brings to the table. My take is he's not a razzle dazzle kind of player, but has a good shot and a nose for the game. He's not a scrub. With some development and PP time, he could be a 25 goal scorer at the NHL level. If you know that you'll get that year in and year out for a decade, why wouldn't you take him in the first round?

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06-22-2011, 11:10 AM
  #125
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Can't wait until we take Biggs...all the McIlrath haters will have strokes.

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