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Sens Board Prospect Rankings (2nd)

View Poll Results: Vote for our #2 prospect
Mika Zibanejad 12 8.22%
Jared Cowen 82 56.16%
Robin Lehner 41 28.08%
Nikita Filatov 10 6.85%
Matthew Puempel 0 0%
Stefan Noesen 0 0%
Jakob Silfverberg 0 0%
Bobby Butler 1 0.68%
Voters: 146. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
06-29-2011, 09:38 AM
  #26
Lexicon Devil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Immanuel View Post
Goalies who have won the calder cup at 19 have all become NHL stars. As in no exception.
And what's the sample size on that?

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06-29-2011, 09:39 AM
  #27
Cujomi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SensFan2010 View Post
If we're going to rank these guys based on potential, then Cowen should be topping this list quite easily. Rundblad is our top prospect because he's more proven, but Cowen has unique package of size, skill and skating that no other prospect has.
We'll have to agree to disagree. Lehner has proven more than Cowen too, but he's not up there. Rundblad is big (at least 6'3, 200+) a much better skater than Cowen, and has a ridiculous package in terms of skill. Filatov and Puempel could be star goal-scoring wingers one with flashy speed and insane hands the other with great positioning, pure goalscoring and the willingness to get dirty at the net. Zibanejad is just the total package. I don't think Cowen's top end is as high as those guys.

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06-29-2011, 09:40 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lexicon Devil View Post
And what's the sample size on that?
If there was sample size it wouldn't be an exceptional feat...

(if you're not being sarcastic it happened 4 times)

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06-29-2011, 09:43 AM
  #29
Lexicon Devil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Immanuel View Post
If there was sample size it wouldn't be an exceptional feat...
Well the sample size is only two (Roy and Price) so it's meaningless to extrapolate from it.

Quote:
(if you're not being sarcastic it happened 4 times)
Who else?

"Lehner joins Carey Price and Patrick Roy as the only teenage goaltenders to capture the Calder Cup in the past 50 years."
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/2011/...nators_lehner/

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06-29-2011, 09:50 AM
  #30
Clive Barley
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean Vernon View Post
So goalies are not more volatile as prospects compared to dmen / fwds?

There is a reason NHL teams rarely pick goalies in the first round, even though it is probably the most important position in Hockey.
I'm saying just because he's a goalie doesn't mean you should discount his accomplishments.

I would say part of the reason NHL teams rarely pick goalies in the first round is because there are far fewer of them, thus even less top prospects. In the CHL alone there are 59 teams, that's 59 goalies vs 1062 skaters. And take how many of them are actually draft eligible, doesnt leave you with many. Add to that those playing overseas, US Dev Programs, High school etc...

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06-29-2011, 09:57 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lexicon Devil View Post
Well the sample size is only two (Roy and Price) so it's meaningless to extrapolate from it.



Who else?

"Lehner joins Carey Price and Patrick Roy as the only teenage goaltenders to capture the Calder Cup in the past 50 years."
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/2011/...nators_lehner/
The others are Lehner and gordie bell in 1943. (turns out Bell wasn't exactly an NHL star. Cherry said he was a real good goalie but he was more of a career AHLer lol)

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06-29-2011, 09:57 AM
  #32
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I voted Cowen, Lehner could be our greatest player in the future, but goalies have it harder. AHL MVP is outstanding, the way he did it was insane, but if i remember correctly in the NHL he has looked a little out of place in his games. While Cowen playing at the level up (whether his few games with Ottawa or jumping straight into the AHL play-offs) has looked like he belonged. Basically Cowen IMO is more likely to have a positive effect on the big club, but Lehner's might be massive.

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06-29-2011, 10:02 AM
  #33
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Cow man.

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06-29-2011, 10:03 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clive Barley View Post
I would say part of the reason NHL teams rarely pick goalies in the first round is because there are far fewer of them, thus even less top prospects. In the CHL alone there are 59 teams, that's 59 goalies vs 1062 skaters. And take how many of them are actually draft eligible, doesnt leave you with many. Add to that those playing overseas, US Dev Programs, High school etc...
Your math is off. 10% of all roster players are goalies, so if all else were equal then they would comprise 10% of all picks. They are a bit less than that (18 goalies in first round in past decade), but that could just be statistical noise.

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06-29-2011, 10:04 AM
  #35
Clive Barley
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trigun View Post
Cow man.
is the enlgish translation for Lehner I'm pretty sure.

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06-29-2011, 10:27 AM
  #36
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Our top 3 is obviously Rundblad, Cowen and Lehner. Once this one is over, just start #4.

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06-29-2011, 10:27 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CPhoenixM View Post
We'll have to agree to disagree. Lehner has proven more than Cowen too, but he's not up there. Rundblad is big (at least 6'3, 200+) a much better skater than Cowen, and has a ridiculous package in terms of skill. Filatov and Puempel could be star goal-scoring wingers one with flashy speed and insane hands the other with great positioning, pure goalscoring and the willingness to get dirty at the net. Zibanejad is just the total package. I don't think Cowen's top end is as high as those guys.
Cowen is elite skater, and probably ends up being around 6'6 240-250 when it's all said and done. I'm not saying those other guys aren't good prospects, because they are, but none of them has that elite package of size and skating ability that Cowen possesses. We have so much elite talent in our ranks at the moment that it's impossible to say who ends up being the best of the bunch, but I'm going with Cowen.

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06-29-2011, 10:35 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SensFan2010 View Post
Cowen is elite skater, and probably ends up being around 6'6 240-250 when it's all said and done. I'm not saying those other guys aren't good prospects, because they are, but none of them has that elite package of size and skating ability that Cowen possesses. We have so much elite talent in our ranks at the moment that it's impossible to say who ends up being the best of the bunch, but I'm going with Cowen.
The bolded part BLEW ME AWAY when I saw him live and up close yesterday at the development camp. His skating was so fluid, effortless, and powerful for a big man. Moreso than Rundblad IMO (and I love DR7) from what I saw.

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06-29-2011, 10:39 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SensFan2010 View Post
Cowen is elite skater, and probably ends up being around 6'6 240-250 when it's all said and done. I'm not saying those other guys aren't good prospects, because they are, but none of them has that elite package of size and skating ability that Cowen possesses. We have so much elite talent in our ranks at the moment that it's impossible to say who ends up being the best of the bunch, but I'm going with Cowen.
I'm not sure if you're arguing that Cowen is a better skater than Rundblad, but he definitely is not. Rundblad also lays down huge hits and isn't bad defensively, while his offensive instincts are lightyears over Cowen. Rundblad with decent defence will be the best defenceman we've ever had I think.

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06-29-2011, 10:40 AM
  #40
Clive Barley
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabriel Landeskog View Post
Our top 3 is obviously Rundblad, Cowen and Lehner. Once this one is over, just start #4.
I'm sure some people out there are dying to put Zbad at 3.

Lehner hate makes baby jesus cry

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06-29-2011, 10:46 AM
  #41
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Robin Lehner

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06-29-2011, 10:51 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CPhoenixM View Post
I'm not sure if you're arguing that Cowen is a better skater than Rundblad, but he definitely is not. Rundblad also lays down huge hits and isn't bad defensively, while his offensive instincts are lightyears over Cowen. Rundblad with decent defence will be the best defenceman we've ever had I think.
No, I'm not saying that Cowen's skating is better than Rundblad's. My sample size is quite limited and it would be silly to pass judgement based on 1 or 2 viewings. That said, I was seriously blown away by Cowen's skating ability yesterday and would say he looked WAY more comfortable on the ice in comparison to DR7.

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06-29-2011, 11:05 AM
  #43
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add Wiercioch

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06-29-2011, 11:15 AM
  #44
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I wasn't surprised that Rundblad beat Lehner in the poll for #1.

But you guys are gonna put Cowen over Lehner too? The AHL MVP of the playoffs and cornerstone of the Calder Cup run (doing it all as a teenager)? I must be missing something.

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06-29-2011, 11:38 AM
  #45
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In regards to Cowen over Lehner, one has to remember the unpredictability of goaltending and particularly goaltending prospects. On the opposite end of the spectrum you have a big mobile defenseman in Cowen who is easy to project as a regular NHLer. His combination of size and skating make him unique and he's likely going to be a big minute D down the road.

I'd say when comparing them, you can say that Lehner has the greater upside as a top 10 goaltender while Cowen is more likely to become a great #2 shutdown D. The difference in their value lies in the likelihood of them realizing their potential and their downside IMO. I would not trade Cowen straight up for Lehner, and I'd bet that most people feel that way. Cowen is just more valuable as an NHL ready Dman at this point.

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06-29-2011, 11:39 AM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SevenOfSpades View Post
I wasn't surprised that Rundblad beat Lehner in the poll for #1.

But you guys are gonna put Cowen over Lehner too? The AHL MVP of the playoffs and cornerstone of the Calder Cup run (doing it all as a teenager)? I must be missing something.
Goalies are much more of a wildcard than forwards or defenceman. Cowen is much more of a "sure thing" than Lehner is.

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06-29-2011, 11:51 AM
  #47
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In order for a goalie to be a valuable asset, he pretty much has to become one of the top 15-20 goalies in the world. Honestly, what are the odds Lehner becomes a top-15 goalie? I think they are still pretty low, so I don't value him as highly as a guy like Cowen or Zibanejad, who are quite likely to become solid NHL players, and also have a good deal of upside themselves. Some of you guys seem to think Lehner is almost a sure bet - that's fine, but I think you are extrapolating too much from a 14-game sample.

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06-29-2011, 12:11 PM
  #48
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I voted Cowen, I'd add Wiercioch or Stone.

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06-29-2011, 12:25 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CPhoenixM View Post
I think people are overrating Cowen a bit.

Lehner, Zibanejad, Puempel and Filatov all have more potential.
If you're looking solely at potential, then there's no question Filatov is our #1 prospect.

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06-29-2011, 12:30 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SensFan2010 View Post
If we're going to rank these guys based on potential, then Cowen should be topping this list quite easily. Rundblad is our top prospect because he's more proven, but Cowen has unique package of size, skill and skating that no other prospect has.
I really don't think you can say Rundblad is proven when he hasn't even played on North American ice yet. Yes, the SEL is the second best league in the world, but it's a completely different style of hockey. Cowen dominated the juniors, and performed very well in his short AHL stint. There is no question to me that Cowen will, at the very least, be a top 4 defender. I still have questions about Rundblad.

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