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Hamrlik has refused 1 yr offer. (post #363)

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06-30-2011, 12:35 AM
  #601
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Originally Posted by Hannibal View Post
Would you guys take Jovanoski as a replacement for Hamrlik?
They are different type of players. Jovo plays with more of an edge, takes more offensive risks and wears his heart on his sleeve, but he's very erratic in his own end when compared to the steady Hamrlik.

If you want to replace Hammer, you gotta look for something steadier than Jovo.

IMO, the guy to fill hammer's shoes is already in the organization in Josh Gorges.

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06-30-2011, 12:37 AM
  #602
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so all this talk about being a hab boils down to 1 yr on a contract? something fishy here, i bet he gets surgery during the year a la Komo.

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06-30-2011, 12:41 AM
  #603
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Originally Posted by flapshots View Post
Yet Habs fans keep saying they're the best fans in the world...

Hopefully he signs in Detroit although I doubt it...
assuming he doesnt get re-signed with Habs, Detroit would be a good fit I think.

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06-30-2011, 12:44 AM
  #604
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Originally Posted by Hackett View Post
They are different type of players. Jovo plays with more of an edge, takes more offensive risks and wears his heart on his sleeve, but he's very erratic in his own end when compared to the steady Hamrlik.

If you want to replace Hammer, you gotta look for something steadier than Jovo.

IMO, the guy to fill hammer's shoes is already in the organization in Josh Gorges.
Gorges, Markov and Subban will be the defensive glue holding the team together going forward. Really Hamrlik's shoes as the first pairing all round defender is either being taken by Markov's return or the emergence of Subban as the number 2 to Markov depending on your perspective. But Jovonoski could fill his current role in the depth chart as a 3/4 until Yemelin or maybe Weber/Diaz is ready to claim it.

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06-30-2011, 12:52 AM
  #605
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Originally Posted by swimmer77 View Post
Hamrlik is rolling the dice and I wish him well. Fans didn't want him to stay anyway and are still pissed that he's now leaving.

Never understood all of the hate for a player who repeatedly complimented the city, complimented the fans, complained not once, just tried to do the best he could under some extreme circumstances and was very instrumental in getting the team to the playoffs every year he was a Hab.
I agree. He gave us good years of service, got minimal credit (at least on this board), and now it's just not a good fit here because he wants multi-year and we can't offer it. I wish Hammer best of luck.

He'll get 2 yr/8mil or 11mil over three elsewhere, or something like that.

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06-30-2011, 01:14 AM
  #606
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Originally Posted by Jedrik View Post
I agree. He gave us good years of service, got minimal credit (at least on this board), and now it's just not a good fit here because he wants multi-year and we can't offer it. I wish Hammer best of luck.

He'll get 2 yr/8mil or 11mil over three elsewhere, or something like that.
He did give us good service and he'll like get 7.5-11m elsewhere and he'll deserve it but Montreal can't pay him that with what we have in the pipeline.

It was a good thing he turned us down.

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06-30-2011, 01:16 AM
  #607
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Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
He was a hired gun in the best sense of the word. The Habs gave him money in the biggest open market signing in the team's history at that point and in return he gave loyal and hard working service for the entire term of his contract. He fulfilled the job given to him as the team's 2nd defenseman and strove valiantly to make up for the number 1's absences. If he was 32 again I'd want him to sign the contract again in a heartbeat which is the mark of a great UFA signing.
I like how you put that, and I agree.

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06-30-2011, 01:24 AM
  #608
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Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
Gorges, Markov and Subban will be the defensive glue holding the team together going forward. Really Hamrlik's shoes as the first pairing all round defender is either being taken by Markov's return or the emergence of Subban as the number 2 to Markov depending on your perspective. But Jovonoski could fill his current role in the depth chart as a 3/4 until Yemelin or maybe Weber/Diaz is ready to claim it.
I hear you. The way i break it down is like this:

I look at markov replacing Wiz. Wiz was eating a ton of minutes and played in all first team situations. This should most likely resemble markov's role. That should be an updgrade

Subban is Subban. He broke onto the scene and created a role for himself, and he earned it

When I look at a d-man who most resembles what hamrlik brings, in being a reliable defender who can play against top lines if need be, spot PP work, and alot of PK work, while chewing a fair chunk of minutes, its josh gorges. While I appreciate what hammer brought, I think the habs hold steady with this trade off.

From a depth point of view, it would be nice to add another quality and proven top 4 guy, but with the emergence of subban during the onslaught of injuries last season, its not a dire requirement imo

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06-30-2011, 01:32 AM
  #609
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Originally Posted by flapshots View Post
Yet Habs fans keep saying they're the best fans in the world...

Hopefully he signs in Detroit although I doubt it...
Wow would Hamrlik would fit the Detroit system well or what.
He wouldn't have to log the hard minutes against top line players.
Wouldn't have to carry too much offensive load.
Doesn't need to be overly physical.

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06-30-2011, 01:36 AM
  #610
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Originally Posted by Born in 1909 View Post
Almost guaranteed that a major piece on D (Markov, Gill, Subban, Gorges) goes down with a LTI in the first 20 games.

The new NHL is big and fast and nasty... lots of injuries out there...
All his fine so far. and then...

Quote:
Keep Hamrlik.

He will be needed.
That's like the most contradictory post i've ever seen.

If guys are stronger, meaner, faster, why would we want to keep Hammer?

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06-30-2011, 04:50 AM
  #611
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hackett View Post
They are different type of players. Jovo plays with more of an edge, takes more offensive risks and wears his heart on his sleeve, but he's very erratic in his own end when compared to the steady Hamrlik.

If you want to replace Hammer, you gotta look for something steadier than Jovo.

IMO, the guy to fill hammer's shoes is already in the organization in Josh Gorges.
You won't get the offense, but I'd be 100% happy signing Hannan.

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06-30-2011, 05:23 AM
  #612
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I think that overall, Hamrlik did some good things for the Habs. But he was always somewhat overpaid and at his age, there just isn't room anymore on the team for him.

Would I prefer him over Spacek? For sure! But Spacek has a contract that lasts one more year.. Here's the way I see it, the team will probably have these players on defense...

Offensive:
Markov, will play top minutes
Subban, will pay top minutes

Defensive:
Gill, signed
Gorges, I expect to sign

That leaves one paring composed of either:
Yemelin, signed
Spacek, signed
Webber, signed
Diaz, signed

So considering that Hamrlik isn't as strong offensively as Markov and Subban, Not as good defensively as Gill or Gorges that would leave him as a spare player with limited ice time..

So I'd rather see what Yemelin and Diaz can do given some time to adjust to NA ice surface and to a new NHL league, or Webber develop and see what his potential is than sign a more expensive Hamrlik...

Again, if Spacek wasn't on the team I'd say fine, but there are too many D at the moment and he's not as needed as he once was..

I would rather see

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06-30-2011, 05:34 AM
  #613
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Originally Posted by RNiner View Post
Hamrlik is a fine vet D, but is really no different from alot of 35+ guys that we could sign for 2.5-3 mil. If we really need that kind of player, there will be lots of options there. Maybe when Hammer doesn't get his 3 year/3 mil offer, he'll be more interested in re-signing for 1 year with Montreal... if we still need a vet D.

As far as swimmer's post, this talk is just hockey business talk. I've always been a Hammer fan and I thank him for his years of playing. Always nice to have a hard-working player who loves this city. But just like Saku, eventually you need to cut ties if the situation calls for it. The NHL is a game of speed and a game for the young. 3-year contracts to 36 year olds is just not smart at all.
I wish there would be a better analogy to make there instead of Koivu given the Habs' are strapped with Gomez and I won't mention what they lost. The only thing gained there is in the salary cap.

The impression I get is that the original offer to Hamr was a little bit under 3 mil and for one year. To negotiate and to get a quality d-man who aside from Lidstrom has maybe one of the best track records against injury the last few years, Gauthier could have offered less money and one more year.

But sure it's a business and hopefully things turn out well for everyone (Hamr, the Habs, Gauthier, etc.) concerned.


Last edited by swimmer77: 06-30-2011 at 05:42 AM.
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06-30-2011, 06:50 AM
  #614
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Originally Posted by Belso View Post
So considering that Hamrlik isn't as strong offensively as Markov and Subban, Not as good defensively as Gill or Gorges that would leave him as a spare player with limited ice time..
Agreed on not being at the same level offensively as Markov and Subban.
Would have to disagree on him not being as good defensively as Gill or Gorges.

Like I said, a lot of what Hamrlik does is simply undervalued because he doesn't do it in a flashy way and was overpaid although he was getting paid as a #2 which is what he was.

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06-30-2011, 07:08 AM
  #615
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Originally Posted by pam19 View Post
Are you saying Markov and Wiz are of the same caliber...
lol! I am agreeing with youand loling with yu!
BTW, Wiz would have stayed with us for 1M less...

But do we need to sign him with JT and Beaulieu in the pipeline!
Now you are a GM!
A five year contract to Wiz? With Beaulieu and JT coming in in two years?

To me, two years from now:
PK - Markov - Beaulieu - Gorges - JT... the rest (Weber, Carle, name it...).
Do we really need Wiz?
Do you know that for fact? You are making alot of assumptions to think tinordi and beaulieu will both be in the line up in 2 years. 5 years puts beaulieu at 22 or 23 as well as tinordi a year older than him. Sure defensemen are making it in the league at younger ages now but you cant bank on that stuff.

We dont really need wiz but it would be a good insurance policy to not rush people or have to trade later, and for markov if he becomes injured. I was fine with whichever way they chose but now he is going to get some prime money so itll be easier for people to realize its not from PG just letting him go.

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06-30-2011, 07:11 AM
  #616
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Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
You won't get the offense, but I'd be 100% happy signing Hannan.
Hannan is as slow as Spacek.........pass

Hejda is the man to target

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06-30-2011, 07:28 AM
  #617
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Originally Posted by pam19 View Post
Are you saying Markov and Wiz are of the same caliber...
lol! I am agreeing with youand loling with yu!
BTW, Wiz would have stayed with us for 1M less...

But do we need to sign him with JT and Beaulieu in the pipeline!
Now you are a GM!
A five year contract to Wiz? With Beaulieu and JT coming in in two years?

To me, two years from now:
PK - Markov - Beaulieu - Gorges - JT... the rest (Weber, Carle, name it...).
Do we really need Wiz?
says who ? not bcuz he would state in front of the cameras that he loves montreal and wants to stay here that he would take a paycut,every professional always says the same thing he wont come on TV saying well i got traded here so ill finish the year and sign with another team

and i think its gonna be more then 2years before we see Beaulieu and JT in our starting 6

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06-30-2011, 07:36 AM
  #618
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Originally Posted by PATCHESx67 View Post
says who ? not bcuz he would state in front of the cameras that he loves montreal and wants to stay here that he would take a paycut,every professional always says the same thing he wont come on TV saying well i got traded here so ill finish the year and sign with another team

and i think its gonna be more then 2years before we see Beaulieu and JT in our starting 6
You make way too much sense.

Carefull using logic and reason aroud here...............you might literally fry some minds

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06-30-2011, 07:46 AM
  #619
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Originally Posted by flapshots View Post
Agreed on not being at the same level offensively as Markov and Subban.
Would have to disagree on him not being as good defensively as Gill or Gorges.

Like I said, a lot of what Hamrlik does is simply undervalued because he doesn't do it in a flashy way and was overpaid although he was getting paid as a #2 which is what he was.
To expand on that Hamrlik always was carrying a weaker D partner. And this is where I thought re-signing Hamrlik would be of more benefit than re-signing Hal Gill not to mention who is better at ES. Subban and Markov certainly can carry a D partner and so can Gorges to a lesser extent. But if either of Subban or Markov go down then the other at this point is going to have a very heavy workload.

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06-30-2011, 08:43 AM
  #620
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If we had a taker for Spacek, I'd have no issue with giving Hamrlik a 2 year deal at 5 mil, but it would be expecting that Gill wouldn't be re-signed after this year so Yemelin-Weber -Diaz would ahve ice time and/or roster room.

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06-30-2011, 10:17 AM
  #621
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Most fans usually can't appreciate subtle skills. They will notice Gill lying flat on his ice playing the octopus and consider that good defending. They will notice points (although Hammer's usually go unnoticed as well). They will notice speed, or lack of (however some will say Gill plays better positional D so his super slowness isn't as important..never understood how they came up with that). The will notice leadership..
Actually, it seems Hammer just can't catch a break from certain fans..

I don't really understand this ''beef'' some fans have created towards Hammer. Overpaid, yes because he couldn't fill out a bigger offensive contribution, but he was still solid overall. I wouldn't be surprised to see a team throw 4M at him, or maybe a little less if Hammer pushed for that 3year contract.
We won't have that solid veteran D that will play with pretty much anybody and cover for most of their mistakes. Unless Spacek is healthy and on his natural side (or we sign someone else), I think most will be surprised by how much Hammer's presence is missed.

EDIT: On second thought, they probably won't even attribute it to Hammer. They will say the missing ingredient is Wiz.
Good post.

A good solid defensive D like Hammer brings intangible like stability to the defense. And he's a very good anchor when matched with practically any D. But these aspects don't show up in clear numbers.

But really, all the non-appreciation and even hate is due to... wait for it: his contract! What else?!

People claim Gorges can fill Hammer's shoes. We'll see soon enough that he can't, if he's actually asked to play a similar role (e.g. an anchor of his own defensive duo). But people will forgive him or dismiss the fact he can't replace Hammer because he's relatively cheap. When Gorges ends up in all fours interfering his own goalie in a tough scramble in front of the net, these people will forgive and forget... because he's cheap.

I have nothing against Gorges. I actually like the player. But he's no Hamrlik.

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06-30-2011, 10:50 AM
  #622
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Originally Posted by Poulet Kostopoulos View Post
Good post.

A good solid defensive D like Hammer brings intangible like stability to the defense. And he's a very good anchor when matched with practically any D. But these aspects don't show up in clear numbers.

But really, all the non-appreciation and even hate is due to... wait for it: his contract! What else?!

People claim Gorges can fill Hammer's shoes. We'll see soon enough that he can't, if he's actually asked to play a similar role (e.g. an anchor of his own defensive duo). But people will forgive him or dismiss the fact he can't replace Hammer because he's relatively cheap. When Gorges ends up in all fours interfering his own goalie in a tough scramble in front of the net, these people will forgive and forget... because he's cheap.

I have nothing against Gorges. I actually like the player. But he's no Hamrlik.
Gorges had some really great 'moments', but his stats always go down on the long run if he plays top 4 minutes, whereas Hamrlik doesn't.

Gorges allowed 36 goals on 762 minutes of ice-time, for a 2,83 GAA average, whereas Hamrlik allowed 73 goals on 1760 minutes of ice-time, for a GAA of 2,49. This might look like a big difference, but Gorges (10 GA 136 mn 4,40GAA) played twice as much time (per game) on the PK where he excelled compared to Hamrlik (24 GA 153 mn 9,41 GAA). Where the difference regarding top 4 capacity is noticable is at ES where Hamrlik had a 2,39 GAA (1404 mn vs 56 GA) and Gorges a 2,60 GAA (602 vs 26)

While Hamrlik is not suited for PK duty like Gorges is, he is more suited for ES duty on the top pairings.

I'm doubtful that Gorges can fill Hamrlik's shoes.

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06-30-2011, 10:52 AM
  #623
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Hamr's 5-on-5 contributions are going to be harder to replace than most think. I hope Emelin's adjustment is fast and his impact is positive. Otherwise everyone on roster is either slow, small or both, with the borderline exception of Subban.

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06-30-2011, 11:38 AM
  #624
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
Gorges had some really great 'moments', but his stats always go down on the long run if he plays top 4 minutes, whereas Hamrlik doesn't.

Gorges allowed 36 goals on 762 minutes of ice-time, for a 2,83 GAA average, whereas Hamrlik allowed 73 goals on 1760 minutes of ice-time, for a GAA of 2,49. This might look like a big difference, but Gorges (10 GA 136 mn 4,40GAA) played twice as much time (per game) on the PK where he excelled compared to Hamrlik (24 GA 153 mn 9,41 GAA). Where the difference regarding top 4 capacity is noticable is at ES where Hamrlik had a 2,39 GAA (1404 mn vs 56 GA) and Gorges a 2,60 GAA (602 vs 26)

While Hamrlik is not suited for PK duty like Gorges is, he is more suited for ES duty on the top pairings.

I'm doubtful that Gorges can fill Hamrlik's shoes.
Also, about these numbers, the difference in minutes is so significant (Hammer has more than double the minutes Gorges has), one would reasonably expect that Gorges' numbers would naturally get worst if he has Hammer's minutes due to fatigue/being overworked.

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