HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The History of Hockey
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
The History of Hockey Relive great moments in hockey history and discuss how the game has changed over time.

Peter Bondra, hockey hall of fame?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
06-28-2011, 01:59 AM
  #76
Zil
Registered User
 
Zil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 4,293
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamzik View Post
Bump!

Do the right thing HHOF and get Peter Bondra in there this year.
It's bad enough that freaking Joe Nieuwendyk is going in before Oates, Gilmour, Makarov, etc without someone like Bondra getting in. He is in no way shape or form qualified to be in the hall.

Zil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-28-2011, 02:12 AM
  #77
Hab-a-maniac
Registered User
 
Hab-a-maniac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Toronto via Calgary!
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,204
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zil View Post
It's bad enough that freaking Joe Nieuwendyk is going in before Oates, Gilmour, Makarov, etc without someone like Bondra getting in. He is in no way shape or form qualified to be in the hall.
This. God do hockey fans even realize the HHOF is only for the best of the best? To be fair, the HOF has ****ed it up by allowing all sorts of undeserving candidates in and thus making their snubs look questionable.

Hab-a-maniac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-28-2011, 02:14 AM
  #78
seventieslord
Moderator
 
seventieslord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Regina, SK
Country: Canada
Posts: 25,000
vCash: 500
Ugh, it is embarrassing to read that not two years ago I said I was "on the fence" about Bondra.

No, no, no, no, no.

seventieslord is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-28-2011, 05:41 AM
  #79
TheMoreYouKnow
Registered User
 
TheMoreYouKnow's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Eire
Posts: 8,959
vCash: 500
He's basically the Tim Kerr of the 90s, probably a somewhat better goalscorer but even less of an all-round player.

I think if he had started his career 1980-81 rather than 1990-91, his totals would probably be big enough to make him a HOF player in spite of all the flaws of the case, but it is what it is.

TheMoreYouKnow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-28-2011, 11:42 AM
  #80
Kamzik
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Country: Slovakia
Posts: 1,524
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zil View Post
It's bad enough that freaking Joe Nieuwendyk is going in before Oates, Gilmour, Makarov, etc without someone like Bondra getting in. He is in no way shape or form qualified to be in the hall.
One of the fastest skaters ever, 500 goals most of which were i the dead puck era, twice lead the NHL in goals, tremendous international hockey accomplishments.

Kamzik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-28-2011, 11:45 AM
  #81
TheDevilMadeMe
Global Moderator
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 41,077
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamzik View Post
One of the fastest skaters ever, 500 goals most of which were i the dead puck era, twice lead the NHL in goals, tremendous international hockey accomplishments.
Never Top 10 in points, not a factor when not scoring (in the NHL at least), never voted one of the top 3 RWs for any given regular season, awful playoff numbers.

TheDevilMadeMe is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-28-2011, 12:09 PM
  #82
MadArcand
We do not sow
 
MadArcand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Pyke
Country: Slovakia
Posts: 4,625
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Never Top 10 in points, not a factor when not scoring (in the NHL at least), never voted one of the top 3 RWs for any given regular season, awful playoff numbers.
Yet he'd be still much better induction than Ciccarelli.

MadArcand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-28-2011, 12:23 PM
  #83
TheDevilMadeMe
Global Moderator
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 41,077
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadArcand View Post
Yet he'd be still much better induction than Ciccarelli.
I wouldn't have inducted Dino, but Bondra would be a significantly worse selection.

Dino was top 10 in points twice. Bondra never was. Dino brought loads of grit; Bondra didn't. Dino has fantastic goal scoring numbers in the playoffs; Bondra's scoring dropped like a rock in the playoffs.

TheDevilMadeMe is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-28-2011, 01:36 PM
  #84
Kamzik
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Country: Slovakia
Posts: 1,524
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Never Top 10 in points, not a factor when not scoring (in the NHL at least), never voted one of the top 3 RWs for any given regular season, awful playoff numbers.
He was a guy scoring 50 goals when it was nearly impossible to score 50 goals. He had about the same number of goals in the 90s as Teemu Selanne, there was a 6 year stretch where only Jagr had more goals.

He was also on the first PK unit of the Capitals, he had over 30 shorthanded goals. He is all over the Washington Capitals record book.

Kamzik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-28-2011, 01:41 PM
  #85
Pajicz
Registered User
 
Pajicz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Country:
Posts: 3,892
vCash: 500
Send a message via Yahoo to Pajicz
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamzik View Post
He was a guy scoring 50 goals when it was nearly impossible to score 50 goals. He had about the same number of goals in the 90s as Teemu Selanne, there was a 6 year stretch where only Jagr had more goals.

He was also on the first PK unit of the Capitals, he had over 30 shorthanded goals. He is all over the Washington Capitals record book.
Bondra was a great player, but just not great enough to get into HHoF.

Pajicz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-28-2011, 07:36 PM
  #86
JaysCyYoung
Registered User
 
JaysCyYoung's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: York Region
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,779
vCash: 500
Honest question I have for Kamzik: if Bondra was not Slovakian would you be pushing nearly as hard for his enshrinement? For some reason I believe not.

JaysCyYoung is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-28-2011, 08:12 PM
  #87
Kamzik
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Country: Slovakia
Posts: 1,524
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaysCyYoung View Post
Honest question I have for Kamzik: if Bondra was not Slovakian would you be pushing nearly as hard for his enshrinement? For some reason I believe not.
An honest question deserves an honest answer. Firstly it is Slovak, one wouldn't say Swedishian or Dutchian. Anyhow, I was just arguing on his behalf. I think playing so many years in Washington he was perhaps "under the radar". It saddens me that very few here agree with my opinion on him. I don't think I've ever seen a performance better than his at the 2002 World Championships. I believe in the entire tournament he was not on the ice for a single goal against, while leading the tournament in goals (including the championship winner).

If I say he was one of the fastest players ever, that is meaningless. Rico Fata was very fast. But he was one of the fastest players ever and he scored 500+ NHL goals. He is a great.

Kamzik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-28-2011, 10:27 PM
  #88
Big Phil
Registered User
 
Big Phil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,554
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamzik View Post
He was a guy scoring 50 goals when it was nearly impossible to score 50 goals. He had about the same number of goals in the 90s as Teemu Selanne, there was a 6 year stretch where only Jagr had more goals.

He was also on the first PK unit of the Capitals, he had over 30 shorthanded goals. He is all over the Washington Capitals record book.
I am pretty sure I would be all over the Capitals record book too. That isn't a huge accomplishment. This is a team that has been to the Cup final once in their 37 years of existance. They have Langway and maybe Gartner as their best players of all-time and these are their only two legit HHOFers (and with Gartner it's borderline that he's a true Capital). By comparison, if you bragged about who holds the team records for the Hartford/Carolina franchise it would be the same thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MadArcand View Post
Yet he'd be still much better induction than Ciccarelli.
Hard to justify that Bondra was better than Ciccarelli. You have to remember, Bondra did NOTHING if he wasn't scoring goals. Nothing in the mold of Pavel Bure. Ciccarelli was chippy at least, he fought, he wasn't awful defensively. And even if you are comparing them solely as goal scorers Bondra is barely better.

Big Phil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-28-2011, 10:31 PM
  #89
Big Phil
Registered User
 
Big Phil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,554
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamzik View Post
An honest question deserves an honest answer. Firstly it is Slovak, one wouldn't say Swedishian or Dutchian. Anyhow, I was just arguing on his behalf. I think playing so many years in Washington he was perhaps "under the radar". It saddens me that very few here agree with my opinion on him. I don't think I've ever seen a performance better than his at the 2002 World Championships. I believe in the entire tournament he was not on the ice for a single goal against, while leading the tournament in goals (including the championship winner).

If I say he was one of the fastest players ever, that is meaningless. Rico Fata was very fast. But he was one of the fastest players ever and he scored 500+ NHL goals. He is a great.
The World Championships are fine, but when you dominate a tournament that consists of the best players in the world either in the NHL playoffs or on the golf course it doesn't say much. If he dominated the 2002 Olympics, then we'll talk, but he didn't and he was awful in the postseason per his skill level.

Also, he only ever scored goals. If this is all you can do, you'd better do it better than anyone else in the world but he didn't. Bure, Selanne and even Jagr would be classified as better goal scorers during that era. I hate to say it, but Keith Tkachuk is right there with him too.

Being one-dimensional means you have to have that one dimension so immense that it is impossible to ignore. Bondra didn't have that.

Big Phil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-28-2011, 11:14 PM
  #90
seventieslord
Moderator
 
seventieslord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Regina, SK
Country: Canada
Posts: 25,000
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
Hard to justify that Bondra was better than Ciccarelli. You have to remember, Bondra did NOTHING if he wasn't scoring goals. Nothing in the mold of Pavel Bure. Ciccarelli was chippy at least, he fought, he wasn't awful defensively. And even if you are comparing them solely as goal scorers Bondra is barely better.
They're not really that far though... Ciccarelli was not demonstrably better than Bondra defensively. And Bondra's record as a penalty killer (both by scoring and by not getting scored on) is pretty incredible.

seventieslord is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-28-2011, 11:25 PM
  #91
Kamzik
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Country: Slovakia
Posts: 1,524
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
I am pretty sure I would be all over the Capitals record book too. That isn't a huge accomplishment.
Then Phil, why aren't you? Of course it is a big accomplishment, and it will be a big accomplishment by Alexander Ovechkin when years from now he breaks those records.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
The World Championships are fine, but when you dominate a tournament that consists of the best players in the world either in the NHL playoffs or on the golf course it doesn't say much. If he dominated the 2002 Olympics, then we'll talk, but he didn't and he was awful in the postseason per his skill level.
If that is how you feel about the World Championships, then quite honestly you and I don't have a discussion. We see things so differently that we don't even have a starting point. If by the way World Championships count for naught, I'm not sure why Larionov is there or Tretiak, or why Makarov is currently under consideration. -added note, Slovakia was not able to use NHL players in the Olympics until Turin Italy in 2006 so that minimizes Bondra's impact as an Olympian.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
Being one-dimensional
It is about the 4th time you've written that, or that Bondra did nothing while not scoring. You didn't really respond to me pointing out he was for years on the Capitals first PK unit. Anyhow, every hockey player has three dimensions unless they are on TV in which case they only have two.


Last edited by Kamzik: 06-28-2011 at 11:30 PM.
Kamzik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-28-2011, 11:39 PM
  #92
seventieslord
Moderator
 
seventieslord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Regina, SK
Country: Canada
Posts: 25,000
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamzik View Post
If by the way World Championships count for naught, I'm not sure why Larionov is there or Tretiak, or why Makarov is currently under consideration
best on best international tournaments.

seventieslord is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-29-2011, 01:03 AM
  #93
Hardyvan123
tweet@HardyintheWack
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,128
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Never Top 10 in points, not a factor when not scoring (in the NHL at least), never voted one of the top 3 RWs for any given regular season, awful playoff numbers.
Even leading the NHL 2 times he wasn't an allstar, too one dimensional.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
I wouldn't have inducted Dino, but Bondra would be a significantly worse selection.

Dino was top 10 in points twice. Bondra never was. Dino brought loads of grit; Bondra didn't. Dino has fantastic goal scoring numbers in the playoffs; Bondra's scoring dropped like a rock in the playoffs.

Dino is better IMO as well

Bondra's peak in goalscoring was 3rd from 95-99 (sorry can't get the link to work) but he is the 15-20th range of the top 20 players listed in terms of the type of guy a team would want in real life in order to win. Great fantasy guy, especially in goal scoring leagues. Poor playoffs sealed the deal for him as well.

Hardyvan123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-29-2011, 01:40 AM
  #94
Kamzik
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Country: Slovakia
Posts: 1,524
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardyvan123 View Post
Even leading the NHL 2 times he wasn't an allstar, too one dimensional.
Even if you got me to agree that Peter Bondra was a one dimensional player, which I don't by the way, you will certainly not get me to agree that everyone in the HHOF has more than "one dimension".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardyvan123 View Post
Even leading the NHL 2 times he wasn't an allstar, too one dimensional.
Bondra's peak in goalscoring was 3rd from 95-99 (sorry can't get the link to work) but he is the 15-20th range of the top 20 players listed in terms of the type of guy a team would want in real life in order to win.
I put that in Google Translate to convert Canadian to English and it came out as "Peter Bondra has no heart cause he is not Timmy Johnson born in Kapuskasing Ontario".

Kamzik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-29-2011, 02:08 AM
  #95
begbeee
Registered User
 
begbeee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Slovakia
Country: Slovakia
Posts: 4,011
vCash: 500
Kamzik please, stop embarrassing yourself. I am a fan of Bondra, I agree that he is really underrated borderline player who should be in debate and to be honest, some of the posters are beating a dead horse.
But your arguing is on kindergarden level

begbeee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-29-2011, 02:10 AM
  #96
Jules Winnfield
Top 6 wing please...
 
Jules Winnfield's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 6,118
vCash: 500
Bondra was always a threat to score. If you put players like him in though then you might as well consider Ray Sheppard also.

Not HHOF worthy IMO.

Jules Winnfield is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-29-2011, 02:38 AM
  #97
begbeee
Registered User
 
begbeee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Slovakia
Country: Slovakia
Posts: 4,011
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jules Winnfield View Post
Bondra was always a threat to score. If you put players like him in though then you might as well consider Ray Sheppard also.

Not HHOF worthy IMO.
Hold on, even Miro Satan was better than Ray Sheppard. Sheppard is nowhere near Bondra level.
After all it seems to me that some of you would put Bondra somewhere in Bill Guerin tier...

begbeee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-29-2011, 02:39 AM
  #98
TheDevilMadeMe
Global Moderator
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 41,077
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamzik View Post
An honest question deserves an honest answer. Firstly it is Slovak, one wouldn't say Swedishian or Dutchian. Anyhow, I was just arguing on his behalf. I think playing so many years in Washington he was perhaps "under the radar". It saddens me that very few here agree with my opinion on him. I don't think I've ever seen a performance better than his at the 2002 World Championships. I believe in the entire tournament he was not on the ice for a single goal against, while leading the tournament in goals (including the championship winner).

If I say he was one of the fastest players ever, that is meaningless. Rico Fata was very fast. But he was one of the fastest players ever and he scored 500+ NHL goals. He is a great.
i watched plenty of the Capitals in the late 90s. And Olaf Kolzig was their best player by a fairly wide margin. And I don't see anyone clamoring to induct Ollie the Goalie

TheDevilMadeMe is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-29-2011, 02:47 AM
  #99
Jules Winnfield
Top 6 wing please...
 
Jules Winnfield's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 6,118
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by begbeee View Post
Hold on, even Miro Satan was better than Ray Sheppard. Sheppard is nowhere near Bondra level.
After all it seems to me that some of you would put Bondra somewhere in Bill Guerin tier...
I guess I should've put the smiley in there.

I'm just saying that Bondra was very one dimensional. He was a sniper and very good at it. Not HHOF worthy IMO. Guerin wasn't one dimensional and also had some fantastic playoff stretches, including a few Stanley Cups. If Bondra would've had some similar playoff stretches and Stanley Cups, I think you can make the argument for him.

Jules Winnfield is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-29-2011, 08:48 AM
  #100
jepjepjoo
Registered User
 
jepjepjoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 3,071
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamzik View Post
He was a guy scoring 50 goals when it was nearly impossible to score 50 goals. He had about the same number of goals in the 90s as Teemu Selanne
In about 100 more games...

Selanne 564gp 346 goals
Bondra 672gp 337 goals

jepjepjoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:02 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.