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Scott Harrington | D | London (OHL) | Second Round, 54th overall

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Old
06-25-2011, 05:27 PM
  #51
Sidney the Kidney
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Originally Posted by TravisUlrich View Post
@ this board!

In the draft, especially after the 1st round, you're hoping to pick someone who will just make it to the NHL regardless of their position!
While I understand the sentiment that you hope your picks at least result in an NHL player, I think the better clubs are aiming a bit higher than just hoping the guy makes the NHL with their second round pick.

Ideally, you don't want to be drafting Max Talbot or Pascal Dupuis with that high of a pick.

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06-25-2011, 07:34 PM
  #52
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Yeah because we really needed another defensemen we have so few.......
See, this is what I don't get. Right now, in 2011, our D is set up pretty well and (maybe) what we really need is wingerz!!1!. When management does not select "wingerz11!1" exclusively in the first 97 rounds of the draft many feel the draft is a bust.
Do not posters here realize that, for the most part, the draftees today (and yesterday) may, if they are extremely luck and talented, start contributing to the team in 2 to 5 years? And by then maybe we might be low on good D-men and stocked high with 8,000 goal per-game wingsters1!1!?
IMO we should start looking at good goalies ASAP. MAF ain't gonna be around forever, and setting up a stellar system focusing on better than average defensemen is a very good, forward-looking plan.
So I mean, as good as we are right now and should be for the forseeable future, what are the odds we are in position to draft a Mario, Sid, Malkin, or stonecold-lock 100 point per year forward anytime soon?
Draft solid D prospects, and those that project to fit well within our current managment's style of play and let RS do his deals when and if they become neccessary, that's my opinion.
Your mileage my certainly vary.

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06-25-2011, 08:08 PM
  #53
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Pretty much all the prospects worth talking about were gone by about pick 44 or 45 as far as I'm concerned. Might as well go for the guy with the most upside, the guy who as at one point was on watch for the first round of this draft.

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06-25-2011, 08:31 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by clefty View Post
Pretty much all the prospects worth talking about were gone by about pick 44 or 45 as far as I'm concerned. Might as well go for the guy with the most upside, the guy who as at one point was on watch for the first round of this draft.
I actually disagree with this. This is a player who fell 31 spots in CS rankings, was listed outside of the top 100 by RedLine & CSS. I don't have a problem with taking this player in the draft at some point, but I have a hard time believing that he was either the best player available at that spot, or that we couldn't have used that pick in a trade/trade-up/trade-down scenario to garner more value or a better player.

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06-25-2011, 08:39 PM
  #55
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Like who. Name names. And why.

Perhaps its worth noting, as seems to be done this time every single year, Alex Goligoski was ranked 143 among North American skaters when we took him in the second round in 2004. Another draft without a healthy dose of deep talent.


Last edited by clefty: 06-25-2011 at 08:49 PM.
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Old
06-25-2011, 08:57 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by clefty View Post
Like who. Name names. And why.

Perhaps its worth noting, as seems to be done this time every single year, Alex Goligoski was ranked 143 among North American skaters when we took him in the second round in 2004.
Well, Kucherov most obviously. Any number of other earlier ranked players though.

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06-25-2011, 09:09 PM
  #57
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A slight, physically weak guy who might never even come out. But he can stickhandle, so he's probably automatically some kind of savant to a lot of people.

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06-25-2011, 09:10 PM
  #58
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I'll just say this: it's not uncommon for a player development coach to watch video on every game a prospect plays. Scott Harrington plays with Reid McNeil and becasue of that the Penguins staff has probably seen more than 90% of the hockey he's played this year. They know what they're getting.

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06-25-2011, 09:11 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by clefty View Post
Pretty much all the prospects worth talking about were gone by about pick 44 or 45 as far as I'm concerned. Might as well go for the guy with the most upside, the guy who as at one point was on watch for the first round of this draft.
This should be stated. That's around the next drop off in talent started around there.

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06-25-2011, 09:27 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by clefty View Post
A slight, physically weak guy who might never even come out. But he can stickhandle, so he's probably automatically some kind of savant to a lot of people.
I hadn't heard anything about him being weak...Murphy, Rattie, and Khokhlachev are the same size. The Russian factor is why he fell.

He broke the under-18 scoring record and had by far the most upside of anyone remaining.

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06-25-2011, 09:34 PM
  #61
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Sounds like he's got a pretty good skill package. He plays on a team that has a terrific track record in developing NHLers, particularly in the last 5-6 years. I'm intrigued by Harrington, if nothing else.

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06-25-2011, 09:40 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Champagne Wishes View Post
I hadn't heard anything about him being weak...Murphy, Rattie, and Khokhlachev are the same size. The Russian factor is why he fell.

He broke the under-18 scoring record and had by far the most upside of anyone remaining.
That's actually what i've been reading is his biggest negative. In some of these reports, though, it's hard to gauge just what they're comparing it to ... 75% of the players in the draft seem to come with the caveat that they "need to get stronger", so sometimes it's hard to judge if it's a legitimate long term concern or just a contextual reality.

FWIW, i do remember Woodlief at RLR saying something like "we think he's soft and a horrible diver"

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06-25-2011, 09:43 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Champagne Wishes View Post
I hadn't heard anything about him being weak..
Pretty much what I've heard about him the most.

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06-25-2011, 09:48 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by clefty View Post
Pretty much what I've heard about him the most.
Not being dismissive here, but link? I'd like to read more about it.

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06-25-2011, 09:52 PM
  #65
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Man, just google it, I don't feel like poring over scouting reports anymore.

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06-25-2011, 10:01 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by clefty View Post
Like who. Name names. And why.
-Mario Lucia (ranked near the top 40 by many, top-6 upside, NHL calibre shooter already)
-Shane Prince (very high offensive upside, fantastic skater)
-Ryan Sproul (bigger Dman who shot up 70 spots in the rankings, very high offensive upside)
-Adam Lowry (power-forward upside, good bloodlines, highly ranked)
-Joe Labate (huge forward project, huge overall upside)
-Mike Reilly (small Dman, big skill & offensive upside)
-Nikitie Kucherov (huge risk, but also huge reward)
-Nikita Filatov (same as above -- if OTT can get him for a 3rd, we could have got him for a 2nd)
-someone from Europe
-one of the better goaltending prospects
-trading down in the 2nd round to pick up another pick in the 2nd/3rd round (where we could have possibly selected some of those players)
-using our 2nd rounder to trade up 2/3/4 spots if there was someone better than Morrow (I like Morrow, but if we liked Murphy or Klefbom better, we should have tried to move up)


Naturally, those are just some names and I can't comment on those players personally. I would love it if Harington develops great. I just have a hard time believing he has the same upside as some of those other players or wouldn't be worth moving the pick up/down. If, at best, he projects as a reliable, left-handed defensive Dman, we already have some good ones in Strait & Samuelsson....

I have ZERO problem with taking the BPA, but then it naturally follows that at some point it makes sense to trade those assets to address needs. If Shero, for example, traded Sneep or Strait for an early 2nd round pick and selected a forward they really loved (i.e. Khoko, Rattie, Jurco, etc.), then that's great -- that's what those assets are for. Similarly, if we traded one of our top D prospects for a solid forward who would make our team next season, then you could say that we need to re-stock the defensive pipeline.

I just don't see the high-end potential with Harington that there were with some of those other players. I'd have no problem taking 7 Dmen in 7 rounds if they were truly BPAs at that time. Sproul, as an example, is just a guy who brings a more unique package of size/skill/upside...even if he never pans out. As they say, at some point you need to swing for the fences...

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06-25-2011, 10:15 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by clefty View Post
Man, just google it, I don't feel like poring over scouting reports anymore.
All I've found is the standard "needs to get stronger/bulk up" that you hear about every 170 pound player in every draft class. It certainly hasn't been mentioned as anything like an Achilles heel.

Whatever. I just hope Harrington eventually makes the reach worth it, because right now he doesn't seem to have the safety or high upside to make it worthwhile. More Brian Strait-ish than anything.

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06-26-2011, 12:50 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by clefty View Post
Like who. Name names. And why.

Perhaps its worth noting, as seems to be done this time every single year, Alex Goligoski was ranked 143 among North American skaters when we took him in the second round in 2004. Another draft without a healthy dose of deep talent.
Yes, but the Pens SAW great talent in Gogo, regardless of his rating. They probably thought: hey, this guy could QB a power play one day. Harington, regardless of rating, is projected as a bottom pair defensive Dman.

I'd love a Goligoski-type pick (i.e. Mike Reilly, Ryan Sproul)

Quote:
Originally Posted by eXile59 View Post
This should be stated. That's around the next drop off in talent started around there.
THis is PRECISELY why I wanted to trade up in the first round. If you really believe after the top 40 or so picks that all you're really going to get are bottom pair Dmen and bottom 6 forwards, then why not trade our 2nd rounder with our first to move up in the 1st round to get a few spots higher, OR package our 2nd with a 3rd/4th round pick next year to move up 5 to 10 spots to get one of those top "40 or so" players. I'm telling you, we could have moved up in the 2nd to grab a player like Khokhlachev.

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06-26-2011, 01:29 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Champagne Wishes View Post
All I've found is the standard "needs to get stronger/bulk up" that you hear about every 170 pound player in every draft class. It certainly hasn't been mentioned as anything like an Achilles heel.

Whatever. I just hope Harrington eventually makes the reach worth it, because right now he doesn't seem to have the safety or high upside to make it worthwhile. More Brian Strait-ish than anything.
http://www.boltprospects.com/content...reviews?page=1

Quote:
Ryan Woodlief, Red Line Report: “If you had told us before the U-18 tourney that someone would score 11 goals and 21 points to lead the scoring parade, and then given us, oh … let's say a gazillion guesses as to who it might be — well, let's just say we'd still be guessing.
True, Kucherov was slightly riding on the coattails of Mikhail Grigorenko and Nail Yakupov — his more dynamic teammates who opened things up for the rest of the crew. But still, we can't deny that Kucherov was terrific, even if we still feel he's soft and a horrific diver. His performance was a real eye opener for RLR.”
Quote:
Goren Stubbs, NHL Director of European Scouting: "He came up from nowhere. I saw him in August, saw him in November, saw him in February, and in August and November you could hardly notice him. In February he was the star on the team and in April he was the star of the tournament.

“He's a very good passer and playmaker. Perhaps he didn't have confidence in himself in the beginning of the season. But in February and April, when I saw him in tournaments, international competition, he was filled with confidence and did a lot of things with the puck that he didn't do before.

"He needs a lot of strength, because a little push and he's down on the ice," said Stubb. "But he's a talented player."
Googled "Kucherov draft" and found this. Good page with multiple sources. Lots of quotes indicating both how weak he is AND how crazy talented he is.

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06-26-2011, 07:30 AM
  #70
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Shero taking all the London defensemen... McNeill now Harrington.

Harrington did have a rough year. I think he's got the potentional to turn into Paul Martin. He was very good as a 16 year old but London expected him to take the offensive side of his game up a notch that hurt him defensively last year. Join the rush alot but did it at the wrong time. Now in saying that he is a smart player... very vocal on the ice and has leadership written on him. Problem with London the last two years there D haven't been allowed to use there offensive side. 5 forward powerplays, there first two options when they had the puck in there zone were off the glass or ice it. This year you may see the real Harrington step up because the coach that employed the defensive first is gone. I think the kid could turn out to be a top-4 D-man and has the potentional to be a leader as well. Hockey Canada likes him an awful lot and is a top pairing guy so far with them.

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06-26-2011, 08:08 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Uncle Jorgi View Post
http://www.boltprospects.com/content...reviews?page=1





Googled "Kucherov draft" and found this. Good page with multiple sources. Lots of quotes indicating both how weak he is AND how crazy talented he is.
I knew about Woodlief's quote, but he's a bit of a space cadet.

The link isn't working for me right now for some reason, but I'll check it out later.

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06-26-2011, 10:16 AM
  #72
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I wonder how much Harrington playing for London came into play? If a kid is going back to a good organization, it's less worries for the team, and increases the probability of that guy being prepared for pro hockey.

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06-26-2011, 10:22 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by JL17 View Post
Shero taking all the London defensemen... McNeill now Harrington.

Harrington did have a rough year. I think he's got the potentional to turn into Paul Martin. He was very good as a 16 year old but London expected him to take the offensive side of his game up a notch that hurt him defensively last year. Join the rush alot but did it at the wrong time. Now in saying that he is a smart player... very vocal on the ice and has leadership written on him. Problem with London the last two years there D haven't been allowed to use there offensive side. 5 forward powerplays, there first two options when they had the puck in there zone were off the glass or ice it. This year you may see the real Harrington step up because the coach that employed the defensive first is gone. I think the kid could turn out to be a top-4 D-man and has the potentional to be a leader as well. Hockey Canada likes him an awful lot and is a top pairing guy so far with them.
Thanks for that. Sounds like a solid pick.

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06-27-2011, 03:21 PM
  #74
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I wonder how much Harrington playing for London came into play? If a kid is going back to a good organization, it's less worries for the team, and increases the probability of that guy being prepared for pro hockey.
Certainly helps I imagine, helps reduce the 'bust' factor especially on picks outside of the 1st round. I was hoping we'd take Sproul and the Wings took him next which scares me

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06-27-2011, 03:37 PM
  #75
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That happens pretty much every single year. Same thing happened with Pulkkinen last year.

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