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Have another donut Koharski you fat........

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Old
10-18-2003, 04:50 PM
  #1
Stuy
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Have another donut Koharski you fat........

Worst ref'd game I've ever seen between the Thrasher and Hawks. PP we like 14-2 for Atlanta. Horrible calls on most of them.

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Old
10-18-2003, 04:57 PM
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Please. That was simply a pathetic showing by every one on the Blackhawks not named Steve Sullivan. Tons of silly penalties by the Blackhawks, three blatant cheapshots by Nichol, Bell, and Strudwick(who barrelled over Nurminen with 5 minutes left in the game for no reason whatsoever).

The game got out of hand early, and the Hawks simply lost their composure. They tried to push around the Thrashers, and it backfired.

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10-18-2003, 04:59 PM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by btn
Please. That was simply a pathetic showing by every one on the Blackhawks not named Steve Sullivan. Tons of silly penalties by the Blackhawks, three blatant cheapshots by Nichol, Bell, and Strudwick(who barrelled over Nurminen with 5 minutes left in the game for no reason whatsoever).

The game got out of hand early, and the Hawks simply lost their composure. They tried to push around the Thrashers, and it backfired.
Wrong it got out of hand in the 3rd after the 11th call against the Hawks. The rest were in the 1st two periods. I'm not saying the Hawks should have won but they were calling stuff that wasn't even there. Especially that call on Kovo breaking to the net. He fell down shooting the puck and we get called for tripping.

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10-18-2003, 05:08 PM
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It was over after the first. The Thrashers were dominating the game and all Chicago had to show for their efforts was a breakaway shorthanded goal late in the period. You can nitpick about the penalties all you want, most of them were just silly mistakes by the Hawks(at least two unsportsmanlike conduct penalties).

I liked how Hartley was screaming at Sutter after the Nurminen cheapshot.

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10-18-2003, 05:12 PM
  #5
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I was watching the Wings-Pens game so I didn't see the Hawks-Thrah game, but if you want to see a badly reffed game, it was the Wings-Pens. It was as if the league sent out a memorandum that the Pens were down to the last penny in the checking account and badly needed the first win. The penalties called against the Wings in the first period were so weak it was pathetic. What a joke.

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10-18-2003, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Ricci's hairdresser
I was watching the Wings-Pens game so I didn't see the Hawks-Thrah game, but if you want to see a badly reffed game, it was the Wings-Pens. It was as if the league sent out a memorandum that the Pens were down to the last penny in the checking account and badly needed the first win. The penalties called against the Wings in the first period were so weak it was pathetic. What a joke.
Wow, a bitter Wings fan who refuses to give the Pens credit for their hard work and blames everything on the refs.

Why am I not surprised?

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10-18-2003, 05:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Masao
Wow, a bitter Wings fan who refuses to give the Pens credit for their hard work and blames everything on the refs.

Why am I not surprised?
you are kidding, right?

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Old
10-18-2003, 05:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci's hairdresser
you are kidding, right?
no hes not, hes been ending all his posts with that line. Its covering all bases so he looks good.

If he can honestly say that was a game that was called evenly, id LOVE to know what he smoked before the game.

still not an excuse for the loss. but to hear there was another game reffed as bad as Detroits makes me feel a bit better.

its not just an isolated issue, the refs suck over all.

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10-18-2003, 05:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X8oD
no hes not, hes been ending all his posts with that line. Its covering all bases so he looks good.

If he can honestly say that was a game that was called evenly, id LOVE to know what he smoked before the game.

still not an excuse for the loss. but to hear there was another game reffed as bad as Detroits makes me feel a bit better.

its not just an isolated issue, the refs suck over all.
Please.

Tell me exactly where I said the calls were even?

Tell me, I'm really curious.

WHAT I WAS SAYING, was that the Penguins deserve credit for their hard work coming back in this game, but this guy refuses to give them any and instead just claims the refs handed the game to them.

Besides, there were a lot of non-calls on BOTH sides so it could well have gone either way.

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10-18-2003, 05:58 PM
  #10
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The Wings fans can cry all they want about the refs, but the calls were a moot point since the Pens only had one powerplay after being down 3-1.

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10-18-2003, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by tom_servo
The Wings fans can cry all they want about the refs, but the calls were a moot point since the Pens only had one powerplay after being down 3-1.
hey im not crying about the refs. They sucked, but its a terrible excuse. What bothers me about the referring is they set a tone by calling 5-10 penalties in 1 period, and then let the same things go for the rest of the game.

Im still looking for Hull and Shanny. They may have retired, but I havent found out yet.

If the wings didnt mail it in after they were up 3-1, Pens had no chance. but the Wings coasted, and the pens ate them up

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10-18-2003, 06:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X8oD
hey im not crying about the refs. They sucked, but its a terrible excuse. What bothers me about the referring is they set a tone by calling 5-10 penalties in 1 period, and then let the same things go for the rest of the game.

Im still looking for Hull and Shanny. They may have retired, but I havent found out yet.

If the wings didnt mail it in after they were up 3-1, Pens had no chance. but the Wings coasted, and the pens ate them up
Obviously I'm not singling you out, X8oD. I myself thought the refs were handicapping the game early on in our favor, but in the end it didn't seem to matter.

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Old
10-18-2003, 07:09 PM
  #13
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Another night, another night of blaming the refs. So predictable, so weak.

HF needs an "Excuses" board. Seriously.

Life is unfair. So are the calls, occasionally. Deal with it.

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Old
10-18-2003, 08:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X8oD
What bothers me about the referring is they set a tone by calling 5-10 penalties in 1 period, and then let the same things go for the rest of the game.
And if they had continued calling the game the same as in the first period, everyone would complain about the huge amount of penalties the refs called (see the other game threads tonight).

And if they had hardly called any penalties, then everyone would complain about all the missed calls, and how their team would have won if given some power play chances.

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10-18-2003, 08:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PecaFan
And if they had continued calling the game the same as in the first period, everyone would complain about the huge amount of penalties the refs called (see the other game threads tonight).

And if they had hardly called any penalties, then everyone would complain about all the missed calls, and how their team would have won if given some power play chances.
Well people complained anyways, so why bother trying to go either way?

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10-18-2003, 09:13 PM
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As the resident official at HF ( )...

All I have to say, is this...

How many of you who blame the officials for ruining your night, have ever officiated a hockey game?

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10-18-2003, 09:18 PM
  #17
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The only place where the refs screwed up tonight was in the missed calls. Every penalty I saw in the games I watched was deserved, and frankly I think some guys deserved harsher punishments than what they were given. This was a disgraceful night of NHL hockey in terms of the number of high sticks and cheap shots that were delivered.

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10-18-2003, 09:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Van
As the resident official at HF ( )...

All I have to say, is this...

How many of you who blame the officials for ruining your night, have ever officiated a hockey game?
Officials don't ruin my night, but they do ruin hockey games. Unless the newest league directive to increase scoring in the league is to play 1/2 the game on PP's with no flow to the game, then I don't see the point in what the refs are calling to start the season. I'm beyond blaming wins and losses on referees, but that doesn't mean that refs don't deserve criticism either. They get paid to do a job and when they do a job poorly, criticism is warranted. If they want to volunteer to ref, then that's a different situation entirely. When you get paid to do it, it's fair to expect a certain level of "competence" as well as criticism.

What I don't understand is why you always side with NHL referees like they are the victims. Surely you realize that every NHL ref doesn't think like you do? Right?

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10-18-2003, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Laperriere22
Officials don't ruin my night, but they do ruin hockey games. Unless the newest league directive to increase scoring in the league is to play 1/2 the game on PP's with no flow to the game, then I don't see the point in what the refs are calling to start the season. I'm beyond blaming wins and losses on referees, but that doesn't mean that refs don't deserve criticism either. They get paid to do a job and when they do a job poorly, criticism is warranted. If they want to volunteer to ref, then that's a different situation entirely. When you get paid to do it, it's fair to expect a certain level of "competence" as well as criticism.

What I don't understand is why you always side with NHL referees like they are the victims. Surely you realize that every NHL ref doesn't think like you do? Right?
Why would you expect an official to openly criticize other officials? There are a lot of calls that I disagree with, or would handle differently myself....but that doesn't mean I will go out and publically criticize them. For example, I lined a Midget B game tonight, and the referee missed a hell of a lot of stickwork during the game that I would have called...I knew it...but after the game when one coach politely asked me about it, I stepped up for my referee. The only person I would speak to negatively about my colleagues, are my supervisors.

And I am not arguing that officials should not be subject to criticism. The point I am trying to make, is that the fans who criticize the officials, for the most part, wouldn't know the first thing to do if they were handed a jersey and a whistle for a tykes game.

Officials of all levels are supervised, and they get their criticism by those above them who are qualified to tell them how to do their job. That being said, I realize that people will ***** and moan no matter what. I have yet to officiate an elite hockey game where I haven't heard any complaining about something.

All I try to do when I speak about officiating here at HF, is try to give you guys some opinions from an officiating standpoint. I just wish more of you would take it seriously instead of thinking, "he's a ref, he has to be wrong."

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10-19-2003, 06:30 AM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Van
Why would you expect an official to openly criticize other officials?
I expect that because in my mind, that gives your opinion more weight. It shows that you can call a spade a spade. For me personally, it always comes across as some sort of agenda from you because you always seem to argue one way. I'm not at all trying to be an ass about this either; just saying that's how I've always interpreted your posts on this subject. I can't speak for anyone else, but I would give much more credibility to your posts on this subject if you were known to both praise and criticize. Otherwise, refereeing just continues to come across as some little clique with a code of silence. Maybe that's just me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Van
And I am not arguing that officials should not be subject to criticism. The point I am trying to make, is that the fans who criticize the officials, for the most part, wouldn't know the first thing to do if they were handed a jersey and a whistle for a tykes game.
I know the point you're going for is along the lines "of walk a mile in a man's shoes" kind of thing. And I understand that. I just don't see much value in that point personally. Sure, I don't ref games. But, I have no interest in reffing games. Of course, I've never been a politician or a sports journalist either, yet I still find that I (along with many others) can criticize them as well. I don't see HF's writers standing up for Bruce Garrioch and telling people that they don't understand it because we haven't lived it. That's how it comes across to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Van
All I try to do when I speak about officiating here at HF, is try to give you guys some opinions from an officiating standpoint. I just wish more of you would take it seriously instead of thinking, "he's a ref, he has to be wrong."
I don't think you're wrong because you're a ref; I just feel you only tell one side of the story. And I say this knowing that I'm quite a ******* already. It begins to sound like propaganda after awhile. I don't expect you to start the criticism, but surely you've been watching NHL hockey this season right? You're going to tell me that all these calls (the good, the bad, and the no-calls) can be chalked up to just being human and making mistakes?

I don't have a problem with you trying to shut down the whole "a ref cost my team the game tonight" talk either. I don't believe refs determine wins or losses too often and I certainly don't believe they have it out for a team as I've seen plenty of posters suggest. That's just common sense as far as I'm concerned. But, there's a very fine line for me when it comes to the refs. When games start looking like special teams practice because a few too many borderline calls have been made, then it ruins the on-ice product. When the on-ice product starts to suffer, then I'm not going to look the other way and say the refs are human and the rest.

On a rather unrelated sidenote, I'm tired of the way the NHL handles itself regarding officiating. They send out directives telling refs to call more of a certain kind of penalty, which invariably leads to refs thinking they have to make those calls to keep their job, regardless of whether it happens in a game or not. Those directives, as far as I'm concerned, create a quota system and are counterproductive.

"Of course, that's just my opinion; I could be wrong." -Dennis Miller

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Old
10-19-2003, 06:39 AM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Van
I just wish more of you would take it seriously instead of thinking, "he's a ref, he has to be wrong."

Slightly off topic, but just for the record, you ARE blind, right? Isn't that one of the pre-requisites for officiating?
Seriously though, I didn't watch the DET/PIT game, but I have seen lots of inconsistancy both between games (which is to be expected, though it seems extreme this year) and within the games (which is what I think most, or atleast much of the criticism is about). I've seen ALOT of ticky-tack calls and alot of cheapshots that didn't get called in the same game. I've seen things called (like spraying the netminder) that I think could just as well have been let go, imo. And on the other spectrum you have crosschecks that injure a player occuring right in front of the ref tonight in one game I watched (PHI/PHX), and no penalty. There is a major lack of consistancy in what is and isn't being called (and everyyear it seems worse than the one before -- though this is probably simply b/c we don't remember all the bad calls from last year )
I respect the fact that each official is going to call a game differently, and that doesn't bother me. It's when the calls are so wildly inconsistant within the same 60 minute timeframe, that is so maddingly frustrating, as a fan or and as a player. And instead of saying, "they're just fans and players, they must be wrong" we could use a little sympathy

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