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Carter/Richards traded (Pt. 2); Quotes: Pronger (#100); Snider (#135); Carter (#954)

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06-24-2011, 09:21 AM
  #26
Jester
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Originally Posted by healthyscratch View Post
So that's it then, in 2 years we won't have a defense?

You guys are funny. You don't think Homer will take care of it when the time comes?? Timonen, Pronger, Coburn, Carle, Mezsaros were all added through FA or trades. I can't believe you're already panicking about not having a defense in two years. Especially you Jester. You should know better, I'm surprised you're whining as much as you are.
You think Homer will fix the D without screwing up elsewhere? Why on earth would you think that? In 2-3 years we will have an aged Pronger eating space as well.

We just went from a team with a legit chance at the Cup next year to a team with pretty much no chance at a Cup. Yeah, I am pissed off.

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06-24-2011, 09:22 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
You might not want it, but Giroux's line will be playing against Crosby's. Homer and Co think Giroux's defensive play is as good as Richards was.
I'm a defender of Giroux's defensive ability, but I can already see Crosby drive skating Giroux behind the net.

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06-24-2011, 09:22 AM
  #28
Jester
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
You might not want it, but Giroux's line will be playing against Crosby's. Homer and Co think Giroux's defensive play is as good as Richards was.
Yeah, I know PR spin when I see it.

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06-24-2011, 09:22 AM
  #29
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I still don't know what to think.
Richards was my favorite Flyer. Carter I can live without, but Cannon? Wow. This hasn't sunk in yet.

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Old
06-24-2011, 09:22 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Oh, this is completely classless. Particularly the Carter move.
It's not classless, it's business. Again, we don't know what was happening behind the scenes, or what truly led to the trades. No doubt Holmgren and Snider were acting in what they believe are the best interests of the franchise. It just so happens that their opinions of what is best for the franchise differs from what the armchair GM's at HF think is best.

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06-24-2011, 09:22 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
You are ignoring the fundamental problem, though. Our D was built to win yesterday, and our forwards are built to win in a couple of years.

This team lacks a center as of now that can play a lick of D. Giroux tries, but he isn't great at it. Briere is atrocious. Schenn will be a rookie.
I seem to be agreeing with you a lot lately. The lack of a real shut down line worries me. Our best bet is probably something like Simmonds-Schenn-Versteeg and that's not really going to scare anyone.

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Old
06-24-2011, 09:24 AM
  #32
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We replace Richards, Carter, and Boucher with Schenn, Voracek, Simmonds, Bryzgalov and this board has a total freaking meltdown.

In my honest opinion this team is most certainly a contender next season. Young forwards, middle aged to old defense, prime aged goalie. That's the perfect setup.

The only thing that can kill our season is Pronger being out.

In Jeff Carter, we lost 9 points in 18 playoff games the past two years as he struggles with foot issues. Richards will be hard to replace, but not impossible.

I would rather the Flyers let Leino walk and re-sign Gagne for $2.5 -$3.

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Daniel Briere ($6.500m) / Ville Leino ($2.800m)
James Van Riemsdyk ($1.654m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Jakub Voracek ($2.750m)
Kris Versteeg ($3.083m) / Brayden Schenn ($3.110m) / Wayne Simmonds ($2.000m)
Darroll Powe ($0.800m) / Blair Betts ($0.700m) / Andreas Nodl ($1.000m)
Jody Shelley ($1.100m)

DEFENSEMEN
Matt Carle ($3.437m) / Chris Pronger ($4.921m)
Braydon Coburn ($3.200m) / Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m)
Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m) / Erik Gustafsson ($0.900m)
Oskars Bartulis ($0.600m)

GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.666m) / Sergei Bobrovsky ($1.750m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $64,256,428; BONUSES: $3,815,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $43,572

This team is stacked top to bottom.

Losing Richards and Carter hurts, but our lineup is young, talented and will be very strong. With the emergence of JVR and Giroux and the combo of Giroux and Voracek while Schenn has a chance to earn his time by playing on the 3rd line, I am VERY excited by this lineup.

And I own an authentic Richards jersey. He is my favorite hockey player.

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Old
06-24-2011, 09:25 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
You think Homer will fix the D without screwing up elsewhere? Why on earth would you think that? In 2-3 years we will have an aged Pronger eating space as well.

We just went from a team with a legit chance at the Cup next year to a team with pretty much no chance at a Cup. Yeah, I am pissed off.
I don't believe this team had a legit chance at the Cup next year. Not with Leighton, Bob or Boucher in net. Turns out, neither did Holmgren.

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06-24-2011, 09:26 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by DenverBoone View Post
It's not classless, it's business. Again, we don't know what was happening behind the scenes, or what truly led to the trades. No doubt Holmgren and Snider were acting in what they believe are the best interests of the franchise. It just so happens that their opinions of what is best for the franchise differs from what the armchair GM's at HF think is best.
I like the belief that "it's business" as a justification for classless behavior. As if all business decisions are classy by definition.

You CAN make classless business decisions, ya know? Like signing a below market, decade-long contract with someone and then trading them before the deal goes into effect. Definition of classlessness.

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06-24-2011, 09:27 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $43,572
Does this number not scare the bejeebus out of you? It does me. Here's hoping no one gets the flu or minor injury and has to be off for a short period of time and an AHL'er has to be called up. I know, that rarely happens. Right?

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Old
06-24-2011, 09:27 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DUHockey9 View Post
I'm a defender of Giroux's defensive ability, but I can already see Crosby drive skating Giroux behind the net.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Yeah, I know PR spin when I see it.
Might be a PR spin, but that is what we are going to see.

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Old
06-24-2011, 09:27 AM
  #37
Jester
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Originally Posted by DenverBoone View Post
I don't believe this team had a legit chance at the Cup next year. Not with Leighton, Bob or Boucher in net. Turns out, neither did Holmgren.
We did not need to make these moves to sign Bryz. But keep trotting out that red herring BS if you want to.

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Old
06-24-2011, 09:28 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
You think Homer will fix the D without screwing up elsewhere? Why on earth would you think that? In 2-3 years we will have an aged Pronger eating space as well.

We just went from a team with a legit chance at the Cup next year to a team with pretty much no chance at a Cup. Yeah, I am pissed off.
How so? How exactly is Boston scary up front?

Rumors regarding the death of the Flyers have been greatly exaggerated.

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Old
06-24-2011, 09:29 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by CharlieGirl View Post
Does this number not scare the bejeebus out of you? It does me. Here's hoping no one gets the flu or minor injury and has to be off for a short period of time and an AHL'er has to be called up. I know, that rarely happens. Right?
Huh?

That's a 22 man lineup. If any injury is severe, then we call up a player using IR space.

The Flyers have operated large parts of seasons with less, much less.

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06-24-2011, 09:31 AM
  #40
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I got to admit it's kind of funny that people were *****ing about having no draft picks earlier. Well, we got them.

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06-24-2011, 09:32 AM
  #41
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I really look forward to what Jake can do with you guys. Some of our fans, who I just have to assume are new to the game, don't understand that players take time to develop. The only success that we've had with a home-grown talent was Rick Nash, and there were no growing pains. So when a player hits those valleys, a lot of our fans don't understand it, because the ones who go into the valleys usually don't come back up for us. But I digress...

Bottom line, Voracek has great potential. Maybe not elite, but close to it. A JVR-Giroux-Voracek line makes me extremely jealous. Right now he tends to over pass because he knows he's such a good passer, but in the NHL that can lead to turnovers, which is his biggest downfall right now. If Jake can trust in his own abilities more, he'll be a very valuable player.

Take care of him

PS- Just out of curiosity, what are the chances of bringing Zherdev back? I only ask because Jake wears 93, but his dad wanted him to wear 89 when he came to Columbus. That kinda thing interests me lol.

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Old
06-24-2011, 09:34 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
You think Homer will fix the D without screwing up elsewhere? Why on earth would you think that? In 2-3 years we will have an aged Pronger eating space as well.

We just went from a team with a legit chance at the Cup next year to a team with pretty much no chance at a Cup. Yeah, I am pissed off.
Well he fixed the D once, so I trust he can do it again when needed. Watch what happens when we move up tonight and draft the stud d-man of the future.

While I'm still shocked at losing Richie, I was honestly frustrated by the lack of consistancy that has followed this team, and leadership, since the start. First we thought it was Stevens, so he went. Now with a legit coach who knows the game and players, it continued. What's that tell me? They wiped out the Captain and leading scorer, and hopefully the laize faire attitude with it. I'm not condoning the trades, just trying to understand them, and if the front office that's forgotten more about hockey than I'll ever know, then I trust they made the right moves.

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06-24-2011, 09:35 AM
  #43
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How so? How exactly is Boston scary up front?

Rumors regarding the death of the Flyers have been greatly exaggerated.
Who on this team plays Bergeron's role?

We have a slew of players that will have to improve considerably and fill roles they haven't done before. Best case scenario, this all works out and the team will still go through growing pains. When is the last time a team gutted itself and had strong chemistry the following year?

These are not bad hockey deals, but they are bad if you wanted to see a Cup in the short term... Which is what this teams D was built to do.

Also, Bryz is not Tim Thomas.

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06-24-2011, 09:36 AM
  #44
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I haven't read all of your posts, so forgive me if this was already linked.

http://video.bluejackets.nhl.com/vid...=701&id=114011

It is an interview with Jake concerning his summer plans, etc. Not sure if the video will remain since he's been traded.
Yes, I watched it last night. Imagine, a young player spending his summer in Montreal working out in personal training program for hockey players. I wonder if it's the same strength guy Giroux and Briere worked with - I couldn't catch the name?

I am still not sure I like THE DEALS, but if Richards and Carter were enough of a problem in the room that they BOTH HAD to go, then so be it.

Voracek could break out and be a real star. Schenn is a stud - a big strong two-way C for the 3rd line. If both those players break out, it'll be a good core of forwards - and Simmonds is another player I really like too, as Tocchet said he should score 20 for sure.

If they can draft well this year and add a couple more pieces via UFA or trade, I don't think we're THAT far from contending next year. We'll have a very solid group of forwards, with some star power remaining (Giroux, Briere, JVR, Leino?) and a very solid D corp. Oh, and a great goalie.

With harmony and leadership in the room, they better produce. Briere said it right, it's a wake up call for whole team.

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Old
06-24-2011, 09:36 AM
  #45
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I got to admit it's kind of funny that people were *****ing about having no draft picks earlier. Well, we got them.
Welcome to the Flyers' board on HF...

Where it's expected that you have a COMPLETE elite roster, from 2 full scoring lines, a shutdown line and grind line, 6 solid defenseman, a HOF goalie, a prospect pool as large as Oprah's ass and $20M worth of cap space each year.


Riiiight.

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06-24-2011, 09:38 AM
  #46
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Well he fixed the D once, so I trust he can do it again when needed. Watch what happens when we move up tonight and draft the stud d-man of the future.

While I'm still shocked at losing Richie, I was honestly frustrated by the lack of consistancy that has followed this team, and leadership, since the start. First we thought it was Stevens, so he went. Now with a legit coach who knows the game and players, it continued. What's that tell me? They wiped out the Captain and leading scorer, and hopefully the laize faire attitude with it. I'm not condoning the trades, just trying to understand them, and if the front office that's forgotten more about hockey than I'll ever know, then I trust they made the right moves.
The same front office that saddled the team with the goalie tandem that failed them.

The front office has consistently mishandled team construction.

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06-24-2011, 09:38 AM
  #47
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People complain we have no picks, no goalie and that were aging so we get all three yesterday and now there complaining about that! We didn't win with what we had, changes had to be made! Quite complaining and see how things shake out and root for if team!

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06-24-2011, 09:38 AM
  #48
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I got to admit it's kind of funny that people were *****ing about having no draft picks earlier. Well, we got them.
Thank you. I figured this would be an HFer's wet dream. Actual draft picks. Room to sign a UFA or two....I would've rather had Methot than the 3rd, and Voynov or Hickey than the 2nd, but we do have some picks...

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06-24-2011, 09:39 AM
  #49
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Man, I woke up at 2 am feeling distressed about all of this. I still felt like the fact that Richards was gone couldn't be reality.

I think I was actually in shock over it to an extent.

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06-24-2011, 09:39 AM
  #50
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Anybody who thinks Voracek and Schenn will step in to replace Richards and Carter, and that this team can be considered a contender is completely out of their mind. Just thoroughly delusional.

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