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Reports Flyers Trade Carter to CBJ, Richards to LAK; Sign Bryzgalov for 9 years

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06-25-2011, 11:00 AM
  #226
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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
All this gloating while Philly remains in better shape than the Rangers. Their forwards are still more talented, and now they have a goalie, and at least for a short while, their defense is just fine.

I don't care how talented Richards is. If the reports about his personality and the off-ice garbage is true, the Flyers are way better off without him. Turning him and Carter into assets, even if not as good as Richards and Carter was the smart way to go.
I agree, the gloating is ridiculous. I remember well what it felt like to see Ratelle and Park get sent down the road. Sucks for any fan base to lose the face of their franchise. Philly did every one else a favor and sent a strong message. The situation had to be serious and Holmgren should be commended for having the balls to do the right thing.

Where we disagree is where the Rangers are at. As usual, you are more than a bit negative there. But you have tenure here after a fashion, and you always use your head.

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06-25-2011, 12:21 PM
  #227
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How do you think Setoguchi feels? He signs a 3 year 9 million dollar contract with the Sharks then gets traded the next day.
Not a good feeling, true, but we are talking nearly ten years with Carter and Richie. They gave up UFA status in their prime years. Oh well.

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06-25-2011, 01:54 PM
  #228
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i really dont think philly is in that much better shape than us, if any at all. we have the better goalie imo. i think both defenses are pretty much even considering pronger is old and breaking down. and if we get richards i think our fowards are better. dont really see how they are in better shape than us pending richards.

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06-25-2011, 02:32 PM
  #229
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i really dont think philly is in that much better shape than us, if any at all. we have the better goalie imo. i think both defenses are pretty much even considering pronger is old and breaking down. and if we get richards i think our fowards are better. dont really see how they are in better shape than us pending richards.
their offense is more dynamic, although the loss of their top-2 centermen does hurt them a lot. We are definately catching up fast

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06-25-2011, 03:12 PM
  #230
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their offense is more dynamic, although the loss of their top-2 centermen does hurt them a lot. We are definately catching up fast
i think that their offense was dynamic. but they def took a step back, at least for now. which is why i dont think they are in better shape than us.

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06-25-2011, 04:34 PM
  #231
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i don't care how you spin it, but it makes their organization look ridulously bad! they sell the face of Carter and Richards for years now and then up and trade them?

Carter, a pure goal scorer, and Richards one of the best two way forwards in the game, both young and locked up for years to come, suddenly are cancers that move be moved ASAP, and on top of that, lied to?

They bring Pronger in knowing his personality, same with Laviolette and you knew it would disrupt things. Pronger by the way couldn't even finish the season he had so many injuries. How many more productive season does he even have left, let alone lead a team on another deep run to the playoffs.

As far as the goaltender they signed, how much better has his regular seasons been than what the Flyers had previously? His post seasons have been just as bad if not worse that's for sure.

Voricek and Simmonds are nowhere near Carter and Richards. Do you really think that Briere, Giroux, and JVR are going to thrive without them?


Richards and Carter must have been up to unspeakable crimes in order to be moved in this manner. Goalie or no Goalie, there are at least 3 or4 players on that roster i would have moved to clear up capspace before those guys.

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06-25-2011, 04:43 PM
  #232
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i don't care how you spin it, but it makes their organization look ridulously bad! they sell the face of Carter and Richards for years now and then up and trade them?

Carter, a pure goal scorer, and Richards one of the best two way forwards in the game, both young and locked up for years to come, suddenly are cancers that move be moved ASAP, and on top of that, lied to?

They bring Pronger in knowing his personality, same with Laviolette and you knew it would disrupt things. Pronger by the way couldn't even finish the season he had so many injuries. How many more productive season does he even have left, let alone lead a team on another deep run to the playoffs.

As far as the goaltender they signed, how much better has his regular seasons been than what the Flyers had previously? His post seasons have been just as bad if not worse that's for sure.

Voricek and Simmonds are nowhere near Carter and Richards. Do you really think that Briere, Giroux, and JVR are going to thrive without them?


Richards and Carter must have been up to unspeakable crimes in order to be moved in this manner. Goalie or no Goalie, there are at least 3 or4 players on that roster i would have moved to clear up capspace before those guys.
im saying richards slept with brindamors wife. has to be it.

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06-25-2011, 04:46 PM
  #233
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too much drama with that oranization. couldn't care less because i can't stand them, but their stock has definitely dropped imo after this move.

Richards would be nuts to end up there.

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06-26-2011, 08:43 AM
  #234
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i don't care how you spin it, but it makes their organization look ridulously bad! they sell the face of Carter and Richards for years now and then up and trade them?
To whom do they look bad? Not their own fan base. Richards took a ton of heat after the last two playoffs for a perceived failure of leadership, and Carter has been wildly inconsistent in the playoffs, which is the only real season for that team. Both had been cited for their late-night activities that seemed to affect their play and for lack of fire at critical times.

The fact is that those two made the culture of that team, and many, many Flyer fans were sick of the culture of the team. Now the organization may look "ridiculously bad" to you, but frankly they don't give a damn about the opinions of fans of other teams, any more than the Devils did when they were winning Cups and everyone was whining about how "boring" they were.

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Carter, a pure goal scorer, and Richards one of the best two way forwards in the game, both young and locked up for years to come, suddenly are cancers that move be moved ASAP, and on top of that, lied to?
It's not sudden. You've obviously not followed the team for the last few years.

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They bring Pronger in knowing his personality, same with Laviolette and you knew it would disrupt things.
No, they brought in those guys because they wanted to knock these kids out of their comfort zone and into some maturity. That's why the team axed Stevens - their coach going back to the AHL - and that's why they brought in a vet with a strong personality.

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As far as the goaltender they signed, how much better has his regular seasons been than what the Flyers had previously?
Are you seriously asking if Byzgalov is no better than a pair of journeymen like Leighton and Boucher and a sophomore like Bobrovsky?

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His post seasons have been just as bad if not worse that's for sure.
I'm thinking that wouldn't include his .944 (3 shutout) and .922 post-seasons with Anaheim, right?

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Voricek and Simmonds are nowhere near Carter and Richards.
Of course not and they're not intended to replace Carter and Richards. JVR and Giroux are intended to replace Carter and Richards.

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Do you really think that Briere, Giroux, and JVR are going to thrive without them?
Giroux will do just fine. If you really think his game was predicated on Richards, you weren't paying attention. As for JVR, that's what the Flyers want to see. They'll give him more minutes, moving him up from the third line and icing him on the top PP unit. Given his development so far, only a fool would say there's no hope of him getting better with more minutes. He's done nothing BUT that so far. He outperformed Richards and Carter by a country mile in the playoffs.

But you're certainly right about Briere. I mean, it's not like THAT guy had any history of success before playing with Carter.

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Richards and Carter must have been up to unspeakable crimes in order to be moved in this manner.
Yes. And Jaromir Jagr must have committed unspeakable crimes to be let go by the Rangers, seeing he was the face of the franchise and their only legit offensive threat.

Or maybe the Rangers just wanted to go in a new direction.

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i can't stand them
That's clear and it's something that clearly shapes your evaluation of their moves.

This was a bold move by that franchise, and only time will tell if it pays off for them. They're bigger and grittier today; with a more stable and a better goaltending situation; and, presumably, a more unified locker room. They'll almost certainly lose some regular season goals (depending on what happens with JVR, Voracek, Schenn, and Couturier), but that team doesn't much care what happens in the regular serason anyway, and unlike the Rangers, they actually had two impact forwards on their team to replace the impact forwards they traded away.

If any two things show the difference between that franchise and this one, it's the talent they were able to move because they could and the boldness of the action.

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06-26-2011, 01:25 PM
  #235
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i'm sorry are you a flyer apologist? I don't pay attention is that it?
I live in PA and work in philadelphia. I have alot of co-workers who are flyer fans, one in particular who is privy to inside info about the team at times.

No one saw this coming, many were shocked, and not everyone sees this as the cut and dry "different direction" that you claim was the only thing going on here. Even Carter and Richards said publically they were shocked. Holgren was close to tears in the press conference, yet this was nothing more than a change in directions similar to when Jagr left a few years ago? If you want to believe that go ahead. I don't.

As far as the goaltending situation, they've alleivated themselves of the revolving tandem of goalies, by finally getting a true starter.
The fact is recently he's hardly been impressive in post season giving up 17g, in a sweep! Sure looks like the case is closed on the flyers goaltending situation.

I realize they had to make a move for a goaltender, but you don't trade your captain and assitant captain, young stars who are locked up in their mid twenties unless there's a fiasco going on! You can't tell me the flyers orangization didn't know about their antics until after they awarded them each 10yr contracts.


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06-26-2011, 02:23 PM
  #236
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i'm sorry are you a flyer apologist? I don't pay attention is that it?
I live in PA and work in philadelphia. I have alot of co-workers who are flyer fans, one in particular who is privy to inside info about the team at times.

No one saw this coming, many were shocked, and not everyone sees this as the cut and dry "different direction" that you claim was the only thing going on here. Even Carter and Richards said publically they were shocked. Holgren was close to tears in the press conference, yet this was nothing more than a change in directions similar to when Jagr left a few years ago? If you want to believe that go ahead. I don't.

As far as the goaltending situation, they've alleivated themselves of the revolving tandem of goalies, by finally getting a true starter.
The fact is recently he's hardly been impressive in post season giving up 17g, in a sweep! Sure looks like the case is closed on the flyers goaltending situation.

I realize they had to make a move for a goaltender, but you don't trade your captain and assitant captain, young stars who are locked up in their mid twenties unless there's a fiasco going on! You can't tell me the flyers orangization didn't know about their antics until after they awarded them each 10yr contracts.
Agreed. It's not like these two guys were about to turn 30 or on the wrong side of 30. They are both still relatively young for what they are producing and what they meant to the franchise. They were essentially the franchise players any organization would want and so they were fan favorites.

It was a fiasco hands down.

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06-26-2011, 02:52 PM
  #237
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I could understand moving Carter if they were unhappy with his playoff performances and thought they could bolster their depth with the return from trading him and wanted to clear up some cap space to sign Bryzgalov, but the Richards trade has me scratching my head.

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06-26-2011, 02:57 PM
  #238
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Yes. And Jaromir Jagr must have committed unspeakable crimes to be let go by the Rangers, seeing he was the face of the franchise and their only legit offensive threat.

Or maybe the Rangers just wanted to go in a new direction.
I'm going with option C: Sather penny-pinching Jagr and then thinking it be a better investment to throw down $10 million between Redden and Naslund.

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06-26-2011, 03:14 PM
  #239
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I'm going with option C: Sather penny-pinching Jagr and then thinking it be a better investment to throw down $10 million between Redden and Naslund.
The order of operations is wrong there. It was AFTER Sather and Jagr's camp determined they were not going to negotiate a deal, that he was then able to go out and shop for those players. Sather told the media that he waited for a phone call from Jagr's agent leading up to July 1st to negotiate a deal and that did not happen, so they determined they were moving on.

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06-26-2011, 03:40 PM
  #240
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The order of operations is wrong there. It was AFTER Sather and Jagr's camp determined they were not going to negotiate a deal, that he was then able to go out and shop for those players. Sather told the media that he waited for a phone call from Jagr's agent leading up to July 1st to negotiate a deal and that did not happen, so they determined they were moving on.
It isn't wrong: Sather and Jagr discuss, cut to Naslund and Redden.

That is, of course, there actually WAS a discussion to begin with.

I wouldn't be surprised if one side said "$7-8 million" and the other laughed while sucking on a cigar.

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06-26-2011, 03:45 PM
  #241
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It isn't wrong: Sather and Jagr discuss, cut to Naslund and Redden.

That is, of course, there actually WAS a discussion to begin with.

I wouldn't be surprised if one side said "$7-8 million" and the other laughed while sucking on a cigar.
I am referencing Sather's commends on July 1st:

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4:54pm ET - Sather about Jagr: "I talked to Jaromir today and waited for a call for the last couple of days and nothing happened, so we decided they were going to move on."
It's always been my contention that if Jagr's camp was serious about re-signing with NYR, they would have put forth a serious effort to negotiate a deal just before July 1st, and they didn't.

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06-26-2011, 03:52 PM
  #242
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I am referencing Sather's commends on July 1st:



It's always been my contention that if Jagr's camp was serious about re-signing with NYR, they would have put forth a serious effort to negotiate a deal just before July 1st, and they didn't.
And Jagr portrays Sather as the one not wanting him.

Sather signed Redden July 1st. Jagr signed with Omsk on the 4th. Doesn't really seem that Jagr shunned the Rangers.

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06-27-2011, 03:02 PM
  #243
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#Flyers have traded center Darroll Powe to Minnesota in exchange for Minnesota’s 3rd round draft pick in the 2013 NHL Entry Draft.
@NHLFlyers

Only a $725,000 cap hit though. Capgeek says they have $6,731,905 of cap space now. Voracek, Carcillo and Simmonds are their RFAs.

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06-27-2011, 07:22 PM
  #244
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Agreed. It's not like these two guys were about to turn 30 or on the wrong side of 30. They are both still relatively young for what they are producing and what they meant to the franchise. They were essentially the franchise players any organization would want and so they were fan favorites.

It was a fiasco hands down.
Fiasco in what way?

Presumably Flyers management knows the worth of these two players on the ice, unless anyone here thinks they are plain stupid.

Therefore, to not understand that this was a cleansing deemed necessary by management is to not have a grasp of the situation. Obviously, they wanted these two players gone and they acted swiftly and decisively. That is what management is supposed to do.

The problem is that we almost never see this sort of decisiveness in professional sports, so some are horrified and look at it as the Flyers got ripped off and acted irresponsibly towards the franchise and the fanbase.

I'm of the belief that they made the right move, solely because they made what on the surface seems to be nutso deals. I applaud the way they got rid of what they considered negatives. We'll see how it plays out.

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06-27-2011, 07:35 PM
  #245
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And Jagr portrays Sather as the one not wanting him.

Sather signed Redden July 1st. Jagr signed with Omsk on the 4th. Doesn't really seem that Jagr shunned the Rangers.
I thought it was pretty telling he did not try to negotiate with any other NHL teams. Surely if he wanted to stay in the NHL he could have negotiated a contract with another team. It's my belief he intended to go to the KHL all along. By not hammering out a deal with Sather before July 1st, it appeared it was the team (and not the player) who decided to move on.

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06-27-2011, 07:42 PM
  #246
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Regardless of whether or not people think what the Flyers did was the right move in the grand scheme of things, it's impossible to say that Philadelphia is a better team as presently constructed than they were.

Anyone that wants to argue is grasping at straws and then some.

I'm sure Richards and Carter's off ice antics were reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaalllllllllllllllllllllllllllll llllllyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy hurting that team when they were one goal away from winning a Stanley Cup 12 freaking months ago.

I'm sureeeeeee that Philadelphia fans were superrrrrrrrrrrrr fed up with them 12 months ago as well.

Right.

Then again the posters in here who are patting the Flyers on the back are the ones who only post when they want to critique anyone whom they believe is overly pro-Rangers.

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06-28-2011, 04:29 AM
  #247
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Your thinly veiled post assumes one thing; that the Flyers are definitely worse going forward, something you cannot know for two reasons:

1. It is impossible to know the future, both immediate and longterm, expecially in sports.

2. You don't have a clue what went on off-ice. If it was as bad as some of us suspect, they had no choice but to take the actions they did.

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06-28-2011, 05:03 AM
  #248
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Not a good feeling, true, but we are talking nearly ten years with Carter and Richie. They gave up UFA status in their prime years. Oh well.
I guess thats why players dont usually give hometown discounts to teams. Richards and Carter did and they both got traded. I can understand why they would be upset.

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06-28-2011, 06:40 AM
  #249
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Your thinly veiled post assumes one thing; that the Flyers are definitely worse going forward, something you cannot know for two reasons:

1. It is impossible to know the future, both immediate and longterm, expecially in sports.

2. You don't have a clue what went on off-ice. If it was as bad as some of us suspect, they had no choice but to take the actions they did.
1. We can do our best, and I think our best guess is they are worse off.

2. Keep drinking that koolaid. I'm sure the Flyers management has every reason to tell fans that to make these deals look better. Reality is another story, however.

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06-28-2011, 11:47 AM
  #250
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I have alot of co-workers who are flyer fans, one in particular who is privy to inside info about the team at times.

No one saw this coming,
I would not be so sure of that.

Perhaps you should get to know a poster named Playmaker 26.

When the Flyers off season thread Part 1 started several weeks ago at DobberHockey, Playmaker posted that there was a huge shake up coming, that it definitely involved Carter and perhaps Richards as well. He posted that the Flyers were extremely unhappy with both of them. Their performance on ice and their behavior off it were being criticized by the Flyers. He was asked to verify his source inside the organization by the Mod, complied and things progressed from there.

The guy was lit up pretty good, but he called this entire thing, from it's very beginning, to the very end....to a tee and down to the last detail. Every move in advance. Where Richards and Carter were going, who was coming back.... and generally why the Flyers pulled the trigger.

I read and then re-read the thread. An amazing example of how social media works. I've never seen anything like it. After reading thru the thread, I'm of the opinion that the Flyers may have actually been behind the posts to some extent. This may have served as a way to get their side of the story out w/o blowing their cover or giving up too many less than flattering details.

I don't think the whole story is out there. It may never be, but my conclusion after reading the thread is that the Flyers organization thought this thru pretty carefully and did what they felt they had to do.

Kudos to them, IMO.

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