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Poll: Did we get better after the moves today?

View Poll Results: Did the flyers get better after moving carter/richards and signing bryzgalov
Yes 71 31.00%
No 158 69.00%
Voters: 229. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
06-23-2011, 08:25 PM
  #26
kammy
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Originally Posted by decadentia View Post
That cap room doesn't win you Stanley Cups. Ask the Rangers.
o snap i forgot about re-signing o'donnell ....

also, capgeek is counting lappy and brayden schenn's salaries (he makes 3.11 mill !! WOW)

also, Its safe to assume Leights is guna be waived

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06-23-2011, 08:29 PM
  #27
funghoul
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i don't think he's done and i think he'll use schenn to make another move.

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Old
06-23-2011, 08:29 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by CHGoalie72 View Post
Was Richards a cancer?

I really don't understand that trade.
Was Richards a cancer? You bet he was. His childish behavior towards his local media was an embarrassment. How can you justify your team captain having a feud with the media IN YOUR TOWN? Simply ridiculous.

Furthermore, the constant pictures and stories of his partying and late night life is unnerving. I understand he is young, but he was also the captain of a team built to contend. No way is that acceptable.

You better believe a majority of that locker room looked at Pronger as the true captain. He should be given the 'C', but who knows how he's going to hold up from here on out after his latest major back surgery.

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06-23-2011, 08:33 PM
  #29
Damaged Goods
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When you consider that they gained Simmonds, Schenn, Voracek and Bryzgalov plus the ability to retain Leino or a similar player, yes, they did get better.

But my gripe is that they could have acquired Bryzgalov while retaining Carter and Richards and just lost Leino, Versteeg OR Carle instead. That would have been a much bigger immediate step forward, I think.

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Old
06-23-2011, 08:33 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by funghoul View Post
i don't think he's done and i think he'll use schenn to make another move.
No way. Schenn was the corner stone of the Richards deal. Unless they are getting a legit first liner for him, I don't think that happens. Not that Schenn is a first liner, but the dude is gonna be good.

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Old
06-23-2011, 08:34 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Gui101do View Post
Was Richards a cancer? You bet he was. His childish behavior towards his local media was an embarrassment. How can you justify your team captain having a feud with the media IN YOUR TOWN? Simply ridiculous.

Furthermore, the constant pictures and stories of his partying and late night life. I understand he is young, but he was also the captain of a team built to contend. No way is that acceptable.

You better believe a majority of that locker room looked at Pronger as the true captain. He should be given the 'C', but who knows how he's going to hold up from here on out after his latest major back surgery.




So you cheer for the Philly media?

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Old
06-23-2011, 08:36 PM
  #32
Damaged Goods
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gui101do View Post
Was Richards a cancer? You bet he was. His childish behavior towards his local media was an embarrassment. How can you justify your team captain having a feud with the media IN YOUR TOWN? Simply ridiculous.

Furthermore, the constant pictures and stories of his partying and late night life is unnerving. I understand he is young, but he was also the captain of a team built to contend. No way is that acceptable.

You better believe a majority of that locker room looked at Pronger as the true captain. He should be given the 'C', but who knows how he's going to hold up from here on out after his latest major back surgery.
Not getting along with a couple of dweebish reporters makes you a team cancer? That is ridiculous. Just because it may have bothered you as a fan, that does not mean it had any bearing on the team. I certainly hope that the team captain wasn't traded to accommodate the likes of Sam Carchidi and Tim Panaccio!

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06-23-2011, 08:37 PM
  #33
decadentia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gui101do View Post
Was Richards a cancer? You bet he was. His childish behavior towards his local media was an embarrassment. How can you justify your team captain having a feud with the media IN YOUR TOWN? Simply ridiculous.

Furthermore, the constant pictures and stories of his partying and late night life is unnerving. I understand he is young, but he was also the captain of a team built to contend. No way is that acceptable.

You better believe a majority of that locker room looked at Pronger as the true captain. He should be given the 'C', but who knows how he's going to hold up from here on out after his latest major back surgery.
Go away. If anything it seems like the true error was bringing in Pronger.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damaged Goods View Post
When you consider that they gained Simmonds, Schenn, Voracek and Bryzgalov plus the ability to retain Leino or a similar player, yes, they did get better.

But my gripe is that they could have acquired Bryzgalov while retaining Carter and Richards and just lost Leino, Versteeg OR Carle instead. That would have been a much bigger immediate step forward, I think.
We're not better, we're not contenders. Thus we're not better, we're worse.

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Old
06-23-2011, 08:40 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by kammy View Post
o snap i forgot about re-signing o'donnell ....

also, capgeek is counting lappy and brayden schenn's salaries (he makes 3.11 mill !! WOW)

also, Its safe to assume Leights is guna be waived
Doesn't matter. ALL contracts count on your summer cap.

It hamstrings our ability to take on more salary, so any big-money players are out.

We could spend over by what, 5%? Which gives us like another $3 million I think, but still...Stamkos or Parise or something awesome (re: someone better than either Richards or Carter) are not gonna fit.

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Old
06-23-2011, 08:46 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by infidelappel View Post
What makes you feel that way?

We need all our cap space to sign the big RFAs we have. You sign Simmonds and Voracek, and probably Leino, and that 7.6 mill we have is gone. The team we have right now is probably the team we're getting unless we package something to move up in the draft.
Its actually 10.3 mil since Leighton will be in the minors and Lappy will be on IR. Also, there will need to be more moves as we are at the 50 contract limit. Might just be AHL moves, but I guarantee we are not yet done.

Quote:
Originally Posted by infidelappel View Post
Doesn't matter. ALL contracts count on your summer cap.

It hamstrings our ability to take on more salary, so any big-money players are out.

We could spend over by what, 5%? Which gives us like another $3 million I think, but still...Stamkos or Parise or something awesome (re: someone better than either Richards or Carter) are not gonna fit.
10%. Also, I believe that not all of the 3.11 mil of Schenns cap hit counts since most of that are rookie bonuses he could hit, not salary. The summer cap does not matter a lot to us.

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Old
06-23-2011, 08:47 PM
  #36
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Lets see how the rest of the off season plays out but right now we are not a better team

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06-23-2011, 08:52 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by MojoJojo View Post
Its actually 10.3 mil since Leighton will be in the minors and Lappy will be on IR. Also, there will need to be more moves as we are at the 50 contract limit. Might just be AHL moves, but I guarantee we are not yet done.


10%. Also, I believe that not all of the 3.11 mil of Schenns cap hit counts since most of that are rookie bonuses he could hit, not salary. The summer cap does not matter a lot to us.
Their contracts both count against the cap right now, which is when we need cap space to sign players, or acquire anyone with big dollars.

I'm telling you, unless some of the players we already have signed are on the way out the door, he's not bringing anyone significant on.

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Old
06-23-2011, 08:53 PM
  #38
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Can't believe people cry about the Richards/Carter drinking pictures...the guys in the 70s had their own bar that they wore a patch for when it burnt down. Do we crucify them for that?

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Old
06-23-2011, 09:00 PM
  #39
Damaged Goods
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Quote:
Originally Posted by decadentia View Post
We're not better, we're not contenders. Thus we're not better, we're worse.
Supposing they are not drafting anyone who makes the roster, this should be the equation for next year.

Carter
Richards
~$1.75M

vs

Bryzgalov
Voracek
Simmonds
Schenn

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06-23-2011, 09:02 PM
  #40
MojoJojo
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Originally Posted by infidelappel View Post
Their contracts both count against the cap right now, which is when we need cap space to sign players, or acquire anyone with big dollars.

I'm telling you, unless some of the players we already have signed are on the way out the door, he's not bringing anyone significant on.
I agree we will not be making any huge moves, like some of the tards on the main board suggesting we are going after Brad Richards think, but we can afford a 3+ mil UFA winger like Leino or Upshall. I also fully believe that Holmgren is not done. Would not be surprised at all to see Carle, Versteeg, Hartnell, or Bobrovsky traded (though Bob would be a bad idea).

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06-23-2011, 09:43 PM
  #41
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I think we stayed right around the same. In the future we will be even better.

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06-23-2011, 10:10 PM
  #42
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Right now? Hell ****ing no

In the future? It depends. Not a sure "YES" that's for sure.

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06-23-2011, 10:43 PM
  #43
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Not next year, but likely the year after I think. These guys got traded because some serious problems were going on in the room. This wasn't about cap space. They just weren't working. And they are a tandem, you can't trade one out of that room, the other one isn't going to get it all of a sudden, they'll continue to be a problem. We weren't going to win it all with a troubled room.

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Old
06-24-2011, 12:34 AM
  #44
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Canuck fan come in peace.

So is there a story behind this? It's pretty unusual for a team of this stature and potential to take a meat cleaver to its offensive core. It seems a lot more space was freed up than can be explained by the "get a real goalie" mem. Had these guys worn out their welcome with management, or what? Are there aftershocks from getting swept out of the playoffs?

Anything?

Or is this just one of those high-risk (potentially) high reward GMing moves that happens from time to time?

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06-24-2011, 12:51 AM
  #45
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These moves put a TON of pressure on Bryzgalov. If he's the goalie he was for the Coyotes in the playoffs two years ago, the flyers will have a shot next year. If he is the goalie he was this year in the playoffs, forget it.

Flyers still have the same D, and if Bryzgalov plays like he did two years ago , they certainly can still compete for the cup. Look at the Bruins, looking at that roster did anyone think they really had a shot at the cup? Realistically? I know they've posted some great regular season records over the years, but they never scared anyone in the playoffs. Anyways , there's no reason the Flyers can't compete for it all if Bryzgalov steps up. But like I said, theres a ton of pressure on him now to do so. He is no doubt tied in with these trades...if he fails, they will blame him for losing Richards / Carter. If he succeeds, people will admit the trades were needed.

This looks bad on paper right now, and it should...but I honestly think the Flyers will be fine. Its all about Illya now. Flyers fans wanted a goalie..they got one. Heavy price to pay...now it has to pay off.

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06-24-2011, 01:04 AM
  #46
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Depends what the Flyers do next in the off-season. If they can get someone like Brad Richards then they improved.

Losing Carter doesn't really hurt in the playoffs because he disappears there anyways. M.Richards on the hand will be missed.

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06-24-2011, 01:26 AM
  #47
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Can't wait for someone to bump this thread at random points during the season.

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Old
06-24-2011, 02:12 AM
  #48
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Short term, probably not. Long term, hell yes.

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Old
06-24-2011, 04:01 AM
  #49
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You aren't better today, but you're better in three years. I always saw the previous situation in Philly as unsustainable; no goalie and two guys on 10 year deals.


You signed Bryz, Holmgren finally got the memo there.

Schenn is a very safe player with a very Richardsesque skillset. His high-end upside is around what Richards was; two-way 70 point C with grit and leadership. Worst case I see him as a 40-point 3rd-line C.

Voracek...meh. Ironically he'd have looked really good passing to the guy you traded him for. I've never been on the Voracek bandwagon, he's a fine playmaker but there have been questions about his fitness. He's an RFA with 50-points on the books so he should get in the 3-3.5 range.

Simmonds is the archetypal third-line guy who provides energy and enough offense that he can jump up to the second if he has to. Good pickup, also an RFA, 2-2.5.

#8 overall. Strome? Hamilton? Murphy? Huberdeau? Zibanejad? It's never bad to add a top-ten pick to the stable.

2010 2nd from LA (so likely in the 45-55 overall range) and 68th overall this year. Not great picks, but anything in the top-100 is a plus.

Cap space...after signing Simmonds and Voracek, and if Versteeg is truly gone (why does he keep getting traded!?), you should have about 4 million dollars of space...which isn't ideal, but at least it gives you guys some wiggle room.

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Old
06-24-2011, 04:47 AM
  #50
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^ great round-up.

I just want to put something else out there too. We are not replacing two 80 point centres. We are replacing two 60 point centres.

Schenn is the best prospect outside of the NHL. He is projected to be Mike Richards. Simmonds is a fantastic 3rd liner who can step up.

Carter was a guy that just couldn't put it all together when it mattered. If you believe it or not, Injuries in 4 straight years when it matters? It's not like we have lost anything in the post-season.

Add in the fact that we should get Giroux and JVR having a little more ice-time. Thats going to be something to look forward too. While we might have lost a selke level defensive forward, we gained size in simmonds and Vora.

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