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Habs to Offer Hamrlik a Contract? (Yyyyikes!) (UPD: Offered 1-yr contract post #683)

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Old
06-22-2011, 10:46 AM
  #151
billy piton
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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
Souray's 5.5 doesn't count against their cap, Spacek's 3.8 or whatever does no matter where he plays. You really think Edmonton would have kept 5.5 million dollars of cap space in their press box all year long?
there is a 4.2m guy who is #9 on the stanley cup finalist

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06-22-2011, 10:48 AM
  #152
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Spacek will not be our 7th d making 3.3m. Period.

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06-22-2011, 10:49 AM
  #153
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
But that's the whole point of it. It's your basis for your argumentation. You say something 'cannot' happen. But let's look at the setting you use to create that false paradigm :

You put him as #7 D. That's your own conclusion, your own assumption (even it's from the other poster. It's not based on reality (as he never acted as one), and past events/experiences have shown that the Habs will rely more on a veteran before injuries arise, and on youth to replace them. Anyone could argue that in the present make-up, Spacek falls between 4th and 6th, as the line isn't that clear between Gill, Gorges and Spacek (with Markov-Subban-Hamr making the top 3). But even then, if he's at #7, he can be used for depth and still lies in a world of possibility as there isn't much difference between him and the other guys at 4-5-6. You're then using the semantic 'value' of being #7 as a derision, yet he would still be close to the others, who's value is jsut small varying degrees.

So this conclusion of this situation (spacek #7 @ 3,8) being (ok, not impossible, you agree) a situation -you do not want-, it is still based on another conclusion, the one based on him being #7. You almost sound like a cosomologist concluding theories on top of a mountain of theories.
If you go back to the op I replied to, he was saying Spacek would be dealt or be held as a #7. I was saying that you can't be paying #7 D 3.8M. In fact, you can, but it would be very bad cap management.

You don't seem to understand that all this talk is pure speculation. Hamrlik hasn't been offered a contract. Markov and Gorges aren't under contract, so in fact Spacek isn't "#7".

So yeah, next time, please don't jump into a conversation you haven't followed since the beginning.

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06-22-2011, 10:59 AM
  #154
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I am going to snap if hammer is resigned

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06-22-2011, 10:59 AM
  #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
But that's the whole point of it. It's your basis for your argumentation. You say something 'cannot' happen. But let's look at the setting you use to create that false paradigm :

You put him as #7 D. That's your own conclusion, your own assumption (even it's from the other poster. It's not based on reality (as he never acted as one), and past events/experiences have shown that the Habs will rely more on a veteran before injuries arise, and on youth to replace them. Anyone could argue that in the present make-up, Spacek falls between 4th and 6th, as the line isn't that clear between Gill, Gorges and Spacek (with Markov-Subban-Hamr making the top 3). But even then, if he's at #7, he can be used for depth and still lies in a world of possibility as there isn't much difference between him and the other guys at 4-5-6. You're then using the semantic 'value' of being #7 as a derision, yet he would still be close to the others, who's value is jsut small varying degrees.

So this conclusion of this situation (spacek #7 @ 3,8) being (ok, not impossible, you agree) a situation -you do not want-, it is still based on another conclusion, the one based on him being #7. You almost sound like a cosomologist concluding theories on top of a mountain of theories.
It might just be easier to admit you used a terrible and ill-fitting example instead of tying yourself up in knots trying to justify it.

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06-22-2011, 10:59 AM
  #156
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I am going to snap if hammer is resigned
You should get treated for that...

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06-22-2011, 11:00 AM
  #157
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I would be pretty happy if Spacek was our #9 guy. Making $3.8M on the cap, sure, whatever. It is what it is. But if he was #9, it'd mean we had 8 guys who were better on the big club, and Spacek is a great option to be able to turn to if injuries pile up like last season.

I'd be a little bit happier still if Spacek was our #9 guy and we were able to trade him or some other team took him on waivers. But if not, no biggie. Having 8 guys ahead of him on the depth chart should give us a rock solid D, and it would mean that things had gone smoothly with Emelin, Weber, and some of our other FA pursuits. A $3.8M cap penalty would be unfortunate, but a relatively small price to pay for having all the rest work out so well.

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06-22-2011, 11:01 AM
  #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DogsFan View Post
Spacek will not be our 7th d making 3.3m. Period.
of course not.

he makes 3.8m$ :p


if they can trade spacek, i have no problem keeping Hamrlik for less than 2.5m$

but i would prefer trade spacek and keep wiz for 4.5m$

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06-22-2011, 11:04 AM
  #159
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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
It might just be easier to admit you used a terrible and ill-fitting example
Yeah, instead of you admitting you got my comparison wrong. Just the fact you quote a post that has nothing to do with the first comparison (in that post you quote I'm expounding on the "possibility' of Spacek as #7 and of the validity of his conclusion, I'm not even taking of the comparison anymore), just the fact that you quote this instead of the post where I did explain the Souray comparison, shows your dishonesty and your lack of integrity.

Quote:
instead of tying yourself up in knots trying to justify it.
It's easy to say that instead of facing the arguments head on, huh? So you can just shrug it off and pretend it's this way.

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06-22-2011, 11:13 AM
  #160
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
Yeah, instead of you admitting you got my comparison wrong. Just the fact you quote a post that has nothing to do with the first comparison (in that post you quote I'm expounding on the "possibility' of Spacek as #7 and of the validity of his conclusion, I'm not even taking of the comparison anymore), just the fact that you quote this instead of the post where I did explain the Souray comparison, shows your dishonesty and your lack of integrity.



It's easy to say that instead of facing the arguments head on, huh? So you can just shrug it off and pretend it's this way.


Seriously?

Do you know understand what he is trying to say?

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06-22-2011, 11:13 AM
  #161
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I don't understand all the hate for Hamrlik. If he takes a major pay cut and it means Spacek is out of here, what's the problem? He is a great depth defencemen, and if he wasn't overplayed so much he could be very useful to the Habs.

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06-22-2011, 11:14 AM
  #162
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I guess Ballard never signed with Vancouver then, because he's a #7D making what Spacek makes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DogsFan View Post
Spacek will not be our 7th d making 3.3m. Period.
You're right. He makes 3.8 million not 3.3. So he won't be making 3.3m as our 7th D he'll be making 3.8.

And whether or not JM chooses to play him as a #7 remains to be seen but even if he plays as a #4 in terms of quality defenseman we have he'd rank #7.

I'm not saying this will happen, but to speculate that it couldn't possibly happen is just plain laughable. He's a 35+ contract making 3.8 million for 1 more season playing comparable to a #6-8 d. What makes you so sure we'll be able to offload him or that even if JM plays him as a #4-6 he'll actually be equal to one.

Again not saying it will happen, but I wouldn't rule it out either.

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Old
06-22-2011, 11:15 AM
  #163
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Originally Posted by Pandemic View Post
I don't understand all the hate for Hamrlik. If he takes a major pay cut and it means Spacek is out of here, what's the problem? He is a great depth defencemen, and if he wasn't overplayed so much he could be very useful to the Habs.
Unfortunately, I just can't see us moving Spacek.

I have a feeling if Hamrlik comes back, Spacek will as well.

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06-22-2011, 11:18 AM
  #164
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I hope this doesn't mean the end of Markov or Gorges.

If we re-sign Hammer our average age goes up.

As much as I like him, we don't need Spacek, Hammer and Gill back there. They're too slow and they don't offer enough stability. Gill is the exception in the group because he's cheap and he's amazing on the PK but I think it would be really easy to replace Hamrlik with someone younger, and we don't need Spacek on our team either.

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06-22-2011, 11:18 AM
  #165
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Originally Posted by Plekamaniac View Post


Seriously?

Do you know understand what he is trying to say?
You're the one who doesn't understand. He says the comparison was ill-fitted, yet he quotes a post that has nothing to do with the comparison anymore, but has to do with the possibility of the other poster's assertion.

The comparison wasn't ill-fitted, he just misunderstood it and jumped to a conclusion and he thought I didn't get that the other guy was talking of it being impossible regarding cap space. Why not counter my arguments if he can prove it was ill-fitted, and quotes another post of mine instead of the one explaining it? Maybe because he just doesn't want to admit he got it wrong.

You shouldn't talk, mister full-blown assumption. There isn't much you seem to actually 'get'.

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06-22-2011, 11:20 AM
  #166
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By the way, I don't think Gauthier is very happy at the moment. He's usually secretive.

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06-22-2011, 11:20 AM
  #167
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post

You shouldn't talk, mister full-blown assumption. There isn't much you seem to actually 'get'.
Perhaps you should look in the mirror.

Why are you so quick to assume everyone on this board has limited knowledge? Who are you anyways?

Get off your high horse. It is a message board.

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06-22-2011, 11:21 AM
  #168
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Originally Posted by Pandemic View Post
I don't understand all the hate for Hamrlik. If he takes a major pay cut and it means Spacek is out of here, what's the problem? He is a great depth defencemen, and if he wasn't overplayed so much he could be very useful to the Habs.
That's certainly one angle I see it from. Assuming there is at least some market for either guy at $3.8M, who wouldn't keep Hamrlik over Spacek at THAT price? If Hamrlik comes even cheaper than that, then I unload Spacek for whatever I can, even if it's only a late round draft pick.

edit: And Spacek to Florida raises interesting possibilities. Without getting into trade balance details, I think a veteran who has proven success facing Ovechkin might be of some interest to Florida, as one of Washington's division rivals. Gets them on the way to the cap floor without having to get too awkward a contract in return. Bryan McCabe replacement?


Last edited by Ohashi_Jouzu: 06-22-2011 at 11:29 AM.
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Old
06-22-2011, 11:25 AM
  #169
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Originally Posted by Plekamaniac View Post
Perhaps you should look in the mirror.

Why are you so quick to assume everyone on this board has limited knowledge? Who are you anyways?

Get off your high horse. It is a message board.
I'm not quick to assume anything. I've read many of your posts, and I'm not a minority who thinks that you make huge assumptions.

Well, then, since you said I didn't understand what he was saying, this means YOU understand what he meant, so this means you can also prove my comparison was ill-fitted. When you can do this, I'll recognize you have at least the capacity to ponder a bit and not jump to conclusion which is your MO here in the last week. Till then, you can cry all you want.

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06-22-2011, 11:27 AM
  #170
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By the way, I don't think Gauthier is very happy at the moment. He's usually secretive.
Not with his own FAs.

Meehan came out for Markov and others. It doesn't seem to matter when the Habs are still holding their rights. It seems to matter more when it directly has to do with FA and the trade market.

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06-22-2011, 11:29 AM
  #171
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They probabley realize how he stepped up last year, and want to keep him arpound because of injuries. if it's any more than one year though i'm going to ****ing flip.

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06-22-2011, 11:31 AM
  #172
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
Not with his own FAs.

Meehan came out for Markov and others. It doesn't seem to matter when the Habs are still holding their rights. It seems to matter more when it directly has to do with FA and the trade market.
Agreed...........don't get why this is different from Meehan releasing info or Gill's agent or any other player's agent releasing info or expectations.

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06-22-2011, 11:33 AM
  #173
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Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
Wow, a lot of you seem to have thoughts about Hamrlik that just seem totally disconnected from my own subjective reality.

I would have thought it was a no-brainer to give Hamrlik an offer. Any team in the league can use him, and he has been a rock for us, so an offer should be automatic. It would be great to have him back.

There's zero conflict with the number of other players signed, or hoped-to-be-signed, because frankly Hamrlik is better than most of them. And depth on defense is very important.

The only caveats in the whole Hamrlik case are the $$$ and term. You make him an offer, no-brainer. But it's an offer that factors in his age and projection of a decreased role. If he's on board with that, great.

Hey BG nice to see someone with some sense around here!

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06-22-2011, 11:34 AM
  #174
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It appears P.G is happy with mediocrity.

I'm not though.

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06-22-2011, 11:37 AM
  #175
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Hammer would be great if he's willing to take a 1 yr deal at a reduced salary. Still there are a few UFA's that I would like to target (Pitkannen)

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