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Gomez trade in the works? LEGIT SOURCES ONLY (Part II)

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06-30-2011, 11:53 AM
  #226
znk
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Originally Posted by Pierre Jr View Post
Even though Cammy claims that the Gomez deal had nothing to do with him signing in MTL, it's only reasonable to believe that he probably wouldn't have signed if Gomez wasn't already there. Any big time scorer needs to know he has a great set-up guy, and hate him or not, Gomez was known as that 2 years ago. Gomez has become an albatross, don't get me wrong, but getting him created a new idea about Montreal, that it was a place where star players with winning pedigrees went. It has been an epic fail thus far, but no one can deny that Montreal has become more of a UFA destination since we got him.

So You can say that Gainey messed up badly, and i still think the trade was a mistake--but i think he knew that he had to try to bring in a big name (at the time) to make Montreal a more attractive for a potential ufa's. Cammy and Gionta were probably our most high profile UFA pickups ever (Kovalev?) and don't think they would have signed here without Gomez. Regardless of how much money we had that year, i think we would have got players more in the realm of Sergei Samsonov (crappy and overpaid) and we would be in a world of trouble right now. I think my point is this: The Montreal Canadiens organization was in a world of hurt going into the 09-10' season, and if they had gone back with the team they had (Koivu, Ryder,Higgins, Komisarek etc.,) I truly believe we would have sucked, and not saved that much money. The Gomez trade wasn't a good deal, but it's a better alternative then if we had stayed status quo.
Please stop using this speculation as an argument. The consensus was that we overpaid both Cams and Gionta by $1M each. This is really frustrating because it's impossible to argue against speculation. "They would not be here if wasnt for Gomez" maybe Koivu would have been enough, maybe an other UFA or maybe an other center acquired would have been enough or maybe Plekanec would have been enough. All you guys are doing is using this excuse to void facing the fact that we got fleeced in that Gomez trade and the he been nothing but disappointing since. For the love of god stop hiding from reality behind fake arguments.

It's mind numbing to see people still defending Gomez today.

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06-30-2011, 11:53 AM
  #227
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Useful? He's useful at handcuffing the team and preventing it from actually getting a #1 center.
The Habs could make a legitimate offer for Brad Richards tomorrow. They won't and I don't think Richards would want to play here, but they could with their cap space.

Gomez is a lot of things, most of them bad in comparison to the dollars he's paid, but he isn't preventing this team from getting a #1 center. That has more to do with how hard it is to pry them away from other teams.

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06-30-2011, 11:54 AM
  #228
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Useful? He's useful at handcuffing the team and preventing it from actually getting a #1 center.
im sick of this ********

where you gonna get that #1 center? from the center tree right outside?

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06-30-2011, 11:56 AM
  #229
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Without that trade, I'm not sure Cammalleri and Gionta would've accepted playing with Plekanec and Lapierre as the top 2 centers.
And again, speculation for speculation...what if Koivu stays? Not enough for both guys? Gionta scored so many goals with Gomez....wouldn't that still be an indication to Gionta that even if he did that a couple of years ago, the fact that Sather had no need for him, had to mean that they wouldn't do it again?

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06-30-2011, 11:56 AM
  #230
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Useful? He's useful at handcuffing the team and preventing it from actually getting a #1 center.
Yes, this team is so handcuffed, we have 14M in cap space with 4 players to sign, and people have even been arguing that we should have signed Wiz if only because we have so much cap space anyway, and no other players to spend it on.

Damn Gomez and his way too long three years, handcuffing, lineup-breaking contract.

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06-30-2011, 12:01 PM
  #231
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im sick of this ********

where you gonna get that #1 center? from the center tree right outside?
Good point. Yet, with all the quality d-men we have/had, and let say a guy like McDo prooves his worth last year the way he did with the Rangers....how about having him in a deal, in a package for a centerman? Maybe that centerman would have been a prospect but great nonetheless, the type of prospect we might have waited 1 year to see him flourish but then if it means having a fine centerman for the following 10 years, what's the cost really? You don't ship a promising d-man like McDo for what we received. Was not to be done then, still is a mistake now....will be even more a mistake as we see McDo improves.

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06-30-2011, 12:01 PM
  #232
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Originally Posted by MasterDecoy View Post
im sick of this ********

where you gonna get that #1 center? from the center tree right outside?
Instead of targeting Gomez why not try for a less risky player? If you really want to trade for a top C and you are ready to offer one of your top prospects why not go all out and actually get an impact C? Keep Koivu? It's not like he's light hears bellow Gomez ya know. And use the extra $4M to improve the team. There are tons of way things could have went and it dosent have to all happen in one season. We basically gave a top prospect a roster player and an other prospect to help a team get rid of a cap burden. There is no way it should have cost that much. We'd probably have to offer all this with Gomez just to move him.

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06-30-2011, 12:03 PM
  #233
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Anyway I'm done with this. Gomez could spend the next season scoring 1 goal game in our net and there'd still be many to defend him and how misunderstood the situation is.

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06-30-2011, 12:05 PM
  #234
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Good point. Yet, with all the quality d-men we have/had, and let say a guy like McDo prooves his worth last year the way he did with the Rangers....how about having him in a deal, in a package for a centerman? Maybe that centerman would have been a prospect but great nonetheless, the type of prospect we might have waited 1 year to see him flourish but then if it means having a fine centerman for the following 10 years, what's the cost really? You don't ship a promising d-man like McDo for what we received. Was not to be done then, still is a mistake now....will be even more a mistake as we see McDo improves.
I'm not exactly sure what kind of player you would expect to fetch for McDo. Certainly not a blue chip offensive center.

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06-30-2011, 12:07 PM
  #235
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
And again, speculation for speculation...what if Koivu stays? Not enough for both guys? Gionta scored so many goals with Gomez....wouldn't that still be an indication to Gionta that even if he did that a couple of years ago, the fact that Sather had no need for him, had to mean that they wouldn't do it again?
It's not speculation...Both Cammalleri and Gionta admitted that Gomez's trade was part of their decision. But people can't accept it, Gomez trade hasn't always been negative to this team.

Koivu wasn't in the plans anymore. Even if we didn't make any trade to get another center, Koivu wasn't part of the equation anymore. The re-build of the core was pretty much initiated by the idea that Koivu's tenure with the habs brought no results. Signing Koivu again, would've been redudant and a dumb move by Gainey.

And your reasoning has flawed logic. You and others talking as if the signing of Gomez with NY is the reason why Gionta's signing with us had nothing to do with Gomez.

Isn't that speculation?

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06-30-2011, 12:07 PM
  #236
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Originally Posted by Goldthorpe View Post
I'm not exactly sure what kind of player you would expect to fetch for McDo. Certainly not a blue chip offensive center.
See...no effort. You can make a decent package if you try no?

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06-30-2011, 12:07 PM
  #237
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Originally Posted by Goldthorpe View Post
I'm not exactly sure what kind of player you would expect to fetch for McDo. Certainly not a blue chip offensive center.
That ain't what we got from him either, and yet we're spending 7mil per year for Gomer. Your point kinda backfired there didn't it.

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06-30-2011, 12:11 PM
  #238
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That ain't what we got from him either, and yet we're spending 7mil per year for Gomer. Your point kinda backfired there didn't it.
No, 'cause we didn't trade today's McDo, we traded a prospect we were starting to have doubt about back then. And a bluechip prospect isn't the same thing as an established and overpaid veteran...

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06-30-2011, 12:13 PM
  #239
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Anyway I'm done with this. Gomez could spend the next season scoring 1 goal game in our net and there'd still be many to defend him and how misunderstood the situation is.
wrong. no one, not even mathman would defend him then

use your head. he just had a career low season. logic says he doesn't repeat it. and if he does suck again, then eller or dd will be ready to take his place. the worst thing the habs can do right now is trade him for scraps without having a suitable replacement ready.

and guess what? players are more than just their stats.

but "38 points lololo he sucks" is so much simplier to think about

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06-30-2011, 12:13 PM
  #240
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Originally Posted by Goldthorpe View Post
No, 'cause we didn't trade today's McDo, we traded a prospect we were starting to have doubt about back then. And a bluechip prospect isn't the same thing as an established and overpaid veteran...
Who, what, when?

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06-30-2011, 12:16 PM
  #241
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Shouldn't we be obsess with point totals of our top 6 players?
No, and especially not without acknowledging the mechanics of point production, what a player can and cannot control, and what might cause a player to suddenly have an up or down season without any particular changes in his level of play. And acknowledging the difference between PP and 5-on-5 is also helpful.

Points are important, especially even-strength points. But the key thing that makes a top-6 forward a top-6 forward is the ability to play tough minutes effectively, and NOT points.

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06-30-2011, 12:16 PM
  #242
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See...no effort. You can make a decent package if you try no?
Just bang your head against a wall, its less painful than trying to show the Gainey fanbclub the mistakes he made.

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06-30-2011, 12:17 PM
  #243
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See...no effort. You can make a decent package if you try no?
I can also make a decent package out of Weber for a top player. What would be the point? Fantasy packages on a forum have never made any trade happen. McDo (and Weber) are valuable, but certainly not valuable enough to be the centerpiece in a trade for a bluechip offensive center.

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06-30-2011, 12:18 PM
  #244
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wrong. no one, not even mathman would defend him then

use your head. he just had a career low season. logic says he doesn't repeat it. and if he does suck again, then eller or dd will be ready to take his place. the worst thing the habs can do right now is trade him for scraps without having a suitable replacement ready.

and guess what? players are more than just their stats.

but "38 points lololo he sucks" is so much simplier to think about
I strongly disagree. If the opportunity arises that you can move that contract you do. It just gives you the flexibility to fully commit to find an alternative. I am ready to make moves over many seasons. There seems to be a fixation on to making all the moves during a 1 month period. But sadly we lost a decent bargaining chip to acquire him in the first place.

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06-30-2011, 12:21 PM
  #245
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Good point. Yet, with all the quality d-men we have/had, and let say a guy like McDo prooves his worth last year the way he did with the Rangers....how about having him in a deal, in a package for a centerman? Maybe that centerman would have been a prospect but great nonetheless, the type of prospect we might have waited 1 year to see him flourish but then if it means having a fine centerman for the following 10 years, what's the cost really? You don't ship a promising d-man like McDo for what we received. Was not to be done then, still is a mistake now....will be even more a mistake as we see McDo improves.
what's the point of *****ing about something that is done? we needed centermen right there and then, not in a few years. we got one. unless mcdo can play center, what's the point?

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06-30-2011, 12:21 PM
  #246
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Who, what, when?
There was a lot of hype around him when he was drafted, but as a prospect, McDonagh was kind of stalling in college. He was drafted as a two-way D, but his offensive game never actually developed, and he started being overshadowed by Subban and Weber who were of the same draft class, and who turned pro sooner.

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06-30-2011, 12:26 PM
  #247
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If the opportunity arises that you can move that contract you do. It just gives you the flexibility to fully commit to find an alternative.
youre living in lalaland. where's this alternative? "If the opportunity arises that you can move that contract you do"? unless that return fills the hole you are creating in your lineup, ok. otherwise you'd be stupid to. and centermen, especially #1 centermen, are prized possessions... you need to give a lot to get one, and we did.

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06-30-2011, 12:34 PM
  #248
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wrong. no one, not even mathman would defend him then

use your head. he just had a career low season. logic says he doesn't repeat it. and if he does suck again, then eller or dd will be ready to take his place. the worst thing the habs can do right now is trade him for scraps without having a suitable replacement ready.

and guess what? players are more than just their stats.

but "38 points lololo he sucks" is so much simplier to think about
No, it's improbable that Gomez will repeat his career low, but certainly not impossible.

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06-30-2011, 12:39 PM
  #249
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Lots of talk for no real reason IMO.. the debate has been done many times. Yes he's overpaid. Yes, he is going to play next season... deal with it.

Unless PG finds a taker for Gomez AND signs Richards, there's nowhere for #11 to leave this team IMO. So basically, impossible. There are no other options for our #1 C.

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06-30-2011, 12:40 PM
  #250
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Originally Posted by Blame it on PK View Post
No, it's improbable that Gomez will repeat his career low, but certainly not impossible.
...

that was my point

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