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(Post 191) Flyers will NOT submit an offer sheet on Stamkos (Stamkos Part II)

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Old
06-29-2011, 11:58 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
I hope that TO signs him to an OS and forces TB to accept it screwig them cap-wise like when they had Vinnie and Brad on long, expensive contracts.


Me. I want us to sign Bogosian to a 4 year, 4.5 mil/per OS. It would cost us a 1st and 3rd next year if Win doesn't match/accept and I can deal with Bogo for that price. Then we can trade one of Carle or Meszaros (Carle would be my choice but if Mesz could now return a 1st in 2012 then I'd trade him and keep Carle).
We don't have our original 2nd or 3rd rounder next year, which means we can't offer sheet Bogosian for less than $7.6 million and 4 1sts. And obviously we aren't going to do that.

Nice idea though... it just can't happen.

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06-29-2011, 11:59 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by sandlansd View Post
We don't have our original 2nd or 3rd rounder next year, which means we can't offer sheet Bogosian for less than $7.6 million and 4 1sts. And obviously we aren't going to do that.

Nice idea though... it just can't happen.
Damn, I thought we still had our 3rd next year. So scrathc that idea.

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06-30-2011, 12:09 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by sandlansd View Post
We don't have our original 2nd or 3rd rounder next year, which means we can't offer sheet Bogosian for less than $7.6 million and 4 1sts. And obviously we aren't going to do that.

Nice idea though... it just can't happen.
I think you are wrong about our original 3rd.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_NHL_Entry_Draft

I know its wiki, but they were right in the last draft when alot of other sites were wrong If you are talking about the Versteeg trade, that is where we lost our 3rd (in this past draft)

You are right about the 2nd (Meszaros trade)

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06-30-2011, 12:35 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
I think you are wrong about our original 3rd.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_NHL_Entry_Draft

I know its wiki, but they were right in the last draft when alot of other sites were wrong If you are talking about the Versteeg trade, that is where we lost our 3rd (in this past draft)

You are right about the 2nd (Meszaros trade)
The 3rd was lost via the trade for Ilya Bryzgalov:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilya_Bryzgalov
the relevant section is under "Phoenix Coyotes":
"On June 6, 2011, Bryzgalov's negotiation rights were traded to the Philadelphia Flyers for a third-round pick in the 2012 NHL Entry Draft, forward Matt Clackson, and future considerations."

You can find confirmation here: http://www.prosportstransactions.com...ure/Flyers.htm

and here: http://flyers.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=565164

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06-30-2011, 12:36 AM
  #105
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We lost our 2012 3rd rounder in the Bryzgalov trade.

Theoretically we could trade Bobrovsky to Phoenix for that 3rd rounder back and then throw an offer sheet at Bogosian worth 4.50-4.70.

Then dump Carle. Or just not sign Leino.

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06-30-2011, 12:54 AM
  #106
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http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/201...radio-610-wip/
This is Frank's interview yesterday morning on the Morning Show on WIP. Seravalli called out Panotch and Carchidi.

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06-30-2011, 12:57 AM
  #107
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I believe Seravalli. I don't think he would go into the show like that just to lie

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06-30-2011, 01:15 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by JABEE View Post
http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/201...radio-610-wip/
This is Frank's interview yesterday morning on the Morning Show on WIP. Seravalli called out Panotch and Carchidi.
LOL at his comments about those 2, you can't disagree with what he said.

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06-30-2011, 02:05 AM
  #109
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http://gcobb.com/2011/06/29/stamkos-...-agency-plans/

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06-30-2011, 02:10 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Gibbs18 View Post
I like how the writer mentions Giroux as one of the likely names to be moved to save money. Doubt it.

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06-30-2011, 02:11 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Giroux tha Damaja View Post
I like how the writer mentions Giroux as one of the likely names to be moved to save money. Doubt it.
lol.

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06-30-2011, 02:12 AM
  #112
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I know dept might suffer a tad, but if we could trade Carle and send down Schenn if we get him:

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Steven Stamkos ($7.800m) / Daniel Briere ($6.500m)
James Van Riemsdyk ($1.654m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Jakub Voracek ($2.250m)
Wayne Simmonds ($1.750m) / Brayden Schenn ($3.110m) / Andreas Nodl ($0.845m)
Jody Shelley ($1.100m) / Blair Betts ($0.700m) / Ben Holmstrom ($0.750m)
Tom Sestito ($0.550m)

DEFENSEMEN
Chris Pronger ($4.921m) / Erik Gustafsson ($0.900m)
Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / Braydon Coburn ($3.200m)
Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m) / Sean O'Donnell ($1.000m)
Oskars Bartulis ($0.600m)

GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.666m) / Sergei Bobrovsky ($1.750m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,330,595; BONUSES: $3,940,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $969,405

I'm just throwing things out the wall to see if things stick... maybe...

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Old
06-30-2011, 02:20 AM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giroux tha Damaja View Post
I like how the writer mentions Giroux as one of the likely names to be moved to save money. Doubt it.
He and JVR would be the last ones to go hahaha

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06-30-2011, 03:57 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Giroux tha Damaja View Post
I like how the writer mentions Giroux as one of the likely names to be moved to save money. Doubt it.
"Hi everyone. I've called you all to the team meeting because we need to make room for our new star here...oh come on up here Stamkos don't be bashful...come on...come on...there we go! Where was I? Oh yeah, we need to clear up just over $3.00m to slide him right into our lineup.

So guys. What do you think? Who wants to get moving? How about you Versteeg? You're alright I guess, but everyone kind of hates you.

Giroux? Put your hand down!

How about you Hartnell? You're big, physical, and you annoy other people. Still you're slow and you fall down a lo---

Giroux!?!? Come on now. This isn't a joke.

Carle? Really now. You'll be fine next to someone else on another team. There's no need to stay attached to Pronger. You can't be a +30 at life. Oh, you just want to stand in his shadow all day? Fine.

What about you Cobur---

Giroux!?!? For the love of god, go sit down somewhere.

Meszaros? Tampa Bay return sound fun? I hear Yzerman totally changed that team now. No?

Briere? No? Pronger? Timonen? One of you vets has to step up at some point.

Fine. Bryzga---

Why am I mad? I'm mad? Oh, wait. You're mad. Okay. You just signed a lifetime contract. What did you expect would happen?

Fine Giroux. There are literally 10 contracts on our team more expensive than yours or at least nearly as expen---

Schenn put your hand down, you're going to Adirondack.

Make that 11 contracts, but I guess if we have to move you to Toronto for bad-decent prospects, you have to go Toronto. It is what it is. Pack your things.

No, you can't go to LA. I don't care if they're going to win the Cup.

Huh? What's that? Well, you should've asked for a limited No Trade Clause."


Last edited by CS: 06-30-2011 at 04:09 AM.
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Old
06-30-2011, 04:12 AM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
"Hi everyone. I've called you all to the team meeting because we need to make room for our new star here..
Seriously. You don't sell your horse to buy a saddle.

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06-30-2011, 04:18 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Giroux tha Damaja View Post
Seriously. You don't sell your horse to buy a saddle.
Honestly, for once I'm extremely thrilled to not have to listen to hoards of HFers after our best players because we're in "cap hell."

It got old very quickly.

Getting Stamkos means a welcoming back of everything we hated about people begging us for Richards and Carter at discount prices.

Is Stamkos worth the headache? I'm starting to side with no.

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06-30-2011, 04:48 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Honestly, for once I'm extremely thrilled to not have to listen to hoards of HFers after our best players because we're in "cap hell."

It got old very quickly.

Getting Stamkos means a welcoming back of everything we hated about people begging us for Richards and Carter at discount prices.

Is Stamkos worth the headache? I'm starting to side with no.
Glad to see you're starting to come around.

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06-30-2011, 04:53 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Flyerfan808 View Post
Glad to see you're starting to come around.
Well, I was excited to see us take a shot at frontloading a 7.60m for four 1sts around 12-14 years long. I thought that'd be worth it.

Then I started to think a little more about it when we moved to about 8.00m.

Then I started to get a little nervous around 8.50m.

Once it hit around 9.00m I was ready to jump off this ship. Now that the rumor is reaching 9.58m, I'm officially not okay with going after Stamkos anymore.

Offer 8.50m at the max, preferably closer to 8.00m, and see if they bite. If they match, just move on. At a point it becomes not worth it.

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06-30-2011, 04:55 AM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Well, I was excited to see us take a shot at frontloading a 7.60m for four 1sts around 12-14 years long. I thought that'd be worth it.

Then I started to think a little more about it when we moved to about 8.00m.

Then I started to get a little nervous around 8.50m.

Once it hit around 9.00m I was ready to jump off this ship. Now that the rumor is reaching 9.58m, I'm officially not okay with going after Stamkos anymore.

Offer 8.50m at the max, preferably closer to 8.00m, and see if they bite. If they match, just move on. At a point it becomes not worth it.
The goal scoring we could get from Stamkos would be insane. But the thing is, I feel that depth is more important than one or two huge super stars for the majority of the team. Boston, other than Thomas, really doesn't have any super stars. They had depth.

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06-30-2011, 05:02 AM
  #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Honestly, for once I'm extremely thrilled to not have to listen to hoards of HFers after our best players because we're in "cap hell."

It got old very quickly.

Getting Stamkos means a welcoming back of everything we hated about people begging us for Richards and Carter at discount prices.

Is Stamkos worth the headache? I'm starting to side with no.
So what you're saying is that you're glad we're no longer the team to beat in the East?

Idiots supporting other teams on HF saying we're in "cap hell" and coveting our players only means they are jealous.

Right now, they have nothing to be jealous about, which is why they stopped the talk.

Don't get me wrong, I see a lot of promise in our future, but right now, that promise isn't guaranteed to do jack squat and it doesn't do much for us now. Adding Stamkos immediately makes us a contender and he fits in perfectly w/ our young core. It's just a chance to take what we've already done, and make it even better.

The idea of having Stamkos, Giroux, JVR, Schenn, Couturier, Simmonds, Voracek all for 5 years is pretty darn nice...

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06-30-2011, 05:04 AM
  #121
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I do not see the Stamkos deal going through.

1.) We offer a large sum of money and Tampa matches: We are now 7 days past July 1st and may have missed out on some key UFA (even though the pool is pretty weak this year)

2.) We offer a large sum of money and lose 4 1st round picks, have a huge cap, and have to unload some depth to afford Stamkos.... In 2-4 years we lose our D depth and now we have scoring, a goalie but no D.

3.) Forget Stamkos, we go after UFAs (1-2 loaners (Gagne etc.) for a chance to contend this year), get some D prospects and in 2 years time we are stronger than before.

IMHO, It would be wiser to keep our depth and hope to be major player for the cup in 2 years. If Stamkos was a UFA than I would be all for throwing everything at him, but being a RFA and having to wait 7 days makes me nervous... Tampa isn't crunched for cap space and could match anything we offer.

I would love to see him in Orange and Black, but the price and the risk may be too much.

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06-30-2011, 05:06 AM
  #122
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Originally Posted by sandlansd View Post
So what you're saying is that you're glad we're no longer the team to beat in the East?

Idiots supporting other teams on HF saying we're in "cap hell" and coveting our players only means they are jealous.

Right now, they have nothing to be jealous about, which is why they stopped the talk.

Don't get me wrong, I see a lot of promise in our future, but right now, that promise isn't guaranteed to do jack squat and it doesn't do much for us now. Adding Stamkos immediately makes us a contender and he fits in perfectly w/ our young core. It's just a chance to take what we've already done, and make it even better.

The idea of having Stamkos, Giroux, JVR, Schenn, Couturier, Simmonds, Voracek all for 5 years is pretty darn nice...
We are still very much the team to beat. We still (currently) have our great d-man depth, our new #1 goalie and if we sign someone to a salary of 2.5 to 3.5M, we will have an amazing top 9, with all of them being top 9 players and a decent 4th line that can shut down or provide energy. We changed up our offense a bit, but honestly, I have a feeling with the younger crowd and tougher crowd, we should be feared.

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06-30-2011, 05:11 AM
  #123
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Originally Posted by SolidSnakeUS View Post
We are still very much the team to beat. We still (currently) have our great d-man depth, our new #1 goalie and if we sign someone to a salary of 2.5 to 3.5M, we will have an amazing top 9, with all of them being top 9 players and a decent 4th line that can shut down or provide energy. We changed up our offense a bit, but honestly, I have a feeling with the younger crowd and tougher crowd, we should be feared.
This.

People are forgetting that we have an extremely talented group of defensemen and a legitimate goalie. I know we just lost Richards and Carter as significant contributing forwards, but imagine if Schenn and Couturier both make this roster. It's definitely possible.

vanRiemsdyk - Giroux - Voracek
Hartnell - Briere - Couturier/Leino/Cole/Gagne
Simmonds - Schenn - Versteeg
Nodl - Betts - Sestito
Rinaldo

If JVR and Voracek have breakout years, everyone else plays to the level they've demonstrated, and Schenn becomes a rookie of the year candidate, we're still a top 3 offense in the NHL.

I know there are a lot of ifs, but as it stands right now I put us as a top 10 offense in the league.

What we DESPERATELY need help on is our PK at the moment, not our present or future scoring.

Stamkos is a nice piece to add, but he's not a necessary piece to add. Maybe at 8.00m he is, but he's not at 9.58m.

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06-30-2011, 05:50 AM
  #124
Mylec 22
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
This.

People are forgetting that we have an extremely talented group of defensemen and a legitimate goalie. I know we just lost Richards and Carter as significant contributing forwards, but imagine if Schenn and Couturier both make this roster. It's definitely possible.

vanRiemsdyk - Giroux - Voracek
Hartnell - Briere - Couturier/Leino/Cole/Gagne
Simmonds - Schenn - Versteeg
Nodl - Betts - Sestito
Rinaldo

If JVR and Voracek have breakout years, everyone else plays to the level they've demonstrated, and Schenn becomes a rookie of the year candidate, we're still a top 3 offense in the NHL.

I know there are a lot of ifs, but as it stands right now I put us as a top 10 offense in the league.

What we DESPERATELY need help on is our PK at the moment, not our present or future scoring.

Stamkos is a nice piece to add, but he's not a necessary piece to add. Maybe at 8.00m he is, but he's not at 9.58m.
I completely agree with all of this! This is what I've been thinking all along. I'm VERY excited about the coming season!


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06-30-2011, 05:54 AM
  #125
WeekendAtBernies
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
This.

People are forgetting that we have an extremely talented group of defensemen and a legitimate goalie. I know we just lost Richards and Carter as significant contributing forwards, but imagine if Schenn and Couturier both make this roster. It's definitely possible.

vanRiemsdyk - Giroux - Voracek
Hartnell - Briere - Couturier/Leino/Cole/Gagne
Simmonds - Schenn - Versteeg
Nodl - Betts - Sestito
Rinaldo

If JVR and Voracek have breakout years, everyone else plays to the level they've demonstrated, and Schenn becomes a rookie of the year candidate, we're still a top 3 offense in the NHL.

I know there are a lot of ifs, but as it stands right now I put us as a top 10 offense in the league.

What we DESPERATELY need help on is our PK at the moment, not our present or future scoring.

Stamkos is a nice piece to add, but he's not a necessary piece to add. Maybe at 8.00m he is, but he's not at 9.58m.
Oh, ok, I thought u meant u didn't want him period anymore.

Yeah, @ 9.58M I probably don't want him either.

That being said, I doubt we offer that ridiculous of a salary.

The entire reason why the Lightning wouldn't be able to match a Stamkos offer sheet is the actual salary... not the cap hit. They have tons of cap room... the short term money is the issue (if there actually is an issue at all). So front loading a 10 year, 85 million dollar deal does the same damage to Tampa as a regular 10 year, 100 million dollar deal. Actually, it might even do more damage ($12.86M in the 1st year front-loaded, vs. $10M in the 1st year for the regular deal).

So your front-loaded 10/85 deal actually has a lower chance of being matched than a regular 10/100 deal.

And we're the freaking Philadelphia Flyers... we shouldn't have to offer Stammer the most years or the most money. If he wants to sign in TOR and miss the playoffs for the next 5 years, that's his business. But if he'd rather come here, play in front of a packed house every night and have Claude Giroux dishing him pucks for the next 10 years, AND LIFT THE CUP MULTIPLE TIMES, then 10 years and $85 million is more than generous.


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