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price drafted @ #5

View Poll Results: #5 overall draft *****
carry price 62 78.48%
anze kopitar 17 21.52%
marc staal 0 0%
Voters: 79. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
06-24-2011, 03:37 PM
  #51
AraGOHABSGO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
And ?
And who tells you that Kopitar would have been a PPG player? Maybe he would have turned out to be a A.K V2.0 if he started with us. Its not easy to live with Montreal's pressure. Btw, Fleury has Crosby,Malkin,Staal and I dont think only Kopitar would be enough. Giguere had Ryan,Getzlaf,Perry,Selanee. Osgood, do I really have to say? Niemi also had an amazing team in front.

Now look at what Roy did in 93, look at what Brodeur did with the Devils. No team and they still managed the cup.

So, I dont think with Kopitar + Halak, we would be better than with Price+Eller.

I just dont see it, plus I dont think Halak can play 60+ game in season and then 25+games in playoffs.

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06-24-2011, 03:38 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
I can respect your claim that Price is better than Halak in the playoffs even though that hasn't been proven yet.

But to say the difference between Price and Halak is so great that a ppg center doesn't even matter? I have to conclude you're a raging Price homer, know nothing about Kopitar and hated Halak because that's the only way this makes sense.

Especially since your claim that goalies win cups is not true at all. And as proof I'll bring you Niemi, Giguère, Osgood, Fleury who have won something like 5-6 of the last 15 cups and they clearly weren't the driving forces behind their team.

I could also name you TONS of great goalies who couldn't win cups because the teams they played for sucked (including possibly the greatest of all time in Hasek who couldn't win with Buffalo).

So I maintain that "Price > Halak+Kopitar for winning a cup" is a completely asinine claim.

EDIT:

I think I'd take Kopitar alone ahead of Price. A point per game center is pretty damn important to win a cup too. Arguably more so than a good goalie.

It's obvious that they are not just one model to win a cup.

But if you have a top5 goalie(something I think Price will become shortly) and a team base on defensive play like the Habs. I take Price over Halak and Kopitar and it's not even a question.

Price is very young and to me we have a lot chances to win a cup in the next 10 years if the team is bulid around him. I should have said defense win you championship and goalie is the most important thing on defense. Look at the Devils when Brodeur was in his prime

Just look at Thomas he's the main reason the Bruins won the cup and if he play the same way next year Bruins have chances to win another cup.

BTW I'm far from a Halak hater but in my opinion Price will be a much better goalie than him in the future.


Last edited by Quarantesix: 06-24-2011 at 03:45 PM.
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Old
06-24-2011, 03:53 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by AraGOHABSGO View Post
And who tells you that Kopitar would have been a PPG player? Maybe he would have turned out to be a A.K V2.0 if he started with us. Its not easy to live with Montreal's pressure.
So your argument is that we're destined for failure because of Montreal's pressure and shouldn't even bother to try using common sense because it's Montreal ? I'll have to not go along with that.


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Btw, Fleury has Crosby,Malkin,Staal and I dont think only Kopitar would be enough. Giguere had Ryan,Getzlaf,Perry,Selanee. Osgood, do I really have to say? Niemi also had an amazing team in front.
That's precisely my point.

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Now look at what Roy did in 93, look at what Brodeur did with the Devils. No team and they still managed the cup.
I am going to have to question your hockey knowledge here. Did you start watching the NHL last year because that would explain a lot. Probably should go back to the drawing board on this one.

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So, I dont think with Kopitar + Halak, we would be better than with Price+Eller.
That's not the point Quarantesix was making though.

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I just dont see it, plus I dont think Halak can play 60+ game in season and then 25+games in playoffs.
I think that's silly. 2 years ago Halak played that many games if you consider the olympic games + season + playoffs.

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06-24-2011, 03:56 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Quarantesix View Post
It's obvious that they are not just one model to win a cup.

But if you have a top5 goalie(something I think Price will become shortly) and a team base on defensive play like the Habs. I take Price over Halak and Kopitar and it's not even a question.

Price is very young and to me we have a lot chances to win a cup in the next 10 years if the team is bulid around him. I should have said defense win you championship and goalie is the most important thing on defense. Look at the Devils when Brodeur was in his prime

Just look at Thomas he's the main reason the Bruins won the cup and if he play the same way next year Bruins have chances to win another cup.

BTW I'm far from a Halak hater but in my opinion Price will be a much better goalie than him in the future.
You should have said that instead of "Price>Halak+Kopitar".

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06-24-2011, 03:59 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
You should have said that instead of "Price>Halak+Kopitar".
haha i know it was borderline trolling

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06-24-2011, 04:00 PM
  #56
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Quote:
So your argument is that we're destined for failure because of Montreal's pressure and shouldn't even bother to try using common sense because it's Montreal ? I'll have to not go along with that.
No, but you just can't say for sure that he will be as good as he will be. You never know how a player will turn out to be.

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That's precisely my point.
How the hell is it your point? The goalies who won the cup had an amazing team in front of him. So changing Gomez for Kopitar, does not make us an amazing game.

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I am going to have to question your hockey knowledge here. Did you start watching the NHL last year because that would explain a lot. Probably should go back to the drawing board on this one.
Once again, you dont even answer my point. Brodeur had no superstar when he won teh cup. But he is the best goalie in NHL ( record wise ). Just proving that a amazaing goalie can win games on his on. Why do you think the devils went for a defensif style? Because they know that they have a guy that can stop everything. Score a goal, and then just stay back.


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That's not the point Quarantesix was making though.
Could be, but it is my point.

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I think that's silly. 2 years ago Halak played that many games if you consider the olympic games + season + playoffs.
Get your facts right, Halak played 52 games if you include the Olympics. That would have meant 30 games for Auld... Yeah, I am sure we would of made the playoffs...

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06-24-2011, 04:03 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Quarantesix View Post
haha i know it was borderline trolling
Why do I always fall for it !!! Damn you Quarantesix!!!!

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Old
06-24-2011, 04:03 PM
  #58
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I'll take Price every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

He is the premier young goaltender in the league.

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06-24-2011, 04:04 PM
  #59
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Knowing what I know now:
Halak + Kopitar > Price + Eller
Kopitar-Pleky-Desharnais-FaceoffGuy = Potential Cups.

Hindsight is GOLDEN not 20/20.

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06-24-2011, 04:07 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by AraGOHABSGO View Post
No, but you just can't say for sure that he will be as good as he will be. You never know how a player will turn out to be.


How the hell is it your point? The goalies who won the cup had an amazing team in front of him. So changing Gomez for Kopitar, does not make us an amazing game.


Once again, you dont even answer my point. Brodeur had no superstar when he won teh cup. But he is the best goalie in NHL ( record wise ). Just proving that a amazaing goalie can win games on his on. Why do you think the devils went for a defensif style? Because they know that they have a guy that can stop everything. Score a goal, and then just stay back.



Could be, but it is my point.



Get your facts right, Halak played 52 games if you include the Olympics. That would have meant 30 games for Auld... Yeah, I am sure we would of made the playoffs...
I've been on the booze all day, can't keep it straight anymore, you win!

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06-24-2011, 04:10 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
I've been on the booze all day, can't keep it straight anymore, you win!
Cant blame ya, its St-Jean!!! xD

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06-24-2011, 04:11 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Goldthorpe View Post
For those wanting to kill time before the draft tonight...

Behold: the 2005 Habs Official Draft Thread. A true classic, and a must read if you weren't around back then.

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=156288

Aaaah, the memories.

I almost hope we draft a goalie tonight, just for all the drama and the lulz it would create.
So classic, this is the reason, I never react to draft picks. You never know what they are going to turn out like at the time.

I remember watching them pick Price, and saying, "alright, they think he is going to be good."

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06-24-2011, 04:23 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
So classic, this is the reason, I never react to draft picks. You never know what they are going to turn out like at the time.

I remember watching them pick Price, and saying, "alright, they think he is going to be good."
Honestly, I read that thread and I was against the pick and I have no regrets and I'm not ashamed at all in my opinion.

Here's one of my post in that thread :

Quote:
What great selections has Timmins made with the habs as director of scouting that should make us hangs our heads in shame and have blind faith in his pick ?

Kostitsyn ? A good number of players selected after him look better at this point, altough the jury is still out on that selection. Urquhart ? Ouch.

Chipchura ? I guess it was hard to make a big mistake at that point. But still Meszaros looks like a better selection IMHO.

I have always had doubts on Timmins and never voiced them, never raved on him either. I took the time to watch his work and I'm not reassured. Call me an idiotic poster on a message board who knows nothing, I don't care. We're all posters on this board, we all have opinions and this board would be nothing, would be quite boring, if everyone were to just agree blindly with everything the management does. It's not because we cheer for the habs that we all have to be brainless cheerleaders in tricolore bikinis. They're bound to make mistakes, and drafting Price was possibly one of them.

Now that being said, altough I don't remember him all that much from the U18 he probably didn't really impress or I would have noticed. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and pray that he proves me wrong and ends up being a better player than 95% of the guys selected after him.

My reasoning behind the disapointment is not that, despite what I've said on Timmins, I have no faith in the management. Or that I think Price is a terrible player. In fact I think we have good management, possibly a top 5 in the NHL . But that doesn't mean we have the best scouting staff (director and regular scouts). Also I think that Price is probably a very good young goalie and player.

It's just that drafting a goalie this high is a bad idea IMO for many reasons, especially when a player such as Brule is still left on the board and will likely be ready years before Price is.

The first being that goalies are historically players that take a LONG time to develop. They are the guys who have an impact the latest after they are drafted. Very few goalies have an impact before they're 23 years old.

Second, goalies are UNPREDICTABLE. Why ? Because a huge part of what makes a goalie good is not necessarily his physical package but what he has between the ears. And it's difficult to know how a kid is going to develop mentally when he's 17 years old. Price himself said on RDS that he basically had very little contact/discussions with the habs. How can they know how strong mentally the kid is if they didn't talk to him a lot ?

Third, with the free agency at 25-27, by the time Price is likely to be an impact player, we might have him for only 2-3 years. So in the end we will use ressources to develop him, he'll cost us money, and we might only get a small return. Drafting a goalie this high, IMO, is doing the hard work for other teams.

Fourth, Timmins go out and say that Price reminds him of Brodeur and that what PARTICULARLY impressed him about Price was his stickhandling abilities... WTH ? Goalies won't be given the same freedom than in the past in handling the puck. If that's what most impressed Timmins and that it played a big part he's a moron.

Fifth, look at the past couple years. Islanders selected Dipietro 1st overall while Heatley and Gaborik made the NHL quickly and became franchise players. Then the pens selected MAF and he had all kinds of troubles following his stint in the NHL while guys like Zherdev, Staal, Phaneuf, Carter, Richards, Horton, Vanek looks really promising. I just think drafting goalies that high is risky business. And MAF is much more highly touted than Price.

As I'm writing this the habs draft Guillaume Latendresse. I'm pleased with that pick But then again I don't have the right to an opinion, I'm merely a poster on a messagard boards

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06-24-2011, 04:31 PM
  #64
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I don't really have a problem with people who make posts like that, have logical explanations and back up their opinions.

What I hate is the whining and dramatics when they probably don't even know **** about what they are talking about.

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06-24-2011, 05:11 PM
  #65
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It was a gutsy move by Gainey. It sure paid off in spades.

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06-24-2011, 05:16 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
This great misconception that Gomez was THE deal braker that made it possible to acquire Gionta and Cammy....So a guy like Gomez who had a terrible year was much more a dealbraker than a courageous captain who was just as capable of putting points on the board. A Koivu that was also known as a playoff performer would not have been able to made those acquisitions possible...Try overpaying BIG TIME for Gionta and an overpayment by Cammy, and you have your reasons.....When Lamoriello say to Gionta to jump on the Habs offer......you know it's a whole lot about the money.
Well I recognize that both Gionta and Cammalleri got about 1 million more than they would have touched elsewhere but you have to take the tax factor in consideration, what is huge if you compare to the other states.. so the Habs will always have to pay more to get a UFA.. same for the Nordics if ever they get a team back..

Also Gio and Gomez had some real chimestry togheter some years ago, they are good friends and Im convinced it mattered in his decision to sign here.. and as much as I like Koivu, we just couldnt attract any quality UFAs under his era..

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06-24-2011, 05:22 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
It was a gutsy move by Gainey. It sure paid off in spades.
By Timmins who was hired by Savard and it hasn't paid much dividends yet considering Price has had 2 good seasons and 2 bad ones.. and never shined in the playoffs.

Other than that, you're bang on.

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06-24-2011, 05:24 PM
  #68
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carey price with two r

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06-24-2011, 05:30 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
By Timmins who was hired by Savard and it hasn't paid much dividends yet considering Price has had 2 good seasons and 2 bad ones.. and never shined in the playoffs.

Other than that, you're bang on.
He's going to shine throughout his career... and these playoffs carey was golden I dunno what you are talking about

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06-24-2011, 05:33 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Dirty Danglez View Post
He's going to shine throughout his career...
Possibly. Hopefully. Wouldn't surprise me much.

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and these playoffs carey was golden I dunno what you are talking about
Mmmm..do I really want to get into this... le sigh

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06-24-2011, 05:50 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
And ?

To add to that.

Bryzgalov, Lundqvist, Rinne, Kiprusoff, Miller, Ward, Thomas are all at least arguably equal to Price.

Brodeur and Roloson were equal/better but are aging.

And then there are the young wolves : Crawford, Bernier, Neuvirth, Brobovski. They might never be as good but they might come close.

Thing is the difference between a good goalie and one of the best.. it's not much at all.
Poeple tend to forget how many bad goals Thomas has allowed all along his carreer, last playoffs included, he is a good goalie, he is pretty combative in his net but he is technically flawed and is far from being a top goaltender, he had an hell of a hockey machine playing in front of him, the Bruins play this game tight, they are disciplined, they are big and fast, they are tough, pretty well coached and they allow alot of shots against from the outside.. Good things happen to good persons so thats why Im happy for Thomas, but lets be realistic, the Bruins would have probably won the cup with Corey Crawford in net.. I mean Thomas has been a total non factor at home in the last serie, he has made some big saves but was playing without any pressure considering the guys playing in front of him were outplaying the Nucks badly, so he didnt have to make the difference.. He lost his 3 first game on the Nucks' ice and won the last one 4-0, so in the close games, Thomas didnt win one by his own.. And Im not even talking about the first serie against the Habs where he was pretty bad allowing bad goals after bad goals.. was solid against Philly, pretty average against Tampa.. so there was alot of up and down for Thomas all along the playoffs.. Yeah he won the Conny Smythe but it was to expect since the Bruins had no player who really stand out, it was a team effort all along..

In the list you dressed, only Rhinne can be considered as good or better than Price right now IMO, Lunqvist Miller and Brysgalov are certainly part of the elite of this league but I take the Price we saw last season before them.. Ward is a notch below the ones I named and Kiper's game has decreased...

Price has almost been perfect all the season long giving us a chance to win every night even when we were badly outplayed.. He stole a bunch of games by his own as well.. You can count the bad goals he has allowed with your hands over a 72 games season... Lets wait and see the team Gauthier will put togheter this summer cause with a more consistent team playing in front of him, sky is the limit for Carey...


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