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too many defenseman means somethings gotta give

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Old
06-29-2011, 07:59 AM
  #126
Black Tank
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Originally Posted by jas View Post
Yeah, that's how I figured it out when he first started posting here. You know. it's been so long, I vaguely remember seeing your handle there, and I apologize for not recognizing it sooner. Do you still go there, because I give it up about three or so years ago.
I'm going to start going back now. The Wall has a different, more win-it-all now feel and if it's calmed down then it can be a good discussion.

Back on topic, I am getting very excited about the dman corp, this reminds me a lot of when the Hawks turned their pathetic franchise around, it started with reports of the emergence of Keith and Seabrook. (I know, I know, they got the benefit of tanking picks, but still I like building from the net out).

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06-29-2011, 08:02 AM
  #127
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Originally Posted by jas View Post
And, that's why it made a lot of sense to move Grachev. With acquisition of Erixon, I really do not expect Valentenko to make next year's team.
Could we boost his value by starting him on the bottom pair with Erixon and keep MDZ in HFD for the start of the season? Who knows he could pull a Girardi or Sauer and force us to make room for him...

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06-29-2011, 08:18 AM
  #128
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Originally Posted by Black Tank View Post
I'm going to start going back now. The Wall has a different, more win-it-all now feel and if it's calmed down then it can be a good discussion.

Back on topic, I am getting very excited about the dman corp, this reminds me a lot of when the Hawks turned their pathetic franchise around, it started with reports of the emergence of Keith and Seabrook. (I know, I know, they got the benefit of tanking picks, but still I like building from the net out).

And, remember, Keith was a 2nd round pick, while Seabrook went mid-1st round. In two or three tears, the Rangers could potentially ice five former 1st round picks.

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06-29-2011, 10:58 AM
  #129
Larry Melnyk
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Originally Posted by Black Tank View Post
I'm going to start going back now. The Wall has a different, more win-it-all now feel and if it's calmed down then it can be a good discussion.

Back on topic, I am getting very excited about the dman corp, this reminds me a lot of when the Hawks turned their pathetic franchise around, it started with reports of the emergence of Keith and Seabrook. (I know, I know, they got the benefit of tanking picks, but still I like building from the net out).
I've always been a defense-first guy and love what the Rangers have in their defense....You throw in Erixon, Mcilrath,Valatenko, Del Zorro and others with the 4 young holdovers from last year and the future on D is indeed very, very bright...But, the present can be also, if they upgrade it with an offensive D-man/PP guy (alla Babchuk, Wisnewski, Kaberle, etc..) and maybe even a 3rd pair defensiove vet type....I'm just not a fan of DZ, especially as THE offensive d-man... I think one day he will be very good but for now belongs in the AHL learning the defensive, positional and mental game..

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06-29-2011, 12:09 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by Larry Melnyk View Post
I've always been a defense-first guy and love what the Rangers have in their defense....You throw in Erixon, Mcilrath,Valatenko, Del Zorro and others with the 4 young holdovers from last year and the future on D is indeed very, very bright...But, the present can be also, if they upgrade it with an offensive D-man/PP guy (alla Babchuk, Wisnewski, Kaberle, etc..) and maybe even a 3rd pair defensiove vet type....I'm just not a fan of DZ, especially as THE offensive d-man... I think one day he will be very good but for now belongs in the AHL learning the defensive, positional and mental game..
I have no problem with MDZ spending at least the start of the season in HFD either. The problem is that I think guys like Wiz and Kaberle suck defensively, a bit like McCabe at the end of last season. Especially if we miss out on Richards, I'm not sure we can afford an offensive specialist who's a heart attack on D as we need to keep games tight.

I'd be happy to start the 3d pairing with Erixon and Valentenko (if they impress in camp) and at least get some rookie development in exchange for the heart attack defense.

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06-29-2011, 02:30 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by Black Tank View Post
I have no problem with MDZ spending at least the start of the season in HFD either. The problem is that I think guys like Wiz and Kaberle suck defensively, a bit like McCabe at the end of last season. Especially if we miss out on Richards, I'm not sure we can afford an offensive specialist who's a heart attack on D as we need to keep games tight.

I'd be happy to start the 3d pairing with Erixon and Valentenko (if they impress in camp) and at least get some rookie development in exchange for the heart attack defense.
This is where we disagree..Personally, i don't care about rookie development, I care about winning..where we also disagree is on gusy liek Wiz and kaberle who I don't think suck defensively (like DZ)....I could live with a guy like Erixon forcing his way onto the back 6 but if we sign Richards, that means the team should mean business..and that is not done with guys like Erixon AND valatenko (or another youngster) on the back line..If you want to see kids develop and live with mistakes, DO NOT sign Richars or any top FA...

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06-29-2011, 02:35 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Larry Melnyk View Post
This is where we disagree..Personally, i don't care about rookie development, I care about winning..where we also disagree is on gusy liek Wiz and kaberle who I don't think suck defensively (like DZ)....I could live with a guy like Erixon forcing his way onto the back 6 but if we sign Richards, that means the team should mean business..and that is not done with guys like Erixon AND valatenko (or another youngster) on the back line..If you want to see kids develop and live with mistakes, DO NOT sign Richars or any top FA...
I don't know if you've seen Valentenko play (my guess, based on this post is no), but he's not some rookie fresh out of juniors. He's not going to be making a lot of mistakes. Frankly, the same goes for Erixon, who played big minutes in the SEL.

These are not Del Zottos. They have more experience, and a much better grasp of the fundamentals. Don't think Del Zotto. Think Sauer, who in his "rookie" season was the best poised defenseman on our blueline last season. Made the least mistakes, made the best decisions, and did so consistently.

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06-29-2011, 02:46 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
I don't know if you've seen Valentenko play (my guess, based on this post is no), but he's not some rookie fresh out of juniors. He's not going to be making a lot of mistakes. Frankly, the same goes for Erixon, who played big minutes in the SEL.

These are not Del Zottos. They have more experience, and a much better grasp of the fundamentals. Don't think Del Zotto. Think Sauer, who in his "rookie" season was the best poised defenseman on our blueline last season. Made the least mistakes, made the best decisions, and did so consistently.
I've seen them play a little...And I actually like both, especially Erixon....And I expect both (if not traded) to be a big part of the future....Yes, they are more fundamentally sound then DZ (who isn't??) but they are still young, inexperienced and have played against limited competition.....There will be an NHL learning curve....And, i'm not up for that if you (the rangers) are going to spend big money on a guy like Richards..Now, if not, and this will be another one of the countless "development" years and biding time..then no problem with youngsters throughtout the entire backline..

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06-29-2011, 02:49 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by Larry Melnyk View Post
I've seen them play a little...And I actually like both, especially Erixon....And I expect both (if not traded) to be a big part of the future....Yes, they are more fundamentally sound then DZ (who isn't??) but they are still young, inexperienced and have played against limited competition.....There will be an NHL learning curve....And, i'm not up for that if you (the rangers) are going to spend big money on a guy like Richards..Now, if not, and this will be another one of the countless "development" years and biding time..then no problem with youngsters throughtout the entire backline..
If we get Richards, I don't really think that 2011-12 is the year where the Rangers are seriously going to go for it. I think that will begin to happen in 2012-13, when all bad contracts are off the books and some of our top young players will be able to come into the lineup and augment what our veterans are doing. Don't forget that practically every great team in today's NHL has very good young guys on entry level deals as big contributors.

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06-29-2011, 03:14 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
If we get Richards, I don't really think that 2011-12 is the year where the Rangers are seriously going to go for it. I think that will begin to happen in 2012-13, when all bad contracts are off the books and some of our top young players will be able to come into the lineup and augment what our veterans are doing. Don't forget that practically every great team in today's NHL has very good young guys on entry level deals as big contributors.
I think if you sign Richards, you go for it when he is at his best, which will probably be the next two years...I honestly think that with Richards to go along with Gaborik, the complimentary forwards (many who are young), and a steady (and fairly young) defense, you only need a guarenteed offensive D-man/PP QB to be a real serious contender to win the East ala Boston this year...Why not go for it rather then counting on the uncertianities of the future?

And believe me, even if the Rangers sign an offensive d-man, guys like Erixon and Valaentko (after proving their mettle like McDonagh did) will get playing time (maybe significant) in the NHL due to injuries and lack of performance...

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06-29-2011, 03:55 PM
  #136
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and one more thing on vtank.

when he played in the A, i believe he was voted the nastiest dman in the league. he is exactly the type of player everyone is hoping mcilrath becomes.

big, nasty, chippy, and miserable to play against. he already that plus a lot of shot blocking and a bigtime slapshot.

hes not a kid learning his trade. he doesnt skate as well as some of the other d prospects, but hes certainly capable of a simple defense first 3rd pair minutes type game while doling out his fair share of pain.

that would go along way to improving our defense in and around hanks crease.

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06-29-2011, 04:09 PM
  #137
Larry Melnyk
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
and one more thing on vtank.

when he played in the A, i believe he was voted the nastiest dman in the league. he is exactly the type of player everyone is hoping mcilrath becomes.

big, nasty, chippy, and miserable to play against. he already that plus a lot of shot blocking and a bigtime slapshot.

hes not a kid learning his trade. he doesnt skate as well as some of the other d prospects, but hes certainly capable of a simple defense first 3rd pair minutes type game while doling out his fair share of pain.

that would go along way to improving our defense in and around hanks crease.
Good words On Vtank...but the skating part is a key when a rookie steps up to the NHL----even for a physical 3rd pairing guy....Even if he's not a kid learning his trade, he still may need some more work..But maybe not, he had a good camp last year.....This years camp should be where things are decided by merit...It should be a healthy competiton with all the youngsters and, I'm betting, one or two more veterans (and hopefully an offensive PP d-man!)..

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06-30-2011, 06:33 AM
  #138
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Originally Posted by Larry Melnyk View Post
Good words On Vtank...but the skating part is a key when a rookie steps up to the NHL----even for a physical 3rd pairing guy....Even if he's not a kid learning his trade, he still may need some more work..But maybe not, he had a good camp last year.....This years camp should be where things are decided by merit...It should be a healthy competiton with all the youngsters and, I'm betting, one or two more veterans (and hopefully an offensive PP d-man!)..
If we get Richards, would we be able to fit in an established PMD dman like Kaberle for cap purposes? It's possible that we will have to bite the bullet and use rookies on ELCs for cap reasons alone.

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