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The New Shut Down Center

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Old
06-29-2011, 08:32 PM
  #1
esuhock22
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The New Shut Down Center

So with Richards gone and even Carter's strong yet underrated two way play gone, who do you guys see stepping in and playing the other teams top guys? Center specifically, complete line if you want. Schenn or Couturier hopefully will be good for this eventually, but I don't think it's fair to assume a rookie is ready for this role. You can argue Giroux would be good for it, but it could take away from his offensive production.

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06-29-2011, 08:33 PM
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Giroux... And I'm not optimistic about it.

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06-29-2011, 08:38 PM
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Giroux... And I'm not optimistic about it.
of course not, you are a flyers fan.

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06-29-2011, 08:50 PM
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chimrichalds18
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I think Holmgren calling Giroux a Richards-type player is setting the table for Giroux to play that role. I don't want him doing that for the reason you (the OP) pointed out, but I'm definitely expecting it.

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06-29-2011, 08:54 PM
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I don't think he is currently part of the organization.

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06-29-2011, 08:56 PM
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I really think Homer and/or Lavy (mostly Homer) want to slot Schenn into that role. I think they need to get a 3rd line center in FA

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06-29-2011, 09:00 PM
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Agree with GKJ. Our shutdown center is likely a free agent.

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06-29-2011, 09:04 PM
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I saw someone's argument that trading Richards would hinder the ability to shut down Crosby. This is ridiculous, Crosby has 62 points in his career against the Flyers, tied for the most vs. any opponent (NYI), he can't be shut down.

But...I'm interested to see what Giroux can to OFFENSIVELY. Assuming they're matched up most of the game, Giroux's offensive abilities (which I think we can all agree are > Richards') should keep Crosby in the defensive zone a bit more often during the games. The longer Croz is playing D, the less time he has to murder us on O.

If the games are in PHI, I'd expect to see the two top lines lock horns. If in PIT, G's line will probably face Staal & co. with the last change.

So to answer the question...I'm hoping Giroux can hold his own defensively, and help the team's cause by being in the offensive zone more often than not. And Couturier sounds like he'll be the shutdown center soon. And i also agree that our shutdown guy this year may be through FA, possibly Madden, maybe a dose of Konopka.

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06-29-2011, 09:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
I don't think he is currently part of the organization.
I hope this...I really want Schenn to develop and become a really good player for us (which I think he will), but asking him to be a shut down defensive center as a rookie might hurt his growth a little bit. Let him learn on the wing of someone like John Madden or something

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06-29-2011, 09:19 PM
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Agree with GKJ. Our shutdown center is likely a free agent.
chris drury.

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06-29-2011, 09:26 PM
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It's got to be someone who isn't in the organization yet. No way should Schenn be put under this much pressure so soon.

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06-29-2011, 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by chimrichalds18 View Post
I think Holmgren calling Giroux a Richards-type player is setting the table for Giroux to play that role. I don't want him doing that for the reason you (the OP) pointed out, but I'm definitely expecting it.
Yeah Homer, lets beat the hell out of Giroux like we did to Richards and waste his offensive talents trying to shut down people....makes sense to me.

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Originally Posted by sobrien View Post
I saw someone's argument that trading Richards would hinder the ability to shut down Crosby. This is ridiculous, Crosby has 62 points in his career against the Flyers, tied for the most vs. any opponent (NYI), he can't be shut down.

But...I'm interested to see what Giroux can to OFFENSIVELY. Assuming they're matched up most of the game, Giroux's offensive abilities (which I think we can all agree are > Richards') should keep Crosby in the defensive zone a bit more often during the games. The longer Croz is playing D, the less time he has to murder us on O.

If the games are in PHI, I'd expect to see the two top lines lock horns. If in PIT, G's line will probably face Staal & co. with the last change.

So to answer the question...I'm hoping Giroux can hold his own defensively, and help the team's cause by being in the offensive zone more often than not. And Couturier sounds like he'll be the shutdown center soon. And i also agree that our shutdown guy this year may be through FA, possibly Madden, maybe a dose of Konopka.
Madden apparently is staying in Minnesota whether that means retirement or playing for the wild. Konopka isnt good enough.

I like Reasoner, Goc and Belanger in that order...but they arent necessarily the best . No one else excites me. I wouldnt mind Arnott as a 3rd center, but he isnt the prototypical shut-down center.

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06-29-2011, 09:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikedifr View Post
Yeah Homer, lets beat the hell out of Giroux like we did to Richards and waste his offensive talents trying to shut down people....makes sense to me.



Madden apparently is staying in Minnesota whether that means retirement or playing for the wild. Konopka isnt good enough.

I like Reasoner, Goc and Belanger in that order...but they arent necessarily the best . No one else excites me. I wouldnt mind Arnott as a 3rd center, but he isnt the prototypical shut-down center.
Isnt good enough PLUS he is in the box 90% of the time anyway.

Anyway, I dont see them going for another center. I already see them envisioning a Giroux-Briere-Schenn middle. I would be very surprised if they got another center. Now who plays the shutdown role...no idea. I think if a line of JVR-Giroux-Simmonds was made (or Voracek), they would use that line against, say Crosby's line. Ya, some people here will freak at that, but I can easily see them doing that.

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06-29-2011, 09:49 PM
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Isnt good enough PLUS he is in the box 90% of the time anyway.

Anyway, I dont see them going for another center. I already see them envisioning a Giroux-Briere-Schenn middle. I would be very surprised if they got another center. Now who plays the shutdown role...no idea. I think if a line of JVR-Giroux-Simmonds was made (or Voracek), they would use that line against, say Crosby's line. Ya, some people here will freak at that, but I can easily see them doing that.
I agree, I am just considering hypothetical signings...Glad I am not the only one that sees Schenn almost basically a definite on this roster. I think they will use a combination of Giroux and Schenn, not that I like that idea....but it is what it is.

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06-29-2011, 10:01 PM
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06-29-2011, 10:33 PM
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Laviolette likes to roll three balanced scoring lines that all have a nice mixture of size, toughness, skill, and defensive prowess. Laviolette uses different types of matchups for different teams and has never used one line or center as the shutdown center/line. Both Giroux and Schenn are excellent defensively, so is Couturier who should be a Flyer by the fall of 2012. I don't see a need to go out and sign or trade for a "shut down center." Of course, I would love an upgrade to Blair Betts who in my opinion has nothing left in the tank due to too many shoulder injuries, and adding a John Madden or Michal Handzus (probably too expensive) to center the fourth line would be great.

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06-29-2011, 10:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sobrien View Post
I saw someone's argument that trading Richards would hinder the ability to shut down Crosby. This is ridiculous, Crosby has 62 points in his career against the Flyers, tied for the most vs. any opponent (NYI), he can't be shut down.

But...I'm interested to see what Giroux can to OFFENSIVELY. Assuming they're matched up most of the game, Giroux's offensive abilities (which I think we can all agree are > Richards') should keep Crosby in the defensive zone a bit more often during the games. The longer Croz is playing D, the less time he has to murder us on O.

If the games are in PHI, I'd expect to see the two top lines lock horns. If in PIT, G's line will probably face Staal & co. with the last change.

So to answer the question...I'm hoping Giroux can hold his own defensively, and help the team's cause by being in the offensive zone more often than not. And Couturier sounds like he'll be the shutdown center soon. And i also agree that our shutdown guy this year may be through FA, possibly Madden, maybe a dose of Konopka.
He will be shutdown, we got Bryzgalov now. Notice us and the Islanders are in the same division with the Pens and we both havent had a good goalie since he came into the NHL. Devils had Broduer and Rangers have Lundqvist. A goalie is the answer to shut him down.

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06-29-2011, 10:53 PM
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Handzus a broken down slow player.
please for the love of God stay away.

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06-29-2011, 11:05 PM
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Originally Posted by esuhock22 View Post
So with Richards gone and even Carter's strong yet underrated two way play gone, who do you guys see stepping in and playing the other teams top guys? Center specifically, complete line if you want. Schenn or Couturier hopefully will be good for this eventually, but I don't think it's fair to assume a rookie is ready for this role. You can argue Giroux would be good for it, but it could take away from his offensive production.
Jason Arnott would be a good short term solution so Schenn can take his time to develop. I wouldn't want to throw him to the wolves this soon.

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06-29-2011, 11:14 PM
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He will be shutdown, we got Bryzgalov now. Notice us and the Islanders are in the same division with the Pens and we both havent had a good goalie since he came into the NHL. Devils had Broduer and Rangers have Lundqvist. A goalie is the answer to shut him down.
we'll see..

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06-29-2011, 11:15 PM
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OriginJM
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Speaking of all of our new players, how about we update the prospect ticker on top of the forum?

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06-29-2011, 11:29 PM
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Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
I don't think he is currently part of the organization.
THIS. I believe we will sign someone to do this job. I can't see us trusting a rookie to shut down the likes of Crosby, Ovi, Taveres and Stamkos, sorry but they'd just get destroyed. Also, there is no way Giroux is a good enough 2-way forward to play the shut-down role. He gives up the puck way too often in the defensive zone. I think that if we somehow end up with either Stamkos or Brad Richards (I hope not but it may happen) then we mught just look to have Giroux on the shut-down line and I'm not excited about that. We'd probably have to have 2 of JVR, Simmons and Versteeg on that line too just to give it a chance (Verteeg and JVR aver very solid 2-way forwards, Simmons is pretty good and he's also a real physical presence on the line).

It MAY end up being Simmons - Giroux - Versteeg, but I hope not.

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06-29-2011, 11:33 PM
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phlocky
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Originally Posted by sobrien View Post
I saw someone's argument that trading Richards would hinder the ability to shut down Crosby. This is ridiculous, Crosby has 62 points in his career against the Flyers, tied for the most vs. any opponent (NYI), he can't be shut down.

But...I'm interested to see what Giroux can to OFFENSIVELY. Assuming they're matched up most of the game, Giroux's offensive abilities (which I think we can all agree are > Richards') should keep Crosby in the defensive zone a bit more often during the games. The longer Croz is playing D, the less time he has to murder us on O.

If the games are in PHI, I'd expect to see the two top lines lock horns. If in PIT, G's line will probably face Staal & co. with the last change.

So to answer the question...I'm hoping Giroux can hold his own defensively, and help the team's cause by being in the offensive zone more often than not. And Couturier sounds like he'll be the shutdown center soon. And i also agree that our shutdown guy this year may be through FA, possibly Madden, maybe a dose of Konopka.
That would never happen. First off you can't shut down Crosby, all you can do is try to "contain" him for as long as possible. He's single handedly the BEST player in the NHL and there isn't anyone even close. remember, he's not a very big guy (like Richards size) but he's EXTREMELY strong on the puck, you just can't get it away from him. This is in large part due to his incredable lower body strength. There is just no way Giroux could match up against Crosby.

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06-29-2011, 11:54 PM
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06-30-2011, 12:00 AM
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Konopka
Losing three of your top pk guys + adding a player that takes a tremendous amount of bad penalties = a recipe for disaster.

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