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Canucks trade Ehrhoff's rights to NYI (4th round pick in '12)

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06-28-2011, 05:42 PM
  #226
LeftCoast
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If Minny buys out Cam Barker - is he as bad as his numbers in Minny indicate? Seriously, this guy was a bit of an adventure in his own end with Chicago, but he had some offensive skills.

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06-28-2011, 05:43 PM
  #227
Karl Hungus
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I still think there is a good chance Gillis gets it done in the 11th hour a la Sedins. Something in the 5.2 to 5.5 range. That wold be a discount from the 6 million he could expect on the open market and would still allow Edler to be our highest paid player at 6 or so when it's time to resign him.

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06-28-2011, 05:44 PM
  #228
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Originally Posted by Karl Hungus View Post
I still think there is a good chance Gillis gets it done in the 11th hour a la Sedins. Something in the 5.2 to 5.5 range. That wold be a discount from the 6 million he could expect on the open market and would still allow Edler to be our highest paid player at 6 or so when it's time to resign him.
Can you give him more than Kessler? Has to take money similar to Bieksa to make it work for our cap management and signing of Edler next year.

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06-28-2011, 05:46 PM
  #229
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Wow, Gillis is really talking up a storm about this negotiation today; totally out of character for him. I don't exactly take that as a good sign.

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06-28-2011, 05:49 PM
  #230
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Originally Posted by Bobby Lou View Post
Wow, Gillis is really talking up a storm about this negotiation today; totally out of character for him. I don't exactly take that as a good sign.
It makes me wonder if there is still hope that he signs. Usually Gillis is pretty quiet if he intends to let a player walk eg. Willie Mitchell.

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06-28-2011, 05:50 PM
  #231
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Can you give him more than Kessler? Has to take money similar to Bieksa to make it work for our cap management and signing of Edler next year.
Can't look at the numbers in isolation like that.

For example, I wouldn't give him $5.5 million on a 5 year or longer deal with NTC but would pay him around that on a shorter term deal (3 years or less).

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06-28-2011, 05:52 PM
  #232
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Ehrhoff has his defensive lapses at times, but you just don't let the QB of the league's best powerplay walk simply because he won't take a chicken**** 'bieksa money' offer. The transition game and getting scoring from he back end is what this team is built around, and Ehrhoff is a big part of what makes that possible.

I understand that Gillis is trying to immitate the 'nobody makes more than Lidstrom' type philosophy you see in Detroit...but you just can't do that with $4.6M, and you can't do it when your bar is set at a guy who is arguably no more valuable to the team than another guy you're trying to sign.

I'll be severely disappointed if Gillis drops the ball on this one...

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06-28-2011, 05:56 PM
  #233
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Very happy see him walk if he wants over 5 mil.

Was a good run, but he is not the type of player I want us to see locked up to a big contract long term.

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06-28-2011, 05:58 PM
  #234
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Originally Posted by Bobby Lou View Post
Wow, Gillis is really talking up a storm about this negotiation today; totally out of character for him. I don't exactly take that as a good sign.
Did he negotiate publicly as a player agent? Maybe he has different tactics depending on the situation.

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06-28-2011, 06:01 PM
  #235
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Originally Posted by Eddy Punch Clock View Post
FWIW here's HW's take:
Sounds like Gillis really messed up on that one. I can understand not wanting to extend Bieksa too early because of his erratic and awful play in the previous few years. But if he could have had Ehrhoff on a sub $5 million deal in January it seems stupid for him not to at least negotiate.

I know he wanted the players to prove themselves but really, is a single good (or bad) playoff run really going to completely change a GM's mind on who he's going to commit to for 5+ years? To me it seems like Gillis basically threw away $1 million in cap space with his wait and see attitude which is arguably the same thing that happened with the Sedins.

Also not a fan of this "line in the sand" type negotiating, especially when that salary line is based on the team's 4th best but highest paid defenseman.

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06-28-2011, 06:03 PM
  #236
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Originally Posted by Barney Gumble View Post
Can't look at the numbers in isolation like that.

For example, I wouldn't give him $5.5 million on a 5 year or longer deal with NTC but would pay him around that on a shorter term deal (3 years or less).
I doubt Ehroff is considering any contract offers below 5 years. It is a logical presupposition that the term negotiated is similar to Bieksa, Hamhuis, Sedins and Kesler. For him to stay on this team he has to fit our cap structure or be exposed to the comments that Gillis is making to reporters.

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06-28-2011, 06:06 PM
  #237
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Originally Posted by opendoor View Post
Sounds like Gillis really messed up on that one. I can understand not wanting to extend Bieksa too early because of his erratic and awful play in the previous few years. But if he could have had Ehrhoff on a sub $5 million deal in January it seems stupid for him not to at least negotiate.

I know he wanted the players to prove themselves but really, is a single good (or bad) playoff run really going to completely change a GM's mind on who he's going to commit to for 5+ years? To me it seems like Gillis basically threw away $1 million in cap space with his wait and see attitude which is arguably the same thing that happened with the Sedins.

Also not a fan of this "line in the sand" type negotiating, especially when that salary line is based on the team's 4th best but highest paid defenseman.

In fairness, Ehrhoff didn't look all that stellar in last year's playoffs either. He had to be somewhat sheltered. I really do think watching these players in the playoffs is extremely important. Yes, we could have gotten Ehrhoff cheaper, but I think information is king. The more information you have on a player's form in the highest competition, the better.


I don't blame MG for waiting, and I don't think Ehrhoff helped his cause over the entire post-season.

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06-28-2011, 06:06 PM
  #238
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06-28-2011, 06:07 PM
  #239
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Quote:
Originally Posted by opendoor View Post
Sounds like Gillis really messed up on that one. I can understand not wanting to extend Bieksa too early because of his erratic and awful play in the previous few years. But if he could have had Ehrhoff on a sub $5 million deal in January it seems stupid for him not to at least negotiate.

I know he wanted the players to prove themselves but really, is a single good (or bad) playoff run really going to completely change a GM's mind on who he's going to commit to for 5+ years? To me it seems like Gillis basically threw away $1 million in cap space with his wait and see attitude which is arguably the same thing that happened with the Sedins.

Also not a fan of this "line in the sand" type negotiating, especially when that salary line is based on the team's 4th best but highest paid defenseman.
That's highly speculative...

Chances are just as good that Ehrhoff had just as much intention of getting paid well or testing free agency in January as now.

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06-28-2011, 06:17 PM
  #240
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Quote:
Originally Posted by opendoor View Post
Sounds like Gillis really messed up on that one. I can understand not wanting to extend Bieksa too early because of his erratic and awful play in the previous few years. But if he could have had Ehrhoff on a sub $5 million deal in January it seems stupid for him not to at least negotiate.

I know he wanted the players to prove themselves but really, is a single good (or bad) playoff run really going to completely change a GM's mind on who he's going to commit to for 5+ years? To me it seems like Gillis basically threw away $1 million in cap space with his wait and see attitude which is arguably the same thing that happened with the Sedins.

Also not a fan of this "line in the sand" type negotiating, especially when that salary line is based on the team's 4th best but highest paid defenseman.
Hindsight is an easy place to throw stones from, so let me try.

Ehrhoff's power play did not do so well when it mattered the most. He can be replaced. He is a SECOND pairing defensman. Do we want to tie up that much salary for a PP specialist who did not get it done in the playoffs? Look at where some of those guys are right now: the AHL.

IMO we could sign a Canadian 2 way defensmen for similar money later on. Not this year but maybe next year.

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06-28-2011, 06:18 PM
  #241
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This is not a good situation.

Ehrhoff is one of the best PP defenders in the league and the first Canuck defender in 15 years to score 50 points in a season. This team is built on our quick transition game and fast puck movement, and Ehrhoff is, amongst our defenders, the biggest part of that. And the things people are saying here about his defensive play are ridiculous – he’s logged massive minutes in every situation for this team, and the fact that he had a poor Finals (while very hurt) and a poor back end to the Chicago series doesn’t change that.

If we lose him, it’s a major step backward for the franchise in terms of our ability to contend for next season. We certainly won’t be able to replace him out of this year’s UFA pool.

And some people here have totally lost perspective. If you’re excited about another year of Keith Ballard at $4.2 million but hate the idea of Christian Ehrhoff at $5.5 million, you’re one of them.

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06-28-2011, 06:21 PM
  #242
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I hope hope hope that this is just a tactic that Gillis is using to bypass Ehrhoff's agent.

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06-28-2011, 06:23 PM
  #243
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Ehfhoff racks up PP points, but as we have seen in the Finals, it doesn't matter because they won't give us PP's anyway. 5 on 5, he is fairly mediocre defensively and isn't very physical. Frankly he isn't worth more than 5.5M, and some desperate team with almost infinite cap space out there will probably throw 7M+ at him.

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06-28-2011, 06:23 PM
  #244
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Originally Posted by MS View Post
This is not a good situation.

Ehrhoff is one of the best PP defenders in the league and the first Canuck defender in 15 years to score 50 points in a season. This team is built on our quick transition game and fast puck movement, and Ehrhoff is, amongst our defenders, the biggest part of that. And the things people are saying here about his defensive play are ridiculous – he’s logged massive minutes in every situation for this team, and the fact that he had a poor Finals (while very hurt) and a poor back end to the Chicago series doesn’t change that.

If we lose him, it’s a major step backward for the franchise in terms of our ability to contend for next season. We certainly won’t be able to replace him out of this year’s UFA pool.

And some people here have totally lost perspective. If you’re excited about another year of Keith Ballard at $4.2 million but hate the idea of Christian Ehrhoff at $5.5 million, you’re one of them.
I agree with everything you said here; as I've mentioned in previous posts my preference would have been to ditch the Bieksa contract, and pay Ehrhoff the necessary money to hang around. He's a 28 year old 50 point two-way defenseman, and those are nearly impossible to get outside of the draft or severe overpayment via free agency. Also as you said, I think his defensive deficiencies are being way, way overblown here. Ehrhoff also led our defense in point production for large parts of the playoffs, he was obviously far less effective after his shoulder injury in the Sharks series.

I still maintain replacing Bieksa by committee (keeping Ballard and signing a guy like Montador) would have been a preferable situation to trying to replace Ehrhoff. It's one thing if you have some potential puck-moving PP QB's in your pipeline, but we literally just re-stocked that portion of our prospect base a year ago, and it looks like we won't be seeing any of these picks for 2-3 years at least.

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06-28-2011, 06:27 PM
  #245
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Originally Posted by biturbo19 View Post
Ehrhoff has his defensive lapses at times, but you just don't let the QB of the league's best powerplay walk simply because he won't take a chicken**** 'bieksa money' offer. The transition game and getting scoring from he back end is what this team is built around, and Ehrhoff is a big part of what makes that possible.

I understand that Gillis is trying to immitate the 'nobody makes more than Lidstrom' type philosophy you see in Detroit...but you just can't do that with $4.6M, and you can't do it when your bar is set at a guy who is arguably no more valuable to the team than another guy you're trying to sign.

I'll be severely disappointed if Gillis drops the ball on this one...
Ehrhoff isn't the PP QB, that is clearly Henrik Sedin. Ehrhoff is way to erratic and flaky to QB an elite PP.

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06-28-2011, 06:30 PM
  #246
Barney Gumble
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Originally Posted by Hammer79 View Post
Ehfhoff racks up PP points, but as we have seen in the Finals, it doesn't matter because they won't give us PP's anyway. 5 on 5, he is fairly mediocre defensively and isn't very physical. Frankly he isn't worth more than 5.5M, and some desperate team with almost infinite cap space out there will probably throw 7M+ at him.
We had enough power plays to effect the outcome of the series. We failed to score at even an average rate on the power play (which led to the Bruins being able to take even more liberties as there would be NO consequences even if a penalty was called).

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06-28-2011, 06:32 PM
  #247
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Ehrhoff isn't the PP QB, that is clearly Henrik Sedin. Ehrhoff is way to erratic and flaky to QB an elite PP.
I'd say that Ehrhoff is our PP QB. That's probably the best thing he brings to the table and a large reason we had the number 1 PP. If we lose him, this is where we will really feel his absence. Edler has promise but he needs to take a big step forward in terms of his shot and puck handling at the point to replace Ehrhoff.

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06-28-2011, 06:33 PM
  #248
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Originally Posted by Hammer79 View Post
Ehfhoff racks up PP points, but as we have seen in the Finals, it doesn't matter because they won't give us PP's anyway. 5 on 5, he is fairly mediocre defensively and isn't very physical. Frankly he isn't worth more than 5.5M, and some desperate team with almost infinite cap space out there will probably throw 7M+ at him.
As we've seen in the finals winning without a PP is extremely difficult.

The Canucks had a crap-ton of PP opportunities against the Bruins...

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06-28-2011, 06:33 PM
  #249
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So am i reading things right on this forum?? people would rather have Bieksa at 4.6M but not Ehrhoffs cap hit of 5.5m...

This so called mental lapses is nothing comparing the last 2 years we had to endure with a solid defenceman in Bieksa.

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06-28-2011, 06:33 PM
  #250
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Anyone care to get the money puck stats? Casual glance...his even strength offense is about as good as the PP.

even: 8g 13a 21p
PP: 6g 22g 28g


Will our PP really suffer?


Quote:
Originally Posted by vanwest View Post
I'd say that Ehrhoff is our PP QB. That's probably the best thing he brings to the table and a large reason we had the number 1 PP. If we lose him, this is where we will really feel his absence. Edler has promise but he needs to take a big step forward in terms of his shot and puck handling at the point to replace Ehrhoff.
The power play runs through Henrik. Its his puck.

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