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Habs to Offer Hamrlik a Contract? (Yyyyikes!) (UPD: Offered 1-yr contract post #683)

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Old
06-22-2011, 12:38 PM
  #176
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
I'm not quick to assume anything. I've read many of your posts, and I'm not a minority who thinks that you make huge assumptions.

Well, then, since you said I didn't understand what he was saying, this means YOU understand what he meant, so this means you can also prove my comparison was ill-fitted. When you can do this, I'll recognize you have at least the capacity to ponder a bit and not jump to conclusion which is your MO here in the last week. Till then, you can cry all you want.

I know exactly what hototogisu and bcv were saying.

You were simply playing with your words to make a point.

You are an extremely arrogant individual. You will spin your words and say anything to make a point. You ALWAYS have to be right. In fact, you most likely believe that you are never wrong, it is always someone else. In this case, it is hototogisu and bcv.

I am not going to get in an argument with you over this though.

We can agree to disagree.

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06-22-2011, 12:39 PM
  #177
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I don't understand all the hate for Hamrlik. If he takes a major pay cut and it means Spacek is out of here, what's the problem? He is a great depth defencemen, and if he wasn't overplayed so much he could be very useful to the Habs.
My thoughts exactly. I'd be curious to see what Hammer could do if he played 5-6 minutes less a game.

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06-22-2011, 12:45 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
Yeah, instead of you admitting you got my comparison wrong. Just the fact you quote a post that has nothing to do with the first comparison (in that post you quote I'm expounding on the "possibility' of Spacek as #7 and of the validity of his conclusion, I'm not even taking of the comparison anymore), just the fact that you quote this instead of the post where I did explain the Souray comparison, shows your dishonesty and your lack of integrity.



It's easy to say that instead of facing the arguments head on, huh? So you can just shrug it off and pretend it's this way.
You're getting pretty worked up over nothing. "Dishonesty and lack of ingenuity"? Your comparison was glib, and bcv already knocked down what you keep trying to argue. I'm not arguing with you "head on" because there's nothing to say. But if you want to spin that into a "win" for you, have at it.

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06-22-2011, 12:51 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by Plekamaniac View Post
I know exactly what hototogisu and bcv were saying.

You were simply playing with your words to make a point.
See, again, you only state your conclusion, and bring NOTHING to prove it, you're just repeating something you read further from BCV. I showed an example of something that was thought impossible, to show that other situations that people feel are impossible, are still possible because they lie on the choices of the GMs and owners, not our perception, and in factuality still remain possible as an event, as undesirable as it can be.


Quote:
You are an extremely arrogant individual. You will spin your words and say anything to make a point. You ALWAYS have to be right. In fact, you most likely believe that you are never wrong, it is always someone else. In this case, it is hototogisu and bcv.

I am not going to get in an argument with you over this though.

We can agree to disagree.
Actually, I love being wrong, because it's one step closer to a better understanding. That's how science works. You get false results to get closer to a true result, and this applies to any method of analysis. If you ask people, I've often admitted that I was wrong, but for people like you, it's easier to right off the bat assume a fault on me, instead of debating the facts, because it's just easier this way, and you know what they say about the easy road.

You should take your own advice and look in the mirror, because you seriously lack any scientific method to your logical processes, and instead of seeing something you can upgrade of your own volition, you rather remain in the same mode, and still assume things about me, instead of doing some introspection.

Y'know, I used to be like a lot of people here, jump to conclusions, assume stuff (hey, I still do it from time to time, we all do), but the reason why many others and I have become better at analyzing this stuff, is by introspection, because that's how you realize your errors and find the true logical explanations (after the factm cause it's often related to probabilities) to upgrade the process you used to analyze something.

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06-22-2011, 12:54 PM
  #180
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if Hamrlik signs in the 2-2.5M$ range, it would be a great signing... @ 2.5-3M$, it would still be a solid signing.

despite the undeserved hate, Hamrlik is still a very solid second pairing dman, his play only really suffers when he gets stuck playing a first pairing role for an extended period of time.


imo, if they are looking to re-sign him (especially with Gill already re-signed), then it likely means that Wiz priced himself out of town, or, more hopefully, that PG is confident that he can move Spacek (florida? columbus? edmonton?).

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06-22-2011, 12:54 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by RoyBoyCoy View Post
habsinsideout1 Dave Stubbs
#Habs will make Hamrlik an offer, La Presse reports. via @CKACSports http://*******.com/3dc9ldq


http://www.ckac.com/hockey/nouvelles...ore-82803.html


To play where?! 10 deep?! If we sign Hamrlik, I hope it's not a sign that we're going to deal Weber.


If Pierre Gauthier is even considering this offer - this just confirms in my mind why I have no faith in PG as Habs GM!

Then again, if you look at Gauthier's track record as a NHL GM, building teams of mediocrity are easily his greatest accomplishments at the NHL level.

Based upon his track record......Why any of us HAB fans expect Gauthier to build a Cup contender is well beyond me!



And what if this is...as good as it gets (for the Habs)?

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06-22-2011, 12:57 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
if Hamrlik signs in the 2-2.5M$ range, it would be a great signing... @ 2.5-3M$, it would still be a solid signing.

despite the undeserved hate, Hamrlik is still a very solid second pairing dman, his play only really suffers when he gets stuck playing a first pairing role for an extended period of time.


imo, if they are looking to re-sign him (especially with Gill already re-signed), then it likely means that Wiz priced himself out of town, or, more hopefully, that PG is confident that he can move Spacek (florida? columbus? edmonton?).
If PG can move Spacek...he should be given the keys to the city.

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06-22-2011, 12:58 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
You're getting pretty worked up over nothing. "Dishonesty and lack of ingenuity"? Your comparison was glib, and bcv already knocked down what you keep trying to argue. I'm not arguing with you "head on" because there's nothing to say. But if you want to spin that into a "win" for you, have at it.
You're still repeating the same unfounded conclusion, without proving it, and still using an escape route to avoid having to prove it. Quite sure there is nothing to say, because you don't have any arguments. You want to stay far away as possible from the arguments relating that comparion, because you know full well that you just didn't get it. Just the fact that you had to mention his assertion was related to the salary cap clearly showed you didn't get my comparison from the start. I then explain it, it's simple, and instead of just admitting you didn't get it, you pretend it's ill-fitted (just because it doesn't fit your initial simplistic conclusion).

Also, you keep trying to tilt the "emotional" view of my post for something that it is not. I type quickly and a lot, and it has nothing to do with a state of mind. The day you can tell emotions throught an argumentative text that doesn't hold any informal words, you'll be recognized as the best medium on the planet. Till then, stick to the points.


Last edited by Ozymandias: 06-22-2011 at 01:03 PM.
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06-22-2011, 12:59 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
I would be pretty happy if Spacek was our #9 guy. Making $3.8M on the cap, sure, whatever. It is what it is. But if he was #9, it'd mean we had 8 guys who were better on the big club, and Spacek is a great option to be able to turn to if injuries pile up like last season.

I'd be a little bit happier still if Spacek was our #9 guy and we were able to trade him or some other team took him on waivers. But if not, no biggie. Having 8 guys ahead of him on the depth chart should give us a rock solid D, and it would mean that things had gone smoothly with Emelin, Weber, and some of our other FA pursuits. A $3.8M cap penalty would be unfortunate, but a relatively small price to pay for having all the rest work out so well.
The thing is, with a healthy Spacek in the line-up, you just know JM will turn to him as his shoe-in 6th defenseman ahead of youngsters like Weber who could really use a regular shift at the NHL level.

I'm fine with your thought process, so don't get me wrong. Spacek is a very good insurance if Habs end up with multiple injuries to their back-end, as long as you can pay him and not hurt your cap flexibility too much. I'm just not convinced JM sees things this way and I think having a healthy Spacek still part of the organization in early October pretty much ensures he's dressed for the season opener's starting line-up.

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06-22-2011, 01:00 PM
  #185
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Hammer is good, pay him less and play him less as he ages, we have Subban and now Yemelin coming into a roster spot, good to have vets there to help them.

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06-22-2011, 01:01 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
Not with his own FAs.

Meehan came out for Markov and others. It doesn't seem to matter when the Habs are still holding their rights. It seems to matter more when it directly has to do with FA and the trade market.
I don't know, saying "there are discussions or not" isn't the same as "we will have an offer".

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06-22-2011, 01:02 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by JLP View Post
Hammer is good, pay him less and play him less as he ages, we have Subban and now Yemelin coming into a roster spot, good to have vets there to help them.
Agreed, if we can sign him to less than $3 mill a year and he plays 18-20 minutes he'll be a solid signing. I think he'd be a great partner to put with Yemelin to help ease him into the NHL. He was 46th in the league in total ice time last year which was way too much for a 37 year old..

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06-22-2011, 01:05 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by Melvin Udall View Post
If Pierre Gauthier is even considering this offer - this just confirms in my mind why I have no faith in PG as Habs GM!

Then again, if you look at Gauthier's track record as a NHL GM, building teams of mediocrity are easily his greatest accomplishments at the NHL level.

Based upon his track record......Why any of us HAB fans expect Gauthier to build a Cup contender is well beyond me!



And what if this is...as good as it gets (for the Habs)?
While I DO think Gauthier & Co gotta go... His track record actually is pretty freakin' good.

He built the Senators from essentially trash to contenders...
He built the Lame assed Might Ducks in to cup contenders, and gave way to Brian Burke to finish it up.

Gauthier is definately not a bad GM.... I personally just want someone who plants goals on the board, instead of speculation all the time. I understand the market, but I do think that the Canadiens Brass has to place goals up, so we can see their rights and wrongs, and measure the accountability.

For example... Its NO surprise to any of us that Center is a rather weak link (due to a lack of size)...
My expectations of my management would be to address the questions via media (not like they DONT have ample time to do that).
Give rough reasoning as to how you intend to get it (via draft, trade, or FA) and a rough guideline as to when to get it.

This is where IMO they ALL gotta go. A new staff, with THICK skin.
Seriously, the best guy for the job to me... Is no other than Patrick Roy. Why? Cause he's going to tell you how it is, he wont be so secretive, has a passion for the game, and this team...
I would roll the red carpet out on the old staff leaving, they did do an OK job, however IMO we have to get to phase 2 of building a contender. And that's to get off of Cruise and put some ****ing lead to the gas peddle.

I know I've went over this before, and many disagree.. But IMO Gauthier and Co. are very capable. They just have been here too long... After 7 (In reality, its closer to 12) years, it's time to try something new. Esp. with the lack of success we have had.

No success to me, means a new face is needed.

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06-22-2011, 01:07 PM
  #189
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Originally Posted by ThaDevilGirl View Post
I don't know, saying "there are discussions or not" isn't the same as "we will have an offer".
Both have been said be Meehan.

it doesn't seem to matter if the players are still on contract, and they all are (Gill, Markov, Wiz, Hammer, Weber....)

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06-22-2011, 01:09 PM
  #190
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While I DO think Gauthier & Co gotta go... His track record actually is pretty freakin' good.

He built the Senators from essentially trash to contenders...
He built the Lame assed Might Ducks in to cup contenders, and gave way to Brian Burke to finish it up.

Gauthier is definately not a bad GM.... I personally just want someone who plants goals on the board, instead of speculation all the time. I understand the market, but I do think that the Canadiens Brass has to place goals up, so we can see their rights and wrongs, and measure the accountability.

For example... Its NO surprise to any of us that Center is a rather weak link (due to a lack of size)...
My expectations of my management would be to address the questions via media (not like they DONT have ample time to do that).
Give rough reasoning as to how you intend to get it (via draft, trade, or FA) and a rough guideline as to when to get it.

This is where IMO they ALL gotta go. A new staff, with THICK skin.
Seriously, the best guy for the job to me... Is no other than Patrick Roy. Why? Cause he's going to tell you how it is, he wont be so secretive, has a passion for the game, and this team...
I would roll the red carpet out on the old staff leaving, they did do an OK job, however IMO we have to get to phase 2 of building a contender. And that's to get off of Cruise and put some ****ing lead to the gas peddle.

I know I've went over this before, and many disagree.. But IMO Gauthier and Co. are very capable. They just have been here too long... After 7 (In reality, its closer to 12) years, it's time to try something new. Esp. with the lack of success we have had.

No success to me, means a new face is needed.
so basically all you want is a guy who's more media friendly...

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06-22-2011, 01:10 PM
  #191
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Originally Posted by Clipitar View Post
The thing is, with a healthy Spacek in the line-up, you just know JM will turn to him as his shoe-in 6th defenseman ahead of youngsters like Weber who could really use a regular shift at the NHL level.
I don't see a huge problem with that. I don't think the name of our shoe-in 6th defenseman makes too much difference. Martin might even know something we don't. But generally speaking, I'll try to believe that Spacek's place on the depth chart... which *would* include a trial waiving and start in Hamilton if he was really #9... would be based on merit. A regular shift for youngsters would be nice - if they can handle it - but I don't see them being broken without it.

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06-22-2011, 01:17 PM
  #192
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Originally Posted by Ghost # 1 View Post
For example... Its NO surprise to any of us that Center is a rather weak link (due to a lack of size)...
My expectations of my management would be to address the questions via media (not like they DONT have ample time to do that).
Give rough reasoning as to how you intend to get it (via draft, trade, or FA) and a rough guideline as to when to get it.
Big, talented centers are very rare, and very hard to get. It would make no sense to divulge any kind of plans regarding acquiring one. Through the draft? It depends of the players available, as well as how they will develop. Through trades? It depends of the other team, and admiting to the media that you are on the hunt for playeer X or Y is a very bad way to start any kind of negociation. A free agent? When was the last time a big, offensive center was available come July 1th?

Also, consider that while your center depth is not equivalent to some other teams in the NHL, it's still light years ahead of what we used to have back in the begining of the 2000 decade.

I think people wrongly assume that Gauthier and his team have no idea of what are their team's needs, and grossly underevaluate the difficulties in fixing this. Instead of explaing management behaviors from the environnement they work in, they accuse them of personnel flaws. This even has a name in psychology, it's called the Fundamental Attribution Error.

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06-22-2011, 01:20 PM
  #193
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If PG can move Spacek...he should be given the keys to the city.
Totally agree lol
I think it's funny to think that some feel it's thinking 'outside the box', to solve the issue (of the Spacek albatross)

But the failure to look at the facts:
A FA market that's just about to open up... Offering a heck of a lot of BETTER defencemen, and options than Space...
A disgusting 1 year contract, that they are stuck with for the entire year.. Eating about 4 million bucks.
The Vertigo condition...

People can even bring up Injuries, and how Spacek would look better then... It essentially isnt until February that Spacek would be an option (a very good one at that point) to help another club out.

Im all for it, if it can be done... The odds ARE against it though.

I was for Keeping Hamrlik over Gill even however. To me, he played WELL over his head last year, and though many dispute it... HE was one of the main reasons we were competitive at all after Markov went down. We consistently have asked him to do more for us when Markov went down, and he consistently has responded well.

But it is going to be very hard to trade off Spacek in this time of the year. NOT impossible, but very unlikely.

It's not to say Gauthier can't think out of the box... I just hope he has something we dont know already in the works... Because getting all this rather high-priced back end low line help, is only going to sand-bag us down come February.

The reason why it's so important to keep ONE spot open, is that Yemelin bails if he doesn't make the team IMMEDIATELY. One mention of the word 'AHL' will send him on the next flight to the KHL. It's stipulated in his contract.


But Hamrlik did deserve SOME respect from the Habs. He has been a model citizen since he came over from Calgary.

Maybe Spacek is having a hard time with the Vertigo, is expected on the LTIR (or likely will be) and therefore, Hamrlik signing would make more sense (Because a good chunk of the season would be played... Injuries far more likely at that point).

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06-22-2011, 01:26 PM
  #194
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Originally Posted by Plekamaniac View Post
If PG can move Spacek...he should be given the keys to the city.
I'm glad you don't hold the keys to the city. Moving Spacek is easy. I just don't think its worth giving up the assets to do so.

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06-22-2011, 01:26 PM
  #195
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Originally Posted by Plekamaniac View Post
Perhaps you should look in the mirror.

Why are you so quick to assume everyone on this board has limited knowledge? Who are you anyways?

Get off your high horse. It is a message board.
He's so full of himself he straps a can to his arse to catch the excess him that drips out.

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06-22-2011, 01:27 PM
  #196
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If Spacek is moved and Hamrlik is retained at a lower cap hit than what Spacek costs us now, then PG is one sick GM.

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06-22-2011, 01:29 PM
  #197
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He's so full of himself he straps a can to his arse to catch the excess him that drips out.
Says the guy who was so adamant about Price being a failure not so long ago

I guess you lost that chip on your shoulder?

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06-22-2011, 01:31 PM
  #198
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Originally Posted by neofury View Post
Says the guy who was so adamant about Price being a failure not so long ago

I guess you lost that chip on your shoulder?
Everyone makes mistakes. I am sure he wasn't the only one who thought Price was not going to make it in Montreal.

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06-22-2011, 01:32 PM
  #199
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Says the guy who was so adamant about Price being a failure not so long ago

I guess you lost that chip on your shoulder?
Better to have a chip on ones shoulders than nothing at all.

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06-22-2011, 01:33 PM
  #200
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1 year 1 Million that would work for me.

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