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Howard Eskin of 610 WIP: Front Office Open to Trading Richards or Carter

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Old
06-23-2011, 11:39 AM
  #701
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Carter should not be traded for the sake of being traded. Keeping him here is by no means a bad thing.

Nor is Carter essential to this team, and trading him for a significant package wouldn't be a bad thing, either.

In any case, the reality is that with his contract, he is not going anywhere.


Can we please cease this discussion now?

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06-23-2011, 12:05 PM
  #702
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Can we please cease this discussion now?

Good luck with that request! This will be an ongoing discussion/debate/argument for, I'd say, the next 11 years!!

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06-23-2011, 12:08 PM
  #703
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Originally Posted by infidelappel View Post
Carter should not be traded for the sake of being traded. Keeping him here is by no means a bad thing.

Nor is Carter essential to this team, and trading him for a significant package wouldn't be a bad thing, either.

In any case, the reality is that with his contract, he is not going anywhere.


Can we please cease this discussion now?
If cap space is needed and the return for him is better than it would be for Carle/Versteeg or others, he'll go. Snider has pretty much offered a blank cheque to Bryz and if he signs here and we're in even worse cap trouble, pieces have to be moved.

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06-23-2011, 12:13 PM
  #704
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If cap space is needed and the return for him is better than it would be for Carle/Versteeg or others, he'll go. Snider has pretty much offered a blank cheque to Bryz and if he signs here and we're in even worse cap trouble, pieces have to be moved.
Maybe. There are lesser pieces you could move, but if we're in that case we're not getting fair value for anything so you probably ship out Carle/Derpsteeg.

I don't think we need to move Carter under really any circumstances. I also don't think we'd need to keep him if we could get a good trade.

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06-23-2011, 12:16 PM
  #705
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Good luck with that request! This will be an ongoing discussion/debate/argument for, I'd say, the next 11 years!!
Yeah, even if he's traded people will complain when he scores 35-40 goals for another team, and when he does have a good playoffs people will complain then.

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06-23-2011, 12:17 PM
  #706
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Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
If cap space is needed and the return for him is better than it would be for Carle/Versteeg or others, he'll go. Snider has pretty much offered a blank cheque to Bryz and if he signs here and we're in even worse cap trouble, pieces have to be moved.
I disagree.

First and foremost, the Bryzgalov contract would dictate whether Carter goes, imo. If it's 7 million, we have some serious salary to shed and I think it slightly increases the chances that Carter would go.

The return for Carter should be better than Carle/Versteeg because he is a better player. If your main objective in making a trade is to get cap space (which it is in our case), the first question you should ask is, out of the players who make significant money, "who is expendable?" not "who has value?".

A secondary goal should be what the return is, the primary goal should be gaining cap space. So then you weigh the expendability of a player versus the return he would get. For me, Carter is hardly in that equation. Carle, Hartnell, and Versteeg are first. Carle I believe is very expendable and would actually have good value. Some people differ however...

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06-23-2011, 12:19 PM
  #707
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Originally Posted by infidelappel View Post
Maybe. There are lesser pieces you could move, but if we're in that case we're not getting fair value for anything so you probably ship out Carle/Derpsteeg.

I don't think we need to move Carter under really any circumstances. I also don't think we'd need to keep him if we could get a good trade.
Lol.....Nice

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06-23-2011, 12:23 PM
  #708
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if the Bryzgalov deal is a 7 million cap hit(and i really doubt it is) we will not be able to afford to take much salary back. if any. draft picks and or prospects.

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06-23-2011, 12:28 PM
  #709
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Trading your best goal scorer in his mid 20s for cap space is a brilliant idea. Not to mention he is one of the best even strength goal scorers in the league.

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06-23-2011, 12:46 PM
  #710
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On a lot of teams in this league, Powe can play the 3rd line spot. Especially a more defensive/energy line format.
Powe can play a 3rd line spot if needed, but as of now he is a guy you'd rather have on a 4th line because he brings 0 offense. Even on a defensive 3rd line you need at least marginal offense. If he can continue to increase his point totals and become a ~25 point player than he'd be a more competent 3rd liner. However, the most professional points he's ever scored is 23 in 76 games for the Phantoms.

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Jokinen is coming off a 65 and 52 point season. If not for injury, he would have back to back 20+ goal seasons including a 30 goal season. He is getting a raise.
At the time Jokinen got his contract he was coming off a 55 point year, a 48 point year, and a year he was on pace for 44. He only got $1.7M because he was injured that last year. If not he probably would have gotten somewhere closer to the $2.8m. A 45 point forward who isn't in the mold of Hartnell/Malone, is a very solid 3rd liner. He just developed into more in Carolina.

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Glencross' new cap hit is 2.5M.

Larose made 1.7M on his last contract.

Miettinen had a 2.3M cap hit and was playing 18 a night the last few years.

These are all players that are better than Powe, but they are also guys that can play on 2nd lines if need be in a few cases, and are paid accordingly.
This doesn't really dispute anything I said. They're 3rd line players, with possibly the exception of Jokinen, that get paid around the $1.8-2.8m range. They can move up to the second line, but they're still ideally third line players.

Yes, they are better than Powe, that's why they're 3rd line players that can play on the 2nd if needed, and not 4th line players that can play on the third if needed.

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06-23-2011, 12:52 PM
  #711
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Mike, the repeated use of the bold and insinuating that there is a real difference between it and the playoffs is, simply put, dumb. It is willful ignorance of observed reality. You are being subjective and ignoring objective facts to make your point.

You are Cartsiephan.

A good 3rd/4th line role player is Darrol Powe. That is not the 15 goal type of guy that you're talking about.
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Powe can play a 3rd line spot if needed, but as of now he is a guy you'd rather have on a 4th line because he brings 0 offense. Yes, they are better than Powe, that's why they're 3rd line players that can play on the 2nd if needed, and not 4th line players that can play on the third if needed.
So uhhhh, what are you arguing about?

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06-23-2011, 01:05 PM
  #712
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I'm a Leafs fan, and I'd be pissed if you guys traded Richards. The Flyers couldn't find a better captain for the team. I hope you guys keep him.

Also, the thought of the Flyers finally getting a decent goalie is scary. I thought you guys didn't like goalies? I'm worried about the pressure that would be put on Bryzgalov. IMO, the only franchise ahead of the Flyers in the "goalie graveyard" category is the Vancouver Canucks. With a cap hit rumoured to be near $7 million, and the transition from the desert in Phoenix to the mayhem in Philadelphia, it'll be interesting to see how Ilya handles it.

Whatever happens, I look forward to see what Paul Holmgren does between now and October.

Good luck Flyers.

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06-23-2011, 01:07 PM
  #713
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I'm a Leafs fan, and I'd be pissed if you guys traded Richards. The Flyers couldn't find a better captain for the team. I hope you guys keep him.

Also, the thought of the Flyers finally getting a decent goalie is scary. I thought you guys didn't like goalies? I'm worried about the pressure that would be put on Bryzgalov. IMO, the only franchise ahead of the Flyers in the "goalie graveyard" category is the Vancouver Canucks. With a cap hit rumoured to be near $7 million, and the transition from the desert in Phoenix to the mayhem in Philadelphia, it'll be interesting to see how Ilya handles it.

Whatever happens, I look forward to see what Paul Holmgren does between now and October.

Good luck Flyers.
Montreal is the biggest goalie killer in the league, by far.

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06-23-2011, 01:09 PM
  #714
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Montreal is the biggest goalie killer in the league, by far.
Yeah, good luck not being Patrick Roy there.

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06-23-2011, 01:13 PM
  #715
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So uhhhh, what are you arguing about?
No really sure considering his rebuttal was basically what I said. But I guess it would be that mikedifr was referencing "Glencross like" players as a 3rd liner, and Jester was referencing Powe. Just when I think of a good 3rd line role player I think Glencross, not Powe.

Regardless it doesn't really require anymore discussion lol.

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06-23-2011, 01:15 PM
  #716
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I'm a Leafs fan, and I'd be pissed if you guys traded Richards. The Flyers couldn't find a better captain for the team. I hope you guys keep him.
You just keep that positive talk about Richards to yourself. We'll have none of that nonsense around here, sir.




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06-23-2011, 01:40 PM
  #717
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No really sure considering his rebuttal was basically what I said. But I guess it would be that mikedifr was referencing "Glencross like" players as a 3rd liner, and Jester was referencing Powe. Just when I think of a good 3rd line role player I think Glencross, not Powe.

Regardless it doesn't really require anymore discussion lol.
I was also talking about 1M guys.

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06-23-2011, 02:05 PM
  #718
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I was also talking about 1M guys.
Oh, I thought you were talking about a good 3rd line player. When I think true, solid 3rd liners I don't think of guys like that. I consider them to be 4th liners.

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06-23-2011, 02:08 PM
  #719
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Oh, I thought you were talking about a good 3rd line player. When I think true, solid 3rd liners I don't think of guys like that. I consider them to be 4th liners.
Yeah, but as noted you are essentially setting the bar above third line threshold in the NHL. There are a lot of Powes playing on third lines in this league.

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06-23-2011, 02:23 PM
  #720
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Carter has been told he's been traded to CLB. #dreger

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06-23-2011, 02:24 PM
  #721
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Yeah, but as noted you are essentially setting the bar above third line threshold in the NHL. There are a lot of Powes playing on third lines in this league.
The Powe's around the league should be on the 4th line, that's why they are whenever they're on a reasonably deep team. I don't think saying "where would you be on a good team?" is setting the bar too high. A true, solid 3rd line player is more that what Darrol Powe is.

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06-23-2011, 02:26 PM
  #722
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Carter has been told he's been traded to CLB. #dreger
Holy ****...Darroll Powe no longer matters...

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06-23-2011, 02:34 PM
  #723
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Carter has been told he's been traded to CLB. #dreger





Debate over or time to expand the debate and discuss empirically why Carter was traded (if this is fact)? Was it because Holmgren is Cartsiephan and a hater? I suspect it will be mainly that he is dumb.

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06-23-2011, 02:38 PM
  #724
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Eskin was right.

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06-23-2011, 02:42 PM
  #725
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Eskin was right.
Well that is probably the biggest insult from this....

So why was Carter traded? I would like to hear from the Carter contingency?

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