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With the #28 pick in the first round, Wild select Zack Phillips (now signed to ELC)

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Old
06-29-2011, 06:15 PM
  #101
Surly Furious
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LemaireisGOD View Post
This thread is about Zack Phillips, and Coyle was acquired BEFORE we drafted Phillips.

Do we have plenty of goal scoring forwards in our prospect pool? Didn't think so. So again, are they addressing the right problem?

Was Phillips the best goal scorer (and you must keep the intent of the team to be a more up-tempo squad in mind) with the mix of mobility available at #28? I would argue there were other options that better fit that paradigm than Zack Phillips.
Obviously the Wild go best player available rather than drafting for need.

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06-29-2011, 06:45 PM
  #102
LemaireisGOD
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Wait just a sec...

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Originally Posted by Bookman View Post
Obviously the Wild WENT WITH WHO THEY FELT WAS best player available rather than drafting for need.
Fixed it for you. We don't know if we got the best player available yet. I have strong skepticism over Phillips' selection, I think I've made it obvious. Yet, and what just about EVERYONE has completely ignored was that I said I hope I'm wrong. I want the Wild to hit home runs with every pick, but I call them as I see them.

You may not like my lists, or suggest I go be a GM in NHL '11 (which by the way is pretty lame in that regard) but as Dr. Jan Itor stated, that's why they're prospects. They take time to develop, but if Phillips becomes the next James Sheppard or as the stars from St. John's leave and his production drops considerably I hope you have the level of objectivity to call the organization out for a poor pick. I know I certainly will.

For the record, I like Phillips offensive totals and his ability to finish near the net. I just question whether his skating will turn him into a liability or not allow him to fit with the team's style of play. I watched Phillips pretty closely in the Memorial Cup and his skating was painful to watch, but just like the Hockey News scout said, "A lot of people knock his skating but at the end of the day all the kid does is put up points." I hope he keeps putting up points because everything he does that way will benefit the Wild in some way.

So for anyone who is annoyed by my questioning I am not going to apologize. Because when we as fans stop being skeptical then we give into whatever ownership wants. Its only healthy to question and analyze.

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06-29-2011, 07:30 PM
  #103
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It's healthy to question and analyze, but there's a reason that phrase doesn't fit any of your posts...

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06-29-2011, 07:35 PM
  #104
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I think we got the best skater in the first round, and the worst.

We'll get to see some of this in camp--can't wait! I wonder who the surprise will be...I'm expecting Zucker and Bulmer to look good. Never really watched Coyle so don't know what to expect there. I was blown away by Spurgie last year--i'd be stoked if we had an invitee come in and look that good again, too.

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06-29-2011, 07:36 PM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squidz View Post
It's healthy to question and analyze, but there's a reason that phrase doesn't fit any of your posts...
It's closer to question and scrutinize than question and analyze. Are Brodin or Phillips going to develop into superstar players? Who knows. Both have some holes in their game. We, as fans, are supposed to realize those hole and hope that they improve and/or overcome them. Not knock them simply because they have them.

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06-29-2011, 07:54 PM
  #106
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Draft 2011

Zack Phillips skating is being drastically under rated..........his top end speed is very good, his 1-2-3 is average, he centered the #1 line in CDN junior hockey and the team that ultimately won the Mem Cup, he is a player.
He was a point a game guy in his first season in junior hockey afer Xmas playing 4th line minutes and his improvement from year to year was so drastic he leap froged to the 1 st line.
Prior to Major junior hockey, he played prep hockey in Massachusetts and was the top scoring sophmore in New England--finishing a mere 4 points behind Chris Kredier in the same league, and kreiders draft year was 2 years ago..
Gerard Gallant would tell you this guy distribution of the puck is a key reason why Huberdeau went from 35 points to 105 and Galiev went from scoring 8 even strength goals to 35.
This kid does not have the WOW factor but is a very good player whose hockey IQ is off the charts, think Adam Oates with alot of grit..

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06-29-2011, 08:19 PM
  #107
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Who cares if we do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BuddyMcCormick View Post
It's closer to question and scrutinize than question and analyze. Are Brodin or Phillips going to develop into superstar players? Who knows. Both have some holes in their game. We, as fans, are supposed to realize those hole and hope that they improve and/or overcome them. Not knock them simply because they have them.
If they're unable to do something, or do not do something adequately that is all a part of the analysis. Now we can analyze if he's improved or if he's still at that same level. At the end of the day he'll have to improve if he wants to the play with the Wild. Yet if he doesn't make it; and we (as fans) point out why...there is nothing wrong with that, its just the facts.

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06-29-2011, 08:20 PM
  #108
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Where is this from?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lacrosseguy View Post
Zack Phillips skating is being drastically under rated..........his top end speed is very good, his 1-2-3 is average, he centered the #1 line in CDN junior hockey and the team that ultimately won the Mem Cup, he is a player.
He was a point a game guy in his first season in junior hockey afer Xmas playing 4th line minutes and his improvement from year to year was so drastic he leap froged to the 1 st line.
Prior to Major junior hockey, he played prep hockey in Massachusetts and was the top scoring sophmore in New England--finishing a mere 4 points behind Chris Kredier in the same league, and kreiders draft year was 2 years ago..
Gerard Gallant would tell you this guy distribution of the puck is a key reason why Huberdeau went from 35 points to 105 and Galiev went from scoring 8 even strength goals to 35.
This kid does not have the WOW factor but is a very good player whose hockey IQ is off the charts, think Adam Oates with alot of grit..
I want a source please...

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06-29-2011, 08:38 PM
  #109
Timothy Freitag
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A pass moves a lot faster than someone can skate. I think the kid will be fine. Good pick.

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06-29-2011, 08:45 PM
  #110
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Yea...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timothy Freitag View Post
A pass moves a lot faster than someone can skate. I think the kid will be fine. Good pick.
Because he'll never have to skate he'll just pass the puck everywhere. He won't have to worry about his skating because his team mates will move it for him. Really??

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06-29-2011, 08:49 PM
  #111
Dr Jan Itor
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I think you're taking things a bit too literal. Skating isn't the be all and end all and can certainly be improved. It's a lot easier to teach somebody to skate better than it is to teach offensive instincts and vision.

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06-29-2011, 09:34 PM
  #112
Timothy Freitag
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LemaireisGOD View Post
Because he'll never have to skate he'll just pass the puck everywhere. He won't have to worry about his skating because his team mates will move it for him. Really??
You don't have to be the fastest skater to find open spots on the ice. Open spots where his teammates can find him. Open spots where he can set up his teammates.

Speed is important, but it's only one aspect of the game. The kid has a good feel for the game, which I feel is more important. I haven't seen him play enough to have a strong opinion on his game, but Fletcher & Co. have done a good job identifying talent thus far, and I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.

I don't think we disagree completely. I also hope you're wrong . I guess I don't know that Grimaldi or Jurco would have been better picks.

The kid might not work out, which happens. My hope is that all of our picks improve their deficiencies.

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06-29-2011, 09:38 PM
  #113
TaLoN
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I can't believe this much is being made over a kid with average speed, below average acceleration...

This is the same thing Koivu was knocked for his draft year and he's been just fine. Granlund also had the same weakness...

Hockey sense easily over comes this issue.

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06-29-2011, 09:43 PM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Jan Itor View Post
I think you're taking things a bit too literal. Skating isn't the be all and end all and can certainly be improved. It's a lot easier to teach somebody to skate better than it is to teach offensive instincts and vision.
This.

Unless you are physically challenged like Brunette, you can improve your skating in you are athletic.

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06-29-2011, 09:44 PM
  #115
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It's not like he's as bad a skater as Bruno anyway.... This issue has been WAY overblown in this thread.

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06-29-2011, 09:47 PM
  #116
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its not being overblown, one guy comes in here and starts a sh@tstorm in every thread, its ridiculous

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06-29-2011, 09:48 PM
  #117
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Also when people bring up well Brunette is bad and never improved you do realize that Bruno was a late round pick in 1993, so he was never given the same attention to development that Phillips will be given, he also played in a league where obstruction was the equalizing force, in all honesty Phillips doesn't look terrible as a skater, sure he's not smooth and fast but positioning plays a huge role.

Koivu isn't the fastest skater yet he is a great two way player, his skating is being blown up, yes its a weakness yes he knows it, yes he has the work ethic and the attitude to fix it, he's not james sheppard, he will probably end up in AHL, his attitude and other skills as well as him being a scoring player at every level is attractive.

Also if you remove the talent as you have said LIG, it takes a balanced offensive attack, so his numbers and that of his linemates and teamates were all probably higher because of each other, sure you remove Hubber his numbers may dip, you know that it doesn't indicate a lower offensive potential, you need finishers and people to help share offensive burden otherwise the team knows who to stop.

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06-29-2011, 09:53 PM
  #118
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You give a top line player 3rd line wingers and of course their numbers will drop. That's why we all know Koivu is capable of so much more for example... he's never had first line wingers yet.

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06-30-2011, 01:31 AM
  #119
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For all those that talk about "skating can be improved", how about naming some NHL examples for us.

Yeah, not so easily improved, is it. By age 18 (Phillips is closer to 19), you pretty much are what you are in the skating department. It's the stick skills that are much more commonly improved on. Poor skating is a huge challenge to play with, and the only way I've seen it overcome is by excellent skills in other areas (Brunette).

Very risky pick. By #28 most guys bust anyway, and Phillips has much potential of that as anyone.

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06-30-2011, 03:01 AM
  #120
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I don't get why people get all worked up about this stuff. Unless you are a scout and have watched him play and not just highlights you have no idea how bad his skating is. If you actually sat and watched full games of him you might have some idea about his skating ability. But face it just about none of us have.

There are so many factors that determine whether a player is successful in the NHL. Besides just the physical aspects like skating, shooting etc. there is a lot of adjustment that a player must go through mentally when trying to make the step up to the big leagues. It is really pointless to pinpoint one facet of his game and say that will be the downfall of a player. A deficiency in one part of the game can be nullified if a player has an abundance of skill in another part of the game. Maybe he will be good and maybe he won't. We will just have to wait and see.

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06-30-2011, 10:08 AM
  #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by State of Hockey View Post
For all those that talk about "skating can be improved", how about naming some NHL examples for us.

Yeah, not so easily improved, is it. By age 18 (Phillips is closer to 19), you pretty much are what you are in the skating department. It's the stick skills that are much more commonly improved on. Poor skating is a huge challenge to play with, and the only way I've seen it overcome is by excellent skills in other areas (Brunette).
.
Boogaard - he was never a great skater, but he improved by leaps and bounds from when he was drafted.

Skating can certainly be improved. Speed on the other hand, not so much

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06-30-2011, 10:14 AM
  #122
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You can improve speed through skating technique and lifting.

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06-30-2011, 10:17 AM
  #123
Surly Furious
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
You can improve speed through skating technique and lifting.
All right then, speed can be improved as well.

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06-30-2011, 10:19 AM
  #124
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The thing about skating is it can be improved, I'm talking about technique, greatly. The problem with speed is while it can be improved you're never going to go from a 4.8 guy to a 4.2 guy. At most you'll get down to like a 4.6 or so. For the most part, either you have it or you don't.

(I used 40y times because I don't know how it would equate to skating times)

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06-30-2011, 10:19 AM
  #125
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The biggest question is why is his skating bad? If it's bad because of technique (which is what I've been hearing) that can be improved through coaching. If it's bad because of missing athletic qualities, or something like deformed knees, then you have a problem. The big issue is that people are acting like he's a terrible skater. That's not true, he's merely slightly below average. We're looking for him to improve to the average level. It's not like we're saying he can be turned into an elite skater. Coaching and development should be able to get him to a level where it's a minor or non-issue.

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