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06-28-2011, 07:57 AM
  #51
Patccmoi
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I'll go with the 'herd of brainless sheeps'. This argumentation is far too one-sided, takes things out of context and ignores everything positive that they had done, not to mention results, in order to bash management.

I didn't like all trades and all moves. But there is nothing 'objective' in your post. A lot of people seem to get confused between being objective and being negative/going 'against the masses'. That's just not what objectivity is.

And I also think people really fail in general in analyzing trades/acquisition/non-signing in the global context. Like, giving a 2nd for Moore and then not re-signing is a fail. But Moore helped us a lot the year he was there, and management considered that the team would be better using only 600k on Halpern in cap than something like 2M that Moore was asking to play here, and Halpern was actually very similar in the regular season. Moore was better in the playoffs sure, but that might be because we had to use Halpern totally out of the position we signed in for, while Eller was actually doing very well as 3rd line center (which Moore was in TB) and more importantly getting some really good experience. I wanted Moore resigned btw and I'm not all that happy that we let him go and I'm not saying it was a great move by management, but it wasn't terrible either. The reason we lost in the first round was not Halpern instead of Moore, it was missing MaxPac, Markov and Gorges. And going into next year, I'm happier with Eller as a 3rd center than Moore and would you pay 2M or a 4th line center?

The only thing that matters is "is the team improving" and what is best going FORWARD, not what we might have gained/loss in a particular trade. If it's better for the team going forward to not resign Wiz (not saying it is, but if that's what they analyze is better) then I DON'T CARE what we gave up for him, the important part is what makes the team better next year. And imo, it really is improving since Gauthier came here. I actually think up to now he does a lot better job than Gainey because Gainey was doing very dangerous trades giving quality assets (the Gomez one, Ribeiro, etc...) which in many cases did not pay off. Gauthier seems to have a clear plan, and he's following it and gradually improving the team, and while he's giving away some assets, he's not doing anything reckless, like say 1st and Tinordi for Penner (now THAT would've hurt).

And newsflash : making the playoffs is VERY IMPORTANT for an NHL team in terms of revenues. A 2nd round pick for them is a perfectly fine price to pay to make the playoffs, no matter if you lose the player you got for it later. Sure it's not perfect long term management, but there is absolutely no garantee that the 2nd round pick will help your team later while the rental allowing you to make the playoffs now is worth a lot of money for them. I'm sure that the owners have 0 problem whatsoever with the Moore or Wiz deal, as they allowed them to make a good amount of money. And that's true for every single team, a 2nd round pick for being able to take part in the playoffs instead of missing them is something any of them would do. As for the long term, while you do miss out on a player, I think that the playoff experience your youth get is also very important. Trust me : if Montreal goes 2-0 on the road against a team next year, they're not going to relax and joke and not take game 3 seriously as they seemed to have done this year (per Price's words). They'll remember this year, and they'll try to finish the jobs. The Bruins seemed like they learned from these mistakes they made in the previous years, and I'm not sure at all that they would've won 3 games 7 without it.

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Old
06-28-2011, 08:33 AM
  #52
Dirty Danglez
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Yes, of course I'm mad. I didn't want to get into it because this has been your position on management for a number of years. You're still very nostalgic over the old days, you bring them up at every opportunity when mentioning management. So, I feel it is utterly pointless to discuss this with you as your opinion is never going to change.

You say you call it the way you see it, but you can't even realize that you look at things from a pessimistic and negative way.

You criticize Gauthier for losing the 2nd rounder he gave up for Moore, and then losing him. But you don't even give him credit for going after Moore in the first place. He did not want to ink Moore for 2years, and so replaced him with a very cheap Halpern that ended up being a very suiting replacement. But hey, why mention that, we lost a damn 2nd round pick for someone that helped us a lot..Wait, we then lost that guy, so...ahhh what to think!! Let's just blame Gauthier.

You fail to give him credit for making moves throughout the season to adapt after injuries, like getting Sopel, Mara and Wiz. Instead you rather criticize him for the picks he lost in the process.
You point out that D'Agostini had a good year in St-Louis while Palushaj is doing good in Hamilton, as if it actually made that trade a bad one. Ya, Palushaj is doing well in Hamilton, he's only 21 and just finished a 57pt 68gp season with a 19pts in 19gp PO run. He could very well get called up throughout this season and see more ice time in the NHL. What's wrong with all that exactly?? Nothing is really wrong here, but D'Ago scored 21G in the NHL last year so there's obviously no point in waiting for Palushaj to show what he'll be capable of doing at 24 in the NHL. It was clearly a bad trade....: Did I also mention that St-Louis didn't qualify D'Ago?

Is Eller and Schultz a good enough return for Halak??? For Habsterix, the neutral, rational and observant man, of course not. I mean, it's not like the compensation for a RFA via offersheet for a player signed to Halak money would have been a 1st and a 3rd...Oh wait, yes it was. Eller and Schultz were not 1st and 3rd rounders?? I guess you forgot to think about that in your superb research because you were too busy just looking at the names exchanged.
And obviously, you forget to mention how Gauthier opted to keep Price instead of Halak. No, that's not worth talking about because it would require you actually giving management some Props. Nope, let's not do that. Let's just speculate, and question the fact we could have had more even though there's absolutely no example, none whatsoever, of goalkeepers being traded for better value. Matter of fact, Halak might be the keeper to have brought back the best return in recent years. Are you even aware of what Bryzgalov got the Yotes??? We're talking about a proven starter, that has maintained .920 Sv% over just under 70games on average teams for more than one year, and also stepped up in POs. I'll let you look it up since you seem to enjoy researching.

As for Boucher. If you respected Martin/Gauthier anywhere close to Boucher/Yzerman, you would be giving them credit instead of crapping on their every move. You absolutely praise TB for their success in the season and in the POs but fail to recognize their success in the POs was highly dependent of Roloson and St-Louis, very much like we counted on Halak and Cammy (maybe they had a little more contribution up front but they are an all out offensive team). They also got eliminated once Rollie came back to earth, like Halak did, but thanks to their better depth, they were able to last a bit longer. You praise Boucher for the jump in their regular season, but hey, it's not like they had Stamkos, Vinny, St-Louis, Hedman and Malone. They finished in the bottom 10 for GA, and actually had a worst ES GF/GA ratio than us despite us having three of our top 5 go through career lows, not having a top 6 most of the year and missing two key Dmen. Obviously, again, that would require you to give praise to Martin, but we all know you're incapable of that so you won't even dare giving him an ounce of merit, you'll give it to Price and Subban instead. In TB they have three bonafide superstars and they got through it thanks to them, but let's give credit to Boucher/Yzerman and forget to even mentioning their names.
Of course, C.Desjardins also needs to be brought up. I mean with his amazing contribution and all in TB, it really is a pity.

Yes, Habsterix, it really doesn't appear that you're holding a double standard here...

And while we're at it, might as well criticize management for losing the biggest key to our PP, Kirk Muller.. Yup, I seriously think we will drop down to the bottom part of the league now. Btw, didn't we struggled for a major part of the start of the season with our PP??..And weren't we part of the best PP teams the year before Muller joined??

Obviously, you can't see any good from management. I'm not mad, I don't really care, it's not like you're a new poster here so I knew this already. Pretty much why I kept my first post short and sweet . What I find funny however is that you actually seem to think your opinion is neutral and poised while other fans are overly optimistic.

There are very few rational posters on this board, and I hate to break it to you Habsterix, but you're not one of them.
I don't always like your posts... but this one is just golden! While not every move may be the right one, there are clearly rationals to every move made the past few years and they all make sense.

Only thing is Muller was a huge part of the habs PP success over the years and he will be sorely missed, but he wants to become a head coach... and he's not going to become one here so what is management supposed to do? Also I love how management doesn't get credit for HIRING Muller for so many years, and Martin doesn't get credit for keeping him when he was choosing his coaching staff.

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06-28-2011, 08:36 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Koseegin View Post
I'm just boggled by the fact that you think that a 2nd for Moore, a second for Wisniewski and Maxwell and a 4th for Sopel and Dawes are bad trades when you come on HF willing to trade the 17th overall pick and a chance to select Beaulieu for a top 9 forward in Troy Brouwer or a 1st and Tinordi for Penner(you were also willing to trade a 1st and Kostitsyn for Penner, which would have not only been a lateral move, but would have also been a loss considering we'd lose that first for a very inconsistent player).

I find this pretty funny.
LMAO at the heards spending more time discussing me instead of trying to see what's in the content on the text. You're all so funny.

I don't think there is anything I would say that would make you change your mind. You (and when I say you I mean a few of you) have your pre-conceived idea of what I'm trying to do, what's on my mind and my evil plan to gain control of the planet.

No, this wasn't a full picture of Gauthier or Martin's work. I've admitted to that already but hey, you guys pass over it as if I didn't mention it. Fill your boots!

I had noticed for a while though that Gauthier was giving assets away with nothing to show for in the long run and with this research, whether you agree with it or not, whether you find other excuses to justify it or not, I have put to light that there are a lot of good assets that were sent away with nothing left to show for.

That's okay, I was expecting the herd to follow suit, to break it down. I wasn't quite expecting it to turn against me personally the way it has, but it speaks highly of the maturity (or lack of there off) on HF Boards in the last few years, in spite of the self-proclaimed patting on the back.

Perhaps I'll join the troop!

Pouliot was a bum, and so were Sergei, D'Agostini, Latendresse and Boucher. All hail Gauthier and Martin, who should have won awards for their work!

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Old
06-28-2011, 08:45 AM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Koseegin View Post
I'm just boggled by the fact that you think that a 2nd for Moore, a second for Wisniewski and Maxwell and a 4th for Sopel and Dawes are bad trades when you come on HF willing to trade the 17th overall pick and a chance to select Beaulieu for a top 9 forward in Troy Brouwer or a 1st and Tinordi for Penner(you were also willing to trade a 1st and Kostitsyn for Penner, which would have not only been a lateral move, but would have also been a loss considering we'd lose that first for a very inconsistent player).

I find this pretty funny.
Having Brouwer and Penner on the team changes the dynamic of the wingers and actually makes the team better, maybe even much better. Wiz was awesome (and I think that trade was just downright amazing), but the players you listed were spare parts won't have been here for a long time at all. In actually, their impact would have been minimal in the end. How good were those trades then? His trade proposals actually ressemble what happens throughout the league. Didn't read any of the posts longer than 1 paragraph so no need to shove them in my face if any of these things were brought up.

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06-28-2011, 08:45 AM
  #55
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LMAO at the heards spending more time discussing me instead of trying to see what's in the content on the text. You're all so funny.
Have you read the thread? There are multiple posts actually discussing the arguments you put forth and actually give reasons why they disagree.

Quote:
I don't think there is anything I would say that would make you change your mind. You (and when I say you I mean a few of you) have your pre-conceived idea of what I'm trying to do, what's on my mind and my evil plan to gain control of the planet.
I don't think I or anyone else have any pre-conceived notion of you. The only person who has a pre-conceived notion here is you in regards to management. Your whole blog is one giant negative complaint. You've been on these boards a while and your "argument" has been the same since the beginning as well as your tone.

No, this wasn't a full picture of Gauthier or Martin's work. I've admitted to that already but hey, you guys pass over it as if I didn't mention it. Fill your boots!

Quote:
I had noticed for a while though that Gauthier was giving assets away with nothing to show for in the long run and with this research, whether you agree with it or not, whether you find other excuses to justify it or not, I have put to light that there are a lot of good assets that were sent away with nothing left to show for.
Giving away assets is common place in the nhl for teams who are trying to solidify their lineup for playoff time. Look at every team they all do the same.

I'm not trying to justify anything, I think you're way too narrow and one-sided in your analysis. Why don't you take a look at the trades made by playoff teams in the last few years and see how many wasted assets there have been. Like I said, rentals or "wasting assets" is common place for teams in the playoffs.

Quote:
That's okay, I was expecting the herd to follow suit, to break it down. I wasn't quite expecting it to turn against me personally the way it has, but it speaks highly of the maturity (or lack of there off) on HF Boards in the last few years, in spite of the self-proclaimed patting on the back.
Once again you never respond to the actual arguments people present against your opinion. Instead you keep regurgitating the same stupid "following the herd" statement instead of actually addressing people's concerns with your articles/blog/opinion pieces. It's an easy cop-out on your part, but just shows that you aren't able to discuss with anyone who differs from your opinion. You did this in the Kostitsyn thread, the Pouliot thread, the Martin thread etc. You avoid arguments by posting emoticons after cliche cop-out sayings or other immature things like U mad memes.

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Old
06-28-2011, 08:46 AM
  #56
Dirty Danglez
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
LMAO at the heards spending more time discussing me instead of trying to see what's in the content on the text. You're all so funny.

I don't think there is anything I would say that would make you change your mind. You (and when I say you I mean a few of you) have your pre-conceived idea of what I'm trying to do, what's on my mind and my evil plan to gain control of the planet.

No, this wasn't a full picture of Gauthier or Martin's work. I've admitted to that already but hey, you guys pass over it as if I didn't mention it. Fill your boots!

I had noticed for a while though that Gauthier was giving assets away with nothing to show for in the long run and with this research, whether you agree with it or not, whether you find other excuses to justify it or not, I have put to light that there are a lot of good assets that were sent away with nothing left to show for.

That's okay, I was expecting the herd to follow suit, to break it down. I wasn't quite expecting it to turn against me personally the way it has, but it speaks highly of the maturity (or lack of there off) on HF Boards in the last few years, in spite of the self-proclaimed patting on the back.

Perhaps I'll join the troop!

Pouliot was a bum, and so were Sergei, D'Agostini, Latendresse and Boucher. All hail Gauthier and Martin, who should have won awards for their work!
and calling some people a heard is mature... right. As for giving up assets for long term benefits? How about experience? You think if the habs didn't trade for moore who drastically changed our bottom six that the habs would have squeaked into the playoffs and had the run that they did?

You don't think that trading for wizniewski pretty much gave us a playoff spot because without him we would have no PP. You don't think Gauthier had to trade draft picks and futures for defense cause of all the injuries the habs had to deal with?

Experience is an asset, and gauthier gave the team a lot of it.

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Old
06-28-2011, 08:51 AM
  #57
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Having Brouwer and Penner on the team changes the dynamic of the wingers and actually makes the team better, maybe even much better.
While I don't disagree, what I do disagree with is what Asterix was willing to offer to acquire them which would have been nothing short of an overpayment in both cases.
Quote:
Wiz was awesome (and I think that trade was just downright amazing), but the players you listed were spare parts won't have been here for a long time at all.
If the spare part players you are referring to are Maxwell then yes I agree.
Quote:
In actually, their impact would have been minimal in the end. How good were those trades then? His trade proposals actually ressemble what happens throughout the league.
I never argued that his proposals were off-base. I said they were overpayments. I also found it funny how he didn't like the trades I mentioned but preferred overpaying for these other players, which would have hurt the team more than it would have helped them at this point in time. Penner is an inconsistent complementary winger who is not at all different from Kostitsyn in terms of production and we'd all agree that a 1st for Andrei would be an overpayment.

As far as Brouwer goes, he's a top 9 forward with many flaws in his game, I would never give a first for that, especially since we drafted beaulieu. Washington overpayed for Brouwer, it was a bad trade.

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Old
06-28-2011, 08:58 AM
  #58
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LMAO at the heards spending more time discussing me instead of trying to see what's in the content on the text. You're all so funny.
Looking at the numerous answers you receive, it seems people have taken plenty of time to address your points individually.
Quote:

I don't think there is anything I would say that would make you change your mind. You (and when I say you I mean a few of you) have your pre-conceived idea of what I'm trying to do, what's on my mind and my evil plan to gain control of the planet.
Ridiculous exageration aside, it begs the question: if your exercice was truly genuine, then how could you miss so much of the context of the last few years, and why is this missing context always support the same side? That's one heck of a coincidence, isn't?
Quote:
No, this wasn't a full picture of Gauthier or Martin's work. I've admitted to that already but hey, you guys pass over it as if I didn't mention it. Fill your boots!
The point isn't that it's a full picture; the point is that it's clearly not a fair picture, which kind of put a dent on your claim of objectivity.
Quote:
I had noticed for a while though that Gauthier was giving assets away with nothing to show for in the long run and with this research, whether you agree with it or not, whether you find other excuses to justify it or not, I have put to light that there are a lot of good assets that were sent away with nothing left to show for.
It would be very interesting if plenty of other teams weren't also trading picks and assets for short term gain, every single season. It's not a failing of Gauthier that you observed, it's you not understanding how teams operate.
Quote:
That's okay, I was expecting the herd to follow suit, to break it down. I wasn't quite expecting it to turn against me personally the way it has, but it speaks highly of the maturity (or lack of there off) on HF Boards in the last few years, in spite of the self-proclaimed patting on the back.

Pouliot was a bum, and so were Sergei, D'Agostini, Latendresse and Boucher. All hail Gauthier and Martin, who should have won awards for their work!
This doesn't has the punch you think it has.

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Old
06-28-2011, 09:00 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
LMAO at the heards spending more time discussing me instead of trying to see what's in the content on the text. You're all so funny.

I don't think there is anything I would say that would make you change your mind. You (and when I say you I mean a few of you) have your pre-conceived idea of what I'm trying to do, what's on my mind and my evil plan to gain control of the planet.

No, this wasn't a full picture of Gauthier or Martin's work. I've admitted to that already but hey, you guys pass over it as if I didn't mention it. Fill your boots!

I had noticed for a while though that Gauthier was giving assets away with nothing to show for in the long run and with this research, whether you agree with it or not, whether you find other excuses to justify it or not, I have put to light that there are a lot of good assets that were sent away with nothing left to show for.

That's okay, I was expecting the herd to follow suit, to break it down. I wasn't quite expecting it to turn against me personally the way it has, but it speaks highly of the maturity (or lack of there off) on HF Boards in the last few years, in spite of the self-proclaimed patting on the back.

Perhaps I'll join the troop!

Pouliot was a bum, and so were Sergei, D'Agostini, Latendresse and Boucher. All hail Gauthier and Martin, who should have won awards for their work!




You talk of maturity, yet I've read dozens of solid and realistic arguments, none one which you tried to debate. Instead of tackling the issues, which you brought forth, you rather try to paint all responses as 'excuses' or attack, and then paint everyone as though we were all mindlessly praising Gauthier and Martin. Seems to me you should take a long hard look in the mirror.

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Old
06-28-2011, 09:01 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Oshawa General View Post
Good points and great analysis, if only more Canadiens' fans would wake up and see how this great franchise is being mishandled by Martin and Gauthier, two micro manager, arrogant dictators, who have won what in their careers, oh yeah, NOTHING
I disagree. More fans liking or not liking the management doesn't change a thing.

Regardless though I don't see how being pessimistic is better than being optimistic. I don't feel like spending my entire life crying about things I cannot fix/change.

I'll let the management do their job because regardless of where the team ends up I'm a hab fan for life. If we have a cup winner or a bottom feeder it really doesn't matter because a diehard fan is a diehard fan, for any team. It just so happens that our fan base has many. It wouldn't change a thing though if everyone was pessimistic like you all are, people would still pay to go see the games.

If you're operating on the assumption that because of that reasoning the team doesn't feel the need to make an effort to win (even though we spend to the cap) then I really don't know what to tell you. That's a naive assumption at best. If it were only about making money they'd spend the cap floor and still sell out every game with a bottom feeder.

Instead they try to ice a competitive team each year knowing full well a good system + top goalie can equate to a cup. You can't always win UFA signings, you can't always win trades but if you don't believe in managements competence it's one thing, to believe they aren't even trying is obviously another.

So that leads me to the conclusion that you probably just think management is incompetent. That leads me to ask, how exactly do you know you'd be doing so much better? It isn't as easy as "Gomez dealt for a 4th round pick, Richards signed at a discount".

I know a lot of people living in lala land armchairing believe they can do a better job but you couldn't, you can't and frankly you aren't in that position for a reason. If you could you would be doing it. Truth is our management does a better job than any person on this forum likely could do by 100 miles and further. It's fun to speculate and armchair it up, it's an entirely other thing to bash the management when they have pretty much great success given the depleted roster and team the way they were given it in the first place.

Some people won't be happy with anything short of miracles. Did Gauthier trade away assets to plug holes? Yes. Did those plugs help our team? Yes. Did we retain them? No. But who we replace them with remains to be seen, so I find it to be cherry picking in terms of time (for the article) because you wait to see all the people we let go but don't even give Gauthier the benefit of July 1st - 15th in order to see who he replaces them with.

There's a such thing as giving away a pick for an asset you don't retain and then signing a much better asset instead. That remains to be seen so the fact that you cherry pick June 28th after the qualifying offers (or lack there of) in order to post this just stinks of bias against the management. In fact the whole thing stinks of bias from line #1. I'm not saying don't be bias everyone is bias, but jeeze man you have a real hate for management. To the point of almost being unhealthy

Give them time to sign some UFA's before you bash them for being ****** at running the team.
(Some of the statements were more-so directed at the OP and not you)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post


You talk of maturity, yet I've read dozens of solid and realistic arguments, none one which you tried to debate. Instead of tackling the issues, which you brought forth, you rather try to paint all responses as 'excuses' or attack, and then paint everyone as though we were all mindlessly praising Gauthier and Martin. Seems to me you should take a long hard look in the mirror.
I honestly get the impression he just makes these posts to troll us. The other thread about trading a 1st for Brouwer...

Habsterix if you were our GM we'd probably be sitting in 30th maybe 29th just because the structure of a decent team was already in place And I don't mean 29th-30th by choice because you bottomed out, I mean 29th-30th because the team would suck and don't even tell me that's a good thing, because you'd have dealt our 1st overall pick for Brouwer anyways so not like bottoming out would even be worthwhile


Last edited by neofury*: 06-28-2011 at 09:07 AM.
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06-28-2011, 09:17 AM
  #61
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Bla Bla Bla strawman argument
I just love how everybody calls you out on your ******** and you still find time to throw ******** reasons why everybody is wrong and you're right.

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06-28-2011, 09:19 AM
  #62
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LMAO at the heards spending more time discussing me instead of trying to see what's in the content on the text. You're all so funny.
Sorry Habs, I'm not saying that this is what you're doing but this is like standard troll job. You post something you know will get a tons of reaction because it's so one-sided biased and negative, then you ignore every long post with detailed arguments when you reply and pick a short one where you can target a few short points to argue against and then make big generalization over everyone else that you do not want to argue with because they took down your whole argumentation in details.

This is like the abc of a troll job on forums. It sure works, look at all the very long texts people wrote that you happily ignore saying 'they're all following the herd, I can't convince them because they have pre-conceived ideas (not like that could be your case), <insert pointless sarcastic comment>'.

So ya. Troll job, wether you intended it to be or not.

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06-28-2011, 09:20 AM
  #63
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06-28-2011, 09:30 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by LyleOdelein View Post
I'm about to get off on a huge rant here... but this blog just struck me the wrong way.

It's so easy to sit back and use imperfect analysis to lambast any sports team. It's especially and cherry pick rental trades which were made to fill short term needs and lament the loss of longer term assets spent to make those short term gains.



Markov's injury drastically impacted this team. Subban was going through some consistency issues and PG acquires Wiz for a 2nd and a conditional 5th rounder in 2012. The condition on the 5th round pick was that Wiz had to play in 50% of the Habs games and that the Habs make the playoffs, which tends to give a sense of the perspective with which the Habs viewed this deal as a short-term one to shore up the defense.

Wisniewski stays healthy, continues his fine year and helps the Habs make the playoffs. Hell, he ends up being one of the better rental acquisitions made this year (certainly a lot more beneficial than Chia's acquisition of Kaberle at a later date and a much higher price). Mission accomplished as far as the trade is concerned, right? I mean, a pick of moderate value (2nd) and a pick of little value (5th) seems like a fair price for half a season plus the playoffs of Wiz's impact this year, right?

Nope. Now we'll move the goalposts again and assess the deal based strictly on whether or not Wisniewski re-signs. Even though this completely ignores the context and actual exchange of value that the trade was based on, people will use this to determine whether or not it was a good deal.



Maybe some of us should step down from our historical pedestal as fans and try to view the transactions that occur over time with an understanding as to why they were made at the time? Maybe we should try and recognize our self-annointed designation of being an knowledgeable fanbase and at least look at the whole picture, before spitting on the frame of it? Maybe we should get rid of our sense of entitlement and stop thinking that the current GM has to rob other GMs in every single transaction he makes. Maybe we should also realize that management in this era of the league is much different than it used to be and every team, every single team is impacted by free agency, the rental market and salary implications, no matter how ingenious we think their front office is.

Maybe then, we will realize that things aren't as terrible as a few poorly selected and misrepresented arguments might make them seem. Maybe then, we might deserve better.
I tend to agree with you and other posters of the same view.

However. See bolded above.

Last year was the last time. There is no excuse this year.

If the Habs fail to sign a reasonable back up to Markov this year, and we spend yet another 2nd round pick on a rental, I will cross the line from being supportive of PG to wanting him gone.

I really believe that if PG does not sign Wiz or another solid top 4 D this year, he will have been grossly negligent, and pretty darn stupid also.

I do support your positiveness, but I am watching PG very closely on what he does in the next few days with our D.

Mark me. If PG fails to sign a top 4 D, this board, and some of you more positive posters also, will be going mental in January when Markov or Subban goes down for the year. Mark me. You need 3 top producing D men, not 2. 2 is not enough.

I wait with interest.

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06-28-2011, 09:32 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by neofury View Post
I honestly get the impression he just makes these posts to troll us. The other thread about trading a 1st for Brouwer...

Habsterix if you were our GM we'd probably be sitting in 30th maybe 29th just because the structure of a decent team was already in place And I don't mean 29th-30th by choice because you bottomed out, I mean 29th-30th because the team would suck and don't even tell me that's a good thing, because you'd have dealt our 1st overall pick for Brouwer anyways so not like bottoming out would even be worthwhile
No wonder he agreed so much with LaFleursGuy and the "let's tank and pick top 5", if there were a 'idiot's guide to professional hockey management', it's the first strategy they would teach, because it's just reward for failure, it's just so easy this way.

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06-28-2011, 09:33 AM
  #66
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While I don't disagree, what I do disagree with is what Asterix was willing to offer to acquire them which would have been nothing short of an overpayment in both cases.


If the spare part players you are referring to are Maxwell then yes I agree.


I never argued that his proposals were off-base. I said they were overpayments. I also found it funny how he didn't like the trades I mentioned but preferred overpaying for these other players, which would have hurt the team more than it would have helped them at this point in time. Penner is an inconsistent complementary winger who is not at all different from Kostitsyn in terms of production and we'd all agree that a 1st for Andrei would be an overpayment.
Anyone who would agree with that would be wrong. A 1st for Andrei would not at all be an overpayment. First, which part of the first round (as the 20th+ spots are generally worthless) and in what quality of draft? The chances you get a better player (or even a player as good as him) than Andrei are slim. I would rather have Penner anyways, but the other team wouldn't rather have Kostitsyn. At least the Penner+Brouwer ideas were "big picture" kind of acquisitions, like Moore and Wiz... if management had actually signed them. And how can you not imply management has no vision? The big shot from the point has been the key to the Habs powerplay for the last millenium, yet every year since Streit left, they end up having to fix that problem mid-season with a higher acquisition price and after a few games were lost.

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06-28-2011, 10:23 AM
  #67
Turtleneck Plek
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Defensive stance: check.
Backtracking: check.
Condescending tone: check.
Lack of any arguable facts: check.

If you're gonna write something, make sure you can defend it factually and ideologically. If you can't do that, and resort to backtracking, back-door insults and sarcasm, it means your opinion isn't worth much.

"Hey, these 4-5 guys wrote huge posts explaining in detail why my opinion isn't solid. How immature and sheepish of them. "


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06-28-2011, 10:36 AM
  #68
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I respect the fact that the OP has enough passion to start a blog about the habs. That takes passion and effort.

But when you read the article, it offers nothing new, no in depth analysis, no real back ground.... it is just a familiar echo of what has been said a million times by others with no supporting information.

Keep moving folks, nothing to see here.

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06-28-2011, 10:58 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
But you cannot deny what Habsterix is saying. In the short tenure of Gauthier, he has basically come up on the short end of every trade.
Wisniewski produced for the Habs. That was a great trade when PG was between a rock and a hard place (Markov injury).

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06-28-2011, 11:05 AM
  #70
Em Ancien
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Habsterix bashing the Habs management? Not happy about lack of grit? Too many Euros?

You're a broken disk, dude.

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06-28-2011, 11:06 AM
  #71
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I will not click on this link.OP have clearly a agenda.


Last edited by CareyClutch: 06-28-2011 at 11:18 AM.
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06-28-2011, 11:17 AM
  #72
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I guess if your calling everyone blind sheep, might as well comment on your article!

IMO you know that if there are numerous comments that are more constructive and analytical (not to mention longer and better written) then that "top ten list of why i hate PG" blog post, you fail at writting. Management loves people like you; you have feelings of hate, disappointment, yet always come back for more 'habs'. At least i made a conscious decision to blindly follow this sport; or entertainment might be the better word. You are a blind sheep, and you don't even know it.

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06-28-2011, 11:21 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Little Nilan View Post
Anyone who would agree with that would be wrong. A 1st for Andrei would not at all be an overpayment. First, which part of the first round (as the 20th+ spots are generally worthless) and in what quality of draft? The chances you get a better player (or even a player as good as him) than Andrei are slim. I would rather have Penner anyways, but the other team wouldn't rather have Kostitsyn. At least the Penner+Brouwer ideas were "big picture" kind of acquisitions, like Moore and Wiz... if management had actually signed them. And how can you not imply management has no vision? The big shot from the point has been the key to the Habs powerplay for the last millenium, yet every year since Streit left, they end up having to fix that problem mid-season with a higher acquisition price and after a few games were lost.
Right, we have PK that has that bomb, and Weber certainly has one as well but he needed more time. Perhaps he'll be ready this season.
In any event, the problem isn't about that. You can criticize management for this, I don't think anybody will dispute you for it. The problem is that Habs focuses only on just doing that. He fails to acknowledge any of the good.
Ya, Wiz was a rental, how many rentals get traded for and not re-signed? That doesn't mean it's a great move, but it's a very common one. But if you want to point out the fact that those players only ended up as rentals, then shouldn't you also recognize that management at least was proactive in filling in some spots??
Why only bring out the ''they're gone'' side? Especially when you're trying to write an objective post (talking about Habsterix, not you)..

As for the trades he proposed. It was a 1st round pick + Tinordi, which is an overpayment. Habsterix will bring up the physical aspect, but Penner throws about one hit per game which is less than AK. He also scored 2G in 19GP with the Kings (only 6pts), and was rather disappointing in the POs. Certainly doesn't seem like the Kings got away with the better part of that trade, as of today.

As for a 1st for Brouwer, it's a horrible deal especially considering we ended up with Beaulieu. The man scored more than 20g once and never went over 40pts. He hits a whole lot though, so probably why Habsterix likes him. Penner barely hits however, so he probably just likes him because he's big.

You're right, getting them would change the dynamic of our team. Trading Plek/Gorges/Subban for Vinny would have also changed the dynamic of our team.
It doesn't mean our team would be better.

Penner/Brouwer will add up to about 6M (if not more). That means some salary would have needed to be shed. AK would be on the outs, and Habsterix would probably whine that Gauthier lost yet another asset.

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06-28-2011, 11:24 AM
  #74
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This thread is a lot more entertaining than I expected it to be.

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06-28-2011, 11:29 AM
  #75
MasterDecoy
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This thread is a lot more entertaining than I expected it to be.
Love it!

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