HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Detroit Red Wings
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Novice draft question: trading earlier picks for later ones?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
06-24-2011, 10:38 PM
  #1
MScoutsDCI
Registered User
 
MScoutsDCI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Detroit
Country: United States
Posts: 350
vCash: 500
Novice draft question: trading earlier picks for later ones?

Can someone explain the upside to what Detroit and Anaheim did? Why did they each trade away higher picks for lower picks?

MScoutsDCI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-24-2011, 10:45 PM
  #2
zecke26
Registered User
 
zecke26's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,287
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MScoutsDCI View Post
Can someone explain the upside to what Detroit and Anaheim did? Why did they each trade away higher picks for lower picks?
the last time they did that, holland explained, that they had a bunch of players on their list when it was their turn and they were sure to get one of them with the better one of the 2nd they get. so this way they get a player they had on their list and another one as extra.

only works if the draft is pretty even in terms of talent and this one seems to be that kind of draft. great top10 and then pretty deep with solid players, but not great ones. a lot of different characters, so each team can pick what they might need. there's no consensus picks anymore.

zecke26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-24-2011, 11:19 PM
  #3
Marky9er
Registered User
 
Marky9er's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Brampton ON
Country: Dominica
Posts: 5,398
vCash: 500
After the first 23 picks, they valued quantity over quality. It's a risk, and passing on Simon Despres the last time they did this looks pretty bad right about now.

Marky9er is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2011, 07:25 AM
  #4
Shoalzie
Registered User
 
Shoalzie's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Portland, MI
Country: United States
Posts: 14,183
vCash: 500
Not only at the Wings' original spot but we saw several projected 1st round picks slide to the 2nd round and considering you have a team like Ottawa with so many picks in the early rounds...that move made sense to me. I would've liked them to stay in and pick but trade down for two picks, it's one extra prospect to bring into the system...that's not a bad thing either. Curious to see who they get with these two picks...wouldn't be shocked if they snag at least one guy that was a first rounder on many mock drafts.

Shoalzie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2011, 07:28 AM
  #5
mindfly
KEN HOLLAND OUT
 
mindfly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Bloomfield Hills, MI
Country: Sweden
Posts: 8,822
vCash: 500
They don't go up on stage and select them like the 1st rounders right?

mindfly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2011, 07:33 AM
  #6
Shoalzie
Registered User
 
Shoalzie's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Portland, MI
Country: United States
Posts: 14,183
vCash: 500
They've got 4 hours slotted out for airing rounds 2-7 today on TV so I doubt they go through the same production for each pick going forward. It should move a lot faster.

Shoalzie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2011, 07:42 AM
  #7
NoIceAroundHere
Registered User
 
NoIceAroundHere's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Someplace too sunny
Country: Greece
Posts: 36
vCash: 500
I like what Ken did. After Murphy, Beaulieu and Klefblom were gone there was no strong DF prospect left and we will probably risk with some international player as has happened many times before. Or maybe some North American but there weren't many consensus picks left, that's for sure.

Knowing that Datsyuk was drafted at 171 and Zetterberg at 210 I guess we just got one more shot in going for a draft steal. Hard to say they're gonna find someone that will be THAT successful but they're just adding an extra opportunity for a diamond in the rough imo.

NoIceAroundHere is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2011, 08:19 AM
  #8
ProPAIN
I am the Danger!
 
ProPAIN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Paris
Country: Belgium
Posts: 12,094
vCash: 500
Nill said that there are still some guys on their list they would like so he's just trying to get two of them once their initial wish list was gone. He said "about half way down the draft", so I think once all those defensemen were being picked, Nill said, "**** it, let's get more prospects and one of them will probably stick in the future"

The only reason I was upset last night was I stayed up to see us pick in the 1st round. But I'm that was for like 2 minutes. The Wings aren't going to draft to entertain us. That's for the top 5 teams to do. They are there to build on the future. I'm sure at least 1 or 2 of our 9 picks are going to be decent. If all of them work out...holy ****

ProPAIN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2011, 08:21 AM
  #9
mindfly
KEN HOLLAND OUT
 
mindfly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Bloomfield Hills, MI
Country: Sweden
Posts: 8,822
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProPAIN View Post
Nill said that there are still some guys on their list they would like so he's just trying to get two of them once their initial wish list was gone. He said "about half way down the draft", so I think once all those defensemen were being picked, Nill said, "**** it, let's get more prospects and one of them will probably stick in the future"

The only reason I was upset last night was I stayed up to see us pick in the 1st round. But I'm that was for like 2 minutes. The Wings aren't going to draft to entertain us. That's for the top 5 teams to do. They are there to build on the future. I'm sure at least 1 or 2 of our 9 picks are going to be decent. If all of them work out...holy ****
Or they could have just moved up and grabbed that one guy they were high on then return to the draft for the latest rounds.

I wonder how far they could have moved up with Nyquist+their 1st+their 2nd, and got that future blueline star instead of bulking up with these mid-level prospects in the farm

mindfly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2011, 08:43 AM
  #10
YGH*
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 94
vCash: 500
It's all so simple now. What was Holland thinking? Thank you mindfly.

YGH* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2011, 08:58 AM
  #11
Th3 HoMeR 96
Registered User
 
Th3 HoMeR 96's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: SL, Michigan
Country: United States
Posts: 98
vCash: 500
I feel like Kenny grabbed the extra pick because hes got some sort or trade coming up today. Could i be right?

Th3 HoMeR 96 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2011, 09:00 AM
  #12
mindfly
KEN HOLLAND OUT
 
mindfly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Bloomfield Hills, MI
Country: Sweden
Posts: 8,822
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Th3 HoMeR 96 View Post
I feel like Kenny grabbed the extra pick because hes got some sort or trade coming up today. Could i be right?
No you couldn't, holland's phone isn't working until July 15th or something.

mindfly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2011, 09:02 AM
  #13
YGH*
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 94
vCash: 500
Howard+Smith+Hudler+1st for CAREY PRICE!

YGH* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2011, 09:03 AM
  #14
mindfly
KEN HOLLAND OUT
 
mindfly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Bloomfield Hills, MI
Country: Sweden
Posts: 8,822
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by YGH View Post
Howard+Smith+Hudler+1st for CAREY PRICE!
Too bad Montreal wouldn't accept that trade.

mindfly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2011, 09:13 AM
  #15
YGH*
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 94
vCash: 500
They would make an exception for you.

YGH* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2011, 09:41 AM
  #16
pokerandpucks
Rookie User
 
pokerandpucks's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: GR area
Country: United States
Posts: 268
vCash: 500
Last 10 #24 overall picks, 3 busts, 2 or 3 guys the jury's still out on, 4 or 5 guys who are legit players now, so at best 70% success rate.

Lukas Krajicek, Alex Steen, Mike Richards, Chris Chuko, TJ Oshie, Semeyon Varlemov, Mikael Backlund, Mathias Tedenby, Marcus Johansson, Kevin Hayes

Wings 2nd rounders since 2000

Jarnkrok, Ferraro, Tatar, Emmerton, Matthias, Axelsson, Abdelakder, Howard, Hudler, Fleishmann, Grigorenko, Kopecky.

Grigorenko was a bust because of the car wreck, Axelsson might still be an NHL player. Emmerton will be int he NHL this year, I have no doubt that Tatar won't be at least a second line scorer if he stays healthy. If you take Jarnkrok and Ferraro out because it's too early to tell with either, they got 8 NHL players, plus one who still could be, in 10 picks. Detroit does better in the second than the NHL as a whole does with #24.

I'm excited about these 3 picks.

pokerandpucks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-26-2011, 10:15 PM
  #17
Octopus
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 225
vCash: 500
The Wings have Bertuzzi, Holmstrom, Hudler, Kronwall and Stuart as UFAs next year and I doubt any of the second rounders can replace them yet. Filling the cupboard with mediocre prospects is not helping the Wings right now. Only Kindl and Smith, (1st rounders) will make the team. They need higher picks and get into the 10-15 range in the first to get some quality prospects. The only second round pick who will make the NHL is Tatar and I don't think he'll be more than a 50 point player, much like Hudler. I understand they believe in developing their players and leaving on the farm for 4-5 years but lets be realistic, Helm and Abdelkader, their most recent graduates arn't going to rack up many points in their careers and will never be top 6 forwards. Jimmy Howard is the only second round pick is the only one who might be in the top third in the league in his position. He still has a ways to go.

Octopus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-27-2011, 09:42 AM
  #18
pokerandpucks
Rookie User
 
pokerandpucks's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: GR area
Country: United States
Posts: 268
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Octopus View Post
The Wings have Bertuzzi, Holmstrom, Hudler, Kronwall and Stuart as UFAs next year and I doubt any of the second rounders can replace them yet. Filling the cupboard with mediocre prospects is not helping the Wings right now. Only Kindl and Smith, (1st rounders) will make the team. They need higher picks and get into the 10-15 range in the first to get some quality prospects. The only second round pick who will make the NHL is Tatar and I don't think he'll be more than a 50 point player, much like Hudler. I understand they believe in developing their players and leaving on the farm for 4-5 years but lets be realistic, Helm and Abdelkader, their most recent graduates arn't going to rack up many points in their careers and will never be top 6 forwards. Jimmy Howard is the only second round pick is the only one who might be in the top third in the league in his position. He still has a ways to go.
Octo, you're getting cranky and pessimistic in your old age.

Tatar might end up as a 50 point guy, but that's probably his floor. His ceiling is 80. I saw the kid play a few times last year in GR, he's going to be good. Think Hudler without the size and speed issues. He'll be up next year to replace Homer. Nyquist has plenty of skill as well. If he has a good year and can beef up to 18 or so he'll have a chance of making the NHL roster depending on how many forwards leave and who they can get in free agency.

I think there's going to be a year or two coming up where they will be bringing up at least a couple guys before they have to bring them, either because a kid like Tatar or Nyquist forces his way onto the team or because they can't replace everyone in free agency or through trades.

Don't forget, they have plenty of cap space this year and will have more next year. A chunk of it will go to cover Kronwall's raise, and they'll have to plan on giving Howard a raise after his contract is up, but they'll have plenty of room to work with.

pokerandpucks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-27-2011, 11:05 AM
  #19
Octopus
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 225
vCash: 500
You must be thinking of another Octo. I'm much younger than you think and much better looking. Lifelong Wings fan though I hope Tatar can score that many points. I've seen him play 4-5 gamee with GR. He was their own second round pick two years ago. My point is I don't agree with this trading down business. Would you rather have Ashton Carter or Simon Despres, Chris Summers and Matt Puempel (rated best pure scorer in this year's Draft) instead of Emmerton, Matthias, Ferraro, Nestrasil, Jurco, and Ouellet? The picks they traded will defintley play in the NHL. Of those they received, the best one they traded, Matthias to FLA for Bertuzzi. The rest will not represent better value making the three occasions they've traded down worth it. I believe over time the picks they traded will be overall better NHL players.
Despres and Carter have already played with Canada's junior team, Puempel likely will this year. Chris Summers is about to play although the jury's still out on him. I guess time will tell.

Octopus is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:00 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.