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Subban/marchand double standard?

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Old
06-22-2011, 10:16 AM
  #151
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
But how does he behave like a football or basketball player?
The hype...

And I have nothing against it.

At least someone is showing some emotions.

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06-22-2011, 10:28 AM
  #152
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Originally Posted by LyleOdelein View Post
Before you pass it back to him, can I add doing a golf swing to the Leafs bench in a game that meant nothing late in the season to your argument? That was probably the most flagrant and stupid example of showboating by any player this year.
Not too mention it's been done multiple times, completely unoriginal.


Last edited by Barilko14: 06-22-2011 at 11:00 AM. Reason: Grammar
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06-22-2011, 10:56 AM
  #153
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Originally Posted by habitue View Post
The hype...

And I have nothing against it.

At least someone is showing some emotions.
Hype? Is he hyping himself up?

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06-22-2011, 11:59 AM
  #154
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Originally Posted by habitue View Post
The hype...

And I have nothing against it.

At least someone is showing some emotions.
This makes no sense...

Again, PK Subban and lets say...Taylor Hall, could score a GWG and celebrate exactly the same way

and some people will say, Subban is being cocky, and almost all of them will say Hall is being passionate.

It's all about perception...everyone perceives Subban to be the stereotypical, flamboyant black athlete, so anything he does, is skewed because of that.

Everyone has racial biases, it's not any different when it comes to hockey players/fans...in fact, it's probably worse considering the NHL has very few ethnic players.

Is Subban cocky? Well, I would say more confidant, but that's not any different then let's say....Patrick Kane, and i've never heard anyone call him 'not classy' or 'bad for the game' or that he behaves like a "NBA or NFL player"?

Perception, is not necesarily reality

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06-22-2011, 12:15 PM
  #155
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I'm curious of any white hockey players you would describe as acting like a basketball or football player.

Do Steve Nash or Dirk Nowinski(sp?) act like typical football players?

Does Tom Brady or Peyton Manning act like a typical basketball player?

(yes I switched them up on purpose seeing as they're interchangable in your example)

I'm white so it's not like this stuff angers or upsets me, it's just getting hilarious at this point.

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06-22-2011, 12:32 PM
  #156
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Yes, there are a tonne of hypocritical rascist idiots who jump on PK for little to no reasoning.
I gave Don Cherry a 'bit of benefit' at the Pacioretty incident. I flat out said, if he would have come on board, and said it how it actually is...
He down played it, blamed it on Montreal (surprise, surprise)

Yes, the boards were at play... But the donkey led the cart Don...
That's what I screamed at my television when he was talking lol

Look, all throughout NHL history, we're the Champs. NO ONE wants to see us back there anymore. It's like the Yankees, little kids are born to learn to a) HATE the Canadiens, or b) LOVE them unconditionally. People see good players on our team, they gotta slag them, or bring them down. Because it's a way to return to former glory, that no one wants us to have.

They will tell you about the Quebec rule. KNOWING that there has never been a case where it was used to benefit Montreal.
They will argue case in point about having so many quebec stars, when it was the figure heads of these other teams that have always said we French men are too soft, too 'euro' to be any good.
Keep in mind, Maurice Richard could have been had for a SONG right before breaking out, and not ONE GM wanted to do anything about it.

Watch The Rocket... as horrible as things could be... The more things change, it's astounding how much actually stays the exact same.

PK Subban has thicker skin than to let some small donkey try and throw his game off.
Furthermore, Subban destroyed Marchand in that one hit... I am sure Marchand does not like PK very much to begin with, and it made him a relative target to had nasty crap thrown his way.

At the end of the day... PK is an amazing up and coming defenceman not only for Montreal, but for the NHL in general.
He will IMO ensure that those words will become embarrassing for those who said it.

It is quite CLEAR to me, the only thing people are jealous at him for, is his zest to play EVERY second of EVERY game. He LOVES playing hockey. It will definately rub off anti-hab fans the wrong way, because they see a GREAT player making his stamp on the league at such a young age, bodes well for PK Subban...

If Subban wanted to tell Cherry anything (which I dont think he does, cause Cherry is a joke anyways) it would be this...
'I may be a 21 year old coming off my rookie season... But I already have broken the amount of NHL games YOU played by about 80 times by now... I am more experienced, therefore more of a PROFESSIONAL than you ever even dreamed to be, oh ya... and tell your buddy Marchand to keep his head up. Or he'll get another one of these. We ALL know he doesnt want that.'

(

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06-22-2011, 12:51 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by CrimsonSkorpion View Post
I think these two paragraphs contradict each other.

In one sentence, you say it's not about race. The next paragraph, you associate PK's attitude with that of a basketball player or a football player, which one can easily assume that you are talking about the flamboyant black players with talent coming out of their ears.

When it comes down to it, everyone likes to say it's not about race but the examples everyone has listed ends up being about race anyways. I hate talking about it because we're in 2011 now and this should not be an issue anymore.
Exactly, even 417 who I can only assume is black and was saying it comes down to ignorance and not necessarily racism. He basically said it comes down to race in the end. Is it ignorance? Sure it is, all forms of prejudice are based on ignorance in the first place. It doesn't make it not racism, it might be more-so subconscious racism but it's still racism.

I'm not saying every person who hates PK is saying "n-word this, PK is an n-word that, I'm in the KKK and burn crosses" but obviously a minority of people may be pretty close in that regard and a decent sized minority at the very least are subconsciously racist.

I don't believe there is anyway to excuse the comparisons being made here between white players who act like PK and PK who acts like PK

It's like this movie I saw "My Name is Khan". It's about this guy who has a disorder that makes him unable to perceive emotions properly. In the beginning the mother draws him a picture of a himself with a person standing there with a knife to his chest (stick figures)

Below it she draws the same picture only now the person is giving him a lollipop. They are stick figures that look identical. The mother asks the son what is the differences between the two people? The boy answers "nothing, they are the same". The mother tells him "that's right they are the same, there is only good and bad people in this world. These are the only two types of people that exist" explaining that it doesn't matter if the person is Muslim or Hindu, both are capable of being good or bad people.

A similar thing applies to this scenario. Both people (Marchand and Subban) are known for the stuff they're known for. Only one receives the type of prejudice he gets and it's Subban. Subban is not given the benefit of the doubt like Marchand and other players are. When he accidentally cut Jordan Staals foot people were saying he did it on purpose. I guarantee if that happened with another player people wouldn't be saying that. Heck when Chara hit Pacioretty the entire league outside of habs fans were giving him the benefit of the doubt. Nobody gave Subban the benefit of the doubt with Staal, and I don't even think Jordan Staal himself believes PK did that on purpose.

In the end it's ignorance at the root of it but it all boils down to a form of prejudice. Marchand and Subban are both the same they just play for different teams, it's only because one is a visible minority that he doesn't get the benefit of the doubt. I'm sure many people aren't intentionally being racist but they have their preconceived notions about black people in general and it won't allow them to think without bias.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 417 View Post
This makes no sense...

Again, PK Subban and lets say...Taylor Hall, could score a GWG and celebrate exactly the same way

and some people will say, Subban is being cocky, and almost all of them will say Hall is being passionate.

It's all about perception...everyone perceives Subban to be the stereotypical, flamboyant black athlete, so anything he does, is skewed because of that.

Everyone has racial biases, it's not any different when it comes to hockey players/fans...in fact, it's probably worse considering the NHL has very few ethnic players.

Is Subban cocky? Well, I would say more confidant, but that's not any different then let's say....Patrick Kane, and i've never heard anyone call him 'not classy' or 'bad for the game' or that he behaves like a "NBA or NFL player"?

Perception, is not necesarily reality
Agree with this completely. Sure everyone has racial bias whether it's in favor or against. But what I wonder is how you feel this isn't a form of racism. It's one thing to not like a player, it's an entirely other thing to not like a player because you nit pick every little thing he does as a result of being black. Like I mentioned with the Staal comparison to the Pacioretty injury, it was what Subban's 10th NHL game (mostly playoffs) and people were already willing to just assume he did it on purpose With Chara a guy who has done stuff like this in the past but always escaped suspension, people were more than willing to use excuses like "it's a one time thing" or "he's never been suspended before" but where was all the support for Subban outside of the habs side of things? People automatically assume this rookie who has no history of being a dirty player purposely injured Staal. I find that to be very pathetic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost # 1 View Post
If Subban wanted to tell Cherry anything (which I dont think he does, cause Cherry is a joke anyways) it would be this...
'I may be a 21 year old coming off my rookie season... But I already have broken the amount of NHL games YOU played by about 80 times by now... I am more experienced, therefore more of a PROFESSIONAL than you ever even dreamed to be, oh ya... and tell your buddy Marchand to keep his head up. Or he'll get another one of these. We ALL know he doesnt want that.'
Fixed the youtube video and just wanted to let you know I lol'd big time at that line

PS: Sure looked like he was "hiding" there after the hit

Yeah he sure needed the big bad "Picard" to fight his battle for him

Bruins players using the "hold back" method of trying to make themselves look bad ass. "I was gonna drop them with PK but Picard held me back!"


Last edited by neofury*: 06-22-2011 at 01:02 PM.
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06-22-2011, 01:06 PM
  #158
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There's many people I know who follow hockey in the U.S. There are countless number of times where the Habs have played against their teams and we have been referred to as "the stupid french" (even by people on other teams' boards here.) To you and me, this statement is, naturally, idiotic because we know we have maybe 2 francophone players on the team. However it goes to show that even a generally spoken language in Quebec is a base for discrimination.

Is it therefore, I ask, far-fetched that a player's skin color on said "stupid french team" is also a basis for discrimination ? I don't think so...

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06-22-2011, 01:19 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by Ollie Williams View Post
There's many people I know who follow hockey in the U.S. There are countless number of times where the Habs have played against their teams and we have been referred to as "the stupid french" (even by people on other teams' boards here.) To you and me, this statement is, naturally, idiotic because we know we have maybe 2 francophone players on the team. However it goes to show that even a generally spoken language in Quebec is a base for discrimination.

Is it therefore, I ask, far-fetched that a player's skin color on said "stupid french team" is also a basis for discrimination ? I don't think so...
agreed, and while people like to pretend things like this rarely happen it's actually quite the opposite...

I hear stuff abour black people or frenchies (I am one) and sometimes both every day at work... every single one of them...

I mean, I just changed my face to black in NHL11 (I know, PS3 games arent reality) and you wouldnt believe the number of messages like "damn nigg*** suck at hockey" and all that I receive...

now, imagine a black guy like PK, who isnt just a video game character......

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06-22-2011, 01:23 PM
  #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollie Williams View Post
There's many people I know who follow hockey in the U.S. There are countless number of times where the Habs have played against their teams and we have been referred to as "the stupid french" (even by people on other teams' boards here.) To you and me, this statement is, naturally, idiotic because we know we have maybe 2 francophone players on the team. However it goes to show that even a generally spoken language in Quebec is a base for discrimination.

Is it therefore, I ask, far-fetched that a player's skin color on said "stupid french team" is also a basis for discrimination ? I don't think so...
ug, double whammy, hes black and plays for a french Canadian team!

I kid i kid

who cares how they celebrate a goal or act, as long as it's not dangerous to someone, great thing about hockey is the other team gets a chance to physically shut them up.

as a bruins fan, I would take PK any day, the guy is a great player. I am also glad Marchand is a Bruin because I would absolutely hate him if he wasn't

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06-22-2011, 01:31 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by neofury View Post
Exactly, even 417 who I can only assume is black and was saying it comes down to ignorance and not necessarily racism. He basically said it comes down to race in the end. Is it ignorance? Sure it is, all forms of prejudice are based on ignorance in the first place. It doesn't make it not racism, it might be more-so subconscious racism but it's still racism.

I'm not saying every person who hates PK is saying "n-word this, PK is an n-word that, I'm in the KKK and burn crosses" but obviously a minority of people may be pretty close in that regard and a decent sized minority at the very least are subconsciously racist.

I don't believe there is anyway to excuse the comparisons being made here between white players who act like PK and PK who acts like PK

It's like this movie I saw "My Name is Khan". It's about this guy who has a disorder that makes him unable to perceive emotions properly. In the beginning the mother draws him a picture of a himself with a person standing there with a knife to his chest (stick figures)

Below it she draws the same picture only now the person is giving him a lollipop. They are stick figures that look identical. The mother asks the son what is the differences between the two people? The boy answers "nothing, they are the same". The mother tells him "that's right they are the same, there is only good and bad people in this world. These are the only two types of people that exist" explaining that it doesn't matter if the person is Muslim or Hindu, both are capable of being good or bad people.

A similar thing applies to this scenario. Both people (Marchand and Subban) are known for the stuff they're known for. Only one receives the type of prejudice he gets and it's Subban. Subban is not given the benefit of the doubt like Marchand and other players are. When he accidentally cut Jordan Staals foot people were saying he did it on purpose. I guarantee if that happened with another player people wouldn't be saying that. Heck when Chara hit Pacioretty the entire league outside of habs fans were giving him the benefit of the doubt. Nobody gave Subban the benefit of the doubt with Staal, and I don't even think Jordan Staal himself believes PK did that on purpose.

In the end it's ignorance at the root of it but it all boils down to a form of prejudice. Marchand and Subban are both the same they just play for different teams, it's only because one is a visible minority that he doesn't get the benefit of the doubt. I'm sure many people aren't intentionally being racist but they have their preconceived notions about black people in general and it won't allow them to think without bias.



Agree with this completely. Sure everyone has racial bias whether it's in favor or against. But what I wonder is how you feel this isn't a form of racism. It's one thing to not like a player, it's an entirely other thing to not like a player because you nit pick every little thing he does as a result of being black. Like I mentioned with the Staal comparison to the Pacioretty injury, it was what Subban's 10th NHL game (mostly playoffs) and people were already willing to just assume he did it on purpose With Chara a guy who has done stuff like this in the past but always escaped suspension, people were more than willing to use excuses like "it's a one time thing" or "he's never been suspended before" but where was all the support for Subban outside of the habs side of things? People automatically assume this rookie who has no history of being a dirty player purposely injured Staal. I find that to be very pathetic.



Fixed the youtube video and just wanted to let you know I lol'd big time at that line

PS: Sure looked like he was "hiding" there after the hit

Yeah he sure needed the big bad "Picard" to fight his battle for him

Bruins players using the "hold back" method of trying to make themselves look bad ass. "I was gonna drop them with PK but Picard held me back!"
Thanks for the fix lol


At the end of the day that's what I LOVE about PK though.

People hate him because he's a rookie who owns everything he does. Someone on the ice doesn't like how he plays? Well that's too damn bad. Go cry to the 'Don'... Cause we know that his 'pink-o' ties, and flower patterned suits will sop up some of those tears.
He might send you the dry cleaning bill though. Dinosaurs are usually a 'little' crotchety about their money

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06-22-2011, 01:41 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
agreed, and while people like to pretend things like this rarely happen it's actually quite the opposite...

I hear stuff abour black people or frenchies (I am one) and sometimes both every day at work... every single one of them...

I mean, I just changed my face to black in NHL11 (I know, PS3 games arent reality) and you wouldnt believe the number of messages like "damn nigg*** suck at hockey" and all that I receive...

now, imagine a black guy like PK, who isnt just a video game character......
Exactly - like I had mentioned in another post the people acting like racism no longer exists or that PK isn't having these issues partly in part due to race are either...

A) Sheltered their entire life and have no knowledge of the real world.
B) Extremely Naive
C) Racists themselves and just can't accept/admit it, so they'd rather just say "oh I don't like PK cause of the way he acts" meanwhile they have a white player on their team who acts worse.

Also regarding the Frenchie thing, what about all the people just around here who hate on AK but when you ask them why they give ******** reasons. Some of them may just be puppets of the media and friends, some of it is based on prejudice against Russians and Euros. Also outside of HF (the bubble some people apparently live in) I see/hear this anti-Euro garbage from people all the time. Just because on HF we have awesome mods who do a great job doesn't mean there aren't those who hate for that reason. Truth is if AK was name Jean-Guy Chabot and put up similar numbers at the same pace he wouldn't be "inconsistent" anymore, he'd be a "solid top 9 player" because everyone knows non-1st liners who put up 40-50 points generally are streaky or else they'd be 80pt guys.

I don't know what basement a lot of people around here have been locked in or what home schooling they did their entire life to avoid racism entirely to the point of being ignorant to its existence.

It's people that pretend racism doesn't exist who allow it to grow and allow the cycle to repeat itself. As the saying goes history repeats itself. If you don't teach people about racism and how it actually exists obviously they're going to have a smug attitude about it and say things like "look at Iginla" as a response.

I just wonder how many of you grew up in upper middle class families in an almost purely white unilingual(?) community and were home schooled and sheltered to the point where you never witnessed racism in your life or believe it doesn't exist. The way I see it some people need to wake up. Being from Quebec you should be all too familiar forms of prejudice being that there are language issues. It isn't that racism doesn't exist it's just that we've become such a PC culture that even discussing it is considered faux pas. That's absolutely ridiculous imo and it just goes to show the affect it's having on us as a society when I witness racism all the time but we have people on here pretending like it doesn't even exist. Come on now open up your eyes.

Also just wanted to show you what I meant:


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06-22-2011, 02:32 PM
  #163
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Great point on the Chara comparisons neofury. I've never looked at it like that before.

"He meant to cut his foot!", "He meant to slew foot that guy!".

Then everyone tells us it's impossible to know Chara's true intentions, and we're all crazy for suggesting he "guided" Pacioretty's head into the stanchion.

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06-22-2011, 02:35 PM
  #164
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Originally Posted by neofury View Post
Exactly - like I had mentioned in another post the people acting like racism no longer exists or that PK isn't having these issues partly in part due to race are either...

A) Sheltered their entire life and have no knowledge of the real world.
B) Extremely Naive
C) Racists themselves and just can't accept/admit it, so they'd rather just say "oh I don't like PK cause of the way he acts" meanwhile they have a white player on their team who acts worse.

Also regarding the Frenchie thing, what about all the people just around here who hate on AK but when you ask them why they give ******** reasons. Some of them may just be puppets of the media and friends, some of it is based on prejudice against Russians and Euros. Also outside of HF (the bubble some people apparently live in) I see/hear this anti-Euro garbage from people all the time. Just because on HF we have awesome mods who do a great job doesn't mean there aren't those who hate for that reason. Truth is if AK was name Jean-Guy Chabot and put up similar numbers at the same pace he wouldn't be "inconsistent" anymore, he'd be a "solid top 9 player" because everyone knows non-1st liners who put up 40-50 points generally are streaky or else they'd be 80pt guys.

I don't know what basement a lot of people around here have been locked in or what home schooling they did their entire life to avoid racism entirely to the point of being ignorant to its existence.

It's people that pretend racism doesn't exist who allow it to grow and allow the cycle to repeat itself. As the saying goes history repeats itself. If you don't teach people about racism and how it actually exists obviously they're going to have a smug attitude about it and say things like "look at Iginla" as a response.

I just wonder how many of you grew up in upper middle class families in an almost purely white unilingual(?) community and were home schooled and sheltered to the point where you never witnessed racism in your life or believe it doesn't exist. The way I see it some people need to wake up. Being from Quebec you should be all too familiar forms of prejudice being that there are language issues. It isn't that racism doesn't exist it's just that we've become such a PC culture that even discussing it is considered faux pas. That's absolutely ridiculous imo and it just goes to show the affect it's having on us as a society when I witness racism all the time but we have people on here pretending like it doesn't even exist. Come on now open up your eyes.

Also just wanted to show you what I meant:

meh, it's hard to judge IMO, and although I don't think I'm like that, in my time it was somewhat easy to have prejudice as there was ONE black guy/girl in my school, no one from arabic descent, no asian (or sometimes one or two)... they were REALLY a minority, everything they could do would stand out as 99% of the students were acting one way (so to speak) while the other 1% was acting another way...

Not saying it's right, but I get why 40/50+ people could see other "races" the way they do...



Where I have a harder time understanding is for the younger ones. I mean, there's 3 Arabs, 2 Chinese, 4 black (wherever theyre from), 5 hispanic, etc in your class... how can you not be used to it after a few years ?

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06-22-2011, 02:45 PM
  #165
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I'll give it a go...*snip*
Gotta agree with most of this.

When I say Subban is getting the bad press that he does because he's black, I don't mean people make the conscious effort to not like him because of his skin colour. Especially not the fans (because that has come up in this thread already) who I feel just respond to the environment of ignorance the media has created.

There are many parallels between what Subban went through this year and what European players went through when they first came over (and to this day thanks to meatheads like Mike Milbury and Don Cherry). Which is even weirder when you think about it happening not only in this day of age, but to someone who's essentially from Toronto.

They were seen as a threat to the 'Canadian way', Subban is seen as a threat to 'old time hockey' (a term used in this very thread). These expressions are one and the same.

Comparisons were drawn between European players and soccer because it's seen as a European sport. Comparisons are drawn between Subban and basketball/football because they're seen as black sports.

To expound on the above point, hockey fans for all their talk of being a 'blue-collar' bunch are a very elitist group when it comes to liking other sports. It's not enough to not like soccer or basketball, but if you were to ever browse a thread on the subject on a hockey board it usually quickly devolves into posts about those players being wimps, or soft, or any emasculating term they can come up with. Europeans like soccer, so the stereotype European players have to break when entering the league is that they are soft divers. Basketball has a similar stigma, and it's not a coincidence that people propagate unfounded claims that Subban is scared of fighting and a diver.

And those are only the soft stereotypes. I've seen people call European players gutless cowards on these message boards for the simple fact that they had a poor playoff performance. Those are strong words, and ones you rarely see associated with North American born players. Has anybody ever used such strong language to describe Joe Thornton as has been used to describe the Sedins for an average playoff showing? And I don't consider "choker" to be all that derogatory.

When it comes to Subban, now he's just "disrespectful" and "cocky". How long until that devolves into him being a "thug" or a "gangster"? Because I see those terms thrown around in basketball and football threads.

And finally, my favorite part of the comparison. Whenever people want to deal with the subject, whenever somebody wants to call out a person like Don Cherry for being the xenophobe that he is, there's always the same, inevitable defense: "Ya, but _____ is _____ and he likes him."

Yes, that's true. Don Cherry does like some European players. There's a ton of video evidence of him begrudgingly giving them their due. But you know which ones he likes? The ones he perceives to play 'the Canadian way'. It's ok to be a European player as long as you're like us, essentially.

People couldn't possibly have a problem with Subban being black because everybody likes Jarome Iginla! Well yes, that's because he plays the game the 'right way' (fixed that for ya Panger). Ask Ray Emery about basically being labeled a headcase for showing up to work in flashy suits.

There are a lot of people left in the world who view the sport of hockey as a country club, though I don't even think they are aware of it. They aren't doing it to be malicious in most cases (though scum like Milbury should get canned for spreading his propaganda), but as you said it's borne out of ignorance.

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06-22-2011, 04:39 PM
  #166
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Originally Posted by Bill McNeal View Post
Gotta agree with most of this.

When I say Subban is getting the bad press that he does because he's black, I don't mean people make the conscious effort to not like him because of his skin colour. Especially not the fans (because that has come up in this thread already) who I feel just respond to the environment of ignorance the media has created.

There are many parallels between what Subban went through this year and what European players went through when they first came over (and to this day thanks to meatheads like Mike Milbury and Don Cherry). Which is even weirder when you think about it happening not only in this day of age, but to someone who's essentially from Toronto.

They were seen as a threat to the 'Canadian way', Subban is seen as a threat to 'old time hockey' (a term used in this very thread). These expressions are one and the same.

Comparisons were drawn between European players and soccer because it's seen as a European sport. Comparisons are drawn between Subban and basketball/football because they're seen as black sports.

To expound on the above point, hockey fans for all their talk of being a 'blue-collar' bunch are a very elitist group when it comes to liking other sports. It's not enough to not like soccer or basketball, but if you were to ever browse a thread on the subject on a hockey board it usually quickly devolves into posts about those players being wimps, or soft, or any emasculating term they can come up with. Europeans like soccer, so the stereotype European players have to break when entering the league is that they are soft divers. Basketball has a similar stigma, and it's not a coincidence that people propagate unfounded claims that Subban is scared of fighting and a diver.

And those are only the soft stereotypes. I've seen people call European players gutless cowards on these message boards for the simple fact that they had a poor playoff performance. Those are strong words, and ones you rarely see associated with North American born players. Has anybody ever used such strong language to describe Joe Thornton as has been used to describe the Sedins for an average playoff showing? And I don't consider "choker" to be all that derogatory.

When it comes to Subban, now he's just "disrespectful" and "cocky". How long until that devolves into him being a "thug" or a "gangster"? Because I see those terms thrown around in basketball and football threads.

And finally, my favorite part of the comparison. Whenever people want to deal with the subject, whenever somebody wants to call out a person like Don Cherry for being the xenophobe that he is, there's always the same, inevitable defense: "Ya, but _____ is _____ and he likes him."

Yes, that's true. Don Cherry does like some European players. There's a ton of video evidence of him begrudgingly giving them their due. But you know which ones he likes? The ones he perceives to play 'the Canadian way'. It's ok to be a European player as long as you're like us, essentially.

People couldn't possibly have a problem with Subban being black because everybody likes Jarome Iginla! Well yes, that's because he plays the game the 'right way' (fixed that for ya Panger). Ask Ray Emery about basically being labeled a headcase for showing up to work in flashy suits.

There are a lot of people left in the world who view the sport of hockey as a country club, though I don't even think they are aware of it. They aren't doing it to be malicious in most cases (though scum like Milbury should get canned for spreading his propaganda), but as you said it's borne out of ignorance.
This is one the most thought out posts I've read in a while here. It's spot-on.

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06-22-2011, 05:42 PM
  #167
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there has been a lot of good discussion in here about race, but I think with the whole Subban/Marchand comparison, at least with respect to Don Cherry it is a matter of team moreso than race or anything else. Cherry will criticize anything to do with Montreal but praise the same for Boston or Toronto.

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06-22-2011, 07:24 PM
  #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
there has been a lot of good discussion in here about race, but I think with the whole Subban/Marchand comparison, at least with respect to Don Cherry it is a matter of team moreso than race or anything else. Cherry will criticize anything to do with Montreal but praise the same for Boston or Toronto.
Cherry is indeed just an anti-French, an anti-Quebec redneck.

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06-22-2011, 07:35 PM
  #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
there has been a lot of good discussion in here about race, but I think with the whole Subban/Marchand comparison, at least with respect to Don Cherry it is a matter of team moreso than race or anything else. Cherry will criticize anything to do with Montreal but praise the same for Boston or Toronto.
I think this makes an end to this conversation really... The entire playoffs watching him cheering for the Bruins over canadian teams on a canadian TV channel was infuriating.

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06-22-2011, 07:37 PM
  #170
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
This is exactly what I mean...see Rick Nattress, the guy on the right who is knocking Subban and trying to seperate his actions (although they are the same) from the one's Marchand did.

It's all about perceptions...

Not sure if you guys remember this, but during Hurrican Katrina, some media outlets snapped alot of pictures of families after the storm. Two specific photos created alot of angst among people and it was the one's where they had two seperate pictures of people who were wading through the water with food.

One was a white couple, the other was a single black male...and the caption they had below the pictures illustrates what I mean by "not getting the benefit of the doubt"

In the picture with the white couple, the caption read...

"Two residents wade through chest-deep water after finding bread and soda from a local grocery store"

In the picture with the single black male, the caption read...

"A young man walks through chest deep flood water after looting a grocery store"

Sorry for steering astray from the "Subban vs. Marchand" topic, but I think this type of reaction illustrates perfectly what I said in my earlier post. When you're black, you just don't get the benefit of the doubt. You guys can deny it all you want, but it is true.

But again, I dont think it's blatant racism...but there is ignorance and racial bias, you'd have to have your head completely stuck in the sand or have some other reason to ignore this, to not think there's a double standard here in reference to Subban and Marchand
And I love how one of them (in the video) is saying that Marchand is always ready to drop the gloves, while Subban would just had skated away. Let's see:

Subban: 4 NHL fights
Marchand: 1 NHL fight (and it was against Andrew Cogliano)

Subban and Lapierre always gets criticized because they yap and "never" drop the gloves, but of course that doesn't apply to Marchand...

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06-22-2011, 07:44 PM
  #171
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Speaking about acting like a "typical basketball or football player". You guys seeing these pictures of the Bruins partying? Seguin and Marchand with their shirts off in a bunch of them, multiple bottles of alcohol in their hands, could you imagine if this was Subban. Darkest day in Habs history no doubt.

I would love to be those guys though, looks like a lot of fun.

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06-22-2011, 07:48 PM
  #172
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Originally Posted by Less Habitats View Post
Speaking about acting like a "typical basketball or football player". You guys seeing these pictures of the Bruins partying? Seguin and Marchand with their shirts off in a bunch of them, multiple bottles of alcohol in their hands, could you imagine if this was Subban. Darkest day in Habs history no doubt.

I would love to be those guys though, looks like a lot of fun.
Isn`t Seguin under aged? Someone call 911.

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06-22-2011, 08:15 PM
  #173
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Marchand and Subban are alot alike...young, brash, talented...Habs fans hate Marchand, and Bruins fans hate Subban...so be it...

Bruins players get away with playing with an edge, and somehow think it's OK.....the Habs give it back to them, and the Bruins don't like it....next season is gonna be great when we meet head to head...The Habs will use the B's cup win as big time motivation...

Marchand and Subban will dance at some point during the season, ya just know it!

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06-22-2011, 08:22 PM
  #174
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Originally Posted by BLONG7 View Post
Marchand and Subban are alot alike...young, brash, talented...Habs fans hate Marchand, and Bruins fans hate Subban...so be it...

Bruins players get away with playing with an edge, and somehow think it's OK.....the Habs give it back to them, and the Bruins don't like it....next season is gonna be great when we meet head to head...The Habs will use the B's cup win as big time motivation...

Marchand and Subban will dance at some point during the season, ya just know it
!
I sure hope so. Not that Subban is known for his pugilist abilities, but he does have 3" and 25-30lbs on Marchand, it probably wouldn't be the smartest thing Marchand has done so far in the NHL. He'd get worked over , I think.

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06-22-2011, 08:30 PM
  #175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
there has been a lot of good discussion in here about race, but I think with the whole Subban/Marchand comparison, at least with respect to Don Cherry it is a matter of team moreso than race or anything else. Cherry will criticize anything to do with Montreal but praise the same for Boston or Toronto.
May Cherry be rewarded with a Boston-Toronto game with a bloody brawl in the first period and five players from each team ejected and suspendedl,

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