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Habs to Offer Hamrlik a Contract? (Yyyyikes!) (UPD: Offered 1-yr contract post #683)

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Old
06-22-2011, 05:55 PM
  #351
Monctonscout
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
And that has beem the hallmark in Montreal for the last 18 years. Take the safe road that ensures having a decent team instead of taking risks that could lead to a more successful team.
Yeah it's not like they'd trade the playoff hero in Halak and keep Carey Price or anything...

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06-22-2011, 05:57 PM
  #352
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[QUOTE=Goldthorpe;33848137]Nobody is drafted as an "answer" to anything, unless it's a top bluechip, which we did not draft in the last decade (aside from Price). You pick a player who has some characteristics you like, other you hope he will develop, and then you hope for the best. You don't know if you were right or wrong only years after.



Why don't you assume they haven't? Because they didn't make a press conference about it?

Why you say that "they go about their business, like the problem doesn't exist"? What about Eller, why do you think they went to get him?

Why do you assume that "claiming ownership" on something means talking about it with the public? What would be the point, except create even more expectations for a rabid fanbase?
Quote:

If the same problem happens to different persons, managing different administrations, and with a different ownerships, then it means that its clearly not a personal problem, but an environmental one. If different peoples have the same behaviors giving the same environment, then it makes more sense to say that the environment is probably responsible for the behaviors, and not the persons themselves.

The man has a point, but it's irrelevant to the current situation. It's a rule of thumb, not something you can apply blindly. And Gauthier has been truly leading the habs for a little more than a year, not 7.
I agree that the draft is a crapshoot in ways of true development. But the scouts hired are paid to project players to what they would be effective at the next level. What I mean by this, is that a SCOUT noted Andrei Markov, and found his game to be more effective as a defenceman (drafted as a centerman) or another examle of that is Brent Burns, who was a forward in junior, when he was drafted, and on draft day... Minnesota said their intention on draft day!
So it's not out of the question that there have been guys on the radar, we just go the safer route, and draft the all around guy (which is not what the draft is about. Not entirely anyways). This crew has more or less NEVER felt that a prospect that plays a big center's game has warranted a selection to our club? It's no secret what our club desires...

The BRASS is the environment. It's the same circle that stays in power, it's just a different guy at the helm. But THEY are responsible for making the environment they work in. And you have to keep in mind, when management changes happen here, it's ONE guy leaving, not the staff. That rotation has not happened since Reggie Houle got the axe. So effectively, Gauthier is running the same staff that Gainey ran, who ran the same staff that Savard ran... It's the same carousel.

Furthermore, I would hope to think that they realize the issue... However the admittance 'puts' the problem on record. If they said during an interview in 2000, that size up the middle is a problem... It's now going on the 2012 season... It would be plain as day to see HOW effective they are at doing their job... Im not saying **** does not happen, players dont pan out, injuries etc. But saying they will address an issue gives them a task to do. So do it, and solve the problem or get out, and give the opportunity to someone who can. It's not about their press conferences, or even their interviews for that matter. It's taking ownership in the position they are in. Setting down benchmarks for others to gauge your performance as GM.

On Eller... He is a great prospect, I like the kid a whole lot. But he wasn't brought in here to be a 'big center'. He's responsible. But in no way can he be confused with someone who will put some physical pressure on the oppositions Defence corps.

I never said Gauthier led the Canadiens for 7 years. I said the brass has to be removed, because it's the same circle that's been around since Andre Savard. Gauthier served here before he took the Anaheim job. Timmins & co have been here since November 20th 2000. He has been a part of the brass for quite some time now, so he is definately a big part of it now, and before. Here's his NHL career (compliments to Wikipedia )

Quote:
Originally Posted by WIKIPEDIA
Hockey career

Gauthier started out in the NHL working for the Quebec Nordiques in various scouting roles from 1981 to 1993.[1]

From 1993 to 1995, he was the Assistant general manager for the Mighty Ducks of Anaheim. He left this position in 1995 to become the third general manager of the Ottawa Senators, signing a five-year contract. His time with Ottawa coincided with a turnaround in the team's fortunes. After the 1997–98 season he left his contract early, citing family issues, saying he would take time off to explore life away from hockey. Seventeen days later he was re-hired by the Ducks where he served as president and general manager.[2][1] He was fired in 2002 after Anaheim missed the playoffs for three consecutive seasons.

On July 21, 2003, Gauthier joined the Montreal Canadiens as Director of Professional Scouting. On July 24, 2006, he was named Assistant General Manager while keeping the responsibilities attached to professional scouting. On February 8, 2010, he was named Vice President and General Manager of the Montreal Canadiens.

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Old
06-22-2011, 05:58 PM
  #353
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
It's a lie.

Imagine it wasn't Hamrlik and was, in fact, another 5.5M dollar d-man. You'd say the same thing, because as his payscale suggests, he's suppose to be a PREMIERE d-man and pretty much a star. Markov is ahead of him but was injured and this 5.5M d-man MUST HAVE HAD the ability to replace him because THAT IS WHAT HIS SALARY SUGGESTS.

Stop giving him and his giant salary so much credit.

Hamrik is old, is slow, is weak, has no shot and is routinely behind the play toward the playoffs. We have no room for him either because we have Gill, Gorges and Spacek in the bottom three. He's not good enough for the top 3 either - so he can go straight to hell (Winnipeg) for all I care.
He's been overpaid, I've know that since day 1 of his contract. But you're totally missing the point here, which is that he's been a stabilizing force on the back-end and having him back for about half of his previous salary (I wouldn't give him more than that) could end up being one of the best bang for the buck assets available this summer.

If PG has a fantastic trade in mind, then I'm all for it. But I just don't know many defensemen available for less than 3 mil. that could provide the same stability and versatility that Hamrlik can bring, even as an old fart!

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06-22-2011, 05:59 PM
  #354
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Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
7 more seconds against the #1 line for the Bruins. But nice try on your part like it means nothing. Your "#2" guy isn't even trusted to play against top lines. The coach decided that was better suited for a rookie and a one dimensional giant.

Next.
It's been quite noted that his play drops off quite a bit when he has to play 75% of the season as the #1 defenseman. He's not a #1 defenseman nor does he have the gas to be. He sure did a good freaking job of keeping the wheels on the bus though while Markov was gone until he ran out of steam.

As a #4-#5 defenseman, he's ****ing epic.

Like you said though. Stanley Cup = success. You're right. We need to sign and trade Markov for Ference. Let Hamrlik walk and sign up Kaberle. And maybe find a way to bring in Brett Ledba to replace to Subban.

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06-22-2011, 06:02 PM
  #355
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[quote=natey2k4;33853647]

As a #4-#5 defenseman, he's ****ing epic.

Like you said though. Stanley Cup = success. We need to sign and trade Markov for Ference. Let Hamrlik walk and sign up Kaberle. And maybe find a way to bring in Brett Ledba to replace to Subban.[/quote]

Totally
agree with the bolded part

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Old
06-22-2011, 06:02 PM
  #356
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YES! 3 guys who are 36 and older on d. That's ****ing awesome!

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06-22-2011, 06:02 PM
  #357
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Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
I would like for him to win a cup, but at this point in his career he's probably only going to get that chance if he signs on a bottom feeder and gets moved at the deadline, and I don't think Hamrlik would be willing to do that, and I'm not so sure rebuilding teams will have much interest for a 37 year old dman like Hammer.
I wouldn't be so sure of that

Hamrlik has been widely accredited for helping a FEW defencemen find their game. Phaneuf, being a chief example. He has never been the same since Hamr left Calgary.

Come to think of it... If he did hit free agency. I REALLY hope he doesnt go there lol

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06-22-2011, 06:06 PM
  #358
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YES! 3 guys who are 36 and older on d. That's ****ing awesome!
yeah it's not like anybody ever won the cup with that...~cough~Red Wings~cough~.

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06-22-2011, 06:08 PM
  #359
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
yeah it's not like anybody ever won the cup with that...~cough~Red Wings~cough~.
Agreed.

Because
Lidstrom < Spacek
Lidstrom < Gill
Lidstrom < Hamrlik

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06-22-2011, 06:12 PM
  #360
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CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
Mike Cammalleri ($6.000m) / Tomas Plekanec ($5.000m) / Andrei Kostitsyn ($3.250m)
Max Pacioretty ($1.625m) / Scott Gomez ($7.357m) / Brian Gionta ($5.000m)
Brooks Laich ($3.750m) / Jason Arnott ($4.000m) / Lars Eller ($1.270m)
Travis Moen ($1.500m) / David Desharnais ($0.850m) / Mathieu Darche ($0.700m)
Ryan White ($0.850m)

DEFENSEMEN
Andrei Markov ($5.250m) / James Wisniewski ($4.500m)
Roman Hamrlik ($3.000m) / P.K. Subban ($0.875m)
Hal Gill ($2.250m) / Alexei Yemelin ($0.984m)
Yannick Weber ($0.875m)

GOALTENDERS
Carey Price ($2.750m) / Mathieu Garon ($1.000m)

BUYOUTS: Georges Laraque ($0.500m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,137,176; BONUSES: $400,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $862,824



VERSUS




CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
Mike Cammalleri ($6.000m) / Tomas Plekanec ($5.000m) / Andrei Kostitsyn ($3.250m)
Max Pacioretty ($1.625m) / Scott Gomez ($7.357m) / Brian Gionta ($5.000m)
Brooks Laich ($3.750m) / Jason Arnott ($4.000m) / Lars Eller ($1.270m)
Travis Moen ($1.500m) / David Desharnais ($0.850m) / Mathieu Darche ($0.700m)
Ryan White ($0.850m)

DEFENSEMEN
Andrei Markov ($5.250m) / P.K. Subban ($0.875m)
Joni Pitkanen ($5.500m) / Josh Gorges ($1.500m)
Hal Gill ($2.250m) / Alexei Yemelin ($0.984m)
Yannick Weber ($0.875m)

GOALTENDERS
Carey Price ($2.750m) / Mathieu Garon ($1.000m)

BUYOUTS: Georges Laraque ($0.500m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $61,137,176; BONUSES: $400,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $1,362,824


Last edited by tinyzombies: 06-22-2011 at 06:22 PM.
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Old
06-22-2011, 06:12 PM
  #361
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Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
Like you said though. Stanley Cup = success. You're right. We need to sign and trade Markov for Ference. Let Hamrlik walk and sign up Kaberle. And maybe find a way to bring in Brett Ledba to replace to Subban.
Nope, actually what I said is to not re-sign Hamrlik and to spend more money for someone younger and more talented. Keep grasping at straws.

I loved the guy 4 years ago, thought it was the best signing that offseason. Now he's nearly at the point of being a liability with his lack of speed.

There are better ways to spend money, even if it is just $2 million.

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06-22-2011, 06:16 PM
  #362
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Hamrlik is great until injuries creep in, then he's overworked and pretty much useless.

Does anybody take as many stupid delay of game penalties or make dumber pinching decisions???

Time for Hammer to go.

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06-22-2011, 06:19 PM
  #363
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Originally Posted by Nashy View Post
Hamrlik is great until injuries creep in, then he's overworked and pretty much useless.

Does anybody take as many stupid delay of game penalties or make dumber pinching decisions???

Time for Hammer to go.
There is nobody on the delay of game penalties, as for stupid pinching, maybe MAB.

I'm sure Hammer leads the NHL post-lockout in delay of game penalties, he gets atleast 4-5 a year by my count.

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06-22-2011, 06:24 PM
  #364
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God you guys make laugh sometime... Hamrlik is a beast at 37 years old he still can play againts best player on this league... as a 5th dman with emelin now this is what we call depth on defence .. This guys was our best D all season until Subban was pair with gill ! He still can play hockey and he really want to stay in montreal doesnt matter the salary.... I really hope he sign

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06-22-2011, 06:26 PM
  #365
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There is nobody on the delay of game penalties, as for stupid pinching, maybe MAB.

I'm sure Hammer leads the NHL post-lockout in delay of game penalties, he gets atleast 4-5 a year by my count.
Gill's first year here just before he went out to get his foot fixed I swear he got a delay of game penalty every game for about 7 in a row.

Re-signing Hamrlik

Good: - He blocks a ton of shots. Had almost 200

Bad: - Everything else.

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06-22-2011, 06:26 PM
  #366
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While I DO think Gauthier & Co gotta go... His track record actually is pretty freakin' good.

He built the Senators from essentially trash to contenders...
He built the Lame assed Might Ducks in to cup contenders, and gave way to Brian Burke to finish it up.

Gauthier is definately not a bad GM.....I know I've went over this before, and many disagree.. But IMO Gauthier and Co. are very capable. They just have been here too long... After 7 (In reality, its closer to 12) years, it's time to try something new. Esp. with the lack of success we have had.

No success to me, means a new face is needed.

Here (as I understand it) is Gauthier's ACTUAL track record as NHL GM.

1993 Hired by Anaheim as Assistant GM

No Playoffs in ’93
No Playoffs in ’94
No Playoffs in ’95 (even though PG is let go by mid-season as management decides they want to go in a different direction.)

1995 With’n a few weeks Pierre finds himself as GM of the Ottawa senators:

No Playoffs in ’95
No Playoffs in ’96
Lose 1st round in 1997

Mid 97-98 season PG annonuces “HIS” decision to step down as GM in Ottawa in order to be able to be with his family more often, and that he’s thinking about getting out of Hockey all together!

17 DAYS LATER… He is re-hired by the Anaheim Ducks (where oddly enough, since his departure 2 seasons ago, Anaheim went to the 2nd round and 1st round consecutively!)

4 months after his return to Anaheim,
No Playoffs ’98
1 round ’99
No Playoffs ’00
No Playoffs ’01
No Playoffs ’02

2003 After a disasterous run in Anaheim PG gets fired, and hired by Bob Gainey as a Pro Scout for the Montreal Canadiens!

2006 after Pierre had made some huge scouting mistakes the likes of Janni Ninnema (remember he’s the guy we got for Mike Ribeiro,!) Bob Gainey decides to promote him to Assistant GM!

2009 Bob Gainey steps down as GM, and the Molson’s decide to annoint Pierre Gauthier as the Habs General Manager.


I can't find any SIGNIFICANT success in Gauthier's track record - if this info is incorrect, I (will) stand corrected and appreciate anyone who could correct me!





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06-22-2011, 06:30 PM
  #367
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God you guys make laugh sometime... Hamrlik is a beast at 37 years old he still can play againts best player on this league... as a 5th dman with emelin now this is what we call depth on defence .. This guys was our best D all season until Subban was pair with gill ! He still can play hockey and he really want to stay in montreal doesnt matter the salary.... I really hope he sign
Me too.

Hamrlik at 3.5/4 milion for another year is a sound investment.

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06-22-2011, 06:31 PM
  #368
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Gill's first year here just before he went out to get his foot fixed I swear he got a delay of game penalty every game for about 7 in a row.

Re-signing Hamrlik

Good: - He blocks a ton of shots. Had almost 200

Bad: - Everything else.
So I'm an idiot then, because I always thought Hamrlik was a good passer, had strong hockey sense at both ends...

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06-22-2011, 06:32 PM
  #369
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Me too.

Hamrlik at 3.5/4 milion for another year is a sound investment.
There's no way I'd give him between 3-4. If PG makes him an offer, I'm sure it'll be lower than that.

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06-22-2011, 06:34 PM
  #370
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There's no way I'd give him between 3-4. If PG makes him an offer, I'm sure it'll be lower than that.
I'm thinking 2.75-3.25 mil/year...maybe 3.5 at best.

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06-22-2011, 06:36 PM
  #371
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So I'm an idiot then, because I always thought Hamrlik was a good passer, had strong hockey sense at both ends...
He has terrible hockey sense in the O-zone, are you kidding me?

He's a savvy positional d-man who refuses to throw a hit, clear the crease and can't shoot the puck ever. He's the prototypical #3-4 but he's too old, too slow and too ineffective in the playoffs now.

He's always been a huge choker in the playoffs for the Habs, why do people gloss over this fact???

We're a top team now, no more BS, the Bruins won a cup, we need to as well.

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06-22-2011, 06:40 PM
  #372
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melvin Udall View Post
Here (as I understand it) is Gauthier's ACTUAL track record as NHL GM.

1993 Hired by Anaheim as Assistant GM

No Playoffs in ’93
No Playoffs in ’94
No Playoffs in ’95 (even though PG is let go by mid-season as management decides they want to go in a different direction.)

1995 With’n a few weeks Pierre finds himself as GM of the Ottawa senators:

No Playoffs in ’95
No Playoffs in ’96
Lose 1st round in 1997

Mid 97-98 season PG annonuces “HIS” decision to step down as GM in Ottawa in order to be able to be with his family more often, and that he’s thinking about getting out of Hockey all together!

17 DAYS LATER… He is re-hired by the Anaheim Ducks (where oddly enough, since his departure 2 seasons ago, Anaheim went to the 2nd round and 1st round consecutively!)

4 months after his return to Anaheim,
No Playoffs ’98
1 round ’99
No Playoffs ’00
No Playoffs ’01
No Playoffs ’02

2003 After a disasterous run in Anaheim PG gets fired, and hired by Bob Gainey as a Pro Scout for the Montreal Canadiens!

2006 after Pierre had made some huge scouting mistakes the likes of Janni Ninnema (remember he’s the guy we got for Mike Ribeiro,!) Bob Gainey decides to promote him to Assistant GM!

2009 Bob Gainey steps down as GM, and the Molson’s decide to annoint Pierre Gauthier as the Habs General Manager.


I can't find any SIGNIFICANT success in Gauthier's track record - if this info is incorrect, I (will) stand corrected and appreciate anyone who could correct me!

You forgot what Ghost #1 quoted from Wikipedia earlier

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wikipedia
On July 21, 2003, Gauthier joined the Montreal Canadiens as Director of Professional Scouting. On July 24, 2006, he was named Assistant General Manager while keeping the responsibilities attached to professional scouting.
That means he was in charge of scouting NHLers during that time period. aka he was in charge of scouting Scott Gomez when we acquired him.

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06-22-2011, 06:56 PM
  #373
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
He has terrible hockey sense in the O-zone, are you kidding me?

He's a savvy positional d-man who refuses to throw a hit, clear the crease and can't shoot the puck ever. He's the prototypical #3-4 but he's too old, too slow and too ineffective in the playoffs now.

He's always been a huge choker in the playoffs for the Habs, why do people gloss over this fact???

We're a top team now, no more BS, the Bruins won a cup, we need to as well.
The Bruins won a cup with Ference and Boychuk getting top 4 minutes and smurfs like Recchi(5'8") and Marchand(5'7") in the top 6 and an old man in nets winning the Conn Smythe, that blows about 4 myths out of the wter right there.

For guy that apparently can do very little, 34 points 22+ min of ice time and +6 is pretty darn good. As for the playoffs, he had better numbers than Wisniewski which some people want us to throw 25 mil at.

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06-22-2011, 06:58 PM
  #374
tinyzombies
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
The Bruins won a cup with Ference and Boychuk getting top 4 minutes and smurfs like Recchi(5'8") and Marchand(5'7") in the top 6 and an old man in nets winning the Conn Smythe, that blows about 4 myths out of the wter right there.

For guy that apparently can do very little, 34 points 22+ min of ice time and +6 is pretty darn good. As for the playoffs, he had better numbers than Wisniewski which some people want us to throw 25 mil at.
He's also shown a lot of character in the playoffs when his game slipped, he came back strong.

How about this???

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
Mike Cammalleri ($6.000m) / Tomas Plekanec ($5.000m) / Andrei Kostitsyn ($3.250m)
Max Pacioretty ($1.625m) / Scott Gomez ($7.357m) / Brian Gionta ($5.000m)
Travis Moen ($1.500m) / Jason Arnott ($4.500m) / Lars Eller ($1.270m)
Benoit Pouliot ($1.350m) / David Desharnais ($0.850m) / Mathieu Darche ($0.700m)
Ryan White ($0.850m)

DEFENSEMEN
Andrei Markov ($5.250m) / James Wisniewski ($4.500m)
Roman Hamrlik ($4.000m) / P.K. Subban ($0.875m)
Hal Gill ($2.250m) / Josh Gorges ($1.500m)
Yannick Weber ($0.875m)

GOALTENDERS
Carey Price ($2.750m) / Mathieu Garon ($1.000m)

BUYOUTS: Georges Laraque ($0.500m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $62,752,976; BONUSES: $400,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $1,247,024


Last edited by tinyzombies: 06-22-2011 at 07:11 PM.
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06-22-2011, 07:00 PM
  #375
Marchy79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melvin Udall View Post
Here (as I understand it) is Gauthier's ACTUAL track record as NHL GM.

1993 Hired by Anaheim as Assistant GM

No Playoffs in ’93
No Playoffs in ’94
No Playoffs in ’95 (even though PG is let go by mid-season as management decides they want to go in a different direction.)

1995 With’n a few weeks Pierre finds himself as GM of the Ottawa senators:

No Playoffs in ’95
No Playoffs in ’96
Lose 1st round in 1997

Mid 97-98 season PG annonuces “HIS” decision to step down as GM in Ottawa in order to be able to be with his family more often, and that he’s thinking about getting out of Hockey all together!

17 DAYS LATER… He is re-hired by the Anaheim Ducks (where oddly enough, since his departure 2 seasons ago, Anaheim went to the 2nd round and 1st round consecutively!)

4 months after his return to Anaheim,
No Playoffs ’98
1 round ’99
No Playoffs ’00
No Playoffs ’01
No Playoffs ’02

2003 After a disasterous run in Anaheim PG gets fired, and hired by Bob Gainey as a Pro Scout for the Montreal Canadiens!

2006 after Pierre had made some huge scouting mistakes the likes of Janni Ninnema (remember he’s the guy we got for Mike Ribeiro,!) Bob Gainey decides to promote him to Assistant GM!

2009 Bob Gainey steps down as GM, and the Molson’s decide to annoint Pierre Gauthier as the Habs General Manager.


I can't find any SIGNIFICANT success in Gauthier's track record - if this info is incorrect, I (will) stand corrected and appreciate anyone who could correct me!




He may not have EXPERIENCED the success... But he was the guy at the helm that BUILT the Senators, & the Ducks (the championship team). They made the finals the next year, and most of the same puzzle remained when they went for, and won the cup in '07.


Last edited by Marchy79: 06-22-2011 at 07:07 PM. Reason: fixing the year anaheim won from '05 to '07
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