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Habs to Offer Hamrlik a Contract? (Yyyyikes!) (UPD: Offered 1-yr contract post #683)

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Old
06-22-2011, 01:48 PM
  #226
OneSharpMarble
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Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
The idea of going through a season with a 6 man defense corps is just wrong. It never, ever happens. Yemelin and Weber will get plenty of minutes. At least one of Nash and Diaz will also some NHL games at some point next season.

2010-11 games played for Habs
Hamrlik 79
Subban 77
Gill 75
Spacek 59
Picard 43
Wisniewski 43
Weber 41
Gorges 36
Mara 20
Sopel 12
Markov 7
O'Byrne 3
Nash 2
So we will go into the season with.
Markov
Subban
Gorges
Hamrlik
Gill
Spacek
Wisneiwski
Picard
Diaz
Yemelin
Weber

You know a lot of teams that start the season with 10 or 11 healthy dmen? Most of which expect to be in the NHL.

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06-22-2011, 01:52 PM
  #227
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Gauthier is an old school GM. He firmly believes that finishing in 6th-8th place during the regular season and then getting eliminated in the Stanley Cup playoffs is a raging success.

The Cup has been missing from Montreal for so long that he thinks most fans have forgotten what its like and dont really care....................and he may be right.

Gauthier and Martin. Ensuring mediocrity year after year.
While I can't know more than you how Gauthier really thinks, I find it funny when people complain about Habs management like it has been the same for the last 30 years.

They have had 14 different coaches since Mr. Bowman resigned (1979),
6 GM's,
3 presidents, and
3 different OWNERS.

They have not been able to get it right but 2 times (almost 3) since the late 70's, that's true, but acting like it's been the same guys that have been in place for all that time is a little unfair don't you find?

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06-22-2011, 01:53 PM
  #228
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Originally Posted by Ghost # 1 View Post
I dont dispute they are hard to come by. But can you bring up ONE prospect over the past decade that we drafted that would have even attempted to solve this need?
Chipchura? Quailer? Leblanc?
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You say it can be a bad way... But it actually works with the vocal GM's around the league. Case in point, look at the talking piece in Philly the past few decades. He's never been shy about what he wants. He gets it, and gets results because of it. If Clarke wants a BIG center, he said he wants it... then it leaves the ball in the hands of other GM's to come up with offers. Because IMO everybody likes the candy that parks itself on the oppositions shelf.
It is possible to let other GM knows of ours needs and "leave the ball in their hand to come up with offers" without talking about it with the media.
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Totally agree with the Gauthier having a bit of the psychological flaw by now. It happens to many when they stay in a position of power to long.
LOL, you completely missed my point.
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A few years ago, when I was in College, a great interview was run with a CEO who said that he felt that positions that hold great power should be changed over in 7 years... Because that's when they start getting really dull. That being ssaid, we are about 5 years overdue with this crew.
Whatever.

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Old
06-22-2011, 01:55 PM
  #229
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You obviously did not watch the same games I did of him last season. I am beyond myself how people would be able to say in all seriousness that he was the Habs best d-man last year. He was close to awful on way too many nights. I would say only Spacek was worse. Too many unforced errors and giveaways, too many times caught out of position.

And to cap it all off, the way he went down like a ton of bricks against Boston just before their 3rd goal in game 7 was the closer for me. I HOPE the offer is only a courtesy one and we move on. We have enough non-physical, slow d-men that don't / can't join the rush on this team.
You are obviously watching with some kind of biased eye then. Because, he was in fact by in large our best defensemen last regular season. Here is a guy who is what 38 years old? And he steps up and plays first pairing minutes for a huge chunk of the year and eats them up like they are nothing. He finished at a +6 for christ sakes. Did he make mistakes? Of course, every defensemen does, especially one who is over-exposed. The guy has a good outlet pass, is experienced, knows how to play defense. The guy hasn't gotten less than 26 points in the last THIRTEEN SEASONS. A lot of people forget that he was our leading defensive scorer last playoffs with 9 assists in 19 games. And he seemingly never gets injured.

The guy is about as reliable a defensemen in the NHL as you can have. The guy has been rock solid his entire career, no matter where he played. Put this guy on the 2nd pairing with limited PK and PP time, and he is a dime for you.

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06-22-2011, 01:57 PM
  #230
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Pyatt is definitely gritty, his 3 main qualities are defensive awareness, grit and speed...but he is not very big for the style he plays, compared to Kelly or Moen who play a similar style.
Don't know how you define "gritty", but if you don't hit, don't fight, and are not a pest (which usually require that you do at least one of the two previous acts), it's tough to be gritty in my book.

Sorry to sound like an *ss, but there are 100's of players that could fill Pyatt's role, and probably better than him.

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06-22-2011, 02:00 PM
  #231
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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
So we will go into the season with.
Markov
Subban
Gorges
Hamrlik
Gill
Spacek
Wisneiwski
Picard
Diaz
Yemelin
Weber

You know a lot of teams that start the season with 10 or 11 healthy dmen? Most of which expect to be in the NHL.
I expect Picard and Wiz to be gone, and Diaz to be in Hamilton. That leaves 8, which is not uncommon, especially for teams that spend to the cap.

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06-22-2011, 02:01 PM
  #232
buddahsmoka1
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Originally Posted by Papa Bear View Post
Don't know how you define "gritty", but if you don't hit, don't fight, and are not a pest (which usually require that you do at least one of the two previous acts), it's tough to be gritty in my book.

Sorry to sound like an *ss, but there are 100's of players that could fill Pyatt's role, and probably better than him.
Not that I disagree with your over-arching premise. But Pyatt often takes hits to make plays, finishes his checks, is good on the forecheck, and has no problem going to any area on the ice.

Those indeed are gritty qualities.

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06-22-2011, 02:03 PM
  #233
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Pyatt is definitely gritty, his 3 main qualities are defensive awareness, grit and speed...but he is not very big for the style he plays, compared to Kelly or Moen who play a similar style.
Ok there. Let's get this straight.

I'm the one who's being ********, but yet, you put Kelly, Moen and Pyatt, three completely different players, in the same basket as far as style goes? Good... I'm the one whose opinion's worth is right between the toilet and the sceptic tank...

Quote:
Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
Not that I disagree with your over-arching premise. But Pyatt often takes hits to make plays, finishes his checks, is good on the forecheck, and has no problem going to any area on the ice.

Those indeed are gritty qualities.
If Pyatt is gritty, anybody in the league is. He might be a hustling player who works hard. That doesn't make him a gritty guy. Gritty means the opponent will have trouble against you along the board, which definitely isn't the case for Pyatt.

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06-22-2011, 02:04 PM
  #234
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'This is what I'm prepared to offer'

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06-22-2011, 02:08 PM
  #235
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Originally Posted by BrowsingForACup View Post
If Pyatt is gritty, anybody in the league is. He might be a hustling player who works hard. That doesn't make him a gritty guy. Gritty means the opponent will have trouble against you along the board, which definitely isn't the case for Pyatt.
Is there a secret dictionary somewhere around here?

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06-22-2011, 02:10 PM
  #236
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Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
Is there a secret dictionary somewhere around here?
No, but that's pretty much a given. For christ sake. How desperate people are to label Pyatt a gritty player?!

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06-22-2011, 02:13 PM
  #237
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No, but that's pretty much a given. For christ sake. How desperate people are to label Pyatt a gritty player?!
Forget gritty, I consider the ones labelling Pyatt an NHL caliber player to be desperate enough.

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06-22-2011, 02:14 PM
  #238
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I have no problem with this as long as its reasonably priced and short term. Hammer always came up big when Markov went down with injuries and played beyond what he was expected. If we manage to stay healthy next year I think Hamrlik can do well in a more limited role. I just hope it doesn't mean they're giving up on signing Wiz.

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06-22-2011, 02:20 PM
  #239
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given that Hammer's agent is Svoboda (who also happens to be Jagr's agent), could this be a 2-play where the agent will "put in a good word" for the Habs with Jagr if they get him a solid commission with Hamrlik's new contract?

just speculating but I know that what i'd do if I repped both players...

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Old
06-22-2011, 02:20 PM
  #240
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Originally Posted by BrowsingForACup View Post
No, but that's pretty much a given. For christ sake. How desperate people are to label Pyatt a gritty player?!
IMO he deserves his share of the 'Mr. Cottonelle' trophy™, along with Scott Gomez.

The award was named after Alex Tanguay's 2008-2009 performance.

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06-22-2011, 02:21 PM
  #241
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I have no problem with this as long as its reasonably priced and short term. Hammer always came up big when Markov went down with injuries and played beyond what he was expected. If we manage to stay healthy next year I think Hamrlik can do well in a more limited role. I just hope it doesn't mean they're giving up on signing Wiz.
If they want to keep both, its doable, but they'd have to manage trading Spacek, unless they plan on carrying 9 Ds, and not signing anyone to add to the top 9 on offense, then they could have all 3 and Markov and carry an 9 D squad, but I don't see that happening.

I think it's still not over for Wiz. I wonder what are Gauthier's plans for Spacek.

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06-22-2011, 02:21 PM
  #242
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I really want Wiz back instead of Hamrlik.

We can imagine a 3 mil contract for Hamr and approx 1.5 to 2 mil more for Wiz.
Why not just pay the extra, get the extra 40 points as well as more toughness
and a much younger player who already knows our system. he would fit perfectly in our top 4 with Gorges as a 2nd pairing. (or mix and match with Markov - Subban)

Markov - Subban
Wiz- Gorges
Gill - Spacek
Emelin - Weber

If the Habs can trade Spacek, all the better. Everyone goes up a notch and Diaz can start his career here instead of Hamilton

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06-22-2011, 02:24 PM
  #243
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I can't take people seriously when they say Hamrlik was bad for us during his tenure. And that's not to say anything bad about posters who do believe that, but to me it's just like saying water is dry. It does not mesh with my experiences. He's been our best d-man the past 2 years with Markov out.

That's not to say I necessarily want him back. Going into the off-season I could see us retaining 2/3 of Hamrlik, Gill and Spacek with Spacek most likely taking up one of those slots due to circumstances. With Gill signed, I'd rather find a longer term solution for the hole Hamrlik leaves in this great crop of UFA d-men.

Now, if signing Hamrlik means moving Spacek and also signing a UFA d-man to be paired with Markov then I'd be ecstatic. I don't see that happening, but it'd be close to my ideal scenario.

Back to the subject of Hamrlik's abilities, here's a bold statement for you: Had he not been paired with Wisniewski I don't think people would be knocking down PG's door to re-sign the Wiz. There's a pattern in who gets paired with Hammer because he's a stabilizing force, and he helped Wisniewski's game much more than the other way around.

And because of that I'd love to see him paired with Subban in the future. I think that would do even more good for PK's career than being paired with Gill this past season.

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06-22-2011, 02:26 PM
  #244
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Originally Posted by habs_24x View Post
I really want Wiz back instead of Hamrlik.

We can imagine a 3 mil contract for Hamr and approx 1.5 to 2 mil more for Wiz.
Why not just pay the extra, get the extra 40 points as well as more toughness
and a much younger player who already knows our system. he would fit perfectly in our top 4 with Gorges as a 2nd pairing. (or mix and match with Markov - Subban)

Markov - Subban
Wiz- Gorges
Gill - Spacek
Emelin - Weber

If the Habs can trade Spacek, all the better. Everyone goes up a notch and Diaz can start his career here instead of Hamilton
Exactly.

I don't understand people saying "it must mean Spacek is gone if we bring back Hamrlik".

Well, if we can move Spacek, why not bring back Wisniewski over Hamrik?

That is a no-brainer to me.

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06-22-2011, 02:28 PM
  #245
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Originally Posted by habs_24x View Post
I really want Wiz back instead of Hamrlik.

We can imagine a 3 mil contract for Hamr and approx 1.5 to 2 mil more for Wiz.
Why not just pay the extra, get the extra 40 points as well as more toughness
and a much younger player who already knows our system. he would fit perfectly in our top 4 with Gorges as a 2nd pairing. (or mix and match with Markov - Subban)

Markov - Subban
Wiz- Gorges
Gill - Spacek
Emelin - Weber

If the Habs can trade Spacek, all the better. Everyone goes up a notch and Diaz can start his career here instead of Hamilton
extra 40 points? so wiz is 70+ guy now?

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Old
06-22-2011, 02:35 PM
  #246
Ozymandias
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Originally Posted by habs_24x View Post
I really want Wiz back instead of Hamrlik.

We can imagine a 3 mil contract for Hamr and approx 1.5 to 2 mil more for Wiz.
Why not just pay the extra, get the extra 40 points as well as more toughness
and a much younger player who already knows our system. he would fit perfectly in our top 4 with Gorges as a 2nd pairing. (or mix and match with Markov - Subban)

Markov - Subban
Wiz- Gorges
Gill - Spacek
Emelin - Weber

If the Habs can trade Spacek, all the better. Everyone goes up a notch and Diaz can start his career here instead of Hamilton
What??? Hamrlik finished with 34 points in 79 games and Wiz with 51 in 75 games. He had 17 points more in 4 games less played, that's hardly a 40 points difference. Wiz was the main contributor too, what will happen when Markov gets the responsibility back? Chances are Wiz's stats will go down, as his opportunities will decrease especially since he'll also be behind Subban for the right side position. You say added toughness, yet you don't seem to understand that Hamrlik doesn't need to be hitting all sides to play tough and big, he does it very good in front and around the net, something Wiz has a hard time with, and which we'll need.

What you seem forget, other than the fact that Markov will take the #1 responsibility for carrying the offense from the back-end, is that despite having the best TeamsGFper60min (which is usually Markov's) title on our team, Wiz's GAA (part of +/-) is a bit higher (bad) than Hamr's, but has been against weaker competition than what Hamrlik had to face, with less ice time to burn him out, and a lot less ES time on average (a lot more PP time for Wiz, which with Markov and Subban, he will also get less).

I like Wiz, but the choice between him and Hamr has more to do with the makeup of the team, than the actual comparison of the two.

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06-22-2011, 02:36 PM
  #247
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extra 40 points? so wiz is 70+ guy now?
Naw, you know what i mean... Wiz is good for 50 pts and Hamr is good for 10-20 maybe depending how much he plays. Give or take

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06-22-2011, 02:36 PM
  #248
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Wiz won't be back it was clear the day after the PO.

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06-22-2011, 02:38 PM
  #249
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No, but that's pretty much a given. For christ sake. How desperate people are to label Pyatt a gritty player?!
Any player who generally has almost zero definable qualities but is seen in a few scrums becomes "gritty", Like Picard.

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06-22-2011, 02:40 PM
  #250
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IMO he deserves his share of the 'Mr. Cottonelle' trophy™, along with Scott Gomez.

The award was named after Alex Tanguay's 2008-2009 performance.
Actually, it's quite the opposite... he goes into the corners whenever he needs to, doesnt shy away or disappear when games gets physical... he doesnt hit very hard or anything, but he's ready to pay the price to make plays (even though he doesnt convert much lol), never whine or complain...

If you remember, in the WWE game VS the B... he's the one who went at the B player to fight, didnt wait for the B to come at him... and despite taking a beating, the following game vs the B he still went into the corners, like nothing happened the game before...

if anything, I WISH more players had an attitude like him (but more talent though).

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