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Why was Saku Koivu let go?

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Old
06-30-2011, 05:04 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by McSorleyStick View Post
Because he didnt show up every night

And to change the core of the team
Well I'm glad they replaced him with someone who does show up every night both on and off the score sheet, right?

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06-30-2011, 05:05 PM
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If this current group doesn't stick with the Habs (Gomez, Gionta, Cammalleri) in 2-3 years, do you guys see Habs bringing Saku back as a 3rd line center for a last season for him to finish his career here? I'd certainly be happy.

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06-30-2011, 05:08 PM
  #28
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I still think it was a bad decision from BG, if Saku really wanted to stay.
I don't buy the Cammy and Gio wouldn't have come if not for Gomez theory. Fact is that with Saku instead of Gomez, we wouldn't be a worse team, but we would still own McD's rights and a substantial amount of cap space.
Imagine a D with Markov, Gorges and Gill, and a 3M$ trio of Subban, McD and Weber...That would be a way cheaper team.

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06-30-2011, 05:08 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Metalcommand View Post
Well, basically that's it. I didn't follow the NHL at all back then. He had 50 points in 65 games prior to leaving which is quite good.Were there some specific reasons (locker room, his play etc.) or did the Canadiens just want to take a new direction like Philly did this off-season?

What was the general sentiment in Montreal with the fans when he left? Good, bad? Perhaps share your feelings?

Thanks for the answers in advance!
Put simply, he was paid a high salary to be a 2nd line center, almost always had under 20 goals a season. His contract was up and he'd have to have renegotiated a raise, and the organization decided to go another way.

Another possible reason is that, they wanted to go after a big name center to attract some superstar wingers (like Cammalieri and Gionta), but you couldn't have Koivu, Plekanec (who was clearly better) and Gomez..... that'd make Koivu a VERY expensive third liner.

Another reason, perhaps lost to most people, is that he had been captain of the team for 1 season less than Henri Richard. I suspect (and maybe i'm wrong here), that management felt that Koivu was not "great enough" to have earned breaking that record.

That may have played some part in the decision to let him go.

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06-30-2011, 05:10 PM
  #30
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Team was imploding. Was a leader by example but seemed to have problems dealing with young cocky players. It seems his relationship with his teammates were either really great or really cold. The team was going nowhere and like it often happens with a coach, it looked like there was nothing he could do to make things better.

He was playing with passion but his passion was not contagious to his linemates. He had not so much starpower. People felt the respect he gained for battling cancer was not enough anymore to keep him in a leading role. Him and the canadiens were like an old couple living in the drift of time, thing is the rest of the family (the fans) were not ok with that.

They had to part ways.

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06-30-2011, 05:13 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Chfan View Post
If this current group doesn't stick with the Habs (Gomez, Gionta, Cammalleri) in 2-3 years, do you guys see Habs bringing Saku back as a 3rd line center for a last season for him to finish his career here? I'd certainly be happy.
As much as I would love for this to happen, I don't think it will. Both sides have moved on, he had his welcome back game. Only time I think he'll return is after his career is over and they do some special night for him.

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Originally Posted by mabus View Post
Another reason, perhaps lost to most people, is that he had been captain of the team for 1 season less than Henri Richard. I suspect (and maybe i'm wrong here), that management felt that Koivu was not "great enough" to have earned breaking that record.

That may have played some part in the decision to let him go.
That was 100% coincidence. There's no way this factored into why he was not resigned.

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06-30-2011, 05:13 PM
  #32
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Back then? I don't know what to say.
Well, couldn't come with a better way to say it I only checked the text-tv to see how Finns did now and then. Didn't have any clue what UFA's, Divisions etc. even were

Good answers guys thanks for the effort has been a pleasure reading them.

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06-30-2011, 05:14 PM
  #33
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Put simply, he was paid a high salary to be a 2nd line center, almost always had under 20 goals a season. His contract was up and he'd have to have renegotiated a raise, and the organization decided to go another way.

Another possible reason is that, they wanted to go after a big name center to attract some superstar wingers (like Cammalieri and Gionta), but you couldn't have Koivu, Plekanec (who was clearly better) and Gomez..... that'd make Koivu a VERY expensive third liner.

Another reason, perhaps lost to most people, is that he had been captain of the team for 1 season less than Henri Richard. I suspect (and maybe i'm wrong here), that management felt that Koivu was not "great enough" to have earned breaking that record.

That may have played some part in the decision to let him go.
I could be wrong also, but I thought it was Beliveau's Captaincy length?

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06-30-2011, 05:15 PM
  #34
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It just seems when he was a captain there were so much drama going off the ice, and players doing whatever they wanted and nobody being held accountable. Maybe Gionta is better surrounded, but the team seems to be behaving much more professionally then I can remember in nearly 2 decades.

That being said, Koivu the player was always, always doing his best on the ice.

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06-30-2011, 05:21 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by alexstream View Post
change of leadership was required.

nothing against Koivu personally... but maybe he was a magnet for troubles or I dunno. Things happened when he was there that wouldn't happen anywhere else.

-The kost brothers fiasco
-fights between players (ribeiro and koivu fight being only one of many)
-players leaving like Rivet and Souray and saying they are glad to be away
-Can't have two good seasons in a row as a team
-Theodore fiasco
-Higgins, Ryder and other "would be leaders" becoming total flops.

If you were to ask for my personal deep opinion : I think he cared extremely on the ice, but didn't care at all of the ice and didn't do what a captain should do.
e.g. call Selanne to convince him to come here (like Sakic used to do with UFAs)
e.g. tell the kids to keep it low and show them the way.
etc.
Eh.. Find others reason than that because those have nothing to do with it.

What does the Kostitsyn "fiasco" has anything to do with Saku. The whole story is a complete joke build up by the stupid media. The people that lost the most credibility in that story is not Saku, the Kostitsyns, the organization but the ****ing media. Also, it's not only the bros that were involved, Hammer was also involved but nobody is talking about him..

Fight between players? Where were you when Subban and Plekanec had their altercation? Cammy vs Lappy? These things happen in every teams and again, it's always blown out of proportion in Montreal.

It's funny that you mentioned Rivet and Souray who are two good friends of Saku.


Why don't you mention all the players that left and have good words for Saku from guys like Begin to Grabovski?

There's a reason why Saku Koivu is the captain of the Finland team.

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06-30-2011, 05:23 PM
  #36
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In a nutshell, there was NO WAY in hell that the powers that be were going to allow non French speaking, non Cup winning, Finnish born player to break JEAN BELIVEAU's record for longest tenured captain.

Any other reasons were are simply smoke and mirrors.

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06-30-2011, 05:26 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Padrino86 View Post
It just seems when he was a captain there were so much drama going off the ice, and players doing whatever they wanted and nobody being held accountable. Maybe Gionta is better surrounded, but the team seems to be behaving much more professionally then I can remember in nearly 2 decades.

That being said, Koivu the player was always, always doing his best on the ice.
This I think is the cause of the complete media lock-down that the current organization operates under. They were moving in that direction anyway under Gainey but I think they reached a tipping point around the "darkest day in Habs history" media cluster**** and decided to no longer fed the beast. If people don't like how Gauthier doesn't fill them in on what's going on I think this is why.

Imagine the media storm if they came out and said they were pursuing Jagr like many outside reports say.

Gionta, Gill and Markov as the captain and alternate captains seems like a much more professional leadership group than previous. Koivu was always professional but Kovalev and Higgins weren't.

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06-30-2011, 05:26 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by HeShootsHeScores View Post
Team was imploding. Was a leader by example but seemed to have problems dealing with young cocky players. It seems his relationship with his teammates were either really great or really cold. The team was going nowhere and like it often happens with a coach, it looked like there was nothing he could do to make things better.
This post reflects the media view, but not the actual reasons for the 08-09 collapse.

In 07-08, when the Habs were 1st place in the eastern conference, the team was extraordinarily lucky, health-wise. This created unreasonable expectations for the next season.

In 08-09, Tanguay missed the second half of the season with a shoulder injury. Lang severed his achilles tendon and missed the second half and the playoffs. Markov missed the playoffs, after an injury in the last game of the season.

Of course, the team lost more than they won after these injuries. The media then went wild with the "room falling apart" narrative that they always go to during losing streaks - this time it was even more extreme - "the darkest day in Canadiens history."

Apparently fans still cling to that media narrative, even though the only one of the hyperbolic rumors that ever appeared to have any truth, was that the Kostitsyns and Hamrlik were friends with a gangster.

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06-30-2011, 05:27 PM
  #39
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Don't think there's a legit one, especially considering the panic move that followed.

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06-30-2011, 05:32 PM
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Panic move.

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Old
06-30-2011, 05:39 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
This post reflects the media view, but not the actual reasons for the 08-09 collapse.

In 07-08, when the Habs were 1st place in the eastern conference, the team was extraordinarily lucky, health-wise. This created unreasonable expectations for the next season.

In 08-09, Tanguay missed the second half of the season with a shoulder injury. Lang severed his achilles tendon and missed the second half and the playoffs. Markov missed the playoffs, after an injury in the last game of the season.

Of course, the team lost more than they won after these injuries. The media then went wild with the "room falling apart" narrative that they always go to during losing streaks - this time it was even more extreme - "the darkest day in Canadiens history."

Apparently fans still cling to that media narrative, even though the only one of the hyperbolic rumors that ever appeared to have any truth, was that the Kostitsyns and Hamrlik were friends with a gangster.
Also Plekanec and Kostitsyn carried the 1st place team on even strength, both of them having a down year from 41 and 37 ES points to 24 and 26 hurt a bunch on a team that wasn't good 5 on 5 to begin with. Fortunately both have rebound. The main reason Kostisyn doesn't get to 55 points like he did his career year now is that he isn't as important to the power play as he was that season.

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06-30-2011, 05:47 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
Also Plekanec and Kostitsyn carried the 1st place team on even strength, both of them having a down year from 41 and 37 ES points to 24 and 26 hurt a bunch on a team that wasn't good 5 on 5 to begin with. Fortunately both have rebound. The main reason Kostisyn doesn't get to 55 points like he did his career year now is that he isn't as important to the power play as he was that season.
Plekanec, Kovalev and Kostitsyn all had crazy shooting percentages in 07-08. It was a crazy, magical year where all kinds of unsustainable things happened. It raised expectations to the point that 08-09 was guaranteed to be seen as a disaster, when the team came crashing back to earth.

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06-30-2011, 05:51 PM
  #43
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Didn't like it all when it happened, but essentially Gainey wanted to shake things up and letting the leader go was the first step. Gainey made some comments after Koivu left to the effect that for whatever reason Koivu was never able to "meet with" as talented players. But Gomez was hardly an upgrade (and that was already clear from his NY numbers). As others suggested, perhaps they felt Koivu should not be as tenured as Richard, who knows...

I would not attribute omniscient powers to Gainey like some who suggest it was Koivu v. Plekanec. It was far from it, the Habs had finalized trading Plekanec, Price, Subban for Lecavalier before one of Tampa's owners killed it. Rather it was that the team thought they needed a "true no. 1" centre and eventually they went to plan B in Gomez. Amusingly, the number one centre was already there (and thankfully so) in Plekanec and management didn't know what they had.

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06-30-2011, 05:59 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
Plekanec, Kovalev and Kostitsyn all had crazy shooting percentages in 07-08. It was a crazy, magical year where all kinds of unsustainable things happened. It raised expectations to the point that 08-09 was guaranteed to be seen as a disaster, when the team came crashing back to earth.
The shooting percentage run was mainly on the powerplay which is why Kovalev got such high numbers. Historically on even strength Plekanec will get ~40 points (45 on his best year) while Kostitsyn gets 33-37. Both cratered into the 20's during the disaster year and have since rebounded.

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06-30-2011, 06:14 PM
  #45
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Rofl @ Koivu taking nights off.

That must be a bad joke or something. The guy gave everything to this team and city, you're a disgrace to the CH for saying those words.

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06-30-2011, 06:22 PM
  #46
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Why?

Because Bob Gainey wanted to laugh at the next GM's problems, as well as the fans reactions.

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06-30-2011, 06:24 PM
  #47
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Why?

Because Bob Gainey wanted to laugh at the next GM's problems, as well as the fans reactions.
When he went UFA after one season and the dust had settled we should have re-signed him. He would have fit into our top 6 better than Halpern would, and I don't care where. Wing, center, whatever.

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06-30-2011, 06:24 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
The shooting percentage run was mainly on the powerplay which is why Kovalev got such high numbers. Historically on even strength Plekanec will get ~40 points (45 on his best year) while Kostitsyn gets 33-37. Both cratered into the 20's during the disaster year and have since rebounded.
Yup, this makes sense.

Point being, lots of freaky good things happened in 07-08, lots of freaky bad things happened in 08-09. All of them were tangible, on-ice things. Intangible, captaincy related stuff did not sink the 08-09 season.

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06-30-2011, 06:24 PM
  #49
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Gomez or Koivu + McDonagh hmmm....

This is the reason why Gainey is no longer our GM.

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06-30-2011, 06:27 PM
  #50
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Gomez or Koivu + McDonagh hmmm....

This is the reason why Gainey is no longer our GM.
That and he quit. More because of the latter though.

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