HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Ottawa Senators
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Top 20 prospects?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
06-26-2011, 10:09 AM
  #51
Pietraneglo222
WwWwW
 
Pietraneglo222's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Gatineau
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,271
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoreGore View Post
When a Blue Chip prospect gets traded for a 3rd rounder, something tells me that he is a bust. I will not argue his skillset which are top notch, but there is something that keeps him from the NHL, and it likely rests between his ears.

My prediction is that he will get a real shot here in Ottawa, and we will know by Christmas if he will boom or bust. I want him to succeed, that is for sure.

As for being 25th on the propects list, he won't be there, now that he was traded for a 3rd. The same can be said for Grachev who just got traded for a 3rd as well.
The HF prospect list was made like 3 months ago or something. His trade trade value has no impact on his actual skills either. I don't think you have an argument here.

I try not to rely on HF should I have an informed opinion or another source. I think I need to disclose that should Fuhr accuse me of being a dumb hypocrite homer.

Pietraneglo222 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-26-2011, 10:15 AM
  #52
Cujomi
YNWA
 
Cujomi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,248
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoreGore View Post
So I guess Filitov is now our number 1 guy

Cowen is clearly the guy with more value, and is thus the better prospect. He was drafted higher in a draft that had good top end talent, and has proven his worth. Peumpel could turn out better, but guys like O'Brien and Foligno were drafted in the 20+ range as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lafite View Post
But he is newer and shinier. There is every reason to be optimistic about our new crop of kids, but optimism trumps reality some times.
Oh yeah, he was drafted higher and therefore will be the better player. What was I thinking? Cowen has done so much since his draft year to prove that he's obviously much, much better and has more potential than a guy like Puempel. I mean he's already practically a potential Norris candidate right?

Cujomi is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-26-2011, 10:20 AM
  #53
Pietraneglo222
WwWwW
 
Pietraneglo222's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Gatineau
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,271
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CPhoenixM View Post
Oh yeah, he was drafted higher and therefore will be the better player. What was I thinking? Cowen has done so much since his draft year to prove that he's obviously much, much better and has more potential than a guy like Puempel. I mean he's already practically a potential Norris candidate right?
He's only won the memorial cup AND the calder cup...

Pietraneglo222 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-26-2011, 12:36 PM
  #54
wubwubwubwub
What, Me Worry?
 
wubwubwubwub's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 13,172
vCash: 500
1) Cowen- Almost a guarantee as a top 4 D, IMO. Our safest bet with the highest upside.
2) Rundblad- At worst, he is a semi-physical offensive D-Man who can run the powerplay and give us a great bottom pairing offensive threat. He has sick potential and just needs some defensive work.
3) Zibanejad- He could end up as the best #2C we've ever had. He's basically good at everything and his offensive skills should become more clear after this season.
4) Lehner- It is easy to get excited about this kid. He tore up the playoffs and was okay for the big club. He could end up being our most important player but I'm not ready to anoint him a sure thing.
5) Butler- I love this kid. I think he will be a good 2nd liner for years to come. The only question I really have is will be be a 20 goal scorer or a 30 goal scorer?
6) Noeson- By all accounts he's really picked up the pace of his game over the past two years, and I think when you look at it closely he might be the most intriguing player from this draft. I wrestled with Noeson, Puempel, and Silfverberg (aren't those 3 interesting spelled names) at this spot and I didn't just put Noeson because of the slot he was selected at-- I really think he could be a player who motors this team through a cup run.
7) Puempel- The kid knows how to score. His hands are sick close to the net and everywhere else, he just see's the offensive zone well. He is a bit of a risk due to his speed, his hip, and his speed after his hip, but I think if he works hard and gets a good break medically he will surely be a hell of a player for us.
8) Silfverberg- Here's a guy I can't believe I have slotted so low. Hell of a player. He's got a slightly ineffective but often devastating wrister, and at least he aims for the corners rather than the chest, unlike some two way, grinding forwards we know. He has all the components of a hell of a 2nd liner, and I would have put him above Puempel if didn't think Puempel had the slight amount of offensive upside above Silfverbergs that is just enough to bump him from a great 2nd liner to a good 1st liner.
9) O'Brien- Here's my surprise pick. This kid put up an amazing season with such little fanfare, it amazes me. The growth he experienced was incredible and he showed that he can be a valuable top 6er or bottom 6er in the future. Obviously he won't match last years improvement, but I think this kid is a semi-rare case where a prospect lacks work ethic, is shown the cold hard truth, and responds in a way that turns what used to simply be laziness into a huge blessing in disguise. I think this kid developed a work ethic that he never would have had if he wasn't so damn lazy by contrast. I expect him to come in next year and seriously compete for a bottom 6 job. If he doesn't get it, he will be a leader in the AHL and depending on where he plays, I believe he could go ppg in the minors while being a useful and versatile call up for the Sens. I think he has a very good chance at being a 40 point 2-way, Chris Kelly blend kind of guy.
10) Wiercioch- He has grown to be quite forgotten and ignored due to the success of others, exciting new prospects, and a mostly disappointing season. That being said, he seemed to really pick up the pace as the year went on and it showed in his successful Senators stint and stable, although disappointing offensive, post-season in Bingo. I still think he has very good potential, and I would have had him higher if I thought he figured heavily into our future plans... I don't believe that, however.
11) Stefan Da Costa
12) Mark Borowieki
13) Shane Prince
14) Colin Greening
15) Kaspars Daugavins
16) Eric Gryba
17) Andre Petersson
18) Mike Hoffman
19) Mark Stone
20) Marcus Sorenson

I didn't include Filatov because I forgot about him till 8 and its hard to just insert someone into a list, but I would probably have him around 4-6.

wubwubwubwub is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-26-2011, 01:04 PM
  #55
MoreGore
Registered User
 
MoreGore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 2,198
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Immanuel View Post
The HF prospect list was made like 3 months ago or something. His trade trade value has no impact on his actual skills either. I don't think you have an argument here.

I try not to rely on HF should I have an informed opinion or another source. I think I need to disclose that should Fuhr accuse me of being a dumb hypocrite homer.
IMO his trade value is a direct indicator of his chance to be a player. No manager would trade Kadri for a 3rd, nor Cowen, nor Butler, nor Wiercioch. Why? Because those guys are better prospects.

Filitov is a Hail Mary. 5% chance he becomes what people though he would become. Blue Chip prospects are never traded for 3rd rounders.

MoreGore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-26-2011, 01:09 PM
  #56
MoreGore
Registered User
 
MoreGore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 2,198
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CPhoenixM View Post
Oh yeah, he was drafted higher and therefore will be the better player. What was I thinking? Cowen has done so much since his draft year to prove that he's obviously much, much better and has more potential than a guy like Puempel. I mean he's already practically a potential Norris candidate right?
I never claimed he would be a better player. I claim that Cowen is a better prospect.

Would you have traded Cowen for the 20th pick in the 2011 draft last week? Of course not.

Is Peumpel vastly under rated? No, he was drafted pretty much where people expected.

Perhaps you don't like Cowen, and you really like Peumpel, which is fine, but most people would disagree.

MoreGore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-26-2011, 01:10 PM
  #57
Rumcajs
Registered User
 
Rumcajs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,214
vCash: 500
Here is my list. What do you think they will rate Zibanejad, Puempel and Noesen on HF scale? Im guessing Zibanjed 8.0 C, Noesen 7.5 C, Puempel 7.0 C.


1. Rundblad
2. Cowen
3. Lehner
4. Zibanejad
---------------Insert Filatov if Necessary.
5. Weircioch
6. Silfverberg
7. Butler
8. Noeson
9. Puempel
10. Da Costa
11. Gryba
12. Stone
13. O'Brien
14. Borowiecki
15. Petersson
16. Grant
17. Blood
18. Caporusso
19. Sorensen
20. Daugavins


Last edited by Rumcajs: 06-26-2011 at 01:42 PM.
Rumcajs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-26-2011, 01:20 PM
  #58
Pietraneglo222
WwWwW
 
Pietraneglo222's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Gatineau
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,271
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoreGore View Post
IMO his trade value is a direct indicator of his chance to be a player. No manager would trade Kadri for a 3rd, nor Cowen, nor Butler, nor Wiercioch. Why? Because those guys are better prospects.

Filitov is a Hail Mary. 5% chance he becomes what people though he would become. Blue Chip prospects are never traded for 3rd rounders.
I don't mean to be rude but this is a really stupid way to think. It's just completely irrelevant what he was traded for because it has no impact on anything. If he was good before the trade he'll be good after the trade.

Not to mention Howson let him go simply because he asked to be traded. Like Heatley his value dropped because he asked to be traded.

Pietraneglo222 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-26-2011, 01:21 PM
  #59
Pitlick*
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,134
vCash: 500
Everyone has Butler too high. He's a nice player, can help at 2nd line for a few years I hope, but he's 24, I think, so his upside isn't as high as the 18-20 year olds, guys like Noesen, Puempel, and Silfverberg.

Pitlick* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-26-2011, 02:23 PM
  #60
lafite
 
lafite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,226
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pitlick View Post
Everyone has Butler too high. He's a nice player, can help at 2nd line for a few years I hope, but he's 24, I think, so his upside isn't as high as the 18-20 year olds, guys like Noesen, Puempel, and Silfverberg.
You might be right, but Butler has shown that he can play at a pretty good level in the NHL whereas those other guys haven't yet. That thing about a bird in the hand might apply.

lafite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-26-2011, 02:30 PM
  #61
BeerandHockey
╚(Ž_Ž)╝
 
BeerandHockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: BAR_B_Q_HAVEN
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,134
vCash: 500
I am not gonna bother ranking a top 20, I just want to say that at this time last year everyone said that Ottawa's forward prospect pool lacked skill and depth.

Now 1 year later, Ottawa adds skill with:
Zibanejad
Noesen
Puempel
Prince
Pageau
Filatov
Da Costa

And depth with:
Potulny
W. Hamilton
McCormick
Dzingel
Kramer
also Cannon (can't seem to find him on any roaster or prospect chart, did he only sign a tryout?)

13 forwards added in 1 year and 7 are of the skilled variety

BeerandHockey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-26-2011, 05:58 PM
  #62
German Senator
Registered User
 
German Senator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Germany
Country: Germany
Posts: 287
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Praise Alfie View Post
I am not gonna bother ranking a top 20, I just want to say that at this time last year everyone said that Ottawa's forward prospect pool lacked skill and depth.

Now 1 year later, Ottawa adds skill with:
Zibanejad
Noesen
Puempel
Prince
Pageau
Filatov
Da Costa

And depth with:
Potulny
W. Hamilton
McCormick
Dzingel
Kramer
also Cannon (can't seem to find him on any roaster or prospect chart, did he only sign a tryout?)

13 forwards added in 1 year and 7 are of the skilled variety
Cannone signed a one year entry level contract. He will probably start the year in Bingo. I think he could be a surprise. He played two regular season games in Bingo and scored a goal and an assist. He is already 25 years old. Maybe he has a similar season to Greenings this year. Binghamton will have a darn good team next year. I am looking forward to a long playoff run again.

German Senator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-26-2011, 07:03 PM
  #63
MoreGore
Registered User
 
MoreGore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 2,198
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Immanuel View Post
I don't mean to be rude but this is a really stupid way to think. It's just completely irrelevant what he was traded for because it has no impact on anything. If he was good before the trade he'll be good after the trade.

Not to mention Howson let him go simply because he asked to be traded. Like Heatley his value dropped because he asked to be traded.
Obviously we completly disagree on what Filitov. I'm ok with that, but to call my reasoning stupid, is in fact rude.

Do you think that he will blossom under McLean here in Ottawa? What chance do you give him to blossom and why?

I am going on the fact that he was just traded for a 3rd rounder, and he has shown little to no progress in the last 2 years tells me the bloom is off this rose.

The fact that he was traded for a 3rd rounder does tell us what his value is. Murray was the only GM to even ask about him. Why? Because Ottawa can afford to take a chance on this kid. It is a Hail Mary play. No risk, high return.

MoreGore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-26-2011, 07:11 PM
  #64
thalegion
Registered User
 
thalegion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,996
vCash: 500
Mad Respect

Great draft Ottawa fans, should help be a cornerstone for the rebuild, I love being able to talk to a fanbase i'm completely neutral with

thalegion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-26-2011, 08:22 PM
  #65
Micklebot
Registered User
 
Micklebot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 6,081
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoreGore View Post
Obviously we completly disagree on what Filitov. I'm ok with that, but to call my reasoning stupid, is in fact rude.

Do you think that he will blossom under McLean here in Ottawa? What chance do you give him to blossom and why?

I am going on the fact that he was just traded for a 3rd rounder, and he has shown little to no progress in the last 2 years tells me the bloom is off this rose.

The fact that he was traded for a 3rd rounder does tell us what his value is. Murray was the only GM to even ask about him. Why? Because Ottawa can afford to take a chance on this kid. It is a Hail Mary play. No risk, high return.
Not really. There are lots of situations where GM's have not gotten full value for a player.

For Example:

Heatley to San Hose,
Thorton to San Hose,
Luongo to Vancouver
St. Louis trades Chris Pronger to Edmonton Oilers for Eric Brewer, Jeff Woywitka and Doug Lynch,
Winnipeg Jets traded Kris Draper to the Detroit Red Wings for one US dollar,
Jaromir Jagr traded with Frantisek Kucera from the Pittsburg Penguins to the Washington Capitals for Kris Beech, Ross Lupaschuk and Michal Sivek,
Jaromir Jagr traded from the Washington Capitals to the New York Rangers straight up for Anson Carter

As another example, Burke waived Bryzgalov. Was he worthless? Most people knew he had potential as a starter, and that he was quite a good back-up, but Burke couldn't find a trading partner.

I'm sure we could fill an entire thread with trades where a GM did not get full value for the player he sent off. Sometimes there are reasons beyond how likely the player is to succeed, like in the case of Heatley, but other times GM's can just do some thing stupid, like most of Milbury's trades.

The point, I guess, is that the odds are highly in favour of Filatov being better than a third round pick from this years draft, and that just because he was traded for a third, doesn't mean that he is any worse a prospect.

Micklebot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-26-2011, 08:27 PM
  #66
DJB
Sens best prospect
 
DJB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,839
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CPhoenixM View Post
Oh yeah, he was drafted higher and therefore will be the better player. What was I thinking? Cowen has done so much since his draft year to prove that he's obviously much, much better and has more potential than a guy like Puempel. I mean he's already practically a potential Norris candidate right?

And what has Peumpel accomplished which makes him a better prospect? Nothing!

Cowen: 1 Mem Cup. 1 Calder Cup. Best defenceman on Spokane and arguably in the WHL this year. Has been on two WJC teams including playing on the top 4 last year.

Peumpel has nothing on Cowen.

But maybe because he is shiny and new that's why you like Peumpel more?

DJB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-27-2011, 03:53 PM
  #67
MoreGore
Registered User
 
MoreGore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 2,198
vCash: 500
MoreGore's Top 20 for Ottawa

1) Rundblad - High end skill, SEL domination proves it
2) Cowen - Top end physical shut-down guy. AHL Calder cup journey proves how close he is.
3) Lehner - Top end goalie prospect, with an AHL MVP trophy in his back pocket
4) Zibanejad - 6th pick overall, Bobby Holik style player
5) Silverberg - 20 year old 2nd line winger near ready to play in Ottawa
6) Butler - 24 year old skill winger, looking to become a 2nd liner in the NHL
7) Wiercioch - 20 year old bean pole defender with good skill, needs to mature to make the NHL
8) Noeson - 21st pick, decent size and skill level, hopes to be a 2nd line scorer
9) Peumpel - 25th pick, skilled mid sized sniper, hopes to be a scorer.
10) Nikita Filatov - Super Skilled, 21 year old small forward that need to mature. Hail Mary pickup
11) Greening - AHL rookie with size and speed. 3rd line spot is open for him
12) Condra - AHL 2nd year pro. Mid sized, slowish, but a real good hockey IQ. Slower Kelly
13) Stephane Da Costa - 21 year old NCAA Free Agent, smallish, but skilled. Top 6 or bust
14) Eric Gryba - AHL defender, solid in his zone, looking to jump to NHL soon.
15) Mark Boroweiki - NCAA call up surprised in AHL Calder Cup run, looks like a 5-6 Dman
16) O'Brien - former first rounder trying to make it as a grinder.
17) Shane Prince - 61st pick mid sized but gifted scorer, need to prove he can do it without Toffoli
18) Andre Peterson - Small skilled scoring winger, but has a bumb back and suspect defense
19) Marcus Sorensen - '10 late pick put up good numbers in Swedish Juniours, looking to the SEL
20) Mark Stone - '10 Late pick, Big winger, with 106 points in the WHL. Can he skate?
21) Mike Hoffman - '10 QMJHL MVP, had trouble adjusting to AHL, but was solid in the playoffs

Others Wacey Hamilton, Derek Grant, Chris Wideman, Ben Blood, Michael Sdao, David Dziurzynski, Louie Caporusso, Roman Wick, Pat Cannone and all the late 2011 picks.
Interesting to note that from the above list of 21, 8 have already played in the NHL

MoreGore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-27-2011, 04:30 PM
  #68
N Bahn Ahden
Registered User
 
N Bahn Ahden's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,203
vCash: 500
These are always hard to do. If I tried to do one tomorrow, without looking at this post, I'd probably come up with a slightly different list. It's also remarkable the depth. A lot of these guys will graduate from the list this year.

1) Rundblad
2) Cowen
3) Lehner
4) Zibanejad
5) Filatov
6) Silfverberg
7) Butler
8) Noesen
9) Puempel
10) Wiercioch
11) Greening
12) Condra
13) Da Costa
14) Peterson
15) Gryba
16) O'Brien
17) Prince
18) Borowiecki
19) Stone
20) Sorensen
21) Pageau
22) Daugavins
23) Wick
24) Blood
25) Caporusso

N Bahn Ahden is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:15 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.