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Acquisitions/Cap management/Roster Building Thread XVI

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Old
06-22-2011, 08:49 AM
  #976
Millhaus
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
i think that sometimes many here mistake varly's acrabatics with ability and neuvirth's sound positional play with lack of it. by their nature neuvirth often makes hard saves look easy and varly make highlight reel saves when they should not hav been necessary.

i think the degree of difference between them is not nearly so dramatic as their style.
i think its just as likely that neuvirth becomes better as varly learns to stay healthy.
I couldn't agree more.

Varlamov has to make so many acrobatic saves because his positional play is sub par IMO. It is nice that he has the ability to do that but those kinds of plays also put way too much stress on his body and thus he can't stand up physically to that kind of pounding.

I think he will improve on his positioning not only to be a better goaltender but also to be a healthier goaltender. Will he ever become a better positional goaltender than Neuvirth? I doubt it.

Neuvirth is already a very good positional goaltender and thus isn't forced to be so acrobatic. He has made plenty of very acrobatic saves when needed in his time with the Caps though.

I also feel Neuvirth's positional play and reading of the game will continue to improve. But he is never going to have the acrobatic ability that Varlamov possesses.

Both those guys are going to become better NHL goaltenders over their careers than they are now. IMO it will likely be 8 - 10 years before they reach their peaks unless injury ruins things for one or both.

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06-22-2011, 08:50 AM
  #977
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I am not either but that thing is a angry rhino on steroids.

From one of my favorite movies.. big is back. because bigger is better. An american tradition. lol.

HaHa hell yea. I just love the name, it's basically "Uber whatever
5000!!!!" Bigger, faster, more expensive!

Gimme my classic 442 and I'm a happy camper

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06-22-2011, 08:55 AM
  #978
RandyHolt
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Varly's style could use some refining to be more efficient. But it nice having someone in our pool of potential goalies that can be very aggressive, yet has the althleticism to recover. Don't you think?

A nice skill set to have, this poster thinks. But I am not in the game. I think its short sighted to hold it against him as a young player. Let him sort it out.

I feel its just speculation that his style is what caused his injuries. It could have been a rut in the ice, could it not?

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06-22-2011, 08:57 AM
  #979
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Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post
Varly's style could use some refining to be more efficient. But it nice having someone in our pool of potential goalies that can be very aggressive, yet has the althleticism to recover. Don't you think?

A nice skill set to have, this poster thinks. But I am not in the game. I think its short sighted to hold it against him as a young player. Let him sort it out.

I feel its just speculation that his style is what caused his injuries. It could have been a rut in the ice, could it not?
I think you are spot on and I agree with TX. Perhaps I'm mistaken but I feel like Holtby has the best of both worlds in terms of his style of play. He's aggressive to an extent, willing challenge shooters and play the puck. However he's rarely caught out of position .... though he sure didn't look comfy during that one shootout.

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06-22-2011, 09:02 AM
  #980
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The shootout seems like a mind game. I am not worried about Holtby in that regard, because breakaways on the goalie can easily be practiced. Serious drill work. Only takes 2 people to work on it.

The times he was undressed, the move to do was the poke check. They held the puck on him. It was ugly. Only one way to go... up hopefully.

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06-22-2011, 09:07 AM
  #981
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Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post
Varly's style could use some refining to be more efficient. But it nice having someone in our pool of potential goalies that can be very aggressive, yet has the althleticism to recover. Don't you think?

A nice skill set to have, this poster thinks. But I am not in the game. I think its short sighted to hold it against him as a young player. Let him sort it out.

I feel its just speculation that his style is what caused his injuries. It could have been a rut in the ice, could it not?
I think Valamov's and Neuvirth's games are excellent complements of each other sort of like Fuhr and Moog back in the day for the Oilers.

Come playoffs if a team is preparing for one guy and the Caps in need of a momentum changer or just want to spring a surprise and they give them the other those different styles will likely produce a good effect.

As far as Varlamov's inability to stay healthy goes, could all of those injuries be the results of freak rut catching? Sure but it isn't likely, especially since all of the other goaltenders the Caps used have been able to avoid those ruts.

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06-22-2011, 09:08 AM
  #982
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Gotta say that of Neuvirth and Varlamov, I think Varlamov has the higher ceiling. He's not that bad positionally, and position can be learned. Neuvirth could be very good, but you can't learn to be spectacular.

I think the above makes Varlamov the more attractive trade option, but only when Holtby is ready to split time with Neuvirth. Is that now? Did McPhee re-sign Sabourin with the intention of playing Sabourin/Ford in Hershey and moving Neuvirth or Varlamov? I don't think he'd move Holtby...

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06-22-2011, 09:43 AM
  #983
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post
Varly's style could use some refining to be more efficient. But it nice having someone in our pool of potential goalies that can be very aggressive, yet has the althleticism to recover. Don't you think?

A nice skill set to have, this poster thinks. But I am not in the game. I think its short sighted to hold it against him as a young player. Let him sort it out.

I feel its just speculation that his style is what caused his injuries. It could have been a rut in the ice, could it not?
Doesn't Holtby fit that aggressive mold? And he has the nutty goaltender attitude to boot. I'd rather see the Caps let Varley go, and hold on to Neuvy and Holtby, instead of signing Varley to a contract that his body probably can't honor.

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06-22-2011, 10:03 AM
  #984
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Holtby is aggressive, but not in the finesse way of Gumby. More in how a young kid is aggressive. But Holtby's game has changed a lot in what little I have seen, and he remains a work in progress. But his aggressiveness isnt limited to challenging shooters. And he doesnt recover nearly as well as Varly so he needs to reconsider that more than varly does.

Varly could have torn up his groin one time, one rut, and it never be the same since, reinjuring it pushing off. We can only speculate. If his aggressive style cause his injuries, it probably should have when George was eyeballing him at the draft table. Injury prone... pass. Did he only get injury prone being presumably schooled to be more techincally sound, using less movement? See where I am going? Did Irbe have him more efficient, and then thats when he got injured? it doesn't make sense.

Neuvy is technically sound enough to hold down the fort until Holtby and Varly sort through their issues, and make George's final choices easy. In the end, I hope to see Varly and Holtby.

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06-22-2011, 10:20 AM
  #985
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post
Varly's style could use some refining to be more efficient. But it nice having someone in our pool of potential goalies that can be very aggressive, yet has the althleticism to recover. Don't you think?

A nice skill set to have, this poster thinks. But I am not in the game. I think its short sighted to hold it against him as a young player. Let him sort it out.

I feel its just speculation that his style is what caused his injuries. It could have been a rut in the ice, could it not?
you can feel that its just speculation if you wish. ive heard this sentiment from caps officials and coaches for some time. that he relies on his athleticism too much and he becomes vulnerable to injury as a result.

who said having one of the two goalies to be aggressive and athletic is a bad thing? dont take that conclusion from my comments.

what you can take is this. at 22 years old its hard to tell which of these goalies becomes the best. neuvirth has shown he can play an entire championship playoff run, twice. varlamov has shown he can be lights out when its live or die. they both have room to improve, though and that will be critical.

its like saying that holtby is going to be the best of the bunch because of his puck handling skills. it could work out that way, but we have also seen him give the puck away and an empty net goal result. as with varly if holtby learns how to properly use his skills, he can be outstanding. misuse of those skills can also be their downfall.

only time will tell about those things

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Old
06-22-2011, 10:29 AM
  #986
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Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post
If his aggressive style cause his injuries, it probably should have when George was eyeballing him at the draft table. Injury prone... pass. Did he only get injury prone being presumably schooled to be more techincally sound, using less movement? See where I am going? Did Irbe have him more efficient, and then thats when he got injured? it doesn't make sense.
You play so many more games in North American hockey than you do in European hockey. The KHL season is 54 games, the SEL season is 55 games. There is a lot less recuperation time in NA hockey. Also the quicker pace of the game requires more explosive movements more often during the games in general.

Varlamov has been injury prone since he came to NA. His total amount of regular season games during his years over here are 33, 29, and 30 split between Hershey and DC. His injury issues didn't just crop up last year under Irbe.

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06-22-2011, 10:32 AM
  #987
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Oh good another goalie debate

Facts:

Varlamov threatened to go to the KHL if he doesn't get things his way

Varlamov is injury prone

Varlamov has 1 series win in the postseason

I don't even see how this is an issue anymore, it's time to move on.

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Old
06-22-2011, 10:37 AM
  #988
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Injuries can be quite bizarre. Is it in the DNA, not stretching enough before the game? Being aggressive on pushoffs? Reinjury what was from an injury at age 16 no one here knows about? Pat Peake, one and done. My new personal fav, Bruce misusing, overusing or underusing G's.

Thanks Millhaus, I didnt know his injury history.

All of the players are athletes that use athleticism to create jobs for themselves. Well. everyone but you (points at King). I dont doubt people have said him being athletic causes... athletes injuries. Rocket science! Sure its when compared to other more efficient goalies, but still. Holtby didnt tear his groin flying around, did he? You dont want Ovi skating his hardest because he may get injured? All players must play within the boundries of their bodies. Ask George McPhee. I dont think he did. Ha.

A guy at 22, maybe hasnt had enough time to figure it out. Time will answer all our questions.


Last edited by RandyHolt: 06-22-2011 at 10:47 AM.
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06-22-2011, 10:46 AM
  #989
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varly's injury history being a result of undisciplined use of his skills is better than his injury history being a result of him being brittle. the former he can learn his way out of. the later he can't.

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06-22-2011, 11:01 AM
  #990
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Originally Posted by SwedeSpeedBackstrom View Post
Oh good another goalie debate

Facts:

Varlamov threatened to go to the KHL if he doesn't get things his way

Varlamov is injury prone

Varlamov has 1 series win in the postseason

I don't even see how this is an issue anymore, it's time to move on.
Oh good another 'contribution...'

Fact:
Holtby has one more waiver exempt season so there is no need to make a decision at this point as long as Varlamov isn't demanding a long term deal.

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06-22-2011, 11:05 AM
  #991
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i am not so sure its easy to differentiate between the two... Maybe he just needs a new stretching routine. So he can learn his way out of being brittle by preparing better.

Varly is getting injured, being a goalie. If he is oft injured, I dont think it can denied that he is brittle, can it? Has anyone seen him try an insane save that injured him? It always seems like routine plays is when a G gets injured. Well, besides Malarchuk.

A brittle goalie has to be good technically to minimize chances for potential injury. But no matter how much they school him to be more technical, when he needs to throw that leg out or be athletic, he is going to do it. All of them have to do it. Its their job.

Its not like he is George McPhee out there, a small college player trying to find a job being an NHL heavyweight.

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06-22-2011, 11:19 AM
  #992
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There still time on the clock re: Varlamov vs. Neuvirth evaluation (and of course Holtby). Not sure why people here are rushing a decision. #1 goalies take a while to develope.

Funny if you combine all the of the caps goalies they make an uber goalie: varlamov's athleticism and quickness, neuvirth's solid positioning and technical skills, holtby's aggressiveness and stick handling.

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06-22-2011, 12:19 PM
  #993
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What about a $15.5M/5 yr offer sheet to Brad Marchand? It only makes us give up a second round pick.

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06-22-2011, 12:22 PM
  #994
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What about a $15.5M/5 yr offer sheet to Brad Marchand? It only makes us give up a second round pick.
Which, unfortunately, the Caps don't have

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06-22-2011, 12:30 PM
  #995
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Not sure why people here are rushing a decision. #1 goalies take a while to develope..
many here are desperate for movement. fire somebody. trade somebody. let somebody walk.

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06-22-2011, 12:34 PM
  #996
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Oh good another goalie debate

Facts:

Varlamov threatened to go to the KHL if he doesn't get things his way

Varlamov is injury prone

Varlamov has 1 series win in the postseason

I don't even see how this is an issue anymore, it's time to move on.
You do realize there are two separate arguments, right? (Probably not.)
In this case, the argument was mainly about which goalie is the better player. The FACTS! you so helpfully identified have nothing to do with that argument, with the marginal exception of the last one. Neuvirth may be the better option for the team in the long run, but I'm at least as concerned with determining which goalie is actually the best player.

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06-22-2011, 12:47 PM
  #997
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What about a $15.5M/5 yr offer sheet to Brad Marchand? It only makes us give up a second round pick.

I'm almost certain they would match that; also unless Boston is seriously low-balling him (and they have plenty of caps-space so I don't see this being an issue), he may not bother with offer sheets and solely negotiate with them.

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06-22-2011, 12:51 PM
  #998
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What about a $15.5M/5 yr offer sheet to Brad Marchand? It only makes us give up a second round pick.
Can't make an offer sheet if you don't have the compensation to give it up.

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06-22-2011, 01:00 PM
  #999
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Can't make an offer sheet if you don't have the compensation to give it up.
And it has to be your original pick, so who has the Caps' 2nd rounder again?

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06-22-2011, 01:01 PM
  #1000
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And it has to be your original pick, so who has the Caps' 2nd rounder again?
The Rangers (by way of Carolina), IINM.

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