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Carter/Richards traded (Pt. 2); Quotes: Pronger (#100); Snider (#135); Carter (#954)

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06-24-2011, 09:34 AM
  #1
Hollywood Couturier
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Carter/Richards traded (Pt. 2); Quotes: Pronger (#100); Snider (#135); Carter (#954)


Quote:
The Philadelphia Flyers announced today that they have acquired center Brayden Schenn, right wing Wayne Simmonds and a 2nd round pick in the 2012 NHL Entry Draft from the Los Angeles Kings in exchange for center Michael Richards, according to general manager Paul Holmgren.
Quote:
The Philadelphia Flyers announced today that they have acquired right wing Jakub Voracek from the Columbus Blue Jackets, along with a first-round (8th overall) and third-round (68th overall) selection in this week’s 2011 NHL Entry Draft, in exchange for C Jeff Carter, according to general manager Paul Holmgren.
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=931341&page=41

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06-24-2011, 09:40 AM
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I can't tell if my feeling so drained is because I'm sick or because of the whirlwind/emotions of this all....or both.

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06-24-2011, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Brian822 View Post
Richards is a good hockey player. There's no doubt about that. People on here talk about his leadership like he's messier or yzerman. There have been rumors for years about their off ice activities and major problems in the locker room.
What activities? (I'm being serious).

This talk about drinking seems so overblown. We've all seen the pictures of Malkin. Guess what? Conn Smythe. How about the Blackhawks all last year? Oh right, Stanley Cup champs. It happens all throughout sports and it's been going on for decades, longer than any of us have been alive. Sounds more to me like an excuse for falling short. It's a lot easier--and sexier--to blame it on a bunch of 20some year-olds who like to drink instead of looking at the vacancy that is our goaltending (until now).

In his tenure here, Holmgren has never built an all-around Stanley Cup caliber team. He has put out some good teams, yes, and I am not absolving Richards/Carter/and co of all the blame at all. However, to me, this looks like them falling on the sword for a few people who are higher up. They were worn down last year, Richards especially. Did anyone actually expect this team to compete for the Cup with the ****show that was their goaltending situation and the deep run the year before?

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06-24-2011, 09:45 AM
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I don't know if I'm in denial, or what, but the more I read about Voracek, Schenn, and Simmonds, the more I like this trade. I HATE that Richards is gone, but these three guys plus getting rid of locker room issues (if they existed) and getting a goalie and some draft picks...its looking like a solid move. Time will tell, obviously, but I'm more optimistic now than I was yesterday.

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06-24-2011, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by chimrichalds18 View Post
What activities? (I'm being serious).

This talk about drinking seems so overblown. We've all seen the pictures of Malkin. Guess what? Conn Smythe. How about the Blackhawks all last year? Oh right, Stanley Cup champs. It happens all throughout sports and it's been going on for decades, longer than any of us have been alive. Sounds more to me like an excuse for falling short. It's a lot easier--and sexier--to blame it on a bunch of 20some year-olds who like to drink instead of looking at the vacancy that is our goaltending (until now).

In his tenure here, Holmgren has never built an all-around Stanley Cup caliber team. He has put out some good teams, yes, and I am not absolving Richards/Carter/and co of all the blame at all. However, to me, this looks like them falling on the sword for a few people who are higher up. They were worn down last year, Richards especially. Did anyone actually expect this team to compete for the Cup with the ****show that was their goaltending situation and the deep run the year before?
No one is blaming Richards for the Flyers not winning the Cup. That's ridiculous. I could care less if Richards went out and get **** faced ever night as long as it didn't effect his play. The 70's teams were notorious for boozing it up but they brought it every night. Do you think it's a coincidence that the "OCC" of Richards, Carter, Lupul and Upshall are no longer with this team? Holmgren addressed this issue in the media before Lupul was traded. The organization was clearly not happy having these two players as the face of the franchise and felt they could not lead them to a Cup.

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06-24-2011, 09:49 AM
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I don't get why some people on here/main bard think we are a glorified lottery team now who are rebuilding for the next 2 years.

Don't sleep on the Flyers, folks. We are still gonna have a ticket to the dance. We will still have a shot and will have a greater shot as each year passes.

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06-24-2011, 09:53 AM
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If the flyers get another established player like a Richards and move up to draft a landeskog I will like the move even more. Holmgren said between now and training camp things might still change so they have a bigger plan. This is the first stage. They like Shenn but he might move.

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06-24-2011, 09:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flipadelphia View Post
I don't get why some people on here/main bard think we are a glorified lottery team now who are rebuilding for the next 2 years.

Don't sleep on the Flyers, folks. We are still gonna have a ticket to the dance. We will still have a shot and will have a greater shot as each year passes.
Without a significant acquisition, we are not a contender next year. In 2-3 years we are going to be trying to fix the D, which is when these guys are actually going to be ready for the roles Carter and Richards filled now.

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06-24-2011, 09:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flipadelphia View Post
I don't get why some people on here/main bard think we are a glorified lottery team now who are rebuilding for the next 2 years.

Don't sleep on the Flyers, folks. We are still gonna have a ticket to the dance. We will still have a shot and will have a greater shot as each year passes.
We'll be a playoff team for sure, but a legit contender? Probably not. It remains to be seen what other moves are made though.

We have a Cup Caliber defense and goalie (we think) and that will get us to the playoffs. Our forward depth is young and completely unproven, we also have no defensive center, and a lack of two-way forwards. Our biggest strength has become our apparent weakness, and I don't see us as having a shot at the cup this year unless all these kids put it together this year.

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06-24-2011, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Without a significant acquisition, we are not a contender next year. In 2-3 years we are going to be trying to fix the D, which is when these guys are actually going to be ready for the roles Carter and Richards filled now.
This is my concern. The forwards should be ready to explode in 2ish years. The D will be ready to retire in 2ish years.

However, I'm not yet ready to say "without a significant acquisition, we are not a contender next year". The fact of the matter is, our offense is oozing with potential. If we get lucky, and get contributions sooner rather than later, we may be ok.

It's just risky, and the entire thing just seems....weird.

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06-24-2011, 10:05 AM
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I think the moves bring the flyers "class" level down a notch, 2 young top players took long term lower hit contracts for the good a team and get traded before there NTC clauses kick in. I can see why they were made, and they both might be good moves, but just not a good thing to do to players.

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06-24-2011, 10:07 AM
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The future of the defense is a major concern.

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06-24-2011, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DUHockey9 View Post
This is my concern. The forwards should be ready to explode in 2ish years. The D will be ready to retire in 2ish years.

However, I'm not yet ready to say "without a significant acquisition, we are not a contender next year". The fact of the matter is, our offense is oozing with potential. If we get lucky, and get contributions sooner rather than later, we may be ok.

It's just risky, and the entire thing just seems....weird.
Our forwards are terrible defensively as a group. Terrible. You are not a contender when your forwards are that much of a weakness on that side of the puck.

We may put up some points if JVR can be the player he showed in the playoffs, but he has struggled to show that type of consistency.

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06-24-2011, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Protest View Post
We have a Cup Caliber defense and goalie (we think) and that will get us to the playoffs. Our forward depth is young and completely unproven, we also have no defensive center, and a lack of two-way forwards.
So basically we're the Montreal Canadiens.

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06-24-2011, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kicksave27 View Post
I think the moves bring the flyers "class" level down a notch, 2 young top players took long term lower hit contracts for the good a team and get traded before there NTC clauses kick in. I can see why they were made, and they both might be good moves, but just not a good thing to do to players.
Oh, this is completely classless. Particularly the Carter move.

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06-24-2011, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Our forwards are terrible defensively as a group. Terrible. You are not a contender when your forwards are that much of a weakness on that side of the puck.

We may put up some points if JVR can be the player he showed in the playoffs, but he has struggled to show that type of consistency.
I agree with you. I'm just saying, if everyone played to their ceilings, we'd be a force. Extremely unlikely though.

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06-24-2011, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by DUHockey9 View Post
I can't tell if my feeling so drained is because I'm sick or because of the whirlwind/emotions of this all....or both.
For me, it's definitely both. I feel ****ing terrible reading any of this anymore. I don't know why I'm bothering.

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06-24-2011, 10:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DUHockey9 View Post
This is my concern. The forwards should be ready to explode in 2ish years. The D will be ready to retire in 2ish years.

However, I'm not yet ready to say "without a significant acquisition, we are not a contender next year". The fact of the matter is, our offense is oozing with potential. If we get lucky, and get contributions sooner rather than later, we may be ok.

It's just risky, and the entire thing just seems....weird.
I agree..... But, Im still really irritated with the moves this team has made over the last 2 years.

After SCF the team needed and upgrade in net and a D-man to anchor the 3rd pairing. So, Holmgren goes crazy on D and neglects the GT position.

After this past year the team needed a GT and could have gained cap space to do so by trading away players that could be replaced (Carle/Derpsteeg). So, Holmgren trades Carter and Richards and signs a goalie to a decade long deal.

The last two off seasons feel like total overreactions.

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06-24-2011, 10:12 AM
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I haven't read all of your posts, so forgive me if this was already linked.

http://video.bluejackets.nhl.com/vid...=701&id=114011

It is an interview with Jake concerning his summer plans, etc. Not sure if the video will remain since he's been traded.

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06-24-2011, 10:12 AM
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I agree with you. I'm just saying, if everyone played to their ceilings, we'd be a force. Extremely unlikely though.
Well that's just it. Even at their ceilings, we don't have a line I want on the ice against a Crosby.

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06-24-2011, 10:13 AM
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I am not saying we are gonna be the clear cut contenders like PIT, TB, WSH, or BOS.

I do, however, believe we will be a #5 or #6 seed. We will have a chance to make some noise is all I am saying. We are not a rebuilding team. Yes we have to wait for Schenn and whoever the #8 turns our to be to develop, but we have the goods going forward. JVR, Giroux, and Voracek are primed to do some things. They are no longer just nice pieces on the third or second line. We mortgaged everything on JVR and Giroux. If they continue onward and progress like they should, we will be in pretty good shape.

All I am saying is the world is not over...yet.

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06-24-2011, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Protest View Post
We'll be a playoff team for sure, but a legit contender? Probably not. It remains to be seen what other moves are made though.

We have a Cup Caliber defense and goalie (we think) and that will get us to the playoffs. Our forward depth is young and completely unproven, we also have no defensive center, and a lack of two-way forwards. Our biggest strength has become our apparent weakness, and I don't see us as having a shot at the cup this year unless all these kids put it together this year.
Suddenly briere and giroux and hartnell and leino (assuming he is re-signed) are unproven? JVR proved a little something in the playoffs too. I guess Richards and Carter really were the only two good forwards we had. Giroux leading the team in points means nothing. Briere being an established all-star is worthless. JVR and Leino's playoff performances are out the window. I'm not saying the team is better w/o Richards and Carter, but they are far from unproven. The new guys are unproven for sure, but that doesn't mean the others all of the sudden are as well.

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06-24-2011, 10:16 AM
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So that's it then, in 2 years we won't have a defense?

You guys are funny. You don't think Homer will take care of it when the time comes?? Timonen, Pronger, Coburn, Carle, Mezsaros were all added through FA or trades. I can't believe you're already panicking about not having a defense in two years. Especially you Jester. You should know better, I'm surprised you're whining as much as you are.

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06-24-2011, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flipadelphia View Post
I am not saying we are gonna be the clear cut contenders like PIT, TB, WSH, or BOS.

I do, however, believe we will be a #5 or #6 seed. We will have a chance to make some noise is all I am saying. We are not a rebuilding team. Yes we have to wait for Schenn and whoever the #8 turns our to be to develop, but we have the goods going forward. JVR, Giroux, and Voracek are primed to do some things. They are no longer just nice pieces on the third or second line. We mortgaged everything on JVR and Giroux. If they continue onward and progress like they should, we will be in pretty good shape.

All I am saying is the world is not over...yet.
You are ignoring the fundamental problem, though. Our D was built to win yesterday, and our forwards are built to win in a couple of years.

This team lacks a center as of now that can play a lick of D. Giroux tries, but he isn't great at it. Briere is atrocious. Schenn will be a rookie.

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06-24-2011, 10:18 AM
  #25
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Well that's just it. Even at their ceilings, we don't have a line I want on the ice against a Crosby.
You might not want it, but Giroux's line will be playing against Crosby's. Homer and Co think Giroux's defensive play is as good as Richards was.

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