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Old
06-30-2011, 12:36 PM
  #76
RainbowDash
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Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
Just a little more right there. Sort of provides an interesting backlight to the Wings situation. Kind of the Bertuzzi thing, Babcock wants a little more speed. It's funny also because they do have Abdelkader and Helm.

The other thing where that applies is the Sharks. Do they downplay C&C hockey a little because of speed issues? Go to a thing where they try to get clean entries with specific danglers and have the dmen go with d to d endlessly until they open an entry point. I don't think the Sharks are well suited to the alternative to C&C, but I could see them tweaking the entry/possession strategy if they strikeout in FA.
Well, to better help you guys out. C&C is only truly effective against hyper agressive defensive refusing to give the blueline entry to the oncoming rush. Vancouver this past year, and Chicago the year before. However, Vancouver should have been burned by it WAY more often then it did. They got away with blatant inference on very good chip ins that would result in some very dangerous scoring chances.

C&C is a good strategy against that system, but you need to make the interference look more visible. Not diving, but make it look more obvious that you are being held up. Getting a decent soft chip in and an extra step on the defender would get excellent scoring chances or establish a good basis on the forecheck/cycle game if done right.

The Sharks NEED to implement that system, but they lack confidence that they can run it. But they need to do it because they are terrible on defending the rush.

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06-30-2011, 12:39 PM
  #77
SpinTheBlackCircle
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Rumor is White's rights have been dealt

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06-30-2011, 12:43 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by SpinTheBlackCircle View Post
Rumor is White's rights have been dealt
Unhappy face

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06-30-2011, 12:43 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by SpinTheBlackCircle View Post
Rumor is White's rights have been dealt
Would make sense since that is UFA defensemen rights are so hot right now.

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06-30-2011, 12:58 PM
  #80
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Unhappy face
E4...

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06-30-2011, 01:11 PM
  #81
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Maybe, DW has a lowball offer on the table. Maybe that has caused the confusion.

White will see what he can get on the open market starting tomorrow. If no one comes up with a better offer, he can accept the Shark's offer. If he finds some one to pay him big money, he is gone.

If so, good move by DW... we get him cheap or another team gets a more expensive White.

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06-30-2011, 01:15 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chief Brody View Post
Maybe, DW has a lowball offer on the table. Maybe that has caused the confusion.

White will see what he can get on the open market starting tomorrow. If no one comes up with a better offer, he can accept the Shark's offer. If he finds some one to pay him big money, he is gone.

If so, good move by DW... we get him cheap or another team gets a more expensive White.
You're probably right. Of course, he will certainly get more elsewhere. Defense isn't as critical anymore to the Sharks as it was a week ago. I'd love to get White signed, but the price is a key point.

The thinness of the FA defensemen this offseason suggests he's going to sign a long term deal that pays him huge dividends.

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Old
06-30-2011, 01:23 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by BrianSmith View Post
.... you do realize that family was one of many reasons why I think he will not sign here?

Regarding the bold, what does that have to do with Ian White? Guy won't be commuting for 2-4 hours a day... I'm not seeing what your point was? If it is to say that money isn't the end all be all I agree, but in White's case I'm making the point that it is in his best interest to take the money - or close to fair market value.

Also, I really think your previous comment had a bit of hyperbole in it - which is fine, we all do it. But I wanted to point out that at this point in his life Ian White hasn't even made what Sprewel made in that "one year."
As to sprewell.... You think only hockey players have taxes and union fees and war chest funds, etc, etc. Sprewells salary was 7 mil a year, he certainly didn't take home anything close to that. And, Sprewell's comment was dripping with hyperbole to begin with. There's no reason that a professional athlete can't support their family for life making 1 million dollars a year. The difference between 1 million and 7 million is nothing more than extravagance, not "supporting their family", IMO.

Regarding the rest. Yes, I understand that you think he must take the money because he has a family. My point is that money is not the be all end all, and I disagree with your assertion that family will be the driving force behind him leaving.

He'll leave, but not necessarily because that's what's "best for his family". As I said, I agree with your conclusion - he's leaving. I just disagree with the reasoning. I think pressure from the union and PA is a far greater impetus for taking the money than "what's best for his family".

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06-30-2011, 01:30 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpinTheBlackCircle View Post
Rumor is White's rights have been dealt
If so I think that's worth it, even if it's a 7th rounder. He's as good as gone anyway...

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06-30-2011, 01:32 PM
  #85
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i was really hoping we resigned white, even with burns on board. i hope its not true.

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06-30-2011, 01:41 PM
  #86
SpinTheBlackCircle
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White will get $4.5-$5.5 a year for 4 years from someone, just a guess.

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06-30-2011, 01:45 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpinTheBlackCircle View Post
White will get $4.5-$5.5 a year for 4 years from someone, just a guess.
Overpaid but he deserves it. Hopefully, not Hawks or Wings.

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Old
06-30-2011, 01:48 PM
  #88
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Well, to better help you guys out. C&C is only truly effective against hyper agressive defensive refusing to give the blueline entry to the oncoming rush. Vancouver this past year, and Chicago the year before. However, Vancouver should have been burned by it WAY more often then it did. They got away with blatant inference on very good chip ins that would result in some very dangerous scoring chances.

C&C is a good strategy against that system, but you need to make the interference look more visible. Not diving, but make it look more obvious that you are being held up. Getting a decent soft chip in and an extra step on the defender would get excellent scoring chances or establish a good basis on the forecheck/cycle game if done right.

The Sharks NEED to implement that system, but they lack confidence that they can run it. But they need to do it because they are terrible on defending the rush.
They were using C&C for the better part of the year. The faster the players, the less accurate the chips need to be. And it is always contested at the point where the chips are made so it isn't like it is a free shot on the chip with a good chance for pinpoint accuracy. I agree that is designed to defeat aggressive defense, but it has its limits. It is almost impossible to get the zone entry int call. I saw what the Nucks did and it was way beyond the point of being nebulous and it would have been easy to call (defenders going full strides out of lanes for hits).

They were having a hard time on the rush because they were using defenders to close the walls and putting a lot of emphasis on cycle play to prevent the other team from even getting rushes. Once the other team broke out, the Sharks D had to back off as they would be starting from 3 forwards low in the offensive zone. They also seemed to avoid the 1 man forecheck even when they weren't coming off the cycle. That provides the other teams pretty strong entries. Detroit was particularly deadly when they started stretching the Sharks.

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06-30-2011, 01:53 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpinTheBlackCircle View Post
Rumor is White's rights have been dealt
Wild guess...NYI for a 6th rndr.

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06-30-2011, 01:55 PM
  #90
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I hope he doesn't go to the Red Wings. If Ehrhoff signs with Buffalo, and Wisniewski signs with Columbus, I wouldn't be surprised.

I like White, but I really don't see a spot on him for the team anymore. The Sharks need to keep cap space for next year too.

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06-30-2011, 02:39 PM
  #91
RainbowDash
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
They were using C&C for the better part of the year. The faster the players, the less accurate the chips need to be. And it is always contested at the point where the chips are made so it isn't like it is a free shot on the chip with a good chance for pinpoint accuracy. I agree that is designed to defeat aggressive defense, but it has its limits. It is almost impossible to get the zone entry int call. I saw what the Nucks did and it was way beyond the point of being nebulous and it would have been easy to call (defenders going full strides out of lanes for hits).

They were having a hard time on the rush because they were using defenders to close the walls and putting a lot of emphasis on cycle play to prevent the other team from even getting rushes. Once the other team broke out, the Sharks D had to back off as they would be starting from 3 forwards low in the offensive zone. They also seemed to avoid the 1 man forecheck even when they weren't coming off the cycle. That provides the other teams pretty strong entries. Detroit was particularly deadly when they started stretching the Sharks.
The 3 forwards down low has more to say about how awful they are at taking away the best passing options on their outlet and how awful they are at times reducing the mobility and time of the defenders. They poorly observe and identify the actual puck support and instead opt to seal off boards at places they'd never be able to feed it to on their backhand.

Its very frustrating to watch. Its like watching a WWI plane shoot their propeller blades off with their own machine gun.

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06-30-2011, 02:44 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by rangerssharks414 View Post
I like White, but I really don't see a spot on him for the team anymore. The Sharks need to keep cap space for next year too.
If White was signed, even at a discount, it would be at the expensive of a top-6 forward, so it's not just using up cap space, it's displacing a forward. We'll still be in the same position if we sign a top-6 forward to a multi year deal; having some cap space from Niitty and Mitchell (Assuming they can find a cheaper replacement for both) and really hoping for a healthy Cap increase. Otherwise, we'd have to move someone (Vlassic or the newly signed UFA would be my first guess).

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06-30-2011, 04:52 PM
  #93
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I was hoping that White would resign for ~$2.5M even with us getting Burns.

I do wish him luck where ever he ends up!

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06-30-2011, 05:31 PM
  #94
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wow wisniewski is now the single best UFA on this market, and most every contender has huge dmen needs. at this point i wish we resigned white for cheap when we had the chance haha.

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06-30-2011, 05:39 PM
  #95
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wow wisniewski is now the single best UFA on this market, and most every contender has huge dmen needs. at this point i wish we resigned white for cheap when we had the chance haha.
I don't think the Sharks ever had a chance to re-sign him for "cheap". I think White could get $3.5M on the open market. He wasn't going to get that from the Sharks. If they did offer him that earlier, DW probably wouldn't have traded for Burns.

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06-30-2011, 05:52 PM
  #96
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White isnt worth 3.5 IMO so if he gets anywhere near that from some other team, Im happy hes gone.

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06-30-2011, 05:54 PM
  #97
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I'll call it now - Nucks or Wings sign White. If it's the Nucks, that'll be tough b/c I like White but hate them.

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Old
06-30-2011, 05:55 PM
  #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by endy View Post
wow wisniewski is now the single best UFA on this market, and most every contender has huge dmen needs. at this point i wish we resigned white for cheap when we had the chance haha.
actually, the Wiz might have already re-signed.

although i dont think White will stay here, i havent seen any rumor/confirmation that we traded his rights.

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06-30-2011, 08:00 PM
  #99
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Wisniewski, Kaberle, White, mcCabe, Jovo, Hamrlik, Ericson, Hejda, Salo.How many teams bidding? How many want two?

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06-30-2011, 08:29 PM
  #100
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I wouldn't be scared if White signed with Van, Chi, or Det

He would have been third pairing here and he certainly isn't bulletproof

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