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Gomez was a good signing...

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Old
06-28-2011, 08:38 AM
  #26
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Scott Gomez was a good signing....for Scott Gomez.

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06-28-2011, 08:41 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
We didn't sign Gomez just so we could accrue assets. We signed him to be our #1 center and he failed at that. Yes, Sather was later able to turn a mistake into a positive, but that doesn't mean it was a good signing.

The signing kept us competitive. What if we had not been competitive instead, and finished in the lottery? Maybe we would have gotten some blue chip prospects that are better than McD.

No matter how you spin it, signing Gomez to that contract was a mistake and Sather was lucky to trade him for something of value
.
This is the crux of the matter. Part of the problem is the illusion that Scott Gomez was ever either a #1 center or a player who makes other players better.

BTW, the fact that Brooks recommended both the Holik and Gomez signings, and is now being cautionary about Richards makes me even more confident about signing Richards long term.

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06-28-2011, 08:48 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Blueblood 2 View Post
When you don't tank seasons to get lottery picks, how else do you get lottery type, skilled players? Gems are found from time to time with later picks but you never get a shot at the "no brainer" can't miss guys. You will never get those guys in their prime either in free agency, without some other baggage. Bottom line is that the rules favor the losers. Mandated "social justice" ultimately brings down the worth of the enterprise. It does foster growth.............in mediocrity!
Not sure what you're getting at here. The best teams should get the best draft positions? If so--it doesn't make a lot of sense unless you just want to trainwreck the weakest teams. A long time ago NHL teams used to sponsor their own junior teams--like Boston had Oshawa--the Rangers Kitchener but that played more favorably into the hands of the Canadian teams--Toronto and Montreal and in this day and age would require a lot of extra expense on NHL teams to begin scouting 14 year olds to get them into their junior programs which is something you still have in Europe--and what to do with all the college programs? The system the NHL currently has is better than either of those options.

The political commentary at the end is more your opinion than anything else and doesn't even belong in a discussion about would be future millionaires.

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06-28-2011, 08:55 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
The reality though is buying free agents costs you nothing but the cap space that you spend on them and can be turned into other assets at least as long as you can locate just one of the other 29 GM's around the league who might give you something of value for them--in this case it was Bob Gainey. You don't spend to the ceiling--in this case if we didn't sign Gomez then we don't add McDonagh, Valentenko and we might not have Prust (part of the Higgins deal)--so the Gomez signing over the longer run has worked out nicely for us. So yeah it can be categorized as a mistake but it's a mistake that Sather turned into something very beneficial for us. Redden and Drury can be classified differently--more or less cap space wasted for Redden's entire contract and for a good half of Drury's--and no movement of either for assets from another team. For that reason those two signings completely suck.

This.

Without Gomez, we most certainly do not have "too many" defensemen now and we probably would not have made the playoffs without both McDonagh and Prust. But look at our defense without the Gomez trade:

Staal - Girardi
Erixon - Sauer
MDZ - Kundratek

I would not be comfortable going into the season with two rookies, one sophomore and MDZ who just came off a sophomore slump.

The Rangers would probably still have Rosie and re-sign Eminger, plus spend Wolski's money to sign a forward of similar quality.

If nothing else, it would guarantee that we can't sign Brad Richards. Rosie's $5 plus Eminger for, say, $1.5 would be $6.5, almost what we expect to pay Richards.

So the Gomez signing worked out terrifically for us.

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06-28-2011, 09:39 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Stugots View Post
I can't for the life of me understand why the guy gets boo'd at MSG. His career averages with the Devils were 60-70 pts a season. What kind of stats did he put up when he came to the Rangers? 70 in year 1 and 58 in year 2. So if you think it's smart to boo a guy for achieving the numbers he had achieved his entire career, then go right ahead.
For me, personally, the reason why I disliked Gomez was not so much his production, but his work ethic, attitude, and lack of hockey sense. The perpetual smirk on his face... it's as if he never takes anything seriously.

I wanted him off the team after an embarrassing 5-2 loss to the Flyers at home. Mike Richards scored a shorthanded breakaway goal and Gomez was the only Ranger on the ice who he didn't make an effort to chase after him. He just stood at the Flyers blue line and dogged it.

This guy wore an "A" for us and was supposed to set an example for the younger guys. Yet in the playoffs, when the Rangers were taking a lot of penalties and Torts emphasized how important it was to be disciplined, Gomez took a lazy hooking penalty to start Game 6. That's not how a veteran leader should play the game. I think that's part of the reason why he is booed... his character leaves a lot to be desired.

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06-28-2011, 10:27 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
Not sure what you're getting at here. The best teams should get the best draft positions? If so--it doesn't make a lot of sense unless you just want to trainwreck the weakest teams. A long time ago NHL teams used to sponsor their own junior teams--like Boston had Oshawa--the Rangers Kitchener but that played more favorably into the hands of the Canadian teams--Toronto and Montreal and in this day and age would require a lot of extra expense on NHL teams to begin scouting 14 year olds to get them into their junior programs which is something you still have in Europe--and what to do with all the college programs? The system the NHL currently has is better than either of those options.

The political commentary at the end is more your opinion than anything else and doesn't even belong in a discussion about would be future millionaires.
I am getting at the facts. GM's like Sather who are shut out of lottery picks because they field "respectable"( Ha Ha) teams year in and year out, would be criticized more if they didn't try to improve through free agency, where everyone accepts that you overpay.
The fans of these teams, who pay the highest ticket prices, see their revenue shared, the best prospects and thereby on ice product mandated out of town, then blame the management rather than assigning the blame where it belongs. How long can you milk the golden goose? I suggest that one year with a top five pick puts you at the bottom of the list for the next two or three or whatever. Spreading the wealth should have some limit. Hope that's not too political for you because it does apply here. What is fair about the fans who spend the most, and have franchise owners who invest the most, rarely ever getting to see their home team with the most exciting and skilled young players? Sure it can happen with a mid round pick occasionally but the deck is too stacked right now. That, IS my opinion.

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06-28-2011, 10:44 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
We didn't sign Gomez just so we could accrue assets. We signed him to be our #1 center and he failed at that. Yes, Sather was later able to turn a mistake into a positive, but that doesn't mean it was a good signing.

The signing kept us competitive. What if we had not been competitive instead, and finished in the lottery? Maybe we would have gotten some blue chip prospects that are better than McD.

No matter how you spin it, signing Gomez to that contract was a mistake and Sather was lucky to trade him for something of value.
Thank you. The signing itself was a poor one.

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06-28-2011, 10:59 AM
  #33
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I see a lot of responses that basically equate to...I totalled my car driving drunk, didn't get caught by the cops and was able to buy a newer car with the insurance money...nice job Slats.

Sather dodged a bullet on that one.

The Gomez we got was pretty much the Gomez that played for the Devils...another square peg #2 that Sather tried to pound into a round hole as a #1.

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06-28-2011, 11:25 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Blueblood 2 View Post
When you don't tank seasons to get lottery picks, how else do you get lottery type, skilled players? Gems are found from time to time with later picks but you never get a shot at the "no brainer" can't miss guys. You will never get those guys in their prime either in free agency, without some other baggage. Bottom line is that the rules favor the losers. Mandated "social justice" ultimately brings down the worth of the enterprise. It does foster growth.............in mediocrity!
The rules favor parity which is the goal of every professional sports league aka cartel, the less distance between last and first generates interest and more importantly for the owners REVENUE. It isn't mandated "social justice" teh Owners make the rules and for the most part make rules that result in maximing their profit.

The tanking/lottery myth is just that a myth, based on the below we should have been a dynasty.

Flyer in the last 15 years missed the playoffs 1 time, went to the Finals twice and lost in the 3rd round 3 times.

Devils in the last 15 years missed the playoffs 2 times, won 2 Cups

San Jose last 15 years missed the playoffs 3 times, 3 WCF appearances.

NY Rangers last 15 years missed the playoffs 8 times, 1 ECF final appearance.

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06-28-2011, 11:37 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by NHRangerfan View Post
I see a lot of responses that basically equate to...I totalled my car driving drunk, didn't get caught by the cops and was able to buy a newer car with the insurance money...nice job Slats.

Sather dodged a bullet on that one.

The Gomez we got was pretty much the Gomez that played for the Devils...another square peg #2 that Sather tried to pound into a round hole as a #1.
Ahaha, nice. Interesting analogy, and fitting.

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06-28-2011, 12:08 PM
  #36
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this is silly

the gomez, drury, and redden contracts were atrocious mistakes that 100% killed the teams best chance of a cup since 94

the gomez trade, while fatastic, is at best a shining example of how to save your own ass after collosal mistake...but it does not make the gomez signing any better

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06-28-2011, 12:35 PM
  #37
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How did Gomez, Drury and Redden kill our Cup chances? When did we stand even the slightest chance? Can you show me one preview that said "watch out for the Rangers!"

Instead of these guys, we could have signed Briere and Campbell. they are better short term, but their longer contracts would harm us worse than drury. But say get Campbell and Briere instead of Drury and Campbell (which is what I wanted originally), how would that make us contenders? The only difference is that both would be more tradeable for young assets. But no way they would have led us to the Cup in 2008, 2009, 2010 or 2011.

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06-28-2011, 01:03 PM
  #38
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Post lockout the Rangers were ready to move some young players in but not enough of a foundation was in place. The team all but depended on its veterans--Jagr, Straka, Nylander, Shanahan to lead the way. And then along came Gomez, Drury and Redden to replace that group--while we again gradually brought in more youth and waited while they developed.

Now the team is led by younger players like Staal, Dubinsky, Callahan and Girardi--and it looks like it's going to be a good team with younger veterans and it's a matter of adding a piece or two--hopefully Richards is one--to make the next step to take us to another level--hopefully. It might not be quite a championship caliber team but it should be closer. The aim next year with or without Richards remains the same--to go deeper into the playoffs.

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06-28-2011, 01:15 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Blueblood 2 View Post
I am getting at the facts. GM's like Sather who are shut out of lottery picks because they field "respectable"( Ha Ha) teams year in and year out, would be criticized more if they didn't try to improve through free agency, where everyone accepts that you overpay.
The fans of these teams, who pay the highest ticket prices, see their revenue shared, the best prospects and thereby on ice product mandated out of town, then blame the management rather than assigning the blame where it belongs. How long can you milk the golden goose? I suggest that one year with a top five pick puts you at the bottom of the list for the next two or three or whatever. Spreading the wealth should have some limit. Hope that's not too political for you because it does apply here. What is fair about the fans who spend the most, and have franchise owners who invest the most, rarely ever getting to see their home team with the most exciting and skilled young players? Sure it can happen with a mid round pick occasionally but the deck is too stacked right now. That, IS my opinion.
Basically what you're arguing is not in the interest of the league or its owners almost all of whom I suspect are proto-capitalists albeit interested in making whatever rules they believe necessary to make the maximum profits and locking out anyone from joining their clique who doesn't fit into the right kind of profile. Professional sports team ownership is a super wealthy (wo)man's hobby--with the exception of maybe the Green Bay Packers. Just one reason why it's not in their interest would be weaker teams going out of business because they don't have the players that can attract fans to their arena's while they're mired in their losing ways. Customers have a habit in most places of not knocking the doors down when the team they root for sucks one year after another after another. After too long they start ignoring altogether their laughingstock of a team. It would be a great way to pare down the number of teams which actually I'm all for but that's not what's very likely to happen.

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06-28-2011, 01:41 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Puckface NYR View Post
Horrible signing, as was Drury, as has Redden. They all held back/handicapped the team. If you don't think that then i don't know what to tell you.

Your rationale for the Redden signing is wrong as well. The Rangers were a pp qb from being a top 4 team.

But we needed to resign Jagr, which we didn't and instead replaced him with Naslund.

The team went from a top team to a borderline playoff team and extremely mediocre. Never was i more disappointed in a GM. The reason being, Sather had a VERY good team in his lap and completely broke it up for no reason.
Agree we were much closer than any other year, the 08 season just missing conferance finals that i though we should have got to. What do we do, we go and overpay for guys we did not need. Its fine to rebuild and we already were with guys like Dubi, Cally, Stall all stepping in, idk what Gomez has to do with rebuilding nor Drury.

After that year we could have easily signed Jagr a couple more years along with Nylander and maybe add a top D man that you scouted not Wade Redden because he played some good hockey years ago lol. I am not arguing that Gomez is a terrible player as he does have some value but hes def was not a good signing. I would much rather have Antropov who btw the year against Wash were we went 7 games was are number 1 center with Dubi and Avery line, not Gomez or Drury. So yes it was a bad signing because we could have got as much or more from Nylander for a couple more years and add a second line center like Antropov for 3-4 mill and between the two your getting a lot better than Gomez.

Idk who the OP is but i think i will remember him for further posts lol, to argue that we had nothing from 07-09? Not to mention sayin we added to the team after that by signing Gomez, Drury and Redden is a big joke. And an asset like Gomez with that contract does not land u much, we seem we may have got lucky with Mcd but that does not happen often, i.e Drury, Redden, Holik, the list goes on.

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06-28-2011, 01:56 PM
  #41
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The reality though is buying free agents costs you nothing but the cap space that you spend on them and can be turned into other assets at least as long as you can locate just one of the other 29 GM's around the league who might give you something of value for them--in this case it was Bob Gainey. You don't spend to the ceiling--in this case if we didn't sign Gomez then we don't add McDonagh, Valentenko and we might not have Prust (part of the Higgins deal)--so the Gomez signing over the longer run has worked out nicely for us. So yeah it can be categorized as a mistake but it's a mistake that Sather turned into something very beneficial for us. Redden and Drury can be classified differently--more or less cap space wasted for Redden's entire contract and for a good half of Drury's--and no movement of either for assets from another team. For that reason those two signings completely suck.
LOL. Ya its so simple that is why Drury, Redden, Holik, Kaspar all returned us good value. The fact is your lucky this time that Gomez was a player 1 manager was willing to take on and wanted him enough to actually give up value for him. Dont get fooled that does not happen very often, and we all know that.

You also fail to mention that by signing the wrong guys like Gomez to play as a number 1 center and hes not the right guy or not cut out for that role your season is all but destroyed as you have a guy getting 7mil playing at times 2nd or 3rd line, than u have Drury who barely able to get a shift other than a faceoff and than get off and getting 7mil to do it. Your trying to tell me this doesent handicap the team hahah. You better not become a GM. You scout, u wait and u sign the right guy, you dont just sign guys because you have cap space.

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06-28-2011, 01:59 PM
  #42
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http://www.montrealgazette.com/sport...818/story.html

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06-28-2011, 02:16 PM
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Basically what you're arguing is not in the interest of the league or its owners almost all of whom I suspect are proto-capitalists albeit interested in making whatever rules they believe necessary to make the maximum profits and locking out anyone from joining their clique who doesn't fit into the right kind of profile. Professional sports team ownership is a super wealthy (wo)man's hobby--with the exception of maybe the Green Bay Packers. Just one reason why it's not in their interest would be weaker teams going out of business because they don't have the players that can attract fans to their arena's while they're mired in their losing ways. Customers have a habit in most places of not knocking the doors down when the team they root for sucks one year after another after another. After too long they start ignoring altogether their laughingstock of a team. It would be a great way to pare down the number of teams which actually I'm all for but that's not what's very likely to happen.
OK, but most of those rich proto-capitalists have huge egos and want to win. I agree that some prefer to win without the risk and sacrifice others are willing to commit. The Cap was needed to protect the owners from each other because of their spoiled rich kid egos. Regarding the draft rules for instance, I have heard managing partner Ed Snider of the Flyers say on more than one occasion that he thought the policy of rewarding LOSERS was a flawed concept. It went against the most basic concept of a sports team, which is to compete and win. It might not benefit the collective which includes the less gifted, determined and disciplined but it is hard to swallow for a competitive business man. The fans who pay the bills are more about where I am coming from. They have been abused by the League who professed that the new CBA was all about them! Let the bottom 20% fail. It is healthy to learn the hard way once in a while. Winners will take their place.

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06-28-2011, 02:22 PM
  #44
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Nice article......
Why would any team want a player who is coming off the worst season his career with seven goals, 31 assists and a minus-15 rating?

GOLDMEZ!!

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06-28-2011, 02:25 PM
  #45
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I'll have what you're drinking but not what you're smoking; clearly it's making you delusional.

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06-28-2011, 02:39 PM
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Gomez was a great signing. There was no one else in the organization and all he took up was cap space. Without his signing we don't have McDonagh or Valentenko and that's reason enough to sign Gomez.

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06-28-2011, 02:41 PM
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Gomez was a great signing. There was no one else in the organization and all he took up was cap space. Without his signing we don't have McDonagh or Valentenko and that's reason enough to sign Gomez.
That, thankfully, Montreal had a buffoon in Gainey. What if there was no Gainey?

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06-28-2011, 03:08 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by satrabyk View Post
LOL. Ya its so simple that is why Drury, Redden, Holik, Kaspar all returned us good value. The fact is your lucky this time that Gomez was a player 1 manager was willing to take on and wanted him enough to actually give up value for him. Dont get fooled that does not happen very often, and we all know that.

You also fail to mention that by signing the wrong guys like Gomez to play as a number 1 center and hes not the right guy or not cut out for that role your season is all but destroyed as you have a guy getting 7mil playing at times 2nd or 3rd line, than u have Drury who barely able to get a shift other than a faceoff and than get off and getting 7mil to do it. Your trying to tell me this doesent handicap the team hahah. You better not become a GM. You scout, u wait and u sign the right guy, you dont just sign guys because you have cap space.
Well it sounds pretty simplistic from you too. Just always get the right guy?--no matter how long or what it takes? And if there isn't a right guy?--if your team doesn't have a center who can fill a top 6 role at all?--what do you do then? Because Gomez did more or less fill that role for two years because Nylander decided to leave and if you go backwards in time in a time machine with the Rangers thinking that they'd just missed the conference finals and thinking they were on the verge of better things they really did need someone who could fill a top center role and apart from Briere there was no one else on the market--and his sidekick Drury got the 2nd line role. And if they hadn't been there who would have? LOL right back.

By the way I have 0 interest in being the Rangers GM but if I were you I wouldn't be quitting my day job either.

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06-28-2011, 03:17 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Blueblood 2 View Post
OK, but most of those rich proto-capitalists have huge egos and want to win. I agree that some prefer to win without the risk and sacrifice others are willing to commit. The Cap was needed to protect the owners from each other because of their spoiled rich kid egos. Regarding the draft rules for instance, I have heard managing partner Ed Snider of the Flyers say on more than one occasion that he thought the policy of rewarding LOSERS was a flawed concept. It went against the most basic concept of a sports team, which is to compete and win. It might not benefit the collective which includes the less gifted, determined and disciplined but it is hard to swallow for a competitive business man. The fans who pay the bills are more about where I am coming from. They have been abused by the League who professed that the new CBA was all about them! Let the bottom 20% fail. It is healthy to learn the hard way once in a while. Winners will take their place.
There are several teams that I think the league could do well without. The NHL doesn't want that. Things mostly go in cycles. We missed the playoffs 7 years in a row. Sometimes you're up and sometimes you're not. Apart from the Penguins I can't really think of another team I'd possibly suspect of ever tanking and I don't think you could really even prove Pittsburgh tanked. The way things are these days it's going to be very hard for a city to keep any team together capable of winning multiple championships--so it is more democratic. Maybe that's for the best.

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06-28-2011, 05:17 PM
  #50
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Garfinkl- I agree 100%.

Undoubtedly he took pressure of Dubinsky and the kids.

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