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If we get Richards, our first line LW should be Dubinsky

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Old
06-27-2011, 12:58 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by Chalfdiggity3 View Post
You talk about that 4th line like it wasnt successful.. Wolski with Boyle and Prust actually had the most offensive pressure in the playoffs and scored the most pts on our team. I know its not saying much but i think it shows that Wolski wants to be here, and seems like a changed man, especially since hes getting skating lessons from Underhill.
They also faced the opposition's worst defenders.

Quote:
So my thinking is this...

Wolski Richards Gaborik
Dubi Anisimov Cally
Hagelin/Avery - Stepan - Thomas/Blank
Feds - Boyle - Prust
Wolski-Richards-Gabork...yikes. Top pairing defensemen on other team's would run wild over that line. Absolutely zero physical presence there.

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My thinking is that you HAVE to spread out your scoring otherwise we AGAIN become a one line team.
I don't agree with that. Callahan and Anisimov don't need Dubinsky to be successful offensively, especially if they are a real second line facing lesser defense.

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Originally Posted by Chalfdiggity3 View Post
But i wonder, what happened to him during the playoffs? He became what he has been, a broken down player who doesnt have what it takes anymore to go through a full 82game season and then the playoffs. The guy ran out of gas after 29 games. Not interested anymore, plus he blocks room and development from our other players who may be ready to come up.
I don't think he ran out of gas, I just think the Rangers ran into a much better team. And I'm not sure which players he's blocking, unless you mean that the 2nd line LW spot should be Boyle's or MZA's, which is a valid possibility.

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Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
I do agree, to a certain extent. With Richards I think you can put anyone with him - and stick to it. With Gaborik, he's babied. He constantly is having guys shuffled in and away from him to see what "works best", when in reality he should be like Richards and make everyone around him better.

It is a little bit different though considering one is a playmaking center and the other sniper on the wing. A little apples and oranges, but in the event that Gaborik DOESNT fit with Richards... then i expect the offense to still be a little wacky and in that case we may still be seeing Torts switch up the lines often.

Hopefully there isnt a need for that.
I think it's a lot different. Gaborik has guys shuffled in and away because, again, the team is horrible offensively and has practically no offensive skill or talent. Gaborik can't make players around him better aside from the possibility of drawing coverage. Since he should hardly ever be touching the puck unless he's about to shoot it, he can't really do much to help other players.

If Gaborik and Richards don't work together, they'll be separated...for a time. It won't be long before they will be brought back together again.

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06-27-2011, 01:07 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
I do agree, to a certain extent. With Richards I think you can put anyone with him - and stick to it. With Gaborik, he's babied. He constantly is having guys shuffled in and away from him to see what "works best", when in reality he should be like Richards and make everyone around him better.

It is a little bit different though considering one is a playmaking center and the other sniper on the wing. A little apples and oranges, but in the event that Gaborik DOESNT fit with Richards... then i expect the offense to still be a little wacky and in that case we may still be seeing Torts switch up the lines often.

Hopefully there isnt a need for that.
Hopefully if Prospal is healthy all year we'll see him and Gaborik click the way they did the season before. That would free us up to have Richards on another line, and elevate the production of other players.

Everyone seems to be assuming that Richards and Gaborik will de jure play together, while I don't know that that's the case. Zetterberg and Datsyuk frequently play on different lines, as do Crosby and Malkin, and Ovechkin and Semin. Maybe we could see something like this:

Dubinsky - Richards - Callahan
Prospal - Stepan - Gaborik
Hagelin/Fedotenko - Anisimov - MZA
Fedotenko/Hagelin - Boyle - Prust

That would make it impossible for a single top defense pair to be matched up against both Richards and Gaborik, allowing one of them to prey on weaker defenders.

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Old
06-27-2011, 01:08 PM
  #53
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I really hope that Anisimov and MZA are given some serious PP time this season (as long as MZA makes the team). Both have good skills.

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06-27-2011, 01:16 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by mullichicken25 View Post
yeah thas my only problem with the conecpt

i said that in response to his notion that he's not talented enough
LOL I know, I was trying to back your point.

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06-27-2011, 01:23 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
It's hard to underrate a player that only shows up to play 1 out of every in 4 games. 75% of the games he plays, it's like being shorthanded when he's on the ice because he doesn't do anything. I hope to never see him in a Rangers jersey again. No denying his talent, but he doesn't care, so he doesn't belong here.

The Prospal-Kovalev comparison is silly (although I'd bring back Kovalev, because Kovalev is still a better passer and playmaker than 95% of the players in the league today, if not more, and while he also doesn't care, he at least seems to try hard when playing with good players in important situations). Prospal scored 23 points in 29 games on a terrible offensive team missing its best all-around forward and probably second or third best offensive player, and this was after he missed the entire season and barely skated before beginning play.
I really don't think it's that he doesn't care, I just think it's that he knows how good he is and when he's given NO role, he goes into hibernation. Totally understandable and I'm on his side. We should've used him more. Also, I think a player should allowed to have a couple bad ones without beign totally denounced.
Gaborik, Avery, and Wolski fall under the "headcase" category, but I think all three should have their needs met as they would be highly successful.

I wasn't comparing Kovalev to Prospal, I as comparing one player with no legs to another when talking use of their hands.
I take Kovalev back anyday, best hands ever (AINEC).

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06-27-2011, 01:39 PM
  #56
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IMO Dubinsky is the perfect fit to play with Richards and Gaborik. He will add everything that the other 2 are lacking. I bet he scores 30 goals next year playing with them.

No to Wolski, our top line would be too soft. No one would be going into corners or driving to the net. If you move Boyle to the wing, I think his game is more suited to play with Anisimov and Callahan.

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06-27-2011, 01:39 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
They also faced the opposition's worst defenders.



Wolski-Richards-Gabork...yikes. Top pairing defensemen on other team's would run wild over that line. Absolutely zero physical presence there.



I don't agree with that. Callahan and Anisimov don't need Dubinsky to be successful offensively, especially if they are a real second line facing lesser defense.



I don't think he ran out of gas, I just think the Rangers ran into a much better team. And I'm not sure which players he's blocking, unless you mean that the 2nd line LW spot should be Boyle's or MZA's, which is a valid possibility.



I think it's a lot different. Gaborik has guys shuffled in and away because, again, the team is horrible offensively and has practically no offensive skill or talent. Gaborik can't make players around him better aside from the possibility of drawing coverage. Since he should hardly ever be touching the puck unless he's about to shoot it, he can't really do much to help other players.

If Gaborik and Richards don't work together, they'll be separated...for a time. It won't be long before they will be brought back together again.
Oh man sting do we really disagree here with about all of this. First off, just because they faced lesser defenders doesnt take anything away from them. They had been one of our most consistant lines all season long. Again, im going to say it one more time.. Players need to be put in the right positions in order to suceed in the nhl. when wolski is used in the right spot he is a good player (12pts - 18games).

Umm the defense would have to catch them first, frankly i dont see how any teams 1st pairing will do what your saying. That line is an EXTREMLEY skilled line and one that should be given a shot. Richards can then set up either Wolski or Gaborik for a shot.

If you dont agree with that then i dont know what to tell you, maybe you need to go back and watch last season over again. Without dubinsky on that line, that line fell apart, and no other line was able to establish any presence besides the Feds-Boyle-Prust line.

What you need to do is have more than 1 lethal scoring line. If we put Dubinsky with Richards and Gaborik you are making our team ALOT easier to play against just line last year where they only had to focus on one line. This way now they have to focus on not just stopping the Pack line but also the Richards-Gaborik line..

The caps were nowhere near the team that was much better. Better yes but not by much at all. They were a team that when we were healthy we beat game in and game out. The games were ALOT closer than your making it out to be. Regardless, this bit is about prospal and he was nowhere to be found at all. The guy has NOTHING left in the tank. Congrads to him for showing up to 29 nhl games. What happened to him the rest of the time? He was unnoticable, played without heart, has no physicality to his game, gets consistantly out muscled for pucks, and just does NOT have what it takes to go through a full NHL season.

Sorry id much rather try a 25yo 50pt winger who seems much different now than he did when he first came here. The guy is finally finding a niche here with friends (boyle) and understanding he needs to continue to work hard in order to be a player in the league. He is doing all of that and id like to see what hes got after a full training camp under torts. Wolski will have a turn around year this year. You can quote me on that if you want. But id rather use the space on other players than give a broken down prospal anymore time here.

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06-27-2011, 02:36 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by German Way of War View Post
Richards isn't a home-run pass kind of guy, so Dubi's speed wont come into play as much. He's like Savard in that he threads the needle in close traffic. I think WW can score 20-25 goals and his wing, and that is just fine.
Completely agree. Kind of like how Prospal/WW worked so well together at the end of this past season. If we don't buy out Wolski, he should definitely get top line consideration.

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06-27-2011, 03:59 PM
  #59
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I don't like Wolski and Gaborik being together. I'm not gonna call them lazy, but I'll put it this way; they lack fire. I want some more smash-mouth on that line.

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06-27-2011, 04:10 PM
  #60
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As long as Dubi is willing to commit to beign a first line guy. Sure when we say hes not 1st line guy were not saying he cant be on a line with a first line caliber linemate or line. So far hes shown to be 2nd line material in terms of production and skill. Again hes def capable of playing on a first line but he has to be willing to bring it every night, work to get points and goals consistently, and continue to play a grind style, using the board and whatnot, which is what he does best.

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06-27-2011, 04:11 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
I don't like Wolski and Gaborik being together. I'm not gonna call them lazy, but I'll put it this way; they lack fire. I want some more smash-mouth on that line.
That line would be way to soft and fragile, i cant see how anyone imagines that combination working. Maybe in a video game but even than. The games is won down low, between Gaborik and Wolski who is going to be doing the dirty work consistnely winnign battles, taking hits, and thereby making plays. Even Richards, how will get the puck in a spot to set someone up if someone else is not initiating contact, grabbing defenders and opening space i.e Dubi or even Avery. How can u watch hockey and not see this. What made Jagr line successfull is that Jagr knew to create space using his big body, he was comfortable with being leaned on and was strong enough to protect the puck. Straka although small was also a better puck protector than both Gaborik and W2. This is a big factor that allowed them puck possesion in the offensive zone to make plays, it does not just happen. Not to mention the timing, and space and chemistry they had. Realistically that line would be a failure.


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06-27-2011, 04:38 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by satrabyk View Post
That line would be way to soft and fragile, i cant see how anyone imagines that combination working. Maybe in a video game but even than. The games is won down low, between Gaborik and Wolski who is going to be doing the dirty work consistnely winnign battles, taking hits, and thereby making plays. Even Richards, how will get the puck in a spot to set someone up if someone else is not initiating contact, grabbing defenders and opening space i.e Dubi or even Avery. How can u watch hockey and not see this. What made Jagr line successfull is that Jagr knew to create space using his big body, he was comfortable with being leaned on and was strong enough to protect the puck. Straka although small was also a better puck protector than both Gaborik and W2. This is a big factor that allowed them puck possesion in the offensive zone to make plays, it does not just happen. Not to mention the timing, and space and chemistry they had. Realistically that line would be a failure.
Then you try someone else like you said like Boyle, Prust, Avery and so on. I dont believe putting Dubinsky on that line is a good idea. Yea it will make for one hell of a first line but then what does that mean for the rest of our lineup? It will lack balanced scoring AGAIN even with Richards. You need to spread out your scoring to 2-3 lines in order to get anywhere in the NHL. Keeping Dubinsky on the 2nd line with the Pack line, and actually having a 1st line will make us a MUCH MORE LETHAL team to play against bc then they will have to gameplan on defending not 1 but holy **** 2 lines lol.

Instead of fighting with each other, why dont we combine our two ideas and go with something like this..

Boyle Richards Gaborik
Dubi Anisimov Cally
Hagelin Stepan Feds
Prust Lindberg Avery

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06-27-2011, 04:45 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Chalfdiggity3 View Post
Then you try someone else like you said like Boyle, Prust, Avery and so on. I dont believe putting Dubinsky on that line is a good idea. Yea it will make for one hell of a first line but then what does that mean for the rest of our lineup? It will lack balanced scoring AGAIN even with Richards. You need to spread out your scoring to 2-3 lines in order to get anywhere in the NHL. Keeping Dubinsky on the 2nd line with the Pack line, and actually having a 1st line will make us a MUCH MORE LETHAL team to play against bc then they will have to gameplan on defending not 1 but holy **** 2 lines lol.

Instead of fighting with each other, why dont we combine our two ideas and go with something like this..

Boyle Richards Gaborik
Dubi Anisimov Cally
Hagelin Stepan Feds
Prust Lindberg Avery
I agree, id also rather Dubi be kept on the second line and help maintain 2 or 3 lines of offensive ability. But im saying W2 can not be there. I dont kno if Boyle the right guy, yes hes physical but i dont kno even with his unusual production last year if has the hands or hockey sense to play on the top line, nor does Prust. So it comes down to Avery, a rookie or a FA. I could see Feds if resigned being played on that line if there is no else as he may not put up big numbers but he could help Gaborik and Richards. I also agree Prospal is done and was essentially done 2 years ago despite the points he puts up. Hes just to slow.

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06-27-2011, 04:49 PM
  #64
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Anisimov-Callahan is still a very viable 2/3 of a line. Dubinsky didn't carry the line by himself...in fact, I think it can be argued when Callahan came back from his injury he was more important than Dubi to that line. Although their chemistry together is very good.

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06-27-2011, 04:50 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by satrabyk View Post
I agree, id also rather Dubi be kept on the second line and help maintain 2 or 3 lines of offensive ability. But im saying W2 can not be there. I dont kno if Boyle the right guy, yes hes physical but i dont kno even with his unusual production last year if has the hands or hockey sense to play on the top line, nor does Prust. So it comes down to Avery, a rookie or a FA. I could see Feds if resigned being played on that line if there is no else as he may not put up big numbers but he could help Gaborik and Richards.
I agree. Boyle had a great season last year. But we don't know if he'll be able to repeat that. I say keep Dubinsky with Callahan on the 2nd line.

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06-27-2011, 05:10 PM
  #66
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i would not do w2 on the first line.

3 reasons. first, dubi is not a centerman. period.

second, theres no one to go get pucks out of the corners for richards and gaby. i do not, and i repeat, do not want another year like last year where gaborik was trying to be playmaker and puck retriever. cant have it. richards will be the distributor. gaby the finisher. we need a guy like dubinski to do the dirty work, forecheck, finish checks and dig pucks out. hes the chase in dump and chase. without a guy like that on that line, theres not enough bone to go with the fillet.

third, wolski isnt a feature guy. hes a skilled guy but not really a top line guy. let him show off his skills and speed against 2nd pair dmen. his offensive ability gives us another weapon and makes that 2nd line that much more dangerous. i still think wolski has 25 goals in him especially playing with stepan and callahan.


dubi richards gaby- good blanced first line
w2 stepan cally-skill and grit
hagelin arty ftank- the ''eruo '' line. speed and smart defensive play
boyle lindberg prust- size and toughness

that might work

i like 2 rookies in the bottom 6. both rooks are smart defensive players.

i like the top 6. no rookies. all guys who can play alot of minutes and some nice balance of skill, scoring, grit and speed. both centers are playmakers while each line has a guy who can dig and score on the wings.

we are lacking that big power winger however. that might be a problem.

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06-27-2011, 05:13 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
i would not do w2 on the first line.

3 reasons. first, dubi is not a centerman. period.

second, theres no one to go get pucks out of the corners for richards and gaby. i do not, and i repeat, do not want another year like last year where gaborik was trying to be playmaker and puck retriever. cant have it. richards will be the distributor. gaby the finisher. we need a guy like dubinski to do the dirty work, forecheck, finish checks and dig pucks out. hes the chase in dump and chase. without a guy like that on that line, theres not enough bone to go with the fillet.

third, wolski isnt a feature guy. hes a skilled guy but not really a top line guy. let him show off his skills and speed against 2nd pair dmen. his offensive ability gives us another weapon and makes that 2nd line that much more dangerous. i still think wolski has 25 goals in him especially playing with stepan and callahan.

that like would work well together.

dubi richards gaby- good blanced first line
w2 stepan cally-skill and grit
hagelin arty ftank- the ''eruo '' line. speed and smart defensive play
boyle lindberg prust- size and toughness

that might work
I HIGHLY doubt Lindberg makes the team

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06-27-2011, 05:22 PM
  #68
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I HIGHLY doubt Lindberg makes the team
perhaps. i added him there for his dplay and faceoff ability. something we are sorely lacking. if not, we have flexibility.

i didnt even mention avery. who would be my 13th forward. hagelin can center line 4 or play on the wing on line 3. avery can play 4th line minutes while boyle moves back to the 4c.

alot of room to move guys around in that bottom 6.

im not a mza guy at all. havent even included him as i think he will struggle to make the team outa camp.

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06-27-2011, 06:54 PM
  #69
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I just thought of a great idea.. Idk if we have the cash to do this but IF we get Richards.. what if we offer sheet Parise to become his LW? We would have to buyout Wolski and Drury for this to become a remote possibility..

Dubinsky Richards Gaborik

Parise Anisimov Callahan

Hagelin Stepan Zucca/Avery

Feds Boyle Prust

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06-27-2011, 07:15 PM
  #70
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knowing Torts, Dubi, Wolski, and even Feds will all get a go with Richards and Gaborik. I kind of want to see Wolski there since he's in a contract year and has been able to do well when riding on the heels of all-star talent but seeing a home grown like Dubi elevate his game after signing a new contract will really be awesome and heart warming.

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06-27-2011, 07:30 PM
  #71
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Sign Anthony Stewart! He wasn't qualified.

Sign Konopka for the 4th line C spot.

Boyle-Richards-Gaborik
Dubinsky-Anisimov-Callahan
Hagelin-Stepan-Thomas/MZA
Fedotenko-Konopka-Prust
Avery

Staal-Girardi
McDonagh-Sauer
Erixon-Vet UFA/Valentenko/Pashnin/Kundratek/McIlrath

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06-27-2011, 08:14 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Chalfdiggity3 View Post
Oh man sting do we really disagree here with about all of this. First off, just because they faced lesser defenders doesnt take anything away from them. They had been one of our most consistant lines all season long. Again, im going to say it one more time.. Players need to be put in the right positions in order to suceed in the nhl. when wolski is used in the right spot he is a good player (12pts - 18games).
They were our most consistent line? I could have sworn it was Fedotenko-Boyle-Prust, not Wolski-Boyle-Prust. Wolski has been put in the right spot throughout his career, and sometimes he has shown up to play, and sometimes he hasn't. That's on no one but him. I'm not taking anything away from them, just pointing out the simple fact that when you play on a bottom six line, you aren't necessarily going to face the same defenders that you do when you play on a top six line, at least not as much, anyway. Your whole point is about putting him on the top line.

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Umm the defense would have to catch them first, frankly i dont see how any teams 1st pairing will do what your saying. That line is an EXTREMLEY skilled line and one that should be given a shot. Richards can then set up either Wolski or Gaborik for a shot.
No one values skill more than me, but ideally, skill needs to be complimented with some other elements, including a physical presence, especially when the skill you are talking about in this case is Gaborik and Richards, a couple of players that bring no physicality to the table. I'm certainly not advocating that you put some goon on the top line with Richards and Gaborik. Gretzky was special enough to have Semenko on his line. Most great offensive players, however, need a guy who can bring a combination of physicality and offensive ability, the way Dubinsky can. Wolski certainly cannot do that.

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If you dont agree with that then i dont know what to tell you, maybe you need to go back and watch last season over again. Without dubinsky on that line, that line fell apart, and no other line was able to establish any presence besides the Feds-Boyle-Prust line.
I'm not sure what you're talking about. If you mean Callahan and Anisimov, again, I STRONGLY disagree. For one, Callahan is the superior player to Dubinsky, and the latter needs the former more than the former needs the latter. You could put Dave Karpa and Dale Purinton on a line with Ryan Callahan and the line would still be productive, simply because anytime Callahan is on the ice, good things happen and the other team is guaranteed to have a much harder time doing anything.

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What you need to do is have more than 1 lethal scoring line. If we put Dubinsky with Richards and Gaborik you are making our team ALOT easier to play against just line last year where they only had to focus on one line. This way now they have to focus on not just stopping the Pack line but also the Richards-Gaborik line..
I think it's quite the other way around. By putting Dubinsky on the first line, you're giving the Rangers two lines to be feared. The line you are suggesting, Wolski-Richards-Gaborik, would be trampled. Any of the league's better defensive pairings would crush that line. They would be all over them and immediately trap both wings below the mid boards, and then rough them up, and Wolski would barely do any better with that than Gaborik. A line centered by Richards is one that is going to spend a lot of time in the offensive zone, and that's why you need a guy like Dubinsky or even a Boyle to be able to absorb some punishment below the goal line and in the corners. Wolski can't even decide to play every game, much less take that kind of punishment every shift, every game. You're significantly under appreciating the importance of having a physical presence for a duo like Richards and Gaborik.

Callahan and Anisimov are both such fundamentally sound players that you could put practically any forward with a modicum of offensive talent on their LW, and they'd be able to produce, especially because with Richards Dubinsky and Gaborik on the first line, the defensive attention wouldn't be focused as much on that second line.

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The caps were nowhere near the team that was much better. Better yes but not by much at all. They were a team that when we were healthy we beat game in and game out. The games were ALOT closer than your making it out to be. Regardless, this bit is about prospal and he was nowhere to be found at all. The guy has NOTHING left in the tank. Congrads to him for showing up to 29 nhl games. What happened to him the rest of the time? He was unnoticable, played without heart, has no physicality to his game, gets consistantly out muscled for pucks, and just does NOT have what it takes to go through a full NHL season.
Again, I have to highly disagree. The regular season games between the two clubs mean nothing, because in the playoffs, Washington was the better club, and in most of the games, by a significant margin. Also, what do you mean what happened to Prospal the rest of the time? They played 5 playoff games and lost to a better team, without Callahan in the lineup to boot. He looked about as futile offensively as everyone else on the team did, including Wolski.

Outbattled and out muscled for pucks? Physicality? That's not his job. Heck, that's Wolski EVERY game, but you're complaining about Prospal? No one is looking for those things out of Prospal. You keep Prospal around because he's easily the best playmaker on the team, and that's despite the fact that he can barely move.

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Sorry id much rather try a 25yo 50pt winger who seems much different now than he did when he first came here. The guy is finally finding a niche here with friends (boyle) and understanding he needs to continue to work hard in order to be a player in the league. He is doing all of that and id like to see what hes got after a full training camp under torts. Wolski will have a turn around year this year. You can quote me on that if you want. But id rather use the space on other players than give a broken down prospal anymore time here.
Maybe he will. I sure as heck hope so. But you're talking about a guy who already did the same thing you're talking about, and then **** the bed again. He came to Phoenix, played very well, and then went back to his old self. No one is denying his talent.

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Old
06-27-2011, 08:37 PM
  #73
Brendan Shanahan
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Boyle on the first line sounds like a fantastic idea actually.

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06-27-2011, 08:40 PM
  #74
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I think Chemistry is overrated in this instance. Players like Callahan, Dubinsky and Anisimov have chemistry with virtually everyone because of their style of play. When Stepan was put between Dubi and Cally that line didn't skip a beat, it arguably looked better.

Signing someone like Jokinen or Gagne is something I like because it gives you guys that have established themselves as good powerplay forwards, and they fill the top 6 out. On paper, if you add Jokinen/Gagne with Richards to our roster, that's a pretty solid squad that could make some noise in the playoffs.

There's no reason there won't be secondary scoring with a line like Jokinen/Gagne/Wolski-Anisimov-Callahan, then Boyle-Stepan-MZA, Avery-???-Prust

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06-27-2011, 08:42 PM
  #75
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Completely agree, Dubinsky will provide intangibles to that superstar line.

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