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With the #28 pick in the first round, Wild select Zack Phillips (now signed to ELC)

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06-29-2011, 11:18 AM
  #76
bozak911
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Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
Scandella and Zidlicky can move the puck. The jury's out on Cuma and Prosser but they have the skills/numbers behind it.

Keep in mind Johnsson was an amazing PMD. Burns didn't get close to his ability until last year IMO.
I wouldn't even necessarily say that Zidlicky is a good PMD. Sure, he can bank the puck off the glass to clear the zone and advance it, but he's not a "crisp, first pass out of the zone" type of D-man.

Scandella could be a PMD, but his offensive game isn't as strong as some people make it out to be. He and Cuma are both projected to be more like Nick Schultz than a Kim Johnsson.

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06-29-2011, 11:23 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
I think we'll be surprised next year. From what I saw the kid had great patience for a rookie, can skate well, and had good hands. If he uses that reach along with those tools, he'll be able to move the puck pretty well. I don't think that will be his primary role though.
I will be pleasantly surprised for sure. He did take up an offensive role in Vald'or (however you spell it), but at the end of the day, its just the cherry on the top. Like you said, it won't be his main game so that is why I arguing the Wild really don't have a Wild prospect that has an extremely good PMD game (except now with Brodin)

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06-29-2011, 11:50 AM
  #78
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Zidlicky can skate the puck pretty decent, it's his decision making which is suspect on the passes. Still the last two years were such a complete disaster in terms of coaching that it's tough to tell. He looked good at the Olympics and was good under Lemaire.

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06-29-2011, 12:47 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Bookman View Post
Maybe the Wild got the next Jason Allison.
How long did Jason Allison last after the lockout and the crackdown on obstruction. Same goes for Mark Parrish. What killed them? Their skating...

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06-29-2011, 12:50 PM
  #80
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Scandella is a decent puck mover, and has some flash and dash to his game too. Or did you forget his great initiative in the Wild's first OT win this season? Zidlicky certainly is a puck mover; because if he's not then why did we pay him $4 million a season?

I'd throw Chay Genoway onto this list; he certainly can move the puck. We have guys that make the first pass and can carry it up the ice; but may not be that gifted in the offensive zone like Schultz, Spurgeon. So yea we have 3-4 guys that can do this already. Perhaps not as good as Brodin but was that really the Wild's biggest failing or was it the fact they were 26th in the league in goals scored?

By the way...isn't this topic about Phillips? Does someone have to call the board police?

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06-29-2011, 12:59 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LemaireisGOD View Post
Scandella is a decent puck mover, and has some flash and dash to his game too. Or did you forget his great initiative in the Wild's first OT win this season? Zidlicky certainly is a puck mover; because if he's not then why did we pay him $4 million a season?

I'd throw Chay Genoway onto this list; he certainly can move the puck. We have guys that make the first pass and can carry it up the ice; but may not be that gifted in the offensive zone like Schultz, Spurgeon. So yea we have 3-4 guys that can do this already. Perhaps not as good as Brodin but was that really the Wild's biggest failing or was it the fact they were 26th in the league in goals scored?

By the way...isn't this topic about Phillips? Does someone have to call the board police?
IMO, the Wild's biggest failing is not just a specific area but a widespread of below average talent.

We don't have any top puckmoving talent, top offensive scoring talent, top scoring defenseman talent, top playmaking talent.

We have tons of depth guys but no one that has the potential to be a top pairing defenseman or top six forward. Picking Brodin filled a need, which was just a lack of top end talent (at all positions)

We have Granlund but having just one top prospect is not exactly reassuring.

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06-29-2011, 01:07 PM
  #82
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You forgot Charlie Coyle. We have him too. Scoring is this team's biggest problem; it is what separates the Wild from the rest of the league. Its been a problem from the start. The puck moving stuff, meh...that's a secondary problem compared to the need for this team to score more goals. Solve the goal scoring issue and THEN worry about the puck moving issue. We have other puck movers in the system whether you wish to acknowledge that or not.

So is a slow forward really going to help solve this 'high end talent deficiency' as you imply?

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06-29-2011, 01:10 PM
  #83
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Maybe. Maybe not. That's why they are called "prospects".

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06-29-2011, 01:11 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LemaireisGOD View Post
How long did Jason Allison last after the lockout and the crackdown on obstruction. Same goes for Mark Parrish. What killed them? Their skating...
No, what killed Allison was injuries.

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06-29-2011, 01:18 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by LemaireisGOD View Post
You forgot Charlie Coyle. We have him too. Scoring is this team's biggest problem; it is what separates the Wild from the rest of the league. Its been a problem from the start. The puck moving stuff, meh...that's a secondary problem compared to the need for this team to score more goals. Solve the goal scoring issue and THEN worry about the puck moving issue. We have other puck movers in the system whether you wish to acknowledge that or not.

So is a slow forward really going to help solve this 'high end talent deficiency' as you imply?
Well Coyle was acquired AFTER the Brodin pick so that doesn't really count.

Thing is, we are trying to fix the problems in the prospect pool, not on the pro roster. Drafting to fix needs on the pro roster is not the way to go. By the time Brodin (or whoever you wanted at #10) will make the Wild, who knows, Koivu, Schultz, Havlat might all be traded.

However, I do believe in fixing organizational needs within the prospect pipeline. The Wild need talent. Just talent. We just had one prospect that could make a top six forward/top four d impact with that team, and that was Granlund. We just needed to draft someone the scouts thought could make an impact in some way or form (I certainly didn't think Burns would leave the Wild for awhile)

And they just happen to decide on Brodin. And I'm happy with the pick. Was he the one I was rooting for? No. I was hoping for Murphy or Baertschi at the time but I can fully appreciate what makes Brodin an intriguing prospect: combination of mobility, high hockey IQ, displayed good play against veterans and in a good situation where he will continue playing veterans but with in a larger capacity.

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06-29-2011, 01:24 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bookman View Post
No, what killed Allison was injuries.
It certainly hurt him, but he was available after the lockout and just about no one wanted a slow forward who was only really useful in the offensive zone. Anyone could've had him, even the Wild. Skating was the reason the whole league took a pass and forced him to retire.

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06-29-2011, 01:27 PM
  #87
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The Brodin thread is elsewhere, ok?

Quote:
Originally Posted by danccchan View Post
Well Coyle was acquired AFTER the Brodin pick so that doesn't really count.

Thing is, we are trying to fix the problems in the prospect pool, not on the pro roster. Drafting to fix needs on the pro roster is not the way to go. By the time Brodin (or whoever you wanted at #10) will make the Wild, who knows, Koivu, Schultz, Havlat might all be traded.

However, I do believe in fixing organizational needs within the prospect pipeline. The Wild need talent. Just talent. We just had one prospect that could make a top six forward/top four d impact with that team, and that was Granlund. We just needed to draft someone the scouts thought could make an impact in some way or form (I certainly didn't think Burns would leave the Wild for awhile)

And they just happen to decide on Brodin. And I'm happy with the pick. Was he the one I was rooting for? No. I was hoping for Murphy or Baertschi at the time but I can fully appreciate what makes Brodin an intriguing prospect: combination of mobility, high hockey IQ, displayed good play against veterans and in a good situation where he will continue playing veterans but with in a larger capacity.
This thread is about Zack Phillips, and Coyle was acquired BEFORE we drafted Phillips.

Do we have plenty of goal scoring forwards in our prospect pool? Didn't think so. So again, are they addressing the right problem?

Was Phillips the best goal scorer (and you must keep the intent of the team to be a more up-tempo squad in mind) with the mix of mobility available at #28? I would argue there were other options that better fit that paradigm than Zack Phillips.

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06-29-2011, 01:33 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LemaireisGOD View Post
This thread is about Zack Phillips, and Coyle was acquired BEFORE we drafted Phillips.

Do we have plenty of goal scoring forwards in our prospect pool? Didn't think so. So again, are they addressing the right problem?

Was Phillips the best goal scorer (and you must keep the intent of the team to be a more up-tempo squad in mind) with the mix of mobility available at #28? I would argue there were other options that better fit that paradigm than Zack Phillips.
Which other options at #28 would you have rather have? From my point of view, Phillips was one of the better offensive options left in the draft at the time.

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06-29-2011, 01:50 PM
  #89
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Perhaps...

Tomas Jurco, Nicklas Jensen, Rocco Grimaldi, Brandon Saad were all guys I probably would've liked more than Phillips. He certainly was inmy top 10 available at that but more like #6 or #7 on the list.

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06-29-2011, 01:51 PM
  #90
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Great. Bump this thread in 4-6 years and we'll have a nice talk.

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06-29-2011, 01:55 PM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LemaireisGOD View Post
Tomas Jurco, Nicklas Jensen, Rocco Grimaldi, Brandon Saad were all guys I probably would've liked more than Phillips.
Jurco - I can see how people like him. Tons of skill, but inconsistent.
Jensen - Like Jurco, tons of skill, inconsistent.
Grimaldi - Has done everything, just lacks size
Saad - I just don't like him.

I was rooting for the Wild to pick Grimaldi as well. Had him top 20. But all of those picks have glaring weaknesses. Inconsistency or size. Phillips weakness is skating.

So I don't agree when you say Phillips was a bad pick. At #28, all of those prospects have a big weakness (or multiple). It is a situation of "pick your poison".

Was he the one I was rooting for? No. But I can see the appeal and appreciate what he can possible bring to the Wild.

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06-29-2011, 02:21 PM
  #92
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The thing with Phillips though was that he had top 10 stats. At #28, production-wise, he's a steal. The question is if he can take that to the next level. That's the question. Nobody can answer that but time.

And yes I was rooting for Grimaldi too.

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06-29-2011, 02:36 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
The thing with Phillips though was that he had top 10 stats. At #28, production-wise, he's a steal. The question is if he can take that to the next level. That's the question. Nobody can answer that but time.

And yes I was rooting for Grimaldi too.
As well as the question of whether his #'s were enhanced by the team he played for. If you put him on the Baie-Comeau Drakkar how many points would he have had??

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06-29-2011, 02:41 PM
  #94
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Impossible to answer. Do the same with Huberdeau, and maybe his stats dip as well. You make your judgements on players in the situations that they are in, not other possibilities.

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06-29-2011, 02:46 PM
  #95
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Impossible to answer. Do the same with Huberdeau, and maybe his stats dip as well. You make your judgements on players in the situations that they are in, not other possibilities.
Nah, that's very valid. Because unless the Wild have that kind of offense could we expect Phillips to produce the same way. Sheppard put up very similar totals with Cape Breton, take him off of that team and in a different league, what did we see from a 6'1" forward with limited foot speed???

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06-29-2011, 03:00 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by LemaireisGOD View Post
Nah, that's very valid. Because unless the Wild have that kind of offense could we expect Phillips to produce the same way. Sheppard put up very similar totals with Cape Breton, take him off of that team and in a different league, what did we see from a 6'1" forward with limited foot speed???
Yeah, but it's a complete hypothetical, which can not and will never be proven (unless he's traded there). It has no basis in facts. Hypotheticals are a great way to not prove a point, but not be wrong either. Again, Huberdeau was the 3rd overall pick, why aren't his point totals disregarded?

Hopefully this regime won't make the same developmental mistakes that the last on made with Shep and we can (somewhat) see what could've been.

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06-29-2011, 03:09 PM
  #97
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It's valid but again, only time will tell. Still you can't be a complete dolt and score nearly 100 points.

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06-29-2011, 03:14 PM
  #98
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Yeah, but it's a complete hypothetical, which can not and will never be proven (unless he's traded there). It has no basis in facts. Hypotheticals are a great way to not prove a point, but not be wrong either. Again, Huberdeau was the 3rd overall pick, why aren't his point totals disregarded?

Hopefully this regime won't make the same developmental mistakes that the last on made with Shep and we can (somewhat) see what could've been.
Veilleux had those kinds of numbers as well and footspeed wasn't as big of an issue for him; his hands were another story...that's why I think typically prospects out of the Q are treated with more skepticism.

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06-29-2011, 03:24 PM
  #99
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Veilleux had those kinds of numbers as well and footspeed wasn't as big of an issue for him; his hands were another story...that's why I think typically prospects out of the Q are treated with more skepticism.
Skepticism I can handle. It just sounded before that you were disregarding his production completely. Aside from Crosby, I think all QMJHL players are looked at a little closer (which is also why I think Couturier fell a bit).

In fact, I think I might've been the first to bring up the Sheppard comparison (same size, a bit slower, similar point totals in draft year). Only this time, we will definitely be more patient with Phillips. I'm actually kind of rooting for Huberdeau to make Florida's roster, so we can get a better idea of what kind of player Phillips is.

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06-29-2011, 06:59 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by LemaireisGOD View Post
Tomas Jurco, Nicklas Jensen, Rocco Grimaldi, Brandon Saad were all guys I probably would've liked more than Phillips. He certainly was inmy top 10 available at that but more like #6 or #7 on the list.
Are you just going to rip on every pick? Your list equals squat, you are not a professional scout. Try GM Mode on NHL 11


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